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| <owen1> | found it |
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| <owen1> | but the website seems down |
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| <owen1> | http://2014.jsconf.cn/ |
| 00:46:46
| <mikolalysenko> | substack: do you mind if I just merge this in? https://github.com/substack/ndarray-linear-solve/pull/4 |
| 00:47:25
| <mikolalysenko> | many applications of linear solvers (eg linear programming, etc) require calling them in a loop repeatedly |
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| <mikolalysenko> | it makes sense I think to make no-allocation the default and only mode of operation |
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| <substack> | looks good |
| 00:48:02
| <mikolalysenko> | though thinking about it, maybe I would move the X argument to the first element of the array |
| 00:48:17
| <mikolalysenko> | err I mean the first argument |
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| <mikolalysenko> | substack: done |
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| <mikolalysenko> | eventually the simple lu decomposition needs to be replaced with something that does partial pivoting... |
| 00:54:02
| <mikolalysenko> | and we would still probably need qr decomposition for rectangular matrices/least squares problems |
| 00:54:49
| <mikolalysenko> | and maybe add cholesky for psd matrices |
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| <timoxley_> | ogd: are you with mikael? |
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| <timoxley_> | mikeal* |
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| <ogd> | timoxley_: i was a few minutes ago but i parted ways |
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| <ogd> | timoxley_: you trying to find him? |
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| <timoxley_> | ogd: correct |
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| <ogd> | timoxley_: he is likely near the intersection of grand and broadway in oakland |
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| <timoxley_> | ogd: that is where we is |
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| <ogd> | timoxley_: im across the street, ill come to you |
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| <timoxley_> | ogd: we're out front of farleys east |
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| <jbenet> | mafintosh: you around? |
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| <mafintosh> | Yea for a little while. Going to a wedding today |
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| <mafintosh> | jbenet: whats up |
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| <jbenet> | ah have fun! -- quick q: if you were writing a protocol stack right now, what would you use, streams or event emitters or a mix? |
| 07:58:54
| <jbenet> | say these protocols are encoded with protobuf or something similar, and it really is a stack, layers |
| 08:00:50
| <substack> | protocol parsers are usually best as streams |
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| <substack> | plays more nicely with backpressure |
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| <jbenet> | substack: yeah figured as much. But imagine your protocol stack is a bit complicated. Like, each protocol (say a stream) can have different kinds of messages/events that happen. and the protocols above don't know _all_ the details, but they may know when to call, say `findValue` or `findPeer` in a DHT. |
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| <mafintosh> | I like doing parsers as writable streams and then emitting stuff found as events (with a callback to tackle backpressure) |
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| <mafintosh> | jbenet substack: see my tar-stream module as an example of this |
| 08:14:31
| <jbenet> | mafintosh: considered using multiple streams? like a fan out? (different readable streams per message/event type) |
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| <mafintosh> | jbenet: yes i do that in tar-stream |
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| <jbenet> | ah cool :) |
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| <mafintosh> | jbenet: would love to get some feedback on this pattern if you start writing parsers as well :) |
| 08:31:38
| <jbenet> | mafintosh: will do. my use case is very packet/message oriented. I'll push out some examples by the time you get back. |
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| <jbenet> | dgram streams for you https://github.com/jbenet/multi-dgram-stream https://github.com/jbenet/node-multi-dgram-stream <-- gif :) |
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| <jbenet> | first link should be: https://github.com/jbenet/dgram-stream |
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| <jbenet> | mafintosh: strawman example of what i'm doing: https://github.com/jbenet/node-msgproto-chat-example |
| 12:52:07
| <jbenet> | https://github.com/jbenet/node-ipfs-msgproto (base) and https://github.com/jbenet/node-ipfs-msgproto-integrity (checksum frame) |
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| <juliangruber> | a good read: http://dave.cheney.net/2014/06/07/five-things-that-make-go-fast |
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| <mikolalysenko> | juliangruber: the value type argument I agree with and understand |
| 16:39:04
| <mikolalysenko> | but the rest of the things are standard compiler optimizations |
| 16:39:19
| <mikolalysenko> | v8/spidermonkey/etc all do inlining, dead code elimination, escape analysis and much more |
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| <mikolalysenko> | so yes, it is true that makes go "fast", but then again the same is true for any other programming language |
| 16:40:33
| <mikolalysenko> | and regarding goroutine stacks, the same thing is implemented in D via fibers. though it isn't clear to me that goroutines make things any faster or not, they just facilitate a more convenient or perhaps intuitive style of programming |
