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00:56:47  <mmckegg>substack: that place is awesome. If you're gonna stick around for a while I might join you in an hr or so.
00:58:39  <Raynos>has anyone written the inverse to minimist
00:58:50  <Raynos>it takes an object and outputs a string for argv
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01:40:38  <mmckegg>substack: you still hacking downtown?
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01:44:25  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 184.106.99.27 (dev-ie7-3)
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03:12:54  <Raynos>I have a thingy on reddit by accident ( http://www.reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/2c8954/a_truly_modular_frontend_framework_like_react_but/ )
03:12:56  <Raynos>let's upboat it !
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04:49:55  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 184.106.106.66(dev-ie7-1)
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05:49:15  <substack>mikolalysenko: go sounds terrifying after reading your link about haunts
05:55:19  <mikolalysenko>substack: yeah, it pretty well illustrates why I am not excited about go
05:57:48  <mikolalysenko>the situation could change though if they get their act together and make a real package manager
05:58:03  <mikolalysenko>though my current understanding is that this would be very difficult due to the way go manages symbols
05:58:15  <mikolalysenko>you can't do things like import multiple copies of a library safely :(
05:58:32  <substack>and from what I've read the people in charge of go core think everything is fine and how npm does it is wrong
05:58:46  <substack>I ran into somebody at toorcamp who thought that way
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05:59:14  <substack>they had some bizarre argument about how it "violates posix" to have a nested dependency structure
05:59:22  <mikolalysenko>???
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05:59:42  <substack>people have some really kooky ideas about how dependencies should work, I don't know
05:59:48  <substack>they probably think our ideas are just as weird
05:59:56  <mikolalysenko>I haven't met anyone who has really defended this aspect, though I have run into a few people who are in love with the idea of using urls for packages
06:00:17  <substack>yes I've met those people too
06:00:22  <mikolalysenko>and consider this to be a great innovation over "central" or "non-distributed" package managers like npm
06:00:51  <mikolalysenko>though I think that the haunts story is a pretty good illustration of why urls don't work for naming packages
06:01:16  <mikolalysenko>central authority is one way to make it work, though I could also imagine a distributed naming service too
06:01:27  <mikolalysenko>like something using namecoin/bitcoin etc.
06:01:34  <substack>hashes could work combined with semver for a distributed package system
06:01:38  <mikolalysenko>basically names are a scarce resource and you need an economy to make it work
06:01:51  <mikolalysenko>or central authority/benevolent dictator
06:02:33  <substack>npm is working well enough at present although I'm open to alternate approaches, especially if there is a good way to bridge alt systems with current npm in parallel
06:02:58  <substack>but new systems have to be at least as good as npm in many ways and superior in new ways to make them worthwhile
06:03:07  <mikolalysenko>I think more distributed naming could be interesting, though it would have both advantages in disadvantages
06:03:36  <substack>it sucks that it's very hard to communicate package aesthetics
06:03:38  <mikolalysenko>the main advantage is more robustness/availability, the disadvantage is you can't use moderation to stop squatters/vandals
06:03:51  <substack>particularly to the biojs folks when there could be so much interop
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06:04:23  <mikolalysenko>oh, speaking of software engineering stuff, did you see this video link I posted? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ5_u8Lgvyk
06:04:30  <mikolalysenko>it is about an hour long, but definitely worth the watch
06:05:00  <substack>cool
06:05:09  <substack>I saw it but wasn't on good enough internet to watch
06:05:11  <substack>but now I am
06:05:15  <mikolalysenko>one of the interesting points he makes there is the idea of having a way to drill-down into apis for the purposes of improving reusability
06:05:23  <mikolalysenko>which you get automatically with small modules
06:05:49  <mikolalysenko>also there were some interesting parallels there to situation with voxel.js/three.js
06:06:02  <mikolalysenko>though maybe I am projecting my own biases onto this too much
06:12:22  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 36]
06:19:38  <substack>more generally, this is the dynamic at play for stuff like biojs vs bionode: http://shirky.com/writings/evolve.html
