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18:17:10  <mikolalysenko>goddamn react and babel makes setting up projects so fucking complicated
18:20:46  <dguttman>it’s pretty ridiculous
18:21:15  <mikolalysenko>gratuitous complexity and for what?
18:21:24  <dguttman>it didn’t used to be *so* bad, but now I think it’s completely off the rails
18:21:26  <mikolalysenko>so you can use some angle brackets in your js code?
18:21:58  <dguttman>I think the only thing that is somewhat arguably worth it is hot module reloading
18:22:06  <mikolalysenko>even that is dubious
18:22:06  <dguttman>but even then
18:22:08  <dguttman>yeah
18:22:16  <mikolalysenko>I've set it up a few times, never quite works
18:22:30  <feross>mikolalysenko: why don't you just not include it?
18:22:33  <mikolalysenko>there are always edge cases where it fails, like you change a reducer or a component state or something and it all crashes
18:22:39  <feross>what's making you use it?
18:22:45  <mikolalysenko>feross: gotta get paid
18:22:47  <mikolalysenko>this is for a client
18:22:58  <feross>they're forcing you to use babel?
18:23:22  <mikolalysenko>they've already got a lot invested in it
18:23:38  <mikolalysenko>changing away is probably too much trouble
18:23:54  <mikolalysenko>and as a contractor, it isn't my role to tell them what to do here
18:23:59  <dguttman>mikolalysenko: are they committed to react or react + babel?
18:24:15  <mikolalysenko>both
18:24:36  <dguttman>=(
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18:25:09  <dguttman>react + a simple jsx browserify transform is pretty easy
18:25:15  <mikolalysenko>this is not the end of the world by any means
18:25:31  <dguttman>but once babel 6+ or whatever is in the picture
18:25:51  <dguttman>are you using webpack too?
18:25:56  <mikolalysenko>thank god no
18:26:04  <mikolalysenko>I've used it in the past, webpack is horrible
18:26:14  <mikolalysenko>it is all browserify fortunately
18:30:03  <dguttman>for a good example of the madness: https://www.fullstackreact.com/articles/react-tutorial-cloning-yelp/
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18:30:15  <dguttman>count how many times you have to hit “page down” before getting to the actual writing of the code
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18:32:06  <dguttman>I count 52 before seeing “hello world"
18:34:39  <mikolalysenko>damn it
18:34:56  <mikolalysenko>so here is the latest fun thing that is wasting my time
18:35:12  <mikolalysenko>d3 uses all these cute utf symbols in its modules like this: https://github.com/d3/d3-geo-projection/blob/1a9cbdc039f68b8e871740e31a1375c9d3a71269/src/eckert2.js#L3
18:35:39  <mikolalysenko>and right now they're all getting screwed up somehow in babel/electron and causing everything to break
18:35:59  <mikolalysenko>I probably need to set a bom somewhere but I have no idea where the fuck in this convoluted pipeline it needs to go
18:36:04  <dguttman>I actually laughed out loud at that
18:36:14  <dguttman>and felt terrible for doing so
18:36:51  <mikolalysenko>why is all this stuff so terrible? and why does it feel like it keeps getting worse?
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18:36:59  <dguttman>heat death
18:38:26  <mikolalysenko>I don't know what compels people to do this stuff. it doesn't even make life easier using those crazy symbols
18:38:42  <mikolalysenko>you have to probably copy and paste them from some table or else use a goddamn martian keyboard
18:39:40  <dguttman>haha
18:41:25  <dguttman>global browserify transform to turn them back into words?
18:41:50  <mikolalysenko>I could probably regex it
18:42:03  <mikolalysenko>maybe sed is the solution
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21:07:22  <mafintosh>mikolalysenko: why do they use those symbols? that seems hard to contribute to
21:07:35  <mikolalysenko>???
21:07:46  <mikolalysenko>mafintosh: I didn't write that, don't ask me
21:08:15  <mafintosh>ah
21:08:23  <mikolalysenko>that is part of d3
21:08:31  <mikolalysenko>stuff like that is all over the code in there
21:30:44  <pfraze>I thought this was interesting, some people here might also: chrome stores all of its site & user data using sqlite, leveldb, and json files
21:31:47  <pfraze>cookies and localstorage are in sqlite
21:32:14  <pfraze>indexdb is leveldb
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