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03:53:30  <jfhbrook>substack: you still use x2x? do you know of a good idiot-proof wrapper for it? It looks like it requires multiple flags and I'm extremely low patience these days
03:57:10  <jfhbrook>it could be I'm overestimating the difficulty
04:00:04  <jfhbrook>actually more likely looking at http://fredrik.hubbe.net/x2vnc.html but similar API
04:11:27  <substack>now and then yes
04:11:49  <substack>ssh -Y 'x2x -to :0 -east' usually does the trick
04:15:13  <jfhbrook>yeah that doesn't sound so bad
04:15:40  <jfhbrook>so my macbook's hard disk shit its pants
04:15:50  <jfhbrook>I have a p good chance at partial data recovery if I invest some time and money
04:16:11  <jfhbrook>but I gotta repair my own disk and I'm kinda sick of the osx thing anyway
04:19:48  <jfhbrook>so I might switch to arch
04:19:55  <jfhbrook>and I'm gonna buy a windows pc for vidya p soon too
04:24:55  <substack>ARSC tried to give me a mac laptop but I knew better
04:27:17  <jfhbrook>lolol
04:27:23  <jfhbrook>been using this one since late 2013
04:27:39  <jfhbrook>it's served me reasonably well considering, though holy crap the repair bills
04:27:48  <jfhbrook>this happened 6 weeks after I swore off paying repair bills
04:27:54  <jfhbrook>thank god this is an actually doable home repair
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04:36:39  <substack>I've had to open up a lot of my laptops to make repairs but it's usually been easy enough
04:36:51  <substack>for a while I had a stack of x220s for parts
04:37:09  <jfhbrook>getting my keyboard replaced was 600 bucks
04:37:16  <substack>and in the desert when my drive finally gave out I bought one from best buy for $100 and swapped it in
04:37:16  <jfhbrook>I was so mad
04:37:34  <substack>yeah you could buy like 2 or 3 shitty computers for that much
04:37:51  <substack>I only buy cheap shitty computers and I mostly do webgl contracts now
04:38:43  <jfhbrook>nice
04:38:57  <jfhbrook>yeah like I said I've swore off apple repairs
04:39:16  <jfhbrook>the HD is DIYable luckily
04:39:24  <substack>one time I got my keyboard fixed in china for 30 yuan ($5)
04:39:29  <jfhbrook>you need some bizarro screwdrivers
04:39:34  <jfhbrook>dang
04:39:44  <substack>they just found a key that kinda fit and cut it to fit with a pair of scissors
04:39:50  <substack>totally worked
04:40:00  <jfhbrook>lol what
04:40:04  <jfhbrook>that's hilarious and also awesome
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14:19:28  <toddself>jfhbrook: i've been running arch for a year on my mac laptop (and a home pc)
14:19:35  <toddself>it bothers me when i haev to go back into mac os for anything
14:20:12  <toddself>stick with xwindows for now (not wayland) since screenscaling trackpad drivers are much better in x (with xrandr) than wayland
14:29:05  <jfhbrook>gotcha
14:29:10  <jfhbrook>yeah, I'm like
14:29:32  <jfhbrook>I went to osx because I felt like linux was a handful
14:29:50  <jfhbrook>and, like, using arch doesn't save me any money or stick it to the man or anything
14:30:00  <jfhbrook>so it's more about me taking the opportunity to start w/ a clean slate etc
14:31:06  <jfhbrook>also linux is kinda fun and I'll have a windows box to deal with some of the annoying bits
14:31:15  <jfhbrook>(gonna set up a media center situation)
14:32:08  <toddself>i set up a plex media server on a 6 year old mac mini i had with a few TB of external storage
14:32:28  <toddself>i went with arch after 6 months of ubuntu. it's a lot easier to maintain oddly
14:33:44  <jfhbrook>yeah, I've thought about xubuntu or fedora but I kinda wanna run awesome and going against the grain w/ those 2 distros is hard
14:33:59  <jfhbrook>my thing w/ arch is weekly potentially dangerous updates
14:34:04  <jfhbrook>but like, secondary machine
14:34:16  <toddself>the only issues i've had in the last year is with my nvidia card
14:34:24  <toddself>i installed the propreitary drivers from nvidia
14:34:32  <toddself>and occasionally i have to recompile them before video works
14:34:33  <jfhbrook>yeah surprisingly the macbook is embedded
14:34:46  <jfhbrook>you'd think at the price I paid that it'd come with some hardware video acceleration but no
14:34:51  <toddself>the macbook works well
14:34:57  <jfhbrook>it does have 16g ram and an i7
14:34:58  <toddself>i had to install the non-free broadcom driver to get wifi
14:35:13  <toddself>but it's a DKMS module so when the kernel updates it updates as well
14:35:14  <jfhbrook>yeah, I'm totally cool w/ proprietary drivers XD
14:35:28  <toddself>you will need a wire to get setup though
14:35:30  <jfhbrook>I had to do that with a belkin wireless gizmo
14:35:32  <toddself>or the driver on a flash drive
14:35:39  <toddself>since it doesn't come with the base install
14:35:44  <jfhbrook>makes sense
14:36:50  <toddself>i'm pretty impressed with the AUR as well
14:36:59  <toddself>i've had to install nothing from scratch
14:37:09  <toddself>there's always something available for what i'm trying to do
14:37:15  <toddself>including a zoom client (we use that for video)
14:37:41  <toddself>and the irccloud standalone client (i crash my browser all the time so i like a standalone)
14:39:41  <jfhbrook>yeah I used arch on /something/ for a few minutes
14:39:52  <jfhbrook>maybe I gave it a trial run on an old laptop?
