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14:01:05  <rwaldron>https://github.com/tc39/Reflector/issues/79
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18:42:47  <littledan>[sourceless code] seems like a good solution to the problem Modable raised last time
18:43:38  <dilijev>rwaldron: dead link?
18:44:05  <rwaldron>dilijev huh?
18:44:12  <dilijev>https://github.com/tc39/Reflector/issues/79 is 404
18:44:20  <rwaldron>Oh, sorry... no. I accidentally posted a private repo link
18:44:24  <dilijev>ah
18:44:25  <dilijev>gotcha
18:44:26  <bterlson>as it hsould be
18:44:29  <bterlson>this is the public channel folks
18:44:40  <rwaldron>bterlson yes, I took my lashings.
18:44:42  <rwaldron>:P
18:44:45  <rwaldron>;)
18:45:03  <leobalter>we can't reveal our secrets yet
18:45:11  <leobalter>like types syntax
18:45:32  <bterlson>comprehensions are back!!
18:45:33  <leobalter>or extensions for the ternary operator
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18:45:51  <bterlson>quaternary operator gonna be so bomb
18:46:07  <leobalter>yes, it needs to support cancelation tokens
18:46:27  <ljharb>=====
18:46:49  <leobalter>quinary operators, w/ cancelation and finally
18:47:45  <leobalter>ljharb: does ===== results in true if the values have the same bit representation for NaN?
18:48:02  <ljharb>leobalter: you're in my head
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18:58:53  <dilijev>leobalter: nah you only need ==== for that
18:59:06  <dilijev>===== is if their quantum state is equivalent
19:13:28  <dilijev>Looking at https://github.com/gisenberg/proposal-nullary-coalescing and https://github.com/TC39/proposal-optional-chaining it seems like the Elvis operator should be included too, but a look at the semantics says that the most likely implementation in ES would make `let x = a ?: b` equivalent to `let x = a || b`
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19:14:42  <ljharb>is ?: the elvis operator, like in php?
19:14:55  <dilijev>yes
19:15:01  <ljharb>if so then yes, it's equivalent to `||`
19:15:08  <ljharb>`?:` would be great if `||` worked like `??` :-p
19:15:11  <dilijev>a ?: b means a if a is true, otherwise b
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19:15:17  <ljharb>that's not how it works in php
19:15:24  <ljharb>`a ?: b` in php is equivalent to `a ? a : b`
19:15:24  <dilijev>in ES would be a if a is truthy which is equiv to a || b
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19:15:47  <dilijev>> `a ?: b` in php is equivalent to `a ? a : b`
19:15:51  <dilijev>yes
19:15:51  <ljharb>it's because in php, `a || b` returns a boolean, whereas in JS it's value selection. so in php, `?:` is value selection, which is JS's || mechanics.
19:16:03  <ljharb>oh sorry i'd misread your comment
19:16:05  <dilijev>a if a is true, otherwise b
19:16:15  <dilijev>in ES s/true/truthy/
19:16:34  <dilijev>er, yeah i'm talking about ES || operator
19:16:38  <dilijev>not PHP
19:16:42  <ljharb>so yeah basically we need two operators - value selection "or", and nullary coalescing - in JS, that's `||` and `??`
19:16:47  <dilijev>right
19:17:01  <ljharb>in php they added "boolean or" as `||`, so they had to get value selection "or" with `?:`
19:17:05  <dilijev>right
19:17:06  <ljharb>they don't have nullary coalescing, i think
19:17:21  <dilijev>yeah i don't know much about php -- not sure i'd point to that as good language design in general
19:19:08  <dilijev>considering the general principle that everything can have side effects in JS, and the unweildiness of assigning multiple intermediate variables and doing the checking, these operators would be a huge boon
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19:19:25  <dilijev>^ imho
19:22:22  <ljharb>?? in particular, yes
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21:00:31  <dilijev>I think the combination of ?. and ?? really
21:01:00  <dilijev>also we look like we're very confused in this conversation because of all the question marks lol
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21:11:59  <ljharb>⸮⸮
21:13:31  <leobalter>¡
21:13:34  <leobalter>¡¡
21:17:11  <michaelficarra>0294 ; 003F ; MA # ( ʔ → ? ) LATIN LETTER GLOTTAL STOP → QUESTION MARK #
21:17:13  <michaelficarra>0241 ; 003F ; MA # ( Ɂ → ? ) LATIN CAPITAL LETTER GLOTTAL STOP → QUESTION MARK # →ʔ→
21:17:15  <michaelficarra>097D ; 003F ; MA # ( ॽ → ? ) DEVANAGARI LETTER GLOTTAL STOP → QUESTION MARK #
21:17:17  <michaelficarra>13AE ; 003F ; MA # ( Ꭾ → ? ) CHEROKEE LETTER HE → QUESTION MARK # →Ɂ→→ʔ→
21:17:19  <michaelficarra>A6EB ; 003F ; MA # ( ꛫ → ? ) BAMUM LETTER NTUU → QUESTION MARK # →ʔ→
21:18:59  <dilijev>https://github.com/tc39/agendas/blob/master/2017/07.md linked to http://wirfs-brock.com/allen/files/papers/standpats-asianplop2016.pdf -- interesting reading.
21:19:01  <dilijev>the bit in Section 4.1 :: Know the History
21:19:09  <dilijev>makes me wonder, what's the best place to review rejected proposals?
21:19:28  <dilijev>besides meeting minutes (which are difficult to consume when looking for specific information)
21:19:40  <michaelficarra>recently rejected proposals are still on github
21:19:51  <michaelficarra>ancient rejected proposals are on the old ecmascript wiki
21:20:08  <michaelficarra>and usually have a bunch of es-discuss mails associated
21:21:46  <ljharb>dilijev: i'd be happy to accept a PR adding older rejected proposals to the proposals repo - but ideally not ones that only have ecmascript wiki links :-)
21:22:18  <dilijev>maybe a link to the relevant wiki pages would actually be a good idea
21:22:42  <dilijev>This is the first time I'm hearing that things older then the ones listed on GitHub existed :)
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21:29:31  <ljharb>dilijev: github is basically new with ES6
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21:45:58  <dilijev>Is this the wiki you were referring to? http://tc39wiki.calculist.org/es6/
21:46:24  <dilijev>michaelficarra: ljharb: ^
21:46:37  <ljharb>ha, no
21:46:42  <ljharb>http://wiki.ecmascript.org
21:47:13  <michaelficarra>which has been down for a while, so you'll have to access it from archive.org
21:47:38  <dilijev>ah tuy
21:47:41  <dilijev>*ty
21:47:42  <michaelficarra>🙃
21:51:10  <dilijev>so i guess i'm in the right place now :P
21:51:11  <dilijev>https://web.archive.org/web/20161123164855/http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php
21:51:36  <michaelficarra>yes, unfortunately
21:51:52  <michaelficarra>there's still valuable info there
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