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18:24:57  <TabAtkins>`var √ = Math.sqrt;` being a syntax error makes JS literally unusable.
18:28:41  <devsnek>at-mathias time to extend the identifier syntax
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18:32:54  <ljharb>TabAtkins: we
18:33:09  <ljharb>TabAtkins: we've already tried to make Math.TAU a thing too :-/
18:34:23  <devsnek>what can i do to make Math.TAU a reality
18:35:24  <ljharb>it seemed like some delegates were too afraid of being first-movers on "actually making math awesome"
18:35:40  <ljharb>so getting it shipped as a constant in other languages would help :-p
18:37:02  <devsnek>lol
18:37:22  <ljharb>srsly tho, https://tauday.com/tau-manifesto
18:39:16  <michaelboegner>greetings TC39 members :) I have a proposal that I am looking to get shepherded in. I am fairly new to the process but have read through the proposal documentation. You can find my suggestion here: https://www.npmjs.com/package/dry-forloop
18:39:54  <michaelboegner>Thank you to anyone who can assist me with the process. This is super exciting!
18:41:31  <devsnek>michaelboegner: can you provide some more information on what this is trying to solve, etc
18:44:07  <michaelboegner>sure, so I see a couple use cases: 1. It provides a simple, easy to understand reduction of the traditional forLoop without anything other than what you would expect to find in said loop, i.e. no extra bells and whistles, it's still a forLoop, just as dry as possible
18:44:58  <devsnek>well the existing forEach is "just a for loop"
18:45:10  <devsnek>i'm confused about what adding all this extra stuff is doing
18:45:28  <michaelboegner>2. You could argue at this point, hey, but I've got forEach. That basically does the same thing, right? I would say, no, in that you cannot manipulate the start, operator, length and iterator traditionally found in a forLoop using a forEach. This means that you can do things like nesting and manipulation of iteration that forEach doesn't provide, I don't believe at least.
18:45:59  <michaelboegner>```array.forDry((e) => { array.forDry((f) => { solution.push(e + f) }, 1) }); console.log(solution); Expected return: [ 3, 4, 5, 6, 4, 5, 6, 7, 5, 6, 7, 8, 6, 7, 8, 9, 7, 8, 9, 10 ]```
18:46:19  <devsnek>right but what's the use case for manipulating all those things
18:47:06  <michaelboegner>The alternative is nesting two forLoops, which means writing a much wetter code
18:47:30  <michaelboegner>alternatively
18:47:38  <devsnek>i'm not sure what that code does
18:48:00  <devsnek>does it skip the first element?
18:48:36  <michaelboegner>it's equivalent to a nested forLoop with the iterating variable starting at 1
18:48:56  <devsnek>like `array.forEach((e) => array.slice(1).forEach((f) => { solutions.push(e + f); }))`
18:49:05  <michaelboegner>sorry, i thought i indluced the array
18:49:21  <devsnek>so those are equiv
18:49:28  <devsnek>but the one i posted seems much clearer
18:49:42  <jmdyck>michaelboegner: your proposal should maybe show a couple examples of what the equivalent code would be with current JS
18:49:57  <devsnek>well you should write up a proposal
18:50:10  <michaelboegner>so yeah, so the instructions just say to come here and talk to you
18:50:16  <michaelboegner>so that's what i'm doing
18:50:24  <michaelboegner>What should a proposal look like?
18:51:08  <michaelboegner>nevermind, i found one in github
18:51:10  <devsnek>at a minimum: what is the problem, why does the problem matter, some possible solutions to the problem
18:51:19  <michaelboegner>I appreciate everyone's time
18:51:31  <devsnek>yeah we're also working on making it easier for new people to get involved
18:52:47  <michaelboegner>cool, thanks again for taking a second to talk it out with me
18:53:30  <ljharb>michaelboegner: it'd help to document prior art - showing where this pattern is so common in JS or other languages that it warrants being in the language instead of in userland
18:54:09  <ljharb>michaelboegner: also to make a case for why this is cleaner than, say, using forEach and checking the index, or using flatMap and returning `[]`
18:54:44  <michaelboegner>awesome. Will do for sure
18:56:30  <ljharb>(also i hope your npm package doesn’t actually modify Array.prototype; that can be very dangerous and has interfered with other proposals in the past)
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20:32:40  <TabAtkins>Personally, these modifications to start/end belong in functions that return modified arrays themselves (or rather, iterators over the array). Traditional for-loops are terrible UX-wise in the first place, but they're so ubiquitous people learn how they work anyway; scattering the same functionality over a handful of arguments makes the readability much worse.
20:33:21  <TabAtkins>So like `array.forEach(e=>drop(1, array).forEach(f=>solution.push(e+f)))`
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21:13:10  <devsnek>TabAtkins: +1
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