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17:14:18  <caitp>Is anyone around who can answer some questions about the static class features proposal, WRT https://github.com/tc39/proposal-static-class-features/issues/38 ?
17:17:07  <caitp>I'm assuming static fields are evaluated within the class lexical environment, and don't need any extra bindings like `this`, thus it doesn't need to be implemented as a method, right?
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18:41:35  <ljharb>caitp: i'm reasonable sure `class { static singleton = new this(); }` needs to work, if that's what you mean?
18:43:04  <caitp>I don't think it should work, when `class C { static singleton = new C(); }` would work and do what is expected
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18:43:24  <caitp>makes a lot more sense than rebinding `this`
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18:48:54  <ljharb>the class fields proposal explicitly intended that to work
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18:49:15  <ljharb>(that `this` directly inside the class body is either the instance or the class)
18:49:46  <caitp>where on earth is that stated? (that is a bad idea)
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18:53:21  <ljharb>why is it a bad idea??
18:57:01  <ljharb>caitp: https://github.com/tc39/proposal-class-public-fields/issues/50
18:58:56  <caitp>it's a bad idea because `this` changes meaning without crossing a function boundary
18:59:26  <ljharb>it adds "the class boundary" as a place where it can change, and matches many people's intuition
18:59:42  <ljharb>similarly, in an instance field, `foo = this`, `this` is the instance
18:59:55  <caitp>class boundary really should not be a thing
19:00:05  <ljharb>yet there's curly braces there :-p
19:00:21  <ljharb>it sounds like in general you don't like the idea of fields at all tho
19:00:35  <ljharb>the entire proposal is predicated on making "class boundary" a thing
19:01:03  <caitp>nothing against fields, but `singleton = new this();` isn't any better than `singleton = new ClassName()`
19:01:25  <caitp>which is arguably significantly easier to reason about
19:01:39  <caitp>and doesn't prohbit accessing stuff from the real `this`
19:03:16  <caitp>ClassName is in the lexical scope, has been since day 1, we should use that instead of doing some awkward stuff with `this`
19:03:36  <ljharb>it's better because you don't have to repeat the classname in code
19:03:45  <ljharb>and because not every class has a name at all
19:03:55  <ljharb>ie an anonymous class expression
19:04:09  <caitp>yeah so the solution there is to not use it in those cases innit
19:04:13  <ljharb>lol
19:04:20  <ljharb>that's one option
19:05:45  <caitp>I'd rather provide a new metaproperty for people who really want to do that
19:05:58  <ljharb>https://github.com/tc39/proposal-class-access-expressions
19:06:00  <caitp>call it Self
19:06:04  <caitp>make the rustaceans happy
19:06:14  <ljharb>either way tho, `this` needs to be the instance inside instance fields
19:06:24  <ljharb>so disallowing `this` in static fields doesn't seem very useful
19:07:09  <caitp>I don't think you would disallow it, just let it evaluate to the `this` that already exists
19:09:37  <ljharb>that'd be very confusing
19:09:49  <ljharb>because tons of people expect it to be the class itself
19:10:39  <caitp>I wouldn't expect it to be the class itself, I don't think I've ever written in any language where `this` refers to the class currently being defined
19:11:04  <caitp>does python do that? maybe python does
19:11:07  <caitp>but everybody hates python
19:11:55  <caitp>excluding the possible exceptions of python/ruby/perl, what else does?
19:16:06  <caitp>but anyways, regardless of all of that, where in the actual proposal does it say any of this?
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19:42:05  <FireFly>I would find overriding `this` with yet another meaning in another context to be confusing...
19:43:49  <FireFly>in function expressions you have to specify a name if you want to refer to the function itself (e.g. to call it recursively) -- I would expect the same to be the case with class expressions
19:44:43  <FireFly>How does `this` behave in static methods inside a class today?
19:46:07  <ljharb>FireFly: it's the class
19:46:12  <FireFly>Always?
19:46:14  <FireFly>hmm
19:47:20  <FireFly>alright, I guess it might make some sense (in that "usual rules" of method calls would make `this` be the class if you invoke it as Class.staticMethod())
19:47:57  <FireFly>But it still seems a bit of a pity to me to add another rule to remember about what value `this` resolves to..
19:52:02  <ljharb>caitp: i'm not sure where in the current proposal it says that tbh
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19:58:00  <caitp>"Define an own property on the constructor which is set to the value of the initializer expression. The initializer is evaluated in a scope where the binding of the class is available--unlike in computed property names, the class can be referred to from inside initializers without leading to a ReferenceError. The this value in the initializer is the constructor." << that is...
19:58:18  <caitp>so we can have scope swapping before and after every initializer is evaluated, for no reason
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20:00:32  <caitp>I really don't see this as being something worth having in the spec, from a user perspective -or- implementor perspective
20:01:09  <caitp>I will be ok with it if computed properties see the same `this` as initializers, but it's still nutso
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