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17:34:08  <arkain>There's something I'd like to understand. Can anyone explain (or is there a link to prior explanations) for why the board has committed to "undetectability" with private fields? I'm not looking to argue against it here, just to be convinced it's a necessity.
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17:43:49  <devsnek>arkain: what does that mean
17:44:51  <arkain>I want to understand why the TC39 think undetectability of private fields will solve anything, and what problems it will actually prevent.
17:45:32  <devsnek>undetectability?
17:46:24  <arkain>not even able to be accidentally detected via addition of public members after object instantiation.
17:46:44  <zenparsing>@arkain is asking for use cases, obviously
17:46:52  <arkain>yes
17:47:19  <devsnek>well the only way to make them private is to limit the scope of their reachability
17:47:35  <devsnek>js engines can't perform traditional access control because there is no static type system
17:47:53  <arkain>not necessarily true
17:48:35  <arkain>I've already devised several different means that works without the need for a static type system
17:49:05  <devsnek>neat
17:49:20  <arkain>Everything the language needs to make this work already exists in the language. It's just a lot of boiler plate to write every time.
17:49:35  <devsnek>what do you mean
17:50:37  <arkain>Look at the README.md here: https://github.com/rdking/proposal-object-members
17:50:53  <arkain>About half way down, there's an example of what I'm talking about.
17:51:26  <devsnek>ok so what if i do
17:51:43  <arkain>All that's missing is some clean syntax to roll it all up (which is what that proposal is about).
17:51:43  <devsnek>`class X { private a; }` and `new X().a`
17:51:56  <devsnek>what is `.a` here
17:52:02  <arkain>undefined
17:52:09  <devsnek>what happens if i assign it
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17:52:31  <arkain>silent fail unless "use strict". Then it's an Error
17:53:17  <devsnek>how does one track the difference between `this.a` vs `const y = this; y.a` internally
17:53:38  <devsnek>and then tell the difference between `y.a` and `new X().a`
17:55:16  <arkain>https://github.com/tc39/proposal-class-fields/issues/136#issuecomment-427709282
17:55:48  <arkain>Not really an issue.
17:58:39  <devsnek>the abstract ops you posted don't really fit together
17:58:53  <devsnek>OrdinaryGet doesn't use the check private field you pass it
18:01:02  <devsnek>and reading through this you get a super nice explicit answer
18:01:06  <devsnek>`Being detectable means that someone could write code that branches on the presence or absence of private fields, which makes adding or removing one a breaking change, which violates encapsulation.`
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