00:03:52  <Bakkot>"toString of a function can be eval'd to create a function" except when the function is a native function.
00:03:59  <Bakkot>is the intent.
00:04:16  <Bakkot>well, was the intent a long time ago. these days it's pretty much that way because that's the way it's always been.
00:07:47  <dilijev>fair enough
00:08:16  <dilijev> considering it'
00:08:43  <dilijev>'s not syntactically valid to be used to create a function in the case of native functions, it doesn't seem like it would be too bad to change it
00:09:22  <dilijev>although i suppose people are feature-detecting for polyfills by checking whether something is a /native code/ or not and could use any portion or variant of the valid syntax
00:10:21  <dilijev>regexes be like /function \w+(.*)\s*{\s*[\s*native\s+code\s*]\s*}/
00:10:34  <dilijev>oh sorry /function\s+\w+(.*)\s*{\s*[\s*native\s+code\s*]\s*}/
00:11:43  <dilijev>but anyway, it's not worth changing -- being able to use the toString to create a function that behaves the same as the native function (impossible anyway without referencing the native function itself) is a non-goal
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00:13:29  <dilijev>better to err if an eval is attempted on that string than to create a function which doesn't behave the same as expected
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00:23:32  <Bakkot>I am using toString to check if functions are native all over the place
00:24:09  <Bakkot>eval'ing will not generally create a function that behaves the same way anyway; it'll close over different things
01:00:17  <dilijev>that's a fair point
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03:56:42  <ljharb>(unless you know the function is portable, which there's nothing built in to tell you)
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19:43:32  <bterlson>https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/6krM2rwZ/image.png
19:43:44  <bterlson>thoughts on the metadata block anyone?
19:46:00  <bterlson>ljharb: ^
19:47:31  <TabAtkins>Seems reasonable, and similar to what's at the top of W3C specs. ^_^
19:49:05  <jmdyck>is "List" supposed to be a link?
19:50:17  <Havvy>bterlson: The paragraph should be cut off width-wise after the word "community".
19:50:39  <Havvy>And usually the #tc39 is a link.
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19:58:04  <jmdyck>the "File a New Issue" and "Create a New Pull Request" links might encourage people to do so without looking at existing issues/PRs or contribution guidelines?
20:09:36  <bterlson>jmdyck: perhaps, but I wanted to make it obvious that you can contribute such things
20:10:10  <bterlson>jmdyck: lol `list` is getting auto-linked :(
20:10:30  <jmdyck>heh
20:10:46  <jmdyck>making it lowercase would avoid that?
20:11:00  <bterlson>building now to check :)
20:11:15  <bterlson>Havvy: you mean a line break after "community"?
20:11:22  <bterlson>also is there a protocol handler for IRC typically?
20:11:35  <bterlson>TabAtkins: yep, it is "inspired" by W3C specs :)
20:11:44  <Havvy>bterlson: ircs://irc.freenode.net/tc39
20:12:12  <bterlson>ircs?
20:12:14  <bterlson>or just irc?
20:12:15  <Havvy>bterlson: Yes. Or width controls on the paragraph itself.
20:12:19  <Havvy>'s' is for secure.
20:12:25  <bterlson>ahh
20:12:37  <Havvy>Might need the :6697 for the ircs variant though.
20:13:10  <bterlson>6667 is my port
20:14:27  <bterlson>I don't have an actual desktop client so I can't test it
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20:15:00  <bterlson>lowercase L fixed `list`
20:15:07  <jmdyck>yay
20:15:24  <bterlson>Havvy: I think I prefer having the intro text be a single paragraph
20:16:02  <Havvy>bterlson: Same, but I don't think it should go all the way out to the other side of the block. It's the only thing that does.
20:16:11  <Havvy>So it feels very weird....
20:16:57  <bterlson>all the body copy does... maybe it'll look better if you see the intro text just below it going out to the same width
20:17:32  <bterlson>https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/XXXBVPwl/image.png
20:18:58  <Domenic>Not sure why everything is title case
20:19:05  <Domenic>Also that logo is hugw
20:19:37  <Domenic>Tiny one in the corner like other specs please
20:20:48  <bterlson>Domenic: is this design feedback or usability feedback? :-P
20:21:20  <Domenic>bterlson: usability for the logo
20:21:59  <Domenic>I've largely given up on the above-the-fold of specs being useful, although it always seems like a nice dream
20:22:03  <bterlson>Domenic: gotcha. I don't think it impacts usability. ~400px (depending on window width) to scroll past, no one reads the intro anyway
20:22:28  <Domenic>It's extraordinarily in your face
20:22:36  <Domenic>It looks like an ad placement
20:22:42  <Domenic>Like one of those giant interstiatials
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20:24:14  <bterlson>Domenic: I feel like you're underselling the fine details you can make out on the ECMA circle :-P
20:25:42  <bterlson>Domenic: consider this a trimmed down version of the original title page?
