00:01:27  * keith_millerjoined
00:02:56  * keith_millerquit (Client Quit)
00:21:43  * aki_joined
00:22:27  * akirosequit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:20:30  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:21:53  * AtumTjoined
01:22:20  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:23:52  * AtumTjoined
01:24:32  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:25:55  * AtumTjoined
01:26:46  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:34:05  * AtumTjoined
01:34:51  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:36:00  * AtumTjoined
01:36:46  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:38:06  * AtumTjoined
01:38:59  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:39:42  * gibson042joined
01:39:44  * gibson042quit (Client Quit)
01:40:25  * AtumTjoined
01:41:05  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:42:11  * AtumTjoined
01:42:55  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:44:10  * AtumTjoined
01:44:51  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:46:11  * AtumTjoined
01:46:58  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:48:15  * AtumTjoined
01:49:05  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:50:31  * AtumTjoined
01:54:30  * gibson042joined
02:00:40  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:00:52  * AtumTjoined
02:04:32  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:04:46  * AtumTjoined
02:20:53  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:21:08  * AtumTjoined
02:27:35  * akirosejoined
02:28:49  * aki_quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
02:34:45  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:34:57  * AtumTjoined
02:37:39  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:37:52  * AtumTjoined
02:41:53  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:43:14  * AtumTjoined
02:46:13  * AtumT_joined
02:46:35  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:52:04  * AtumT_quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:52:17  * AtumTjoined
02:55:02  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:55:14  * AtumTjoined
03:31:06  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
03:31:18  * AtumTjoined
03:35:36  * ryzokukenjoined
03:36:48  * ryzokukenquit (Changing host)
03:36:49  * ryzokukenjoined
03:49:13  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
03:49:16  * AtumT_joined
03:54:13  * AtumT_quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
03:55:35  * AtumTjoined
04:04:05  * ryzokukenquit (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.github.io)
04:08:30  * AtumT_joined
04:08:44  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
04:11:05  * jmdyckquit (Remote host closed the connection)
04:13:50  * AtumT_quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
04:14:05  * AtumTjoined
04:34:15  * aki_joined
04:35:45  * akirosequit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
05:35:29  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
05:37:12  * AtumTjoined
05:45:24  * ryzokukenjoined
06:05:37  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
06:05:51  * AtumTjoined
06:23:51  * AtumT_joined
06:24:12  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
06:34:23  * keith_millerjoined
06:40:30  * akirosejoined
06:41:21  * aki_quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
06:41:52  * AtumTjoined
06:42:15  * AtumT_quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
06:52:13  * AtumT_joined
06:52:39  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
06:59:36  * AtumT_quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
06:59:53  * AtumTjoined
07:06:52  * gibson042quit (Quit: Leaving.)
07:17:55  * AtumT_joined
07:18:23  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
07:22:03  * AtumTjoined
07:22:30  * AtumT_quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
07:32:30  * akoserwajoined
08:08:15  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:08:28  * AtumTjoined
08:11:42  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:11:59  * AtumTjoined
08:30:25  * AtumT_joined
08:30:35  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:46:12  * aki_joined
08:46:57  * akirosequit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
08:48:00  * AtumTjoined
08:48:18  * AtumT_quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
09:05:29  * towcquit (Quit: Leaving)
09:05:46  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
09:06:12  * AtumTjoined
09:20:35  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
09:22:01  * AtumTjoined
09:31:35  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
09:32:49  * AtumTjoined
09:34:31  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
09:35:55  * AtumTjoined
09:38:54  * AtumT_joined
09:39:29  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:06:16  * AtumTjoined
10:06:56  * AtumT_quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:25:11  * mylesborinsquit (Quit: farewell for now)
10:25:20  * mylesborinsjoined
10:52:53  * akirosejoined
10:53:35  * aki_quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
10:55:35  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:55:49  * AtumTjoined
11:03:05  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:04:35  * AtumTjoined
11:06:16  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:07:47  * AtumTjoined
11:07:51  * keith_millerquit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
11:16:38  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:16:54  * AtumTjoined
