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00:04:54  <domanic>mk30, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_17LsqZOqk
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02:07:39  <AvianFlu>EIGHT MILLION POUNDS OF SQUID
02:07:40  <LOUDBOT>/ \ ROUND!
02:07:54  <AvianFlu>LOUDBOT, that was disappointing
02:07:54  <LOUDBOT>AvianFlu: I DON'T WANT TO GO TO CLASS, I WANT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS SO I DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING I DON'T WANT TO DO ANYMORE
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03:08:34  <domanic>ogd, yo are you still at oaklandjs?
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04:13:42  <domanic>pfraze, you test/feed.js is throwing for me, for you?
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05:47:30  <pfraze>domanic, yeah. I'm still trying to debug that. Should we branch for failing tests?
05:48:10  <domanic>pfraze, I think I have just fixed it. you found a bug in level-sublevel
05:49:46  <pfraze>domanic, good deal
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05:54:58  <domanic>pfraze, okay pull the latest and update the deps, the test passes now
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06:13:48  <pfraze>domanic, is pull-stream now at 2.24.1? The repo says 2.24.0, but ssb is importing at 2.24.1 and npm install fails
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19:36:23  <domanic>creationix, let me check I understand your uvrun tweet -
19:36:49  <creationix>ok
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19:37:11  <domanic>you can now tell when event loop is empty so you can start a test, completely wait for it to finish, and then instead of exiting and then run the next test?
19:37:18  <creationix>yep
19:37:25  <creationix>assumming the test is the only thing in the event loop
19:37:37  <mikolalysenko>ahahaha: https://www.meteor.com/blog/2014/08/28/isobuild-why-meteor-created-a-new-package-system
19:38:05  <domanic>oh! so runOnce() allows only ONE thing to run on the loop?
19:38:14  <creationix>well, one tick of the loop
19:38:20  <creationix>libuv actually can emit several events in one tick
19:38:29  <creationix>I wish it was just one event
19:38:33  <domanic>oh okay
19:38:45  <domanic>this reminds me of some stuff I have been exploring recently
19:39:02  <domanic>did i show you this: https://github.com/dominictarr/interleavings ?
19:39:20  <creationix>run_once means to block till at least one event happens
19:39:38  <domanic>it's basically an computer assisted race condition finder
19:40:30  <creationix>domanic: nice
19:43:30  <domanic>creationix, imagine if you had a whole platform that could be put into deterministic mode
19:44:02  <creationix>right, virtualize everything, prng, clock, network, etc
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19:44:03  <domanic>and then you could run a program though *all possible worlds* (or a statistical sampling of them)
19:44:21  <domanic>and then collect all the cases where it failed
19:45:07  <domanic>then analyze the event orderings in those runs, compare to the successful runs, showing the race conditions
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19:49:29  <domanic>Imagine if you could also, like, take your system and simulate it - re run logs through it, simulating (say) 6 months worth of running in production
19:49:43  <domanic>...maybe overnight
19:50:10  <pfraze>domanic, would you need scheduling control over libuv?
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19:50:30  <domanic>considering that 1 hour of developer time is worth about 10000 hours of computer time, if you could save a few hours this would be totally worth it
19:50:57  <domanic>pfraze, yeah - you'd probably need this to be designed from scratch into the os or something
19:51:37  <domanic>I didn't think it could be put into something like node until i saw creationix's module...
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19:51:49  <domanic>putting it in runtime.js should be a definite possibilty though
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19:53:47  <creationix>as my module shows, it’s perfectly safe to expose libuv to js. You could bind all of libuv including multiple event loops if you wanted.
19:53:58  <creationix>but only the default libuv event loop will play with node’s events
19:55:50  <pfraze>creationix, you think domanic's scheduling randomizer could be implemented with it?
19:56:17  <creationix>not sure that could be done with the libuv public API alone
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19:56:27  <creationix>though I have on occasion exposed libuv private APIs to scripting languages
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19:57:22  <domanic>creationix, pfraze first of all you need to reorder the queue in the events loop
19:57:45  <domanic>but also the kernel will introduce indeterminism
20:00:51  <pfraze>domanic then perhaps focus on the random sampling and dump the failing configurations for replay
20:01:53  <domanic>pfraze, but the tricky part is you have to replay them with the events in the same order
20:02:27  <domanic>hmm, if you can't do that maybe you just need to be a bit cleverer
20:02:38  <domanic>and next time look for the same partial orderings?
20:07:47  <pfraze>domanic, results should depend on the data in the events too. Perfect ordering replays could produce inconsistent results because the data changes
20:08:14  <domanic>pfraze, but not if it's deterministic
20:08:28  <domanic>because then the events should have the same data
20:08:49  <pfraze>domanic, that would be an application constraint, wouldn't it? No calls to random() or new Date()
20:09:01  <domanic>(you'd need to control time here, of course, and have a closed system with no io to external systems)
20:09:08  <domanic>correct
20:09:21  <pfraze>domanic, it would be amazing to have that level of containment
20:09:38  <domanic>pfraze, by the way, node has a command line option to set the seed for Math.random
20:09:54  <pfraze>domanic, noted
20:10:25  <domanic>but in interleavings I just use a rng module and expect disipline from the user (who so far is only me, as far as I know ;)
20:12:17  <domanic>pfraze, regarding executable communication languages: https://twitter.com/swannodette/status/505061635338547200
20:12:46  <pfraze>domanic, did we talk about this? I was toying with the idea of sending javascript as a messaging format the other day
20:13:55  <domanic>pfraze, yeah we talked about a scifi spoken language that is also a programming language
20:14:43  <pfraze>domanic, oh yes, different topic. Bookmarked
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20:30:48  <chrisdickinson>domanic: substack: thoughts on https://gist.github.com/chrisdickinson/3230b2b1fa4e1046e1c1 ? it's related to the "error forwarding" pipelineError stuff from before.
20:33:22  * chrisdickinsonhops on a plane!
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20:51:11  <domanic>chrisdickinson, replied https://gist.github.com/chrisdickinson/3230b2b1fa4e1046e1c1#comment-1290375
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