14:40:20  <toddself>do it.
14:40:23  <jfhbrook>I too treat my browser pretty rough, it's why I'm going 32gb on ram on the coffee table pc
14:40:38  <toddself>yeah this box i'm on is 32gb and an i7
14:40:52  <jfhbrook>everyone's all "how are you using 32 gigs" and I'm like "bro"
14:41:05  <toddself>i run a single electron app, that uses about 20 of them
14:41:06  <toddself>hahahaha
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16:04:45  <jfhbrook>oh, toddself since we're talking about computer stuff you might know this too: disk recovery software for mac hard drives?
16:05:12  <toddself>what is the fs?
16:05:37  <jfhbrook>idk, whatever ships w/ osx
16:05:42  <jfhbrook>don't think it's encrypted
16:06:03  <toddself>hfs+ yeah
16:06:05  <jfhbrook>dead/dying disk though
16:06:21  <toddself>does it click yet?
16:06:35  <jfhbrook>nah, it boots and then eventually something reads a bad sector and it locks up
16:06:50  <jfhbrook>I think my chances are really good, if I don't keep fucking w/ it
16:06:52  <toddself>ah!
16:06:57  <jfhbrook>I think it's an SSD too
16:06:58  <toddself>is your boot volume?
16:07:26  <jfhbrook>boot volume?
16:07:32  <toddself>is it what your computer boots from?
16:07:36  <jfhbrook>yeah
16:07:54  <toddself>do you have a recovery partition (hold down option when you boot your mac and it'll show you all the EFS vols you can boot from)
16:07:56  <jfhbrook>basically, laptop just started acting real fucky one day and I was like, oh
16:08:03  <toddself>you can try using `diskutil verifyVolume`
16:08:03  <jfhbrook>option? hm
16:08:06  <toddself>yeah
16:08:25  <jfhbrook>yeah, I like, I ran the built in hw diagnostic and got https://www.instagram.com/p/BW5XN9HjJeh/?taken-by=jfhbrook
16:08:27  <toddself>you can verify while it's the active disk but better to boot from something else (a usb)
16:08:33  <toddself>oh
16:08:35  <toddself>um
16:10:08  <toddself>that's a bad failure
16:10:13  <jfhbrook>yeah
16:10:14  <toddself>:(
16:10:33  <jfhbrook>yeah like once I got there I just shut the laptop off and decided to deal with it later
16:10:48  <toddself>haha good choice. i've never dealt with recovery on SSD
16:10:54  <jfhbrook>like I said I got it to boot a few times and I think it could keep doing so, just not for long enough to do anything interesting
16:11:25  <toddself>yeah that's a pain. sorry i can't be more helpful
16:11:36  <jfhbrook>and I've had catastrophic data loss so many times that I just don't give a shit anymore
16:11:58  <toddself>yeah i was setting up a backup job for my media server to s3
16:11:59  <jfhbrook>a few passwords I have to reset and, uh, I might be fucked on wzrd.in support for a while
16:12:05  <toddself>and was all 'what else should i backup' and realized nothing else
16:12:12  <jfhbrook>I tried doing a backup of my keys to a thumb drive
16:12:21  <jfhbrook>but I tried the thumb drive yesterday and my work laptop won't even pick it up
16:12:25  <toddself>hahahahahahah
16:12:26  <jfhbrook>I think I spilled beer on it
16:12:35  <jfhbrook>it's sticky :|
16:12:36  <toddself>my keys are in my password vault
16:12:39  <toddself>if i lose my phone i'm fucked
16:12:41  <toddself>since that's 2FA
16:12:43  <jfhbrook>yeah
16:12:50  <toddself>but everything else is either replicable or like whatever i don't care
16:13:10  <jfhbrook>my phone is dying too, like its disk is fine /as far as I know/ but the silence switch is broken and the mic is so bad I just don't answer my phone unless I have the earbuds on hand
16:13:20  <jfhbrook>it's a 6
16:13:27  <jfhbrook>dunno what the new hotness for iphones is
16:13:33  <jfhbrook>but like, my phone has icloud backups so nbd
16:13:48  <jfhbrook>the only thing I think I'm gonna truly miss from osx is messages
16:14:01  <jfhbrook>like being able to read texts on a big screen is so handy
16:14:10  <toddself>yeah. i've thought about going to android
16:14:17  <toddself>but the lack of os updates for any android device leaves me worried
16:14:35  <jfhbrook>I actually really like my iphone, minus my hardware issues
16:14:37  <toddself>there are so many security issues on phones and like not getting updates for them, given the stuff on my phone
16:14:41  <jfhbrook>and, like, for some reason storage is a problem
16:14:55  <jfhbrook>hoping the newer iphones have more disk
16:15:11  <toddself>i finally got a 128gb phone last year
16:15:12  <toddself>and like
16:15:17  <jfhbrook>any idea when the iphone 8 is expected to ship?
