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06:31:57  <Bakkot>littledan: I want to bring Object.freezePrototypeOf before the commitee for stage 1 this meeting, just to start the process off; did you have specific things you wanted to do there or are you ok with me championing it myself?
07:25:41  <devsnek>wouldn't that be a mop addition and make more sense for reflect?
07:50:50  <littledan>Go for it, that will be great
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08:35:32  <ljharb>devsnek: for consistency it should probably go on both Object and Reflect, no?
08:58:31  <devsnek>ljharb: i thought the stuff on object was just legacy
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09:04:02  <ljharb>we added gOPDs (that's not a proxy trap tho)
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14:40:52  <annevk>littledan: I'm not sure I understand https://github.com/heycam/webidl/pull/606#issuecomment-453116978
14:41:06  <littledan>what about it?
14:41:06  <annevk>littledan: are you saying there should be a check for cycles as Chrome/Safari do?
14:41:23  <annevk>littledan: or are you saying a chain should be allowed somehow?
14:41:46  <littledan>I'm suggesting the checks,
14:42:24  <annevk>littledan: and then as for specifying this, perhaps we can follow the [[IsHTMLDDA]] precedent?
14:42:40  <littledan>there's no strong precedent, TC39 takes these things case by case and there's lots of arguing
14:43:28  <littledan>What did you mean by "I guess this wasn't the correct fix after all then and I'm not really sure how to resolve the original issue."?
14:43:50  <annevk>littledan: that the PR against IDL wasn't correct
14:44:00  <littledan>oh, not correct in the sense that it doesn't reflect the web
14:44:05  <littledan>it still seems like a decent proposal to me
14:44:23  <littledan>if you want to reflect the web, then checking for cycles seems like a good strategy
14:44:25  <annevk>I guess, if implementers want to go that way
14:45:00  <littledan>we're talking about 5 lines of code; it just takes a Chrome-side champion
14:45:14  <annevk>Well, and a potential web compat hit
14:45:25  <littledan>yeah
14:45:49  <littledan>I don't have very strong intuitions here about the compat risk
14:46:27  <annevk>I don't really understand the "takes these things case by case" though. Monkey patching is frowned upon in my experience. Allen argued for it in the document.all case too, but was overruled.
14:46:42  <littledan>well, right, so we can go back and try to argue this through
14:47:01  <littledan>this is just a standing disagreement between Domenic and Allen
14:47:12  <annevk>At least in my experience there's definitely precedent for defining engines as they are and not trying to pretend some algorithms are cleaner than they are, due to the all the known problems with that
14:47:24  <littledan>I mean, I share that goal
14:47:38  <littledan>and I think the IsHTMLDDA way is good
14:47:41  <annevk>I suspect that if you were to involve Mark Miller or some such we'd quickly land on Domenic's side here
14:48:11  <annevk>(or heck, actual implementers)
14:48:15  <littledan>well, we may also get feature requests for user-defined objects to have the same cyclic check, and someone could assert that those feature requests are blocking
14:48:27  <littledan>anyway the only way to find out is to actually write this patch and bring it to committee
14:49:14  <annevk>Hmm, seems weird to suggest a feature request is blocking specifying reality, but I do vaguely recall some attempts, yes
14:49:17  <littledan>I'll put it on my todo list
14:49:32  <littledan>it just happens all the time. Sorry, I should be more positive, but I'm just kind of frustrated this week
14:50:44  <Domenic>Sounds like you'd benefit from some productive time working on IDL, with a welcoming community that desparately wants your involvement and has very little process ^_^
14:51:17  <Domenic>(I'll go check on that "implements" PR...)
14:52:32  <Domenic>(Still a couple of small items of outstanding review, I guess)
14:55:35  <littledan>sorry, I haven't updated it since your last comments
14:56:08  <littledan>the comments all made sense, I plan to fix all the things and write better text for *this*, as soon as I get done preparing for this TC39 meeting
14:56:22  <littledan>yeah it's been great getting started working with you all, very positive
14:57:14  <littledan>I'm still sad about https://github.com/tc39/ecma262/pull/735 not landing yet
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15:00:28  <littledan>expect to see more from my coworker ms2ger as well
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16:43:11  <devsnek>there's a test where `class D extends function() { arguments.callee } {}` is expected to throw
16:43:31  <devsnek>is that function supposed to be strict because its within the class?
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16:54:51  <Bakkot>devsnek: yes, it is: "all parts of a ClassDeclaration or a ClassExpression are strict mode code" https://tc39.github.io/ecma262/#sec-strict-mode-code
16:55:13  <devsnek>aha i was trying to find that
16:55:14  <Bakkot>ClassHeritage is part of ClassDeclaration
16:55:22  <devsnek>i remembered it only being parts of the ClassBody
16:55:46  <devsnek>thanks
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18:39:30  <Domenic>How would one kebab case "K V Storage" (as in "key value storage", but abbreviated)
18:43:04  <devsnek>Domenic: k-v-storage?
18:43:33  <devsnek>or k---v-storage if you want to preserve key-value :P
18:43:40  <Domenic>Yeah, torn between that and "kv-storage"...
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18:44:07  <Domenic>Like... how would you kebab case "X M L parser"
18:44:31  <devsnek>well people say "key value"
18:45:01  <devsnek>on the other hand I don't even know what the x in xml stands for, much less say "xyz markup language"
18:45:53  <Domenic>Heh
18:47:06  <Domenic>https://mobile.twitter.com/domenic/status/1083435033216630785
18:48:43  <devsnek>Domenic: I thought of a good test: how would you do it in camel case
18:48:55  <Domenic>Indeed, how would you do it in camel case.
18:49:43  <devsnek>then replace capitals with dash lowercase
18:49:51  <devsnek>kvStorage
18:50:06  <devsnek>not kVStorage
18:50:26  <Domenic>This seems probably correct
18:50:35  <rkirsling>agree
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