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| <mikolalysenko> | check it out, 3d voronoi diagram demo: http://mikolalysenko.github.io/voronoi-diagram/3d.html |
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| <feross> | mikolalysenko, pfraze: yep, PeerCDN was my baby :) |
| 02:46:54
| <feross> | mikolalysenko, pfraze: but honestly, I think WebTorrent can easily serve the same purpose, plus it's like 100x better designed. more decentralized, uses bittorrent (known good protocol), completely open source from the beginning |
| 02:47:22
| <feross> | also, a much more modular design |
| 02:48:06
| <feross> | https://github.com/feross/webtorrent if you're interested |
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| <jjjohnny> | feross: what do you use for webRTC data channels? |
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| <feross> | right now, i just do it by hand but maybe there's a module for that |
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| <jjjohnny> | TCPIPS |
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| <jjjohnny> | ahem |
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| <chapel> | feross: whats the likely hood of webtorrent used for video streaming? |
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| <mikolalysenko> | webtorrent + peermaps would be really kickin rad |
| 03:33:51
| <mikolalysenko> | feross: also, do you have a webrtc client for node? |
| 03:33:54
| <mikolalysenko> | or do you know of one? |
| 03:34:07
| <mikolalysenko> | would be neat to try using webrtc messages to replace websockets |
| 03:34:18
| <mikolalysenko> | since udp gets around the whole buffer bloat problem in tcp |
| 03:35:17
| <guybrush-> | i did a lot of searching on the internet/github, https://github.com/js-platform/node-webrtc is the best i found |
| 03:35:59
| <mikolalysenko> | ugh, that is a lot of binary dependencies... |
| 03:36:07
| <guybrush-> | all the webrtc-guys recommend looking at the libjingle code in the webrtc-repo (native code-examples, java and ios-stuff) |
| 03:36:32
| <mikolalysenko> | I tried reading the spec, but it was so complicated my head started spinning |
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| <guybrush-> | right, i think the best option is to run node-webrtc on the server right now hahaha |
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| <guybrush-> | node-eco-system + all the html5-stuff |
| 03:38:44
| <mikolalysenko> | yeah, but you also have a bunch of non-npm'd native dependencies that are messy |
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| <mikolalysenko> | and fragile |
| 03:38:47
| <guybrush-> | but you need some x-server or xvfb |
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| <guybrush-> | i hacked an example together to compare unreliable webrtc with websockets |
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| <guybrush-> | like dragging a box |
| 03:40:32
| <guybrush-> | but even after getting all the dependencies installed and everything working, i ran into random errors |
| 03:42:22
| <guybrush-> | i think running an actual browser on the server is just the best option right now :D |
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| <mikolalysenko> | guybrush-: that's horrible |
| 03:45:06
| <mikolalysenko> | and also unbelievable that no one has managed to do this yet |
| 03:45:20
| <guybrush-> | of course if you are really into c++ and keep up with the webrtc-repo you will run your own stuff |
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| <mikolalysenko> | so is webrtc pretty firmed up by now, or is the protocol still changing rapidly? |
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| <guybrush-> | im not really looking at that stuff very close, but i think its pretty stable (really dont know exactly) |
| 03:47:06
| <pfraze> | afaik it's pretty stable |
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| <guybrush-> | but there is some stuff changing about authorization with turn |
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| <mikolalysenko> | hmm |
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| <mikolalysenko> | but at least in chrome/ff it seems like a better way to do real time communication than websockets |
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| <guybrush-> | there are a lot of users you dont reach without proper turn-servers running |
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| <pfraze> | feross, the DHT introductions: is that using existing webrtc connections to bootstrap further connections? |
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| <guybrush-> | or even tcp-tunneling |
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| <guybrush-> | (at least thats what they say) |
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| <pfraze> | guybrush-: that's pretty unfortunate |
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| <guybrush-> | yeah its because of all the things that block udp |
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| <guybrush-> | not only firewall but even at isp-lvl |
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| <guybrush-> | with websocket you get through all these |