11:19:52  * AtumT_joined
11:19:57  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:22:33  * AtumT_quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:22:49  * AtumTjoined
11:23:33  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:24:54  * AtumTjoined
11:25:39  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:27:00  * AtumTjoined
11:27:45  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:29:11  * AtumTjoined
11:29:12  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:31:16  * jmdyckjoined
11:37:42  * AtumTjoined
11:38:23  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:39:42  * AtumTjoined
11:48:02  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:49:21  * AtumTjoined
11:50:08  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:51:31  * AtumTjoined
11:52:10  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:53:31  * AtumTjoined
12:08:40  * AtumTquit (Remote host closed the connection)
12:59:04  * aki_joined
12:59:52  * akirosequit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
13:00:57  * keith_millerjoined
13:02:37  * keith_millerquit (Client Quit)
13:04:05  * keith_millerjoined
13:06:49  * gibson042joined
13:08:12  * keith_millerquit (Client Quit)
13:12:19  * AtumTjoined
13:12:31  * AtumTquit (Remote host closed the connection)
13:34:54  * gibson042quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
13:48:47  * gibson042joined
13:54:46  * AtumTjoined
14:33:43  * cloudshujoined
14:53:39  * keith_millerjoined
14:59:47  * ephemera__quit (Remote host closed the connection)
15:00:01  * ephemera_joined
15:01:46  * keith_millerquit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
15:02:41  * ephemera_quit (Remote host closed the connection)
15:02:56  * ephemera_joined
15:03:54  * ephemera_quit (Remote host closed the connection)
15:04:08  * ephemera_joined
15:04:54  * aki_quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
15:06:01  * akirosejoined
15:07:21  * ephemera_quit (Remote host closed the connection)
15:07:36  * ephemera_joined
15:21:51  * jwaldenjoined
15:28:00  * ephemera_quit (Remote host closed the connection)
15:29:54  * akoserwaquit (Quit: Leaving)
15:32:13  * keith_millerjoined
15:53:40  * keith_millerquit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
15:57:12  <leobalter>towc set can't return true if the target property is not writable
15:57:25  <leobalter>I can get the spec text for you, and it's not a bug, but working as intended
16:03:57  <leobalter>towc: https://tc39.github.io/ecma262/#sec-proxy-object-internal-methods-and-internal-slots-set-p-v-receiver
16:04:25  <leobalter>See 11.a.i, that only happens if the trap result is true.
16:05:12  <leobalter>that means Proxies are not meant to generate wrong expectations
16:06:51  <leobalter>also, in your code, when you define `session.id`, configurable is false by default.
16:14:18  * keith_millerjoined
16:20:05  * ephemera_joined
17:06:32  * keith_millerquit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
17:13:01  * aki_joined
17:14:09  * akirosequit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
17:27:26  * keith_millerjoined
17:36:16  * keith_millerquit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
18:06:30  * keith_millerjoined
19:03:24  * vikash-afkquit (Remote host closed the connection)
19:19:09  * akirosejoined
19:20:14  * aki_quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
19:48:23  <IgnoredAmbience>I would like to extend my thanks to the people that have written the test262 helper libraries. Has made my life a lot easier today.
19:59:50  <rkirsling>that reminds me, IgnoredAmbience -- I just learned about JaVerT this morning (from ystartsev's presentation slides), and I think it's the most amusing project name I've heard in a while XD
20:26:22  * AtumT_joined
20:26:59  * AtumTquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
20:39:36  * AtumTjoined
20:39:53  * AtumT_quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
20:49:37  * keith_millerquit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
20:59:40  * dilijevjoined
21:24:56  * aki_joined
21:26:10  * akirosequit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
22:07:02  * jwaldenquit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
22:58:11  * jwaldenjoined
23:00:57  <IgnoredAmbience>I'm not directly working on that project, the project lead is a huge Les Miserables fan, hence the name
23:02:59  <IgnoredAmbience>I'd completely missed that Curry On/ISSTA/ECOOP were happening this week :/
23:03:09  <IgnoredAmbience>Usually attend one of those each year
23:03:45  <rkirsling>I approve 👍 I wasn't clear on how, say, JSExplain connects to that though
23:05:58  <rkirsling>and yeah, Curry On sounds pretty darn fun
23:21:06  <IgnoredAmbience>JSExplain is essentially next steps on the JSCert specification project. JSCert suffered from requiring triple-implementation of the spec, reference interpreter and proof connecting them. This approach pivots to using the reference interpreter as the central point of specification with a declarative semantics (for use with theorem provers) extracted from it automatically
23:22:10  <IgnoredAmbience>At the same time, we're also trying to push the language the reference interpreter is written in into a sweet spot for both ease of maintenance wrt lexical similarity to the ECMA262 psuedocode
23:23:21  <IgnoredAmbience>(For various reasons, progress on JSExplain has been slow in recent years)
23:26:44  <devsnek>IgnoredAmbience: what is this jsexplain thing
23:26:57  <devsnek>is it just stepping through a js runtime?
