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| 01:46:56
| <devsnek> | does it bother anyone else that there's this inconsistency in having "Own" in the names of object internal slots |
| 01:47:03
| <devsnek> | and that its inverted for the names exposed on Object |
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| 04:39:21
| <ljharb> | devsnek: yes |
| 04:39:33
| <ljharb> | devsnek: i'm suggesting that it start out as an accessor descriptor with a getter of %ThrowTypeError% |
| 04:39:50
| <devsnek> | oh |
| 04:39:51
| <ljharb> | and then later it would change to a data property, once it was out of tdz |
| 04:39:57
| <devsnek> | that sounds hecky |
| 04:40:04
| <ljharb> | or, we could make a special kind of descriptor that's "everything but get/set/value" |
| 04:40:09
| <ljharb> | and *that* wouldn't be TDZ'd |
| 04:40:50
| <devsnek> | decisions like this remind me of the existence of double-equals |
| 04:41:14
| <devsnek> | although i'll be honest i was considering a new primitive "empty" type :P |
| 04:43:00
| <devsnek> | i think a better thing might be to take a look at the general property logic we have going on in the spec rn |
| 04:52:14
| <Bakkot> | the problem with that plan is that you can actually reify the accessor functions, which is :( |
| 04:52:17
| <Bakkot> | (cf https://github.com/tc39/ecma262/issues/1209#issuecomment-392910280 ) |
| 04:56:21
| <ljharb> | Bakkot: you can already reify ThrowTypeError tho |
| 04:56:27
| <ljharb> | so this would just be exposing it in yet another place |
| 04:56:49
| <ljharb> | Bakkot: note that i'm not saying it should be a getter/setter once out of the TDZ |
| 04:57:02
| <ljharb> | i'm saying it should be reconfigured from accessor to data as part of the module being evaluated |
| 05:00:07
| <Bakkot> | ah, hm |
| 05:01:42
| <Bakkot> | except they're non-configurable, and non-configurable things aren't supposed to switch from being accessors to data properties |
| 05:02:14
| <Bakkot> | that's one of the invariants for exotic objects: https://tc39.github.io/ecma262/#sec-invariants-of-the-essential-internal-methods |
| 05:02:31
| <Bakkot> | "If P's attributes other than [[Writable]] may change over time or if the property might disappear, then P's [[Configurable]] attribute must be true" |
| 05:02:55
| <Bakkot> | (of course, proxies can violate that _anyway_, but it still seems like maybe a bad thing) |
| 05:08:26
| <ljharb> | Bakkot: could we make propertyIsEnumerable work, even though a descriptor isn’t accessible? |
| 05:09:08
| <ljharb> | like provide a way to check enumerability without needing to get at the whole descriptor |
| 05:09:14
| <ljharb> | or would that be a major reworking |
| 05:09:25
| <Bakkot> | We'd have to special case module exotic objects, I think, which in principle is not something allowed by the MOP |
| 05:09:31
| <Bakkot> | (or extend the MOP, but that's even worse) |
| 05:10:01
| <Bakkot> | but I'd be ok with it personally; no one in the whole world knows about the MOP, and the intuition that for-in over a module object should work is reasonable |
| 05:10:10
| <ljharb> | yeah i agree |
| 05:10:55
| <Bakkot> | though, it might interfere weirdly with proxies for module namespace exotic objects |
| 05:11:24
| <Bakkot> | e.g. unless we also special case proxies for them, you'd be able to for-in over a namespace object but not a proxy for the namespace object |
| 05:20:19
| <devsnek> | what is the MOP lol |
| 05:24:20
| <Bakkot> | meta-object protocol |
| 05:25:00
| <Bakkot> | Basically all the [[GetOwnProperty]] stuff. |
| 05:25:04
| <devsnek> | ok |
| 05:25:50
| <devsnek> | well i think the MOP needs a mop-up |
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| 05:56:38
| <rkirsling> | incidentally I have a GH issue opened to add MOP to our nascent glossary |
| 05:59:47
| <rkirsling> | because it's thrown around as if it were common CS verbiage but it's really a CLOSism so kind of a "you gotta know what a crumpet is to understand cricket" kinda situation |
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| 07:55:22
| <pchan> | hi |
| 07:56:01
| <pchan> | got questions. Could anyone please reply? |
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| 16:14:12
| <devsnek> | what if there were a pr to rename stuff like [[DefineOwnProperty]] to [[DefineProperty]] |
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| 17:06:36
| <devsnek> | why is `The result List must contain the keys of all non-configurable own properties of the target object.` an invariant of the ownKeys trap |
| 17:06:53
| <devsnek> | whats the point of the ownKeys trap even existing in this case |
| 17:08:50
| <ljharb> | ordering? |
| 17:09:10
| <devsnek> | whats the point of the invariant |
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| <TimothyGu> | devsnek: the keyword is non-configurable |
| 23:26:17
| <devsnek> | TimothyGu: yeah i saw that in there |
| 23:26:21
| <TimothyGu> | this is important for the web security model for example, specifically with the [Unforgeable] Web IDL annotation |
| 23:27:37
| <TimothyGu> | what's interesting IMO (and a bit annoying) is that Proxy's invariant enforcers are actually stricter than the spec invariants |
| 23:27:43
| <devsnek> | i was going to say "if i'm willing to use every trap to simulate a different object why can't i xxx" but then it occured to me |
| 23:27:50
| <devsnek> | at that point i can just not put the original object as the target |
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| 23:28:30
| <TimothyGu> | sure but you still need to respect Object.defineProperty(proxy, …, { configurable: false }) |
| 23:28:44
| <TimothyGu> | i.e., either make it work or throw an exception |
| 23:29:58
| <devsnek> | just trying to figure out a nice way to inspect values in engine262 |
| 23:30:11
| <devsnek> | all the traps that mutate throw/return false so thats not a problem |
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