00:03:35  <TabAtkins>littledan: You can just use our instance! Might as well get all the web standards together.
01:03:02  <cloudshu>TabAtkins: what's your instance?
01:08:04  <TabAtkins>The one up above - social.csswg.org
02:04:28  * basicdaysquit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:17:33  * basicdaysjoined
03:53:44  * bradleymeckquit (Quit: bradleymeck)
04:02:13  * jmdyckquit (Quit: Leaving.)
04:08:15  * gskachkov_joined
04:18:31  * gskachkov_quit (Quit: gskachkov_)
06:29:45  * gskachkov_joined
07:42:41  * gskachkov_quit (Quit: gskachkov_)
07:59:47  * not-an-aardvarkjoined
08:15:56  * gskachkov_joined
08:27:26  * gskachkov_quit (Quit: gskachkov_)
08:28:14  * gskachkov_joined
10:25:09  * mylesborinsquit (Quit: farewell for now)
10:25:39  * mylesborinsjoined
10:28:54  * not-an-aardvarkquit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
10:44:26  * gskachkov_quit (Quit: gskachkov_)
10:45:38  <Kovensky>I was dismissing mastodon as a fad, but then my employer put an instance up... that kinda blew up
10:46:18  <Kovensky>not sure if it'll actually grow beyond the initial excitement, though; see google+
10:57:58  * gskachkov_joined
11:00:14  * gskachkov_quit (Client Quit)
11:08:16  * gskachkov_joined
11:13:02  * gskachkov_quit (Client Quit)
11:21:25  * gskachkov_joined
11:24:50  * gskachkov_quit (Client Quit)
11:43:07  * jmdyckjoined
11:44:15  * gskachkov_joined
11:48:04  * gskachkov_quit (Client Quit)
11:48:54  * gskachkov_joined
11:52:16  * gskachkov_quit (Client Quit)
11:56:10  * gskachkov_joined
12:01:16  * gskachkov_quit (Quit: gskachkov_)
12:41:04  * bradleymeckjoined
13:59:02  * bradleymeckquit (Quit: bradleymeck)
14:16:21  * bradleymeckjoined
15:02:42  * Fishrock123joined
15:23:48  * Fishrock123quit (Remote host closed the connection)
15:39:34  <jeffmo>bterlson: have you ever considered adding an index for all the various grammar params' purpose? (currently trying to figure out what "+In" means...)
15:41:22  <Bakkot>There's only a few
15:42:42  <Bakkot>+In means it's acceptable to have an unparenthesized 'a in b' in that production
15:43:03  <jeffmo>should be quick to summarize then :) (The problem is that I pay attention to them rarely enough that each time they matter/might matter I have to scour for a while to figure them out again)
15:43:11  <jeffmo>Bakkot: thanks
15:43:24  <Bakkot>the only place it's disabled, I'm pretty sure, is in the init of for loops, so that you can't have `for (a in b; c; d);`
15:43:55  <jeffmo>ah yes, makes sense
15:45:05  * Fishrock123joined
15:46:04  <Bakkot>(I guess also in the init of B.3.6 initialized for-in loops.)
16:13:22  <leobalter>where is the name property defined for a true anonmyous function in the specs? i.e: `Object.prototype.hasOwnProperty.call(function() {}, 'name'); // true`
16:13:56  <leobalter>its value is set as the empty string, but I can't find any call in the specs defining it. At least not with SetFunctionName
16:15:51  * not-an-aardvarkjoined
16:16:33  <leobalter>ok, https://tc39.github.io/ecma262/#sec-function-instances-name, this works for me
16:17:33  <Bakkot>leobalter: actually, that looks like anonymous functions should *not* have an own name property, no?
16:25:46  * bradleymeckquit (Quit: bradleymeck)
16:42:53  * gskachkov_joined
17:00:49  * gskachkov_quit (Quit: gskachkov_)
17:01:05  <ljharb>Bakkot: thats what the spec says but in practice its always an own property iirc
17:03:02  <Bakkot>ljharb: yeah, that's what it looks like; assuming I'm not missing something, might be worth fixing the spec
17:13:26  * gskachkov_joined
17:30:48  * gskachkov_quit (Quit: gskachkov_)
17:37:20  <aklein>Bakkot: +1 to fixing the spec here
17:42:47  <leobalter>I believe the spec is right, but confusing
17:43:10  <leobalter>It got me bikesheding over it for too long with Rick.
