00:04:39  * keith_mi_quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
00:08:54  * not-an-aardvarkquit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
00:16:09  * atticoos_quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:18:17  * keith_millerjoined
00:28:24  * jmdyckquit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:28:42  * atticoos_joined
00:30:57  * jmdyckjoined
00:33:57  * atticoos_quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:41:36  * atticoos_joined
00:46:03  * atticoos_quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
00:49:56  * keith_millerquit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
00:51:01  * Jayfluxquit (Quit: Leaving)
00:55:57  * atticoos_joined
00:59:15  * caridyquit (Remote host closed the connection)
01:00:38  * caridyjoined
01:05:28  * atticoos_quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:17:24  * atticoos_joined
01:19:45  * AtumTquit (Remote host closed the connection)
01:21:45  * atticoos_quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
01:36:56  <devsnek>whoa this module graph thing is neat
01:40:45  * atticoos_joined
01:45:59  * atticoos_quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
01:55:05  * atticoos_joined
01:59:59  * atticoos_quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
02:03:32  * not-an-aardvarkjoined
02:04:55  * atticoos_joined
02:27:24  * atticoos_quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
02:27:59  * keith_millerjoined
02:38:14  * keith_millerquit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
02:47:39  * caridyquit (Remote host closed the connection)
02:48:06  * caridyjoined
02:52:17  * caridyquit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
02:57:40  * keith_millerjoined
03:02:57  * gibson042quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
03:17:30  * gibson042joined
03:42:17  * keith_millerquit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
04:21:48  * jdalton_quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
04:25:17  * jmdyckquit (Remote host closed the connection)
04:25:19  * keith_millerjoined
05:42:02  * gskachkov_quit (Quit: gskachkov_)
05:45:09  * jwaldenquit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92-rdmsoft [XULRunner 35.0.1/20150122214805])
06:48:17  * keith_millerquit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
06:52:09  * keith_millerjoined
07:05:02  * Havvyjoined
07:09:45  * Havvyquit (Client Quit)
07:10:10  * Havvyjoined
07:21:58  * gskachkov_joined
07:22:25  * gskachkov_part
07:54:25  * keith_millerquit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
07:58:54  * not-an-aardvarkquit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
08:29:19  * gskachkov_joined
08:35:27  * gskachkov_quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
08:40:31  * gskachkov_joined
08:43:11  * gskachkov_quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:47:13  * gskachkov_joined
10:08:30  * gskachkov_quit (Quit: gskachkov_)
10:12:03  * howdoijoined
10:25:12  * mylesborinsquit (Quit: farewell for now)
10:25:41  * mylesborinsjoined
10:51:40  * gskachkov_joined
11:05:17  * gibson042quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
11:05:33  * gibson042joined
11:49:22  * gibson042quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
12:18:32  * gskachkov_quit (Quit: gskachkov_)
12:19:35  * cloudshujoined
12:43:15  * jmdyckjoined
13:17:20  * atticoosjoined
14:05:21  * keith_millerjoined
14:14:56  * caridyjoined
14:23:08  * caridyquit (Remote host closed the connection)
14:23:44  * caridyjoined
14:57:36  * keith_millerquit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
15:11:12  * keith_millerjoined
15:57:31  * vikashljoined
15:58:06  * efaustjoined
15:58:29  * efaustchanged nick to Guest31536
16:03:02  * efaust_quit (*.net *.split)
16:03:02  * shachafquit (*.net *.split)
16:03:03  * vikash-afkquit (*.net *.split)
16:18:59  * shachafjoined
16:41:58  * keith_millerquit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
18:11:36  * jwaldenjoined
18:16:55  <spectranaut>hey bterlson -- could you explain to me what a "concrete method" is? there seems to be no definition in the ecma262 -- but there are many in the part of the spec describing modules. Such as: https://tc39.github.io/ecma262/#sec-resolveexport
18:26:42  <jmdyck>The 'concrete' is somewhat misleading: it's no more or less concrete than an 'abstract operation' for example.
18:27:48  <jmdyck>Instead, it's 'concrete' in the sense that it's a specific implementation of an 'abstract method'
18:28:43  <jmdyck>when you assume that some spec types are in an inheritance/specialization hierarchy
18:29:54  * atticoosquit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
18:30:33  <spectranaut>does this mean that there can be more than one concrete/specific implementation of an 'abstract method' -- do you know of a case of this occuring in ecmascript?
18:30:50  <jmdyck>indeed it does
18:31:31  <jmdyck>e.g., there are various kinds of Environment Record,
18:31:48  <jmdyck>which are conceptually arranged in a type hierarchy
18:32:44  <spectranaut>hmm I think I see now
18:33:21  <jmdyck>and each such type defines a HasBinding() method
18:34:55  <spectranaut>all the "HasBinding" concrete methods do not have a "concrete method" written into the header
18:35:11  <spectranaut>https://tc39.github.io/ecma262/#sec-global-environment-records-hasbinding-n vs https://tc39.github.io/ecma262/#sec-resolveexport
18:35:12  <jmdyck>elsewhere in the spec, an algorithm can invoke the HasBinding() method of an environment record without 'knowing' what kind it is.
18:35:28  <spectranaut>should they?
18:35:54  <spectranaut>also thanks for explaining, jmdyck :)
18:36:18  <jmdyck>Hard to say if they should.
18:37:12  <jmdyck>It's possible things will change with a PR that bterlson is working on.
18:41:05  * jmdyck1joined
18:41:34  * jmdyckquit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
18:42:07  <jmdyck1>(Hm, looks like some stuff got dropped. Sorry if the is a repeat...)