16:15:18  <toddself>i'm so far from running out of space
16:15:21  <toddself>this fall
16:15:25  <jfhbrook>yeah word
16:15:27  <toddself>they usually come out sep/oct
16:15:28  <jfhbrook>so I should def hold out
16:15:34  <jfhbrook>get me one of them 8s
16:15:55  <toddself>yeah or an 7S or a Surfer's Paradise or whatever they call it
16:15:56  <toddself>lol
16:16:05  <jfhbrook>hah
16:16:09  <jfhbrook>yeah no I want the gadget
16:16:23  <jfhbrook>o/ lunch calls
16:17:02  <toddself>word
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20:16:37  <feross>noffle, mafintosh, substack: https://github.com/Maksims/web-udp-public
20:17:07  <feross>^ wa7son, yoshuawuyts, pfrazee
20:21:10  <pfrazee>feross: I'm +1 but (just for perspective) I'm not as passionate for that as I am for adopting dat into the web platform. Even with web-udp, we couldnt do what we do with dat:// in userland (the full HTTPS replacement)
20:21:53  <pfrazee>feross: the other thing I consider a bigger challenge is arranging connections between peers. WebRTC is imperfect and doesnt perform as well as udp would for games, but its biggest weakness is signalling. We've been talking pretty actively about a solution for that in #dat lately
20:22:41  <feross>hmm, i'm generally more for lower-level primitives in the web platform. dat support would be awesome (but super politically difficult and unlikely tbh)
20:23:02  <feross>webudp seems a lot more achievable since it has a lot of use cases for a lot of different projects, companies, etc
20:23:17  <pfrazee>feross: it's only politically difficult because we're at the beginning of advocacy
20:24:02  <feross>pfrazee: the problem i see is that even P2P people who should be on your side will come out against because they'll say "why not technology X instead?"
20:24:50  <pfrazee>feross: fragmentation is a short term problem. Eventually one of our protocols will become a standard - I think it should be Dat, but I'll go with whichever wins
20:25:13  <feross>fair enough, if there's a clear winner then this does become a lot easier
20:25:35  <feross>in the meantime, I expect a lot of why not IPFS SSB / Freenet / Tor onion sites / whatever the current BitTorrent attempt is / some new IETF/W3C spec?
20:25:50  <pfrazee>yeah that's 50% of my conversations on twitter or reddit
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20:26:46  <pfrazee>feross: to your point about lower level primitives, that's why I'm +1. If we can feel comfortable about the security, then I'm in favor. But I just dont see it as a replacement for integrating a BitTorrent variant into the web platform
20:28:00  <pfrazee>feross: I'd also point out that our installable web apps spec improves the overall security story of the web platform, and makes things like web udp more feasible (https://github.com/beakerbrowser/beaker/wiki/Installable-Web-Applications)
20:29:58  <feross>pfrazee: makes sense
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20:32:57  <pfrazee>yeah pulling back from my immediate projects - my position is that *one* of the BitTorrent variants should become a core Web Platform protocol for the Web to move forward, and that we should do that before we consider integrating any blockchains
20:33:27  <pfrazee>so if there's anything I can hammer home, it's that. The Web should have a BitTorrent native
21:43:11  <noffle>feross: nicely written doc
21:44:11  <noffle>https://github.com/noffle/web-udp
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22:22:29  <feross>noffle: yep, I know of your effort :)
22:23:30  <noffle>feross: beaker and dillo seem like really good 1st targets
22:24:40  <noffle>actually, dillo can't run JS can it? maybe not
22:50:47  <yoshuawuyts>feross: cool repo, would be fun if we folks got on board
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23:58:42  <pfrazee>we'd be up for a web-udp PR in beaker