23:27:35  <IgnoredAmbience>Basically a 'reference' interpreter that's written to be as close to the spec psuedocode as possible
23:27:48  <devsnek>and its written in js?
23:28:06  <devsnek>hmm looks like
23:28:10  <IgnoredAmbience>Written in our own OCaml subset and compiled to JS
23:28:19  <devsnek>ah
23:29:00  <devsnek>i just wrote a reference implementation of promises in js
23:29:14  <devsnek>this looks pretty cool in comparison but i don't know ocaml
23:29:22  <IgnoredAmbience>We've got a rather rudimentary time-travel debugger interface on top of it, which allows conditional breakpoints to be set on either the interpreter source or the js being executed
23:30:06  <IgnoredAmbience>The subset we've chosen is rather directly compilable into JS, the most awkward bit is getting the variable scopes to match up
23:30:30  <IgnoredAmbience>It's a very naive compilation
23:30:34  <devsnek>i've always wanted to see a javascript engine written in javascript
23:30:36  <devsnek>just for kicks
23:31:04  <IgnoredAmbience>Well, the current dev version is up here: https://jscert.github.io/jsexplain/branch/es2016-proxies/driver.html
23:31:10  <IgnoredAmbience>Please don't judge too harshly
23:31:18  <devsnek>yeah i found that
23:31:39  * akirosejoined
23:31:57  * aki_quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:32:08  <IgnoredAmbience>The implementation is a bit of a mix between our old ES5 version and ES6+ versions hooked on top of it.
23:32:26  <IgnoredAmbience>It's been a rewrite and rehook approach to pulling it up to the latest version.
23:34:40  <IgnoredAmbience>(I went rather over the top with unicode variable names in the generated JS to avoid name collision...)
23:37:31  <IgnoredAmbience>I'm still a long way from happy with it overall, would really like to move onto getting some quick wins from it, particularly alo
23:38:17  <IgnoredAmbience>*along the lines of feeding into https://github.com/tc39/ecma262/pull/545
23:47:39  <IgnoredAmbience>We've a paper on the detail of the implementation and future aims here: https://psvg.doc.ic.ac.uk/publications/Chargueraud2018JSExplain.pdf
23:53:15  <rkirsling>I'd be interested in helping make the spec more machine-readable
23:54:25  <rkirsling>I was just feeling that it sort of needs a linter :P but if it becomes more machine-readable, then "lintedness" can sort of fall out of that
23:55:30  <jmdyck>I've written a sort-of linter, but there's a lot of noise.
23:55:42  <devsnek>spec should be human readable not machine readable
23:55:59  <devsnek>after all its us fleshy bags that have to parse it
23:56:02  <jmdyck>why not both?
23:56:09  <devsnek>both is fine just
23:56:17  <IgnoredAmbience>I've been reconsidering the jsexplain approach recently, I've still got the feeling tht the spec text could be parsable for the most part
23:56:38  <jmdyck>it is if you use a big enough grammar.
23:57:01  <devsnek>there are definitely places where the spec text could be changed to be more consistent
23:57:14  <ljharb>jmdyck: it'd be super nice if we added enforcement for all the things you make mega editorial PRs for :-p
23:57:31  <ljharb>iow i'm asking you to automate "you" please
23:57:35  <devsnek>are we gonna have a spec spec
23:58:16  <rkirsling>yeah I took human-readability to be a given -- actually potentially something that becomes easier to enforce with increased machine-readability
23:58:29  <IgnoredAmbience>We've already got the metalanguage specified in quite a few places
23:58:48  <IgnoredAmbience>In particular, this clarification was the one that tripped us up the most: https://github.com/tc39/ecma262/commit/a5d62b1ca0f63fc8c27fd3e42b734bb8b12389c8
23:59:02  <rkirsling>ljharb: you'd be seeing more from me too, I just got embarrassed by the couple that are still sitting open and didn't want to overwhelm anybody 😅
23:59:11  <devsnek>oh boy i didn't know that
23:59:37  <devsnek>why would we have references like that anyway