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16:32:44  <noffle>feross: congrats!
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20:22:51  <feross>noffle: thanks!
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20:42:43  <feross>look at this proposal to bring the ws package into core: https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/pull/6
20:43:00  <feross>everyone loves centralization so much
20:43:14  <feross>they don't understand the value of small core + userland innovation
20:43:51  <substack>the experience is you `npm install ws` then `require('ws')`
20:46:23  <noffle>what does having ws core accomplish? skipping the 'npm i' step? it adds more responsibility onto node core instead of the larger / better resourced community
20:46:35  <noffle>unless core thinks they can commit to it + to a higher standard than the community
20:46:37  <jfhbrook>I mean
20:46:45  <jfhbrook>websockets in core isn't the **worst** idea
20:46:48  <jfhbrook>like, http's in core
20:46:58  <jfhbrook>I don't hear anyone seriously suggesting that putting it there was a mistake
20:47:15  <jfhbrook>and if they were, I'm not sure I'd take *them* seriously
20:50:17  <substack>I think a core version of ws would be some extra http methods
20:50:35  <substack>server.on('upgrade', function (stream) {})
20:51:06  <substack>or if (req.headers.upgrade) { var stream = res.upgrade() }
20:51:31  <jfhbrook>yeah I don't mean to suggest that cp ../ws/* ./lib/ is a good idea
20:52:04  <jfhbrook>maybe res.upgrade('to websocket magicks, obviously');
20:52:49  <timoxley>feross: is there innovation to be had in 'ws' though
20:54:38  <feross>timoxley: maybe not, but that's not a sufficient reason to add something to core. otherwise, we should add `once`, `rimraf`, and lots more
20:54:52  <timoxley>good point
20:55:05  <feross>but i guess that given that we already have http and ws is an extension of that
20:55:37  <timoxley>feross: what about sse then
20:55:53  <timoxley>also a standard
20:55:59  <feross>ws in core is not the worst idea, but i don't think that particular EPS had good reasons - "it will help my php shop adopt node"
20:56:17  <timoxley>right
20:56:38  <jfhbrook>what are they on windows?
20:56:38  <feross>timoxley: lol yeah it's a slippery slope
20:57:09  <timoxley>these new 'top level packages' perhaps provides a less binary approach
20:57:16  <feross>yeah
20:58:52  <timoxley>feross: is there a maximum term length?
20:59:01  <timoxley>for your community role
20:59:26  <feross>timoxley: i don't think so - didn't read about one anywhere
20:59:52  <feross>timoxley: but it's probably a good idea to limit to 1-2 terms or something
21:00:44  <timoxley>agree
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