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03:48:01  <gibson042>mathiasbynens: thanks once again for championing in my stead
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05:09:38  <mathiasbynens>gibson042: no worries! thanks for making it so easy for me to do so by coming up with a solid proposal
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21:59:57  <zbraniecki>new Date("2016-11-31 23:59") - should this be `Invalid Date` according to the spec or a a date for December 1st 2016?
22:00:09  <zbraniecki>spidermonkey and v8 disagree
22:00:44  <ljharb>zbraniecki: since months are zero-indexed, i'd assume it's december 31st, a minute before midnight
22:00:57  <ljharb>oh wait that's a string tho
22:01:02  <bterlson>ljharb: the args do date constructor are 0-indexed
22:01:02  <bterlson>yeah
22:01:06  <ljharb>so then yeah, i'd think december 1st
22:01:16  <ljharb>i'm pretty sure days roll over like that
22:01:18  <ljharb>^ maggiepint?
22:01:34  <maggiepint>HI what?
22:01:46  <ljharb>zibi's question above :-)
22:01:59  <bterlson>I feel like there was just a change here but I don't recall off hand
22:02:12  <maggiepint>IIRC the setters bubble but the parse doesn't
22:02:22  <maggiepint>but yeah, I'd have to read the latest too
22:02:34  <maggiepint>In Moment it would be invalid :-)
22:02:40  <zbraniecki>in SM it's invalid
22:03:15  <zbraniecki>I don't know if I should be surprised we don't have test262 for that
22:03:28  <ljharb>hm, safari says invalid too
22:03:28  <maggiepint>there's lots of test262 problems with date
22:03:52  <maggiepint>because there's no good way in Windows to set the OS time zone for testing purposes
22:04:06  <maggiepint>Unix based systems take a parameter
22:04:14  <jmdyck>"Unrecognizable Strings or dates containing illegal element values in the format String shall cause `Date.parse` to return *NaN*."
22:05:36  <jmdyck>But whether 11-31 is an illegal element value is up the implementation, looks like.
22:06:17  <zbraniecki>oooh, that's exciting. If V8 is wrong, and we'll try to fix it... node community may just kill us all?
22:06:23  <ljharb>oh sad, `new Date("2016-11-00 23:59")` also doesn't work in safari
22:06:42  <ljharb>using a day of zero to mean "last day of the previous month" is something i've used a bunch in other langs
22:07:03  <maggiepint>Illegal values (out-of-bounds as well as syntax errors) in a format string means that the format string is not a valid instance of this format.
22:07:13  <zbraniecki>ljharb: you still can - `new Date(2016, 10, 0, 23, 59)`
22:07:16  <maggiepint>that text is more applicable because the string in question is in ISO format, and that text applies to iso
22:07:21  <ljharb>ah, just not in string form, gotcha
22:07:27  <zbraniecki>yup
22:07:32  <ljharb>i'm unsad now
22:07:36  <zbraniecki>+1
22:07:50  <zbraniecki>my understanding of the spec is that as a string we expect an ISO format and ISO format has to be a valid date
22:08:05  <maggiepint>exactly
22:08:06  <zbraniecki>"2016-56-98 34:99" is not a valid ISO date
22:08:10  <ljharb>Febtober Eleventeenth
22:08:40  <jmdyck>"The function first attempts to parse the format of the String according to the rules (including extended years) called out in Date Time String Format [ISO]. If the String does not conform to that format the function may fall back to any implementation-specific heuristics or implementation-specific date formats."
22:08:57  <jmdyck>so it's up to implementation.