18:42:16  <jmdyck1>which, if I recall correctly, will sort-of unify syntax-directed operations and concrete methods
18:42:21  <jmdyck1>It will at least unify the invocation syntax: thing.method(args), which is used for concrete methods, but not currently for SDOs
18:42:27  <jmdyck1>(Is that right, bterlson?)
18:43:06  <spectranaut>ah that makes sense
18:43:32  <jmdyck1>Not sure how much it'll change their 'declaration' syntax. Possibly not at all.
18:44:43  * AtumTjoined
18:45:59  <jmdyck1>But it might replace the 'concrete method' terminology.
18:56:00  <spectranaut>I see
19:35:43  <bterlson>jmdyck1: spectranaut: yes it's right, see also this pr for the updated conventions (https://github.com/tc39/ecma262/pull/955)
19:35:51  <bterlson>will be validating with people at tc39 and pulling hopefully next week :)
19:37:16  <jmdyck1>(that's what you said several weeks ago)
19:39:45  <bterlson>jmdyck1: yeah well it turns out things pre-empt this work often
19:40:02  <bterlson>e.g. I didn't expect to spend days reading a new class proposal :-P
19:40:22  <bterlson>anyway I really like getting in person reviews
19:40:59  <jmdyck1>last commit was Sep 28, going to be any more?
19:41:12  <bterlson>hmm
19:41:13  <jmdyck1>(i.e., should I wait before looking?)
19:42:05  <bterlson>yeah I have many more commits
19:42:13  <bterlson>weird they didn't push, I was trying to
19:43:10  <bterlson>ok I pushed a bunch more
19:44:31  * dherman_changed nick to dherman
19:44:54  <jmdyck1>yay
19:45:30  <bterlson>I have a couple more done in my working tree it looks like, I'll try to push tonight
19:45:38  <bterlson>I also didn't do the [[Get]] field rename we discussed
19:51:29  <spectranaut>hey dherman_, I was recommended to ping you about a question regarding this spec proposal: https://github.com/tc39/proposal-export-ns-from
19:52:00  <spectranaut>I'm currently writting spec changes but only have a couple of days to do it, I'm curious if you have looked at this spec change proposal and know the answer to the following --
19:52:02  <jmdyck1>bterlson: I'll probably take a look this wknd
19:52:12  <spectranaut>If someone were to write `export * as default from 'somemodule'`, this would create the record: {[[ModuleRequest]]: 'somemodule', [[ImportName]]: '*', [[LocalName]]: null, [[ExportName]]: "default"}
19:52:20  <bterlson>jmdyck1: aight, just fyi I'll be in airports for most of it
19:52:36  <spectranaut>(also bterlson -- maybe you have looked into this ^)
19:52:39  <jmdyck1>what fun
19:53:10  <jmdyck1>ah right, tc39 in london next week
19:54:04  <spectranaut>dherman: the question -- {[[ImportName]]: '*' / [[ExportName]]: 'default'} records would be added to the module.[[StarExportEntries]] -- do you know if this case will be handled by the module methods including ResolveExports?
19:54:52  <dherman>spectranaut: hi!
19:55:09  <spectranaut>hi :)
19:55:22  <dherman>not sure why irccloud didn't give me the notification earlier
19:55:33  <dherman>oh I see
19:55:38  <dherman>because I changed my nick
19:55:40  <dherman>sorry :)
19:55:54  <spectranaut>haha right the second auto-complete worked :)
19:55:57  <dherman>lol
19:55:58  <dherman>ok so
19:56:03  <dherman>I'm getting on calls for the next 1.5h
19:56:04  <spectranaut>anyway sorry for threading the convo above
19:56:08  <dherman>but I will look at this right after that
19:56:12  <spectranaut>ok cool
19:56:15  <dherman>what time zone are you in?
19:56:24  <spectranaut>I'm in EST
19:56:32  <spectranaut>boston, with bocoup
19:57:12  <dherman>ah right -- we met at bocoup, didn't we?
19:57:16  * dhermanwaves
19:57:16  <spectranaut>anyway the key scenario (copied from above) is: what happens with `export * as default from 'somemodule'`, this would create the record: {[[ModuleRequest]]: 'somemodule', [[ImportName]]: '*', [[LocalName]]: null, [[ExportName]]: "default"}
19:57:32  <dherman>ok, feel free to share any more details you want and I'll read when I get off these calls
19:57:54  <dherman>(if you're unavailable at that point because of time differences no worries, you can reply whenever)
19:57:59  <dherman>thx for your patience
19:58:01  <spectranaut>ok cool :) we probably met, but it was my 3rd week at bocoup and first time at tc39, so a lot of new faces!
19:58:17  <dherman>no worries :)
20:07:01  <spectranaut>I'm concern about this proposal update the production to all `export * as ns from 'foo'`, and no one went back to update the algorithms other than the static semantics. bterlson claims `export * as default from 'foo'` should be allowed, but it seems like this allows the addition of an edge case that is not address in the GetExportedNames method
20:07:10  <spectranaut>maybe someone verified it actually all works out :)
20:07:25  <spectranaut>and I would be happy to hear that, I'm just afraid this got overlooked
20:18:44  <spectranaut>the proposal, so you don't have to go looking up: https://github.com/tc39/proposal-export-ns-from
20:20:09  * keith_millerjoined
21:05:35  * keith_millerquit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
21:29:40  * keith_millerjoined
21:33:12  * atticoos_joined
21:34:30  * keith_millerquit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
22:07:23  * AtumTquit (*.net *.split)
22:07:26  * leobalter_fancy_quit (*.net *.split)
22:08:00  * AtumTjoined
22:08:01  * 7ITAAAX3Jjoined
22:17:14  <spectranaut>dherman: I'm out for the weekend -- but I'll return to this Monday!
23:48:46  * gibson042joined