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14:43:45  <annevk>littledan: so overloading of Number and BigInt is gonna be a thing after all?
14:44:11  <littledan>annevk: That was the conclusion for Intl.NumberFormat.prototype.format, yes
14:44:26  <annevk>littledan: was there a more general conclusion too?
14:44:27  <littledan>annevk: The committee declined to recommend anything for WebIDL, but I'd like us to eventually be able to migrate Intl to WebIDL
14:44:40  <littledan>however, I am also fine with prohibiting the overloading in WebIDL for now
14:44:56  <littledan>I explained to the committee that I'd like to bring alignment on these decisions
14:44:57  <annevk>littledan: if we're going to allow it folks are gonna overload
14:45:04  <littledan>:(
14:45:06  <annevk>littledan: e.g., in that Wasm decision
14:45:13  <annevk>s/decision/issue/
14:45:13  <littledan>wait that one is different
14:45:25  <annevk>Is it?
14:45:45  <annevk>https://github.com/WebAssembly/JS-BigInt-integration/issues/12
14:46:18  <littledan>that one clearly should not allow an overload; this is just like writing into a Uint64Array, which the committee decided should not be permitted. It's about Number values "being in range" so it's OK
14:46:41  <littledan>the distinction is a little subtle, I understand
14:46:51  <annevk>littledan: once it's in IDL that distinction will be lost
14:46:56  <littledan>but, that proposal is purely about "eh, both should work here" whereas the NumberFormat issue is a genuine overload
14:47:18  <littledan>well, how about we think about the NumberFormat.format thing as using an "any"-based overload, and don't let people do it in WebIDL?
14:47:26  <annevk>littledan: unless browsers have linting on it and informed reviewers
14:47:42  <annevk>littledan: I guess
14:47:53  <littledan>well, I can write more about this in the W3C TAG spec guidelines
14:47:59  <littledan>I'm not sure if people read that...
14:48:09  <annevk>Might still get copy-and-paste, but maybe
14:48:16  <littledan>it seems like it's typically down to you, Domenic , bz and a couple others to actually enforce conventions
14:48:20  <annevk>They should, but I also haven't read it recently to be fair
14:48:26  <annevk>uhuh
14:48:36  <annevk>That's why I'm skeptical 😃
14:48:42  <littledan>:(
14:48:45  <littledan>OK, I'll think about this more
14:49:21  <littledan>I don't think overloading Intl methods will keep working in the future. Domenic pointed out that, if Temporal is in a module, then it couldn't be purely lazy-loaded if we let it overload Intl.DateTimeFormat methods
14:49:47  <littledan>also, overloading on different platform objects gets kinda wonky if we move to same-realm brand checking
14:50:14  <littledan>one nice benefit of same-realm brand checking that Domenic pointed out is, current realm = relevant realm! We don't have to have that argument then.
14:52:24  <annevk>Interesting
14:53:00  <annevk>I'm a lil scared for same-realm brands, but I suppose it's not too different from what JavaScript has thus far, except for Array
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15:14:30  <Domenic>w3ctag design guidelines are sometimes-read, and somewhat-often cited by people
15:14:54  <Domenic>Although I guess the recent instance I am thinking about is bz citing them, so that's not so helpful. I guess it saves bz a bit of time.
15:15:23  <Domenic>annevk: JS has cross-realm brand checks
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15:16:18  <annevk>Domenic: hmm yeah, I guess it does mostly, so maybe I'm more concerned
15:16:37  <Domenic>It's just more restrictive, and aligned with what JS developers are able to create in their own files
15:17:03  <Domenic>Maybe I'm biased but I think the complexity of allowing cross-realm access at all is just a mistake of the web platform; everything should have been postMessage().
15:17:45  <Domenic>So little steps we can take to make the platform simpler seem nice, like same-realm brand checks and that proposal from dtapuska to allow sites to isolate themselves from cross-realm access even if same-origin. (I think that's what the proposal was.)
15:18:15  <annevk>I think a proposal that gives you an agent cluster per document has legs
15:18:30  <annevk>What dtapuska and mikewest proposed were not quite there
15:24:33  <Domenic>I guess I'm just focused on the simplification and not on the security boundary. Although probably we should couple them, so as not to have two things.
15:27:00  <annevk>It's also a potential parallelization boundary and without an agent cluster it might be much harder to parallelize due to shared memory
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