20:27:51  <Domenic>bterlson: quite happy if you hide it behind the print stylesheet, sure
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20:28:33  <TabAtkins>Still def unnecessary on the online version, tho.
20:29:02  <ljharb>bterlson: i think it's great!
20:29:09  <ljharb>also think the logo should be much smaller, like 100px tall tops
20:29:35  <Domenic>and in the corner, so it doesn't occupy vertical space
20:29:44  <ljharb>+1
20:29:58  <TabAtkins>Like in https://drafts.csswg.org/selectors/
20:30:08  <bterlson>The logo is necessary according to our overlords
20:30:20  <TabAtkins>Necessary, sure. Necessary to be hugormous, tho?
20:31:07  <bterlson>I don't see why 300px of extra scroll is a concern when the document is nearly 1 million pixels long
20:31:36  <TabAtkins>That's the sort of thinking that causes webpages to creep upwards of a megabyte on average. ^_^
20:31:44  <Domenic>Can I insert 300px of ads for my thing too?
20:31:49  <bterlson>it's an svg, it'll be same size regardless
20:32:01  <bterlson>Domenic: if your "ad" is for the SDO that develops the specification, yes!
20:32:13  <Domenic>My point is it's a bad UX no matter what the ad is for
20:32:24  <Domenic>This would not meet the acceptable ads standard
20:32:28  <bterlson>it's not an ad, it's a logo
20:32:37  <Domenic>It looks like an interstitial ad
20:33:49  <TabAtkins>It's useless and bad and you should feel bad. ^_^
20:33:58  <bterlson>it's about the same size as today's Google logo even :-P
20:34:22  <bterlson>I do feel bad but only because I like the big logo :-[
20:34:37  <Domenic>Yes, the landing page for the corporation can have the big logo. You should be the designer for ecma-international.org if you like big logos :)
20:35:13  <ljharb>bterlson: the overlords require a *big* logo? obv they require a logo
20:35:24  <TabAtkins>Look at how tiny the W3C logo is! It does its job and gets out of the way.
20:35:30  <bterlson>ljharb: just a logo
20:35:47  <ljharb>bterlson: ok cool, so we'd be able to make it smaller and/or scoot it out of the text flow?
20:36:00  <bterlson>it is of course technically possible
20:36:47  <ljharb>i'm not concerned with "the fold" - https://www.lukew.com/ff/entry.asp?1946 - but it's pretty imposing
20:39:41  <bterlson>the smaller you make your window the smaller the logo gets, fwiw ;)
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21:01:51  <Domenic>Oh no it made it into master?? :(
21:07:03  <Domenic>Plz upvote everyone https://github.com/tc39/ecma262/pull/951
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21:40:51  <cloudshu>i am enjoying the logo thread
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21:50:25  <bterlson>cloudshu: it's the best we've had in a while
21:51:29  <samth>I don't understand why anyone has expended any electrons complaining about the logo
21:51:56  <TabAtkins>samth: You're expending electrons complaining about the complaining about the logo, so the appeal should be self-evident. ^_^
21:52:29  <samth>i'm an academic, meta-commentary is in the job description
21:53:24  <TabAtkins>You're at least two metas up - I think style nits on the spec is the first meta.
21:53:30  <TabAtkins>And now I'm three metas up, top that!
22:36:48  <cloudshu>i would like to complain that i simply don't like the ecma logo
22:39:43  <bterlson>cloudshu: yeah it's not the best
22:48:37  <aklein>oo, it's no the agenda now!
22:48:42  <aklein>s/no/on/
22:58:20  <ljharb>srs bsns
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23:05:52  <dilijev>bterlson: I think it's a bit dense/wordy/link-heavy
23:06:10  <dilijev>bterlson: (the metadata)
23:06:40  <dilijev>I think github's interface is clear enough about how to get to/open issues/pulls -- and if you already know what these terms mean, you probably don't need the links
23:06:50  <dilijev>a better link to add would probably be the link to active proposals
23:07:42  <dilijev>also if this is to be rendered in PDFs, the URLs should be spelled out -- Test262 should instead be https://github.com/tc39/test262 like the link to the github for the spec is spelled out as https://github.com/tc39/ecma262
23:08:03  <dilijev>bterlson: are you the only editor that gets credit? :P
23:09:01  <bterlson>dilijev: point was to link to the current editor so people know who to blame for everything (I think, working off an issue from a long time ago :-P)
23:09:16  <dilijev>email, twitter, github handles should be written out as well instead of opaque links -- in this case the URLs are not necessary because people familiar with the sites will be able to find you from your spelled-out handle
23:10:08  <dilijev>.md -style : [@bterlson](https://twitter.com/bterlson) [GitHub/bterlson](https://github.com/bterlson)
23:10:28  <dilijev>or bterlson@GitHub or something... not sure what the non-URL form for GitHub handles typically looksl ike
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