17:43:32  * gskachkov_joined
17:44:28  * gskachkov_quit (Client Quit)
17:44:46  <leobalter>"The Function instances have the following properties:" is defining own properties.
17:44:49  <leobalter>"Anonymous functions objects that do not have a contextual name associated with them by this specification do not have a name own property but inherit the name property of %FunctionPrototype%."
17:45:18  <leobalter>this is probably describing functions defined in the specs
17:45:25  <leobalter>that's my understanding
17:45:35  <leobalter>it's just unclear, ambiguous.
17:46:57  <leobalter>we can fix this phrase to refer to anonymous built-in functions
17:49:43  <aklein>leobalter: what do you mean "right"?
17:51:20  <aklein>leobalter: I'm pretty sure that spec bit you quoted says that anonymous functions don't have an own "name" property
17:53:35  * gskachkov_joined
18:02:50  <leobalter>I believe it means anonymous built-in functions, but the current text is not saying that
18:03:45  <leobalter>If I'm right, the 'built-in' part can be added as an editorial change, I guess. Let me check the tests for this, we should have some
18:10:46  * gskachkov_quit (Quit: gskachkov_)
18:25:03  <aklein>leobalter: sorry, I came in in the middle of this conversation. is your theory that built-in anonymous functions have no names, but author-generated ones do have names?
18:25:54  * gskachkov_joined
18:36:01  * gskachkov_quit (Quit: gskachkov_)
18:40:53  * gskachkov_joined
18:47:26  * gskachkov_quit (Quit: gskachkov_)
18:50:58  * gskachkov_joined
19:30:50  <ljharb>are there any built-in anonymous functions?
19:31:39  <caitp>builtin promise resolve/reject closures, and the "AsyncIteratorValueUnwrap" thing
19:31:42  <ljharb>altho i just opened up node and did `new Promise(function (y, n) { console.log(y.name, n.name); })` and it printed out "y" and "z", so that's super screwy
19:32:45  <caitp>I'm pretty sure that one isn't caused by the es2015 anonymous function naming stuff
19:32:46  <annevk>ljharb: wrapper for event handler attributes?
19:33:00  <ljharb>in safari, both have an empty string that is not an own property `new Promise(function (y, n) { console.log(1, y.name, y.hasOwnProperty('name'), 2, n.name, n.hasOwnProperty('name'), 3); })`
19:33:13  <ljharb>annevk: event handlers wouldn't be in ES, that's what i was asking about
19:34:14  * gskachkov_quit (Quit: gskachkov_)
19:34:21  <ljharb>ok so safari and firefox and chrome both have them as empty strings; safari has inherited but firefox and chrome have own.
19:34:29  <ljharb>and node has something totally odd
19:34:38  <ljharb>i'm curious what chakra says
19:35:06  * gskachkov_joined
19:37:02  <ljharb>we need an eshostbot
19:37:51  <leobalter>aklein: author generated does have an own .name, the value is the empty string. I need to check if all the runtimes are doing the same
19:37:55  <ljharb>but suffice to say it seems web compatible to go in either direction (own or inherited) for builtin functions
19:38:24  <leobalter>I'll collect the information from runtimes, whatever is happening I'll probably come with some sort of fix to that text
19:38:46  <leobalter>unles someone else wants to do it, my time is already short :)
19:39:30  <aklein>leobalter: where's the spec text that you think gives author-created anonymous functions names?