22:09:02  <zbraniecki>oh wow
22:09:02  <zbraniecki>so
22:09:06  <zbraniecki>V8 also rejects it
22:09:09  <ljharb>but if web reality is that it's invalid, then we can change that
22:09:18  <maggiepint>that text contradicts the text I posted though
22:09:19  <zbraniecki>rejects days greater than 31
22:09:28  <ljharb>"implementation-defined" means "whatever you want unless 2-3 out of 4 browsers does it the same" :=p
22:09:30  <ljharb>:-p
22:09:33  <zbraniecki>so new Date("2016-02-32 12:56"); is invalid, but new Date("2016-02-31 12:56"); is valid
22:09:40  <maggiepint>the implementation defined doesn't apply because the format IS ISO
22:09:43  <ljharb>ah
22:10:27  <maggiepint>I think the spec may be unclear
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22:10:43  <ljharb>maggiepint: that's unpossible
22:10:49  <zbraniecki>it has never happened!
22:11:06  <maggiepint>because 20.3.1.15Date Time String Format implies that something in ISO format, but with bad values, would be invalid
22:12:17  <zbraniecki>anyone has chakracore?
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22:12:38  <jmdyck>but if it's invalid ISO, then that's when imp-specific formats + heuristics kick in.
22:12:54  <maggiepint>is it?
22:13:02  <maggiepint>I hear what you're saying but that's not entirely clear to me
22:13:08  <zbraniecki>"When the time zone offset is absent, date-only forms are interpreted as a UTC time and date-time forms are interpreted as a local time.
22:13:08  <zbraniecki>Illegal values (out-of-bounds as well as syntax errors) in a format string means that the format string is not a valid instance of this format."
22:13:21  <zbraniecki>seems like a) the spec expects the date validation to use a timezone
22:13:32  <zbraniecki>and b) out-of-bounds is considered an illegal value
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22:14:04  <maggiepint>does "is not a valid version of this format" imply fallback to implementation semantics?
22:14:16  <maggiepint>or does it imply invalid date?
22:14:53  <zbraniecki>where's anything about implementation semantics?
22:15:22  <jmdyck>Date.parse says try ISO first, and if that doesn't work, try imp-spec fallbacks.
22:15:31  <maggiepint>The function first attempts to parse the format of the String according to the rules (including extended years) called out in Date Time String Format (20.3.1.15). If the String does not conform to that format the function may fall back to any implementation-specific heuristics or implementation-specific date formats.
22:15:43  <maggiepint>yeah - so I suppose it does imply that if it doesn't conform to ISO go to implementation
22:15:52  <maggiepint>barf
22:16:09  <maggiepint>if it's in ISO format, but the values within it are clearly out of range, it should go to invalid (as it does)
22:16:19  <maggiepint>otherwise how the heck can people validate dates besides manually?
22:16:33  <maggiepint>but yeah - that should be codified in the spec
22:17:23  <zbraniecki>is Date.parse and new Date(string) the same?
22:18:38  <maggiepint>yes
22:18:44  <maggiepint>https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/w0nrDEAn/
22:19:58  <zbraniecki>fuuun
22:20:14  <zbraniecki>I thought there's some TimeClip or sth like that put on that
22:20:15  <jmdyck>And actually, I don't think the spec clearly says that "2016-11-31T23:59" is *not* a valid instance of the Date Time String Format.
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22:20:58  <jmdyck>It doesn't have syntax errors, and the field values are all in-bounds.
22:21:28  <jmdyck>Nov 31st doesn't exist, but that's not clearly a factor.
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22:31:28  <zbraniecki>jmdyck: depends on what do we mean by "in bounds"
22:31:38  <zbraniecki>I can see an argument that "Feb 30th" is out of bounds
22:31:49  <zbraniecki>not sure why you think it's clear that it's not a factor
22:32:19  <jmdyck>I said "not clearly" not "clearly not"
22:33:09  <jmdyck>i.e., the spec does not make clear whether the non-existence of Nov 31st is a factor
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22:34:45  <zbraniecki>ah
22:34:51  <zbraniecki>sorry, misread your statement!
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22:38:51  <jmdyck>np
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23:19:37  <ljharb>leobalter rwaldron gsathya (or anyone else): are there any test262 helpers for testing the results of an iterator?
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23:23:40  <gsathya>i don't know, sorry
23:23:56  <gsathya>Domenic: ^
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23:55:18  <Domenic>Sorry don't know either
23:55:31  <ljharb>i can certainly write one, i suppose