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03:04:27  <ljharb>bterlson: so should i hold off on making the "finally" closure changes?
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10:25:03  <bterlson>littledan: anyone else: has anyone thought through what a decorator-based private-slot-backed friend class / protected fields might look like?
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10:25:45  <littledan>I have some ideas
10:26:05  <bterlson>so do I but I keep reading that protected is impossible
10:26:10  <littledan>you could use a class decorator to wrap up all the private names and store them in some object that you could put somewhere
10:26:13  <bterlson>maybe that is just referring to a "protected" keyword
10:27:17  <littledan>impossible? well, the part of the earlier protected proposal that scared me was using it as a way to scope private names. That feels kinda "with"-like. On top of that, as protected doesn't give any strong properties, it seemed like more trouble than it was worth
10:27:29  <bterlson>I agree
10:27:45  <bterlson>just going by what I was reading on the private state repo
10:27:50  <littledan>where?
10:28:52  <bterlson>I dunno I read many things in the last couple hours
10:29:08  <bterlson>it's irrelevant anyway, looks like we're on the same page :)
10:29:13  <littledan>well, I've seen some absolutist arguments that I disagree with
10:29:27  <littledan>(some might be in the FAQ)
10:29:45  <littledan>seems like lexically scoped names can solve some of the use cases but definitely not all of them
10:30:54  <bterlson>cloudshu: I think it's an improvement, although I would say just use prose unless you have multiple conditions to satisfy (many just have a single bullet point)
10:30:58  <bterlson>I will comment to this effect in a bit
10:31:11  <bterlson>littledan: roger that
10:34:04  <littledan>I was hoping that decorators would give us a reasonable framework for soft private/friends, but I need to write more code samples and spec text here
10:34:18  <littledan>I hope to focus on that next week; this week I need to do some Intl work
10:34:52  <littledan>my general plan is along the lines of https://github.com/littledan/proposal-unified-class-features
10:36:00  <littledan>it'd be great to get more input on that, but it's not in the easiest to read form at the moment
10:36:35  <bterlson>littledan: I'll write my friend class proposal
10:36:39  <littledan>(also I don't have an explainer on how it leads to a protected replacement; an outdated one is here: https://github.com/tc39/proposal-private-fields/blob/master/DECORATORS.md#protected-style-state-through-decorators-on-private-state
10:36:41  <littledan>yeah!
10:36:53  <bterlson>not sure it'll work yet but my idea is @Friend() class decorator which takes other classes as arguments
10:37:22  <littledan>hmm, how would that work with bilateral friends?
10:37:23  <bterlson>and either same decorator or another for members you want to share with friends
10:38:09  <bterlson>explain difficulty with bilateral friends?
10:39:46  <littledan>I mean, you'd want to pass in each class to the other ,but one of them won't be defined yet
10:39:56  <littledan>the `private #foo` declarations seem interesting, but maybe friend classes is a more intuitive granularity
10:40:25  <littledan>it's easy to write a class decorator that will share *everything*, but that's probably not what you usually want to do
10:40:47  <littledan>an ugly part is that I can't figure out how friends could use the `#` syntax
10:41:47  <bterlson>ahh, I was hoping to use module imports, otherwise perhaps another excuse for ref syntax :-P
10:42:09  <bterlson>(otherwise wrapping of friends in arrows could work)
10:42:27  <bterlson>anyway clearly I need to think through this more before I talk out of my rear about it ;)
10:45:15  <littledan>yeah, people have already complained about the circular class module import issue
10:45:35  <littledan>(I need a way to describe that problem with more buzzwords)
10:47:21  <littledan>anyway, interesting idea
10:47:39  <littledan>btw, as long as we're asking bterlson for feedback right around when he's giving his keynote, what do you think of this? https://github.com/bterlson/test262-harness/pull/74 (It's been useful for my coworker Xan to write class fields test262 tests)
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18:05:13  <cloudshu>bterlson: okay, will try with prose, thanks!
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22:33:26  <Bakkot>are we pretty settled on `import()` fuflilling the need for nested imports (https://github.com/benjamn/reify/blob/master/PROPOSAL.md), or is there some chance of that coming back?
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22:59:38  <ljharb>i don't think it totally fulfills the need for them