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01:13:39  <akiva>jfhbrook: Sorry, didn't see that due to the lack of my name mention. Wayland is basically a new approach to graphics rendering without the archaic and massive cruft that has become X11. It was experimental for quite a while, but now is quite stable to use for most people. Although, since I like tiling window managers, namely bspwm these days, support is ... lacking, to say the least. There are several other
01:13:42  <akiva>compositors, etc. though
01:15:00  <jfhbrook>akiva: so it'd be the systemd of windowing systems if it weren't for the fact that nobody actually wanted to migrate their shell scripts to .conf files?
01:15:04  <jfhbrook>XD
01:16:29  <akiva>I suppose you don't like systemd ;) But, really, it's not so much like that. systemd (which in many ways I like) has sprawled to become a plethora of tools in a suite. Wayland is, by design, much less vast than X11 is. Although, you have to approach many things in new ways, because many tools depend on X, of course. There are packages that allow you to fall back to X, though.
01:16:43  <akiva>jfhbrook: It's pretty interesting, Wayland.
01:16:50  <jfhbrook>no I love systemd
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01:17:36  <jfhbrook>I'm not making my point well--systemd is the new hotness vs old and busted sysv but you have to rewrite all your shell scripts---it just turns out that isn't very hard and the end result is mostly better
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01:17:49  <jfhbrook>while rewriting gnome to work against wayland may or may not be a total shitshow
01:22:10  <akiva>jfhbrook: Ah, yeah. Actually, I hear Gnome and Wayland are extremely easy to do. But since I don't use a Desktop Environment at all, it's a little trickier for me. Yes, you are correct in that a lot of solutions we are used to putting into place for X, Y, and Z are now no longer suitable, but there are mostly Wayland solutions already in place. i am thinking here of simple tools like xscreensaver, xlock,
01:22:12  <akiva>xpointer, etc. Wayland has it's own compositor, though, so that is good. And adoption has grown widely. I think even Steam works with it now? Or mostly so...
01:22:22  <akiva>I don't have Steam, so I cannot say for sure.
01:23:31  <akiva>But I, too, like systemd. It makes me a little sad it's become so enormous, but it has a lot going for it. A lot of unity with regards to system ecosystem. Stuff like machinectl is pretty amazing, too. And the config files are quite lovely. Setting all the dependencies and being able to watch the whole thing execute as a tree....
01:29:30  <jfhbrook>yeah systemd's logging situation is less than amazing XD
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16:41:55  <wa7son>feross: you can always stay at my place when you come for the Christmas lunch
16:43:14  <wa7son>feross: I got plenty of space in my new castle
17:19:06  <yoshuawuyts>feross: !!!
17:52:35  <noffle>mafintosh: hey it's going to be dec 15 - dec 21 that I'll be in london, are you able to make it? dominic says he's coming for xmas and may overlap as well
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21:59:26  <substack>https://www.reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/5gl51e/a_modern_javascript_date_utility_library/daw1gul/
21:59:36  <substack>whoosh
22:17:35  <mafintosh>noffle: i can prob do somewhere around the 19th i think
22:17:43  <mafintosh>noffle: let me get back to you on that :)
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