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| <Bakkot> | littledan: I want to bring Object.freezePrototypeOf before the commitee for stage 1 this meeting, just to start the process off; did you have specific things you wanted to do there or are you ok with me championing it myself? |
| 07:25:41
| <devsnek> | wouldn't that be a mop addition and make more sense for reflect? |
| 07:50:50
| <littledan> | Go for it, that will be great |
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| <ljharb> | devsnek: for consistency it should probably go on both Object and Reflect, no? |
| 08:58:31
| <devsnek> | ljharb: i thought the stuff on object was just legacy |
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| <ljharb> | we added gOPDs (that's not a proxy trap tho) |
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| 14:40:52
| <annevk> | littledan: I'm not sure I understand https://github.com/heycam/webidl/pull/606#issuecomment-453116978 |
| 14:41:06
| <littledan> | what about it? |
| 14:41:06
| <annevk> | littledan: are you saying there should be a check for cycles as Chrome/Safari do? |
| 14:41:23
| <annevk> | littledan: or are you saying a chain should be allowed somehow? |
| 14:41:46
| <littledan> | I'm suggesting the checks, |
| 14:42:24
| <annevk> | littledan: and then as for specifying this, perhaps we can follow the [[IsHTMLDDA]] precedent? |
| 14:42:40
| <littledan> | there's no strong precedent, TC39 takes these things case by case and there's lots of arguing |
| 14:43:28
| <littledan> | What did you mean by "I guess this wasn't the correct fix after all then and I'm not really sure how to resolve the original issue."? |
| 14:43:50
| <annevk> | littledan: that the PR against IDL wasn't correct |
| 14:44:00
| <littledan> | oh, not correct in the sense that it doesn't reflect the web |
| 14:44:05
| <littledan> | it still seems like a decent proposal to me |
| 14:44:23
| <littledan> | if you want to reflect the web, then checking for cycles seems like a good strategy |
| 14:44:25
| <annevk> | I guess, if implementers want to go that way |
| 14:45:00
| <littledan> | we're talking about 5 lines of code; it just takes a Chrome-side champion |
| 14:45:14
| <annevk> | Well, and a potential web compat hit |
| 14:45:25
| <littledan> | yeah |
| 14:45:49
| <littledan> | I don't have very strong intuitions here about the compat risk |
| 14:46:27
| <annevk> | I don't really understand the "takes these things case by case" though. Monkey patching is frowned upon in my experience. Allen argued for it in the document.all case too, but was overruled. |
| 14:46:42
| <littledan> | well, right, so we can go back and try to argue this through |
| 14:47:01
| <littledan> | this is just a standing disagreement between Domenic and Allen |
| 14:47:12
| <annevk> | At least in my experience there's definitely precedent for defining engines as they are and not trying to pretend some algorithms are cleaner than they are, due to the all the known problems with that |
| 14:47:24
| <littledan> | I mean, I share that goal |
| 14:47:38
| <littledan> | and I think the IsHTMLDDA way is good |
| 14:47:41
| <annevk> | I suspect that if you were to involve Mark Miller or some such we'd quickly land on Domenic's side here |
| 14:48:11
| <annevk> | (or heck, actual implementers) |
| 14:48:15
| <littledan> | well, we may also get feature requests for user-defined objects to have the same cyclic check, and someone could assert that those feature requests are blocking |
| 14:48:27
| <littledan> | anyway the only way to find out is to actually write this patch and bring it to committee |
| 14:49:14
| <annevk> | Hmm, seems weird to suggest a feature request is blocking specifying reality, but I do vaguely recall some attempts, yes |
| 14:49:17
| <littledan> | I'll put it on my todo list |
| 14:49:32
| <littledan> | it just happens all the time. Sorry, I should be more positive, but I'm just kind of frustrated this week |
| 14:50:44
| <Domenic> | Sounds like you'd benefit from some productive time working on IDL, with a welcoming community that desparately wants your involvement and has very little process ^_^ |
| 14:51:17
| <Domenic> | (I'll go check on that "implements" PR...) |
| 14:52:32
| <Domenic> | (Still a couple of small items of outstanding review, I guess) |
| 14:55:35
| <littledan> | sorry, I haven't updated it since your last comments |
| 14:56:08
| <littledan> | the comments all made sense, I plan to fix all the things and write better text for *this*, as soon as I get done preparing for this TC39 meeting |
| 14:56:22
| <littledan> | yeah it's been great getting started working with you all, very positive |
| 14:57:14
| <littledan> | I'm still sad about https://github.com/tc39/ecma262/pull/735 not landing yet |
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| <littledan> | expect to see more from my coworker ms2ger as well |
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| <devsnek> | there's a test where `class D extends function() { arguments.callee } {}` is expected to throw |
| 16:43:31
| <devsnek> | is that function supposed to be strict because its within the class? |
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| 16:54:51
| <Bakkot> | devsnek: yes, it is: "all parts of a ClassDeclaration or a ClassExpression are strict mode code" https://tc39.github.io/ecma262/#sec-strict-mode-code |
| 16:55:13
| <devsnek> | aha i was trying to find that |
| 16:55:14
| <Bakkot> | ClassHeritage is part of ClassDeclaration |
| 16:55:22
| <devsnek> | i remembered it only being parts of the ClassBody |
| 16:55:46
| <devsnek> | thanks |
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| <Domenic> | How would one kebab case "K V Storage" (as in "key value storage", but abbreviated) |
| 18:43:04
| <devsnek> | Domenic: k-v-storage? |
| 18:43:33
| <devsnek> | or k---v-storage if you want to preserve key-value :P |
| 18:43:40
| <Domenic> | Yeah, torn between that and "kv-storage"... |
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| <Domenic> | Like... how would you kebab case "X M L parser" |
| 18:44:31
| <devsnek> | well people say "key value" |
| 18:45:01
| <devsnek> | on the other hand I don't even know what the x in xml stands for, much less say "xyz markup language" |
| 18:45:53
| <Domenic> | Heh |
| 18:47:06
| <Domenic> | https://mobile.twitter.com/domenic/status/1083435033216630785 |
| 18:48:43
| <devsnek> | Domenic: I thought of a good test: how would you do it in camel case |
| 18:48:55
| <Domenic> | Indeed, how would you do it in camel case. |
| 18:49:43
| <devsnek> | then replace capitals with dash lowercase |
| 18:49:51
| <devsnek> | kvStorage |
| 18:50:06
| <devsnek> | not kVStorage |
| 18:50:26
| <Domenic> | This seems probably correct |
| 18:50:35
| <rkirsling> | agree |
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