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07:43:05  <substack>ug so much browserify misinformation floating around
07:43:15  <substack>drafting a proper response
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08:04:34  <thealphanerd>substack: what type?
08:05:08  <substack>mostly in the form of webpack comparisons
08:05:22  <substack>everything webpack does can be done in browserify userland >_<
08:05:53  <thealphanerd>lol
08:05:53  <thealphanerd>but substack
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08:06:25  <thealphanerd>…meh I’ve got nothing
08:06:27  <substack>and browserify cares way more about making things like transforms operate as locally as possible
08:06:40  <substack>which nothing else even gives a shit about
08:06:43  <substack>so frustrating
08:06:56  <thealphanerd>too much config for the end user in webpack for me
08:07:05  <substack>ugh seriously
08:07:09  <thealphanerd>when I finally understood that you can encapsulate transforms in the module
08:07:18  <thealphanerd>so users never have to worry about it
08:07:23  <substack>and it's all in code instantiating constructors from webpack core or something weird like that
08:07:35  <substack>but there is nothing good for beginners about any of this
08:07:41  <substack>webpack is just the new shiny thing
08:07:58  <substack>yes exactly @ encapsulating transorms!
08:08:14  <thealphanerd>I like this comparison
08:08:16  <thealphanerd>http://stackshare.io/browserify
08:08:20  <thealphanerd>http://stackshare.io/webpack
08:08:22  <substack>webpack is very much of the persuasion that application authors should have complete control over every fucking stupid detail
08:08:27  <substack>and I think that's wrong
08:09:31  <substack>I think it's best to make decisions as locally as possible
08:10:09  <thealphanerd>famous + deamdify was a great example for me
08:10:22  <thealphanerd>all of a sudden we didn’t have to publish a common version anymore
08:10:32  <thealphanerd>or maintain the code to do all the CI of that
08:10:38  <thealphanerd>it will just work
08:10:46  <thealphanerd>although someone got in a flamewar with me over the decision
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08:11:03  <thealphanerd>arguing that it should be a user land decision, and to publish common to npm
08:11:47  <substack>well I can sort of see both sides to that particular argument
08:11:51  <thealphanerd>exactly
08:11:53  <thealphanerd>I cantoo
08:11:54  <thealphanerd>https://github.com/Famous/famous/issues/543
08:11:56  <thealphanerd>this was the thread
08:12:41  <substack>oh that's pretty legit if you can still require the components separately
08:12:58  <thealphanerd>once he started calling me rude I just disengaged
08:13:16  <substack>it might be nice if require('famous') did something reasonable but whatevs
08:13:35  <substack>I think it would be even better if the sub-components had their own top-level names
08:13:44  <substack>but it's not too bad if they don't
08:13:47  <thealphanerd>there is so much shit going on right now
08:13:51  <thealphanerd>engine might be its own repo
08:14:07  <substack>I think compared to how it used to be, you've got it in a much better place
08:14:12  <thealphanerd>thanks!
08:14:23  <thealphanerd>I havn’t been doing much work on the code base
08:14:29  <thealphanerd>just in how it can be consumed
08:15:50  <thealphanerd>I also was a not a fan of the pre-emptive optimization
08:15:52  <thealphanerd>so you want to use gulp
08:15:55  <thealphanerd>so your build is slow
08:15:56  <thealphanerd>sorry dude
08:15:56  <thealphanerd>cache dat
08:18:48  <substack>ugh gulp
08:19:08  <substack>gulp and karma seem to result in so much hair-pulling
08:19:14  <substack>I don't understand the appeal
08:19:49  <thealphanerd>https://github.com/wearefractal/vinyl-fs
08:19:51  <thealphanerd>that is the appeal
08:20:57  * substackdoesn't get it
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08:21:29  <substack>because I can just whip up a package.json scripts field that does everything I need in no time from scratch
08:21:59  <thealphanerd>I mostly meant better streaming filesystem
08:22:05  <thealphanerd>vinyl-fs is super same
08:22:11  <thealphanerd>that interface is the best part of gulp
08:22:18  <thealphanerd>s/same/sane
08:23:21  <substack>but, you can just do all of that with node core
08:23:47  <substack>with just ordinary binary streams, not the weirdo object streams that vinyl-fs provides
08:24:46  <thealphanerd>the interface is different for globbing + filtering
08:24:52  <thealphanerd>plus the object offer a convinience
08:25:02  <thealphanerd>I use findit for a bunch of things
08:25:15  <thealphanerd>but I used vinyl-fs for an aws wrapper that was super tiny
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10:09:19  <substack>ok there https://gist.github.com/substack/68f8d502be42d5cd4942
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11:22:26  <owen1>substack: some text is missing here https://gist.github.com/substack/68f8d502be42d5cd4942#composability
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20:09:59  <substack>owen1: thanks, fixed it
20:10:26  <substack>so the other thing is I think I need to make a proof of concept for hot module replacement
20:10:31  <substack>people are really convinced by that gimmick
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