19:40:15  <leobalter>https://tc39.github.io/ecma262/#sec-function-instances-name
19:40:24  <leobalter>aklein: propeties of function instances
19:40:54  <aklein>ljharb: what's your test that shows it not being an own property in safari? my near-ToT build of JSC says otherwise
19:41:02  <aklein>eshost -e '(function(){}).hasOwnProperty("name")'
19:41:54  <aklein>leobalter: my reading of that second paragraph applies to all anonymous functions, not just built ins
19:42:27  <aklein>" a contextual name associated with them by this specification " seems to be trying to refer to the name inference stuff for AssignmentExpression, PropertyDefinition, etc
19:42:47  <aklein>but I agree that this spec text could be tightened up
19:42:54  <ljharb>aklein: new Promise(function (y, n) { console.log(1, y.name, y.hasOwnProperty('name'), 2, n.name, n.hasOwnProperty('name'), 3); })
19:43:47  <aklein>ljharb: oh, the promise functions. I'm interested in the general issue
19:44:18  <aklein>"(function(){}).hasOwnProperty('name')" is true in V8, JSC, and SpiderMonkey, false in Chakra
19:44:37  * rwaldron_joined
19:44:38  <leobalter>thanks for catching that in Chakra
19:44:54  <aklein>leobalter: was reminded by https://bugs.chromium.org/p/v8/issues/detail?id=4709
19:44:54  <leobalter>it saves loading my virtual machine
19:45:16  <aklein>and verified that what I said there is still the case
19:45:34  <ljharb>aklein: user-created anon functions have own properties, yes - but i don't know if that makes a difference to anyone
19:46:01  <leobalter>it's a test262 failure. That's great. Now I only need to find it :)
19:46:27  <leobalter>ljharb: it might make difference for me only, on test262
19:47:09  <leobalter>that's me against the whole world. If it's in the specs, I should assert it's passing.
19:47:54  <ljharb>sure, test262 would care :-)
19:49:34  <leobalter>ljharb: https://github.com/tc39/test262/blob/098f9ca3de5043c376e0cb68c14acf535ad8d66e/test/language/statements/empty/S12.3_A1.js
19:49:40  <ljharb>but i have a Function.prototype.name polyfill for IE 9-11 and i don't think it cares if it's an own property
19:50:46  <ljharb>leobalter: lol
19:52:44  <aklein>leobalter: https://cs.chromium.org/chromium/src/v8/test/test262/test262.status?l=63
19:53:07  <leobalter>can we have a bot to save/log the chat from this public channel? This is good to save as a reference too
19:53:28  <aklein>hah, I'll bet JSC removed the names from the Promise code just to pass these tests
19:53:36  <ljharb>leobalter: it's already logged by slurp
19:53:45  <leobalter>aklein: Thanks for this link! This is great to have! rwaldron_ ^^
19:58:54  * not-an-aardvarkquit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
20:13:44  <leobalter>aklein: https://github.com/tc39/test262/issues/988
20:14:24  * not-an-aardvarkjoined
20:37:21  * Fishrock123quit (Remote host closed the connection)
20:38:02  * Fishrock123joined
20:38:10  * Fishrock123quit (Remote host closed the connection)
20:41:00  * rwaldron_quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
21:16:56  * gskachkov_quit (Quit: gskachkov_)
21:39:19  <dilijev>eshost -e "new Promise(function (y, n) { console.log(1, y.name, y.hasOwnProperty('name'), 2, n.name, n.hasOwnProperty('name'), 3); })" shows `1 false 2 false 3` in chakracore
21:40:06  <dilijev>> "(function(){}).hasOwnProperty('name')" is true in V8, JSC, and SpiderMonkey, false in Chakra
21:40:31  <dilijev>aklein: leobalter: bterlson: shall we open a bug on chakracore for that?
21:41:21  <dilijev>from my reading of the spec Chakra does the right thing here -- or am I missing something
21:42:07  <aklein>dilijev: Chakra does the spec thing, everyone else does the legacy thing, yeah. not clear which direction we should go.
21:44:43  <dilijev>leobalter: isn't this the archive saved by slurp? http://logs.libuv.org/tc39/latest
21:45:23  <dilijev>I think that link is in the channel's /topic
21:45:33  <dilijev>I'm using irccloud so for me it's just displayed at the top
21:57:40  * caridy_joined
21:59:01  * Fishrock123joined
22:01:10  * caridyquit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:25:27  * Fishrock123quit (Remote host closed the connection)
22:26:07  * Fishrock123joined
22:26:14  * Fishrock123quit (Remote host closed the connection)
22:46:21  * Fishrock123joined
23:03:59  * Fishrock123quit (Remote host closed the connection)
23:44:19  * caridyjoined
23:44:20  * caridy_quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)