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| <pfraze> | a node impl could use webrtc brokering to generate tcp connections, yeah? |
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| <pfraze> | websocket -> node server -> peer node server -> websocket? |
| 03:50:04
| <guybrush-> | also there is https://github.com/ging/licode |
| 03:50:13
| <guybrush-> | which implements a MCU |
| 03:50:58
| <guybrush-> | pfraze: not sure about your question, i think i dont understand :p |
| 03:51:33
| <guybrush-> | but! for some server/client application that uses webrtc just to get unreliable communication, there would not be the need of signaling i think |
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| <pfraze> | guybrush-, I suppose I'm not suggesting an improvement over turn |
| 03:51:50
| <guybrush-> | and instead of TURN one could just fallback to websockets |
| 03:52:06
| <guybrush-> | if that makes sense |
| 03:52:41
| <guybrush-> | so for those who are behind whatever udp-blocking thing you provide a websocket-fallback |
| 03:53:22
| <pfraze> | no signalling? |
| 03:53:35
| <guybrush-> | right, i mean you know your servers ip |
| 03:54:07
| <pfraze> | oh yeah |
| 03:54:18
| <guybrush-> | but im not sure, didnt really fully undestand the whole thing yet i think :p |
| 03:54:48
| <guybrush-> | like this https://github.com/cjb/serverless-webrtc |
| 03:55:26
| <pfraze> | yeah I have to try that, I was under the impression there was a time window for creating the connection |
| 03:55:50
| <guybrush-> | oh that sounds horrible |
| 03:56:17
| <pfraze> | the copy/paste is a pretty decent workaround, I figure |
| 03:57:21
| <pfraze> | seems to work. Wonder if you could cache and reuse.... |
| 03:57:36
| <mikolalysenko> | udp might still be better than turn |
| 03:57:47
| <pfraze> | if you can get it, sure |
| 03:58:02
| <mikolalysenko> | err udp+turn might be better than cp |
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| <mikolalysenko> | tcp |
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| <mikolalysenko> | bah, I am falling asleep |
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| <pfraze> | heh, same. I think that's good night for me |
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| <pfraze> | o/ |
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| <feross> | pfraze: that is correct. using existing webrtc connections to bootstrap further connections |
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| <feross> | night everyone. interesting discussion |
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| <guybrush-> | domanic: is npmd cloning git-dependencies recursive? aka handling submodules |
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| <jbenet> | mikolalysenko jjjohnny pfraze: following your conversation, you guys might be interested in a thing I'm building: DHT + Bittorrent + Git + mountable fs. http://jbenet.static.s3.amazonaws.com/2037673/gfs.pdf <-- a bit outdated. should update it. new name is IPFS (first impl in node). |
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| <jjjohnny> | jbenet: whats the status? |
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| <rowbit> | substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/7.0 |
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| <rowbit> | substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/7.0 |
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| * jbenet | jjjohnny: beginning impl now. Expect a code drop in a week. |
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| <substack> | yo jbenet drop it hard *dubstep* |
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| <jbenet> | substack yep. planning to do exactly this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4SSoWEw5CI |
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| <substack> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyiCmlcLmPQ |
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| <rowbit> | /!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) joaquim.serafim@... successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\ |
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| <feross> | jbenet: you should do it like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQeIDhz-_eg |
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| <rowbit> | substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/8.0 |
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| <pfraze> | never known a cat to allow that much abuse |
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| <domanic> | guybrush-, re: npmd & git deps - no it doesn't do a recursive checkout - do you know of modules that do that? |
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| <domanic> | guybrush-, actually, git deps are actually downloaded from github via http... I should probably shell out to git though. |
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| <Wraithan> | Is there an output like TAP that applies to benchmarking data? I want to setup some CI to launch a webserver and use AB or wrk or seige or whatever to see how many hits a second it can handle as well as how much ram it uses throughout that |