06:19:59  <substack>bionode/ndarray/gl-modules is great because publishing requires 0 coordination
06:20:15  <substack>so somebody with an idea can just realize that idea without going through gatekeepers
06:20:56  <substack>it's messier in the short to medium term but you get much more content right away and is much more robust against waning interest
06:23:20  <mikolalysenko>yeah, though one thing I have been experimenting with lately is more shared ownership for systems of modules
06:24:05  <mikolalysenko>a kind of bad thing that can happen with many small modules is that authors can quit, leaving whole ecosystems in disarray
06:24:14  <mikolalysenko>(case and point tj holowaychuk)
06:24:38  <mikolalysenko>so, the mitigation would be to create organizations or shared ownership for groups of modules
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07:39:25  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 184.106.99.27(dev-ie7-3)
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08:00:11  <substack>mikolalysenko: the process at 45m about writing the usage first is something I do all the time
08:00:44  <substack>that's also the process I use for finding legit npm modules
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09:37:58  <guybrush>mikolalysenko: regarding the diamond dependency problem and golang https://gist.github.com/guybrush/271ce34c9cdcc1211766
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09:41:39  <guybrush>i think we should not think about npm being the solution while stopping to think about new ways
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10:49:56  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 184.106.106.66(dev-ie7-1)
11:02:02  <mmckegg>ahdinosaur: just realised ndarray uses eval (in the form of "new Function") so that means it won't work in a chrome app :(
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13:39:26  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 184.106.99.27(dev-ie7-3)
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16:49:56  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 184.106.106.66(dev-ie7-1)
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17:27:48  <guybrush>obj[1,2,3] what is this in es6? i mean what is it called
17:28:24  <guybrush>i just looked at this code and was like WTF haha https://github.com/wwwtyro/brownie.js/blob/master/src/voxel-manager.js#L14
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17:29:08  <guybrush>like you can just use an object as key?
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17:34:09  <gildean>guybrush: there're two angle-brackets
17:34:43  <gildean>obj[[1,2,3]] would be like obj[[1,2,3].toString()]
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17:34:46  <gildean>i think
17:34:59  <guybrush>hmmmm ok
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19:39:27  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 184.106.99.27(dev-ie7-3)
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20:57:58  <thlorenz>paul_irish: wondering if chrome://tracing is going away since this is in dev tools http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/developertools/revolutions2013/#toc-flame-chart
20:58:17  <thlorenz>also as I mentioned on the twitters chrome://tracing stopped working for me about 10 days ago
20:59:03  <thlorenz>is there a way to see v8 actions in the cpu profiler i.e. GC.scavenge and such?
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21:03:34  <thlorenz>I did turn on "Record heap allocation stack traces" but still see no GC like I did in chrome://tracing
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22:31:44  <guybrush>hey mikolalysenko i think ndarray-ops should depend on cwise now? so it can use the transform
22:31:58  <guybrush>instead of cwise-compiler
22:33:46  <mikolalysenko>guybrush: yes, it should though there is currently a bug in static-module that prevents this from working 100%
22:33:58  <mikolalysenko>also the code generation in ndarray-ops doesn't quite work with cwise directly yet
22:33:59  <guybrush>ah
22:34:18  <mikolalysenko>it should happen eventually though, will just take some time
22:34:41  <guybrush>im currently looking at `browserify client.js --list` to find duplicates
22:35:05  <guybrush>its actually not that bad, only a bunch of node_modules/cwise-compiler/* :D
22:35:21  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) jjandrain@... successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
22:35:21  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
22:37:50  <guybrush>anyway even with some things duplicate its really not bad since everything is such a small module
22:38:09  <guybrush>small modules is winning everywhere
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22:49:57  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 184.106.106.66(dev-ie7-1)
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23:12:22  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 1, free: 28]
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