| 16:41:07
| <juliangruber> | mikolalysenko: i didn't want to argue that go is good, but i learned some things reading that |
| 16:41:27
| <juliangruber> | like escape analysis and how go grows the stack |
| 16:41:28
| <mikolalysenko> | juliangruber: yes, the main message I would take away is that value types are very important |
| 16:41:40
| <juliangruber> | yeah true |
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| <mikolalysenko> | every language does that though, regarding stack growing |
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| <mikolalysenko> | even C and JS |
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| <juliangruber> | although i wonder where go stores gc information |
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| <mikolalysenko> | probably in a per object tag |
| 16:42:22
| <mikolalysenko> | but you don't need to store gc stuff for value types |
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| <mikolalysenko> | since they are all pass by value and have static scoping |
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| <juliangruber> | cool i need to read more about value types |
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| <mikolalysenko> | the sad part is js almost got them, but the es6 committee thought modules and fat arrows were more important... |
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| <juliangruber> | i guess that makes sense for the most common js use cases |
| 16:45:21
| <mikolalysenko> | but yeah, value types are super important for performance and it is probably the main reason that C/C++ is faster than Java or whatever else |
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| <mikolalysenko> | I think a lot of the js/go comparisons miss the point |
| 17:00:03
| <mikolalysenko> | really the whole advantage to working in js is that it runs in a browser |
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| <mikolalysenko> | if not for that, there would probably be no reason to bother with it |
| 17:01:29
| <mikolalysenko> | for example, this thing is making the rounds right now: http://notes.ericjiang.com/posts/751 |
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| <pkrumins> | i used to write c++ too |
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| 22:01:43
| <jesusabdullah> | so like, what did tc39 do this time? |
| 22:02:55
| <substack> | they changed the es6 modules syntax |
| 22:03:15
| <jesusabdullah> | again? |
| 22:03:17
| <jesusabdullah> | is it any better? |
| 22:03:28
| <substack> | yes but really annoying to be changing things so late |
| 22:03:39
| <jesusabdullah> | yeah |
| 22:03:53
| <substack> | and then they were dicks to Domenic who just pointed out that this kind of late-game changing destroys confidence |
| 22:03:56
| <substack> | tone policing all around |
| 22:04:20
| <jesusabdullah> | idk, I plan to branch out so I'm not really that concerned about the future of js anymore |
| 22:04:45
| <jesusabdullah> | but yeah, that sucks Domenic |
| 22:05:09
| <jesusabdullah> | tone policing is the dumbest shit, like, okay you can tell someone to calm down but that doesn't mean the argument's invalid |
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| 22:24:39
| <substack> | hackygolucky: the people in question have a history of shutting down people who raise dissenting opinions with tone arguments |
| 22:24:48
| <substack> | a severe history |
| 22:24:53
| <substack> | they are not good faith actors |
| 22:25:10
| <substack> | I'm blocking several of them on twitter already |
| 22:25:47
| <substack> | the point of the tone argument is to derail an argument, which it clearly has |
| 22:25:58
| <substack> | that's why I was trying to put the argument back on track, which failed |
| 22:26:03
| <hackygolucky> | substack: yup, I agree. Sorry. The argument for/against tone is a trigger for me :) |
| 22:26:32
| <hackygolucky> | I think it's fine to bring up tone as part of a need to refocus the argument instead of shooting a messenger OR the message |
| 22:27:08
| <substack> | I think your comments are getting mis-interpreted by the guilty parties as justification for their actions though |
| 22:27:13
| <hackygolucky> | sigh |
| 22:27:32
| <hackygolucky> | Gotta love 140 characters as ammo. |
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| 22:27:48
| * hackygolucky | should have known better. |
| 22:29:26
| <substack> | it's really frustrating dealing with those people >_< |
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| <hackygolucky> | I get trying to have a sense of humor, but yeah, debate seems to be a challenge. Especially when their forum is pretty exclusively twitter. |
| 22:33:06
| <substack> | or es-discuss which is a completely toxic place |
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| 22:35:08
| <hackygolucky> | ah, yes. |
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| <substack> | another problem is that tc39 is pay-to-play to the tune of around 500k per seat |
| 22:39:13
| <hackygolucky> | The day I read about the how tc39 worked was a day I was pretty sad. |
| 22:39:47
| <substack> | everything is terrible basically |
| 22:40:15
| <substack> | except making things and collaborating with peers is pretty great |
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| <Wraithan> | substack: suprise perks are pretty great too. Working on a project with a case fan, now I have a fan blowing on me! |
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| <ogd> | mk30: also check out https://github.com/deathcap/voxpopuli (even though its written in coffeescript :( ) |
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| <hackygolucky> | substack: yeah, that's a pretty awesome place to focus. |
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| <substack> | blocking more assholes on twitter |
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| <jesusabdullah> | what did they do this time sub? |
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