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| <rowbit> | substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 162.242.164.84(dev-ie11-1) |
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| <feross> | can't find a good module for jsonp. i think i'm going to publish the 50 lines i've been using |
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| <feross> | okay, i just pinged guillermo to update his jsonp package |
| 21:56:30
| <feross> | the repo field was missing and i couldn't find the code, but that's fixed now |
| 21:56:31
| <feross> | https://www.npmjs.org/package/jsonp |
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| 22:21:41
| <feross> | Raynos: do you have a history.pushState equivalent of hash-router? |
| 22:21:56
| <feross> | basically, a client-side router for pushState |
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| <Raynos> | feross: html5-router |
| 22:25:10
| <Raynos> | feross: same thing but html5 pushstate and shiz |
| 22:25:23
| <feross> | cool! will check out |
| 22:25:24
| <feross> | thoughts on http://visionmedia.github.io/page.js/ |
| 22:25:26
| <feross> | ? |
| 22:26:51
| <Raynos> | feross: too big /complex / expressy / tj is the enemy and can't be trusted |
| 22:27:13
| <ogd> | also canadian |
| 22:27:21
| <feross> | hahahaha |
| 22:27:24
| <Raynos> | feross: I use html5-router because it's based on routes which is my server router |
| 22:27:24
| <ogd> | or maybe thats implied by 'the enemy' |
| 22:29:14
| <mikolalysenko> | Raynos: html5-router is really cool! |
| 22:29:42
| <mikolalysenko> | I've tried hacking with the history/pushState API and found it nightmarishly hard to get right |
| 22:30:30
| <mikolalysenko> | but it was probably because I tried it long ago, and was attempting to bolt it onto some gigantic three.js application |
| 22:30:43
| <Raynos> | feross: so basically, I use & maintain https://github.com/aaronblohowiak/routes.js as my route table thingy |
| 22:30:46
| <Raynos> | for matching & stuff |
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| <Raynos> | Then html5-router, hash-router & routes-router are three thing on top of routes that have sensible defaults for { hash routing, history.pushState, require('http') } |
| 22:31:44
| <Raynos> | miko: there are many different ways |
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| 22:33:13
| <Raynos> | mikolalysenko: I have a second routing thing ( https://github.com/Raynos/mercury/blob/github-issues/examples/github-issues-viewer/components/router.js ) for a different purpose, handing incoming routes and writing to the history are two different APIs |
| 22:35:57
| <Raynos> | feross: to be honest page.js + express is probably a good combo too, personal opinion aside |
| 22:36:05
| <feross> | Raynos: by "handing incoming routes", do you mean detecting the url of the page you're currently on? |
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| <rowbit> | Hourly usage stats: [developer: 6, free: 67] |
| 22:38:18
| <Raynos> | feross: if a user changes the uri in the url bar whilst your app is already loaded and hits enter its not a refresh |
| 22:38:31
| <Raynos> | feross: you have to somehow abort and try to "snap" to the "correct state" of the new uri |
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| <terinjokes> | jlord: i'm downstairs if you're around |
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| 23:01:16
| <Raynos> | its beerJS tonight (SF), I'm going and bringing the module mafia ( https://twitter.com/briantford/status/473961017941053440 ). Other people should go to, cc feross, contrahax, terinjokes, ogd, etc. etc. |
| 23:01:26
| <terinjokes> | contrahax: is here? |
| 23:01:29
| <contrahax> | no :( |
| 23:01:34
| <terinjokes> | damn |
| 23:01:40
| <contrahax> | ill be in sf for a few days after nodeconf and i will definitely be hanging out with all of you |
| 23:01:45
| <ogd> | ah we're having an oakland module mafia meetup lol |
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| 23:01:50
| <contrahax> | module mafia |
| 23:01:52
| <ogd> | w/ a buncha australians |
| 23:01:57
| <terinjokes> | Raynos: i'll only go if i can join the mobile mafia |
| 23:02:07
| <ogd> | Raynos: ill be in sf the next 2 days tho |
| 23:02:08
| <terinjokes> | module* |
| 23:02:20
| <ogd> | contrahax: get an airbnb in oaketowne |
| 23:02:31
| <contrahax> | already got one in soma |
| 23:02:47
| <ogd> | laaammeee |
| 23:02:51
| <ogd> | startups |
| 23:02:58
| <contrahax> | ogd idk how but it was cheaper |
| 23:03:04
| <contrahax> | got a nice 3 bedroom |
| 23:03:19
| <ogd> | weird, maybe cause its actually in the tenderloin |
| 23:03:23
| <ogd> | (just guessing) |
| 23:03:24
| <Raynos> | contrahax: shit sorry, i forgot you dont live in SF >_< |
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| 23:03:44
| <contrahax> | only real devs live in sf |
| 23:03:51
| <contrahax> | im one of those out of town fakers |
| 23:04:07
| <ogd> | if i come to visit would you call it hairizona |
| 23:04:22
| <terinjokes> | contrahax: woot, not much walking for me |
| 23:04:36
| <contrahax