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00:26:57  <jschoi>Does ECMA262 prefer Oxford comma or Harvard comma? I see both used. See first algorithm’s step 2 versus the note, in https://tc39.github.io/ecma262/#sec-arrow-function-definitions-static-semantics-contains.
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02:19:46  <devsnek>why does `new Proxy(x, {})` without a `get` handler change how a property is gotten from `x`
02:25:17  <bterlson>jschoi: I think historically oxford comma but I find the practice distasteful
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02:29:29  <bterlson>devsnek: are you asking for motivation or explanation of current behavior?
02:29:35  <devsnek>both
02:30:00  <bterlson>the empty handler is not intended to be a good "default"
02:30:14  <bterlson>there are many subtle issues you may want to handle
02:30:38  <bterlson>notes on GitHub may go back that far
02:30:50  <devsnek>I just want getOwnProperty to be transparently handled :/
02:31:08  <devsnek>but it seems to break the internal slots of the returned value
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02:31:37  <bterlson>proxy objects do not inherit the internal slots of the target
02:33:01  <devsnek>it's like
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02:33:19  <devsnek>if I do new Proxy(new Map, {}).set()
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02:33:44  <devsnek>why would that somehow not be supported behaviour
02:34:19  <bterlson>it's supported, you just have to implement the traps so it works :-P
02:34:40  <devsnek>you have to intercept every get and .bind if it's a function :/
02:35:44  <devsnek>and then that would break some user wanting to .bind the method of the proxy they don't know exists
02:41:48  * jwaldencalls for a vote of no-confidence over bterlson's distaste for the Oxford comma
02:42:26  <devsnek>as a random internet person I prefer oxford comma
02:46:45  <jmdyck>jschoi: Oxford comma and Harvard comma are the same. I believe Ecma262 prefers it.
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03:07:02  <jschoi>Sorry, semantic ambiguity. I meant “or” in the same sense of alternative names not alternative objects.
03:07:37  <jschoi>*in the sense of
03:08:29  <jschoi>…I suppose that the “both [with and without]” right after is even worse right after that “or” sentence. Whoops…
03:09:16  <jmdyck>yup!
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06:06:08  <ljharb>jschoi: never heard of the harvard comma
06:06:14  <ljharb>bterlson: wait, you don't *like* the oxford comma??
06:07:03  <ljharb>devsnek: you could still make it work, you just can't use `.bind`
06:07:16  <devsnek>i'm doing uh
06:07:29  <devsnek>if you know internal util's create class wrapper
06:07:33  <ljharb>i don't
06:08:10  <devsnek>https://gist.github.com/devsnek/7a20bdcf1d01fdb2d2eb16b2ba5bf439
06:08:22  <devsnek>this works in my little test.js script
06:08:37  <devsnek>but when i put the exact same code into actual use
06:08:47  <devsnek>i get illegal invocation
06:08:57  <devsnek>on console.log of all things
06:09:07  <devsnek>which is weird because console.log is already a bound function
06:09:10  <ljharb>doesn't Reflect.apply take 4 args?
06:09:15  <devsnek>wha
06:09:28  <devsnek>i don't think so
06:09:30  <ljharb>one sec
06:09:34  <ljharb>ah ok nvm
06:09:36  <devsnek>target, thisArg, arguments
06:09:55  <devsnek>Reflect.apply.length is 3
06:10:08  <ljharb>yeah i'm wrong, don't mind me
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16:34:36  <jschoi>When creating a pull request to tc39/ecma262, the request’s base branch should be master, right?
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16:38:31  <jmdyck>jschoi: unless there's a good reason for it not to be.
16:38:41  <jschoi>Thanks.
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19:33:30  <jschoi>Does ECMA262 prefer British spelling?
19:33:44  <bterlson>jschoi: yes for prose, no for public APIs
19:33:58  <jschoi>Thanks.
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19:39:31  <ljharb>bterlson: still yes for prose? is that just a previous choice, or is there a reasoning behind it?
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19:53:42  <bterlson>ljharb: is there any objective reason one could prefer one over the other?
19:54:04  <bterlson>AFAIK: just history
19:59:14  <cloudshu>consistency with API naming is compelling to me
19:59:22  <jmdyck>http://www.ecma-international.org/memento/EcmaRules.htm rule 1: "The English language, as written in the United Kingdom, shall be the official language of the Association."
19:59:38  <bterlson>jmdyck: I was trying to find the source document for that
19:59:43  <bterlson>it's an ISO meta-spec
19:59:55  <bterlson>I have to run for a bit but you can find the metaspec on ISO's website somewhere I think
20:00:21  <bterlson>but hilarious that it's literally the first rule of ECMA
20:43:13  <ljharb>bterlson: prose being consistent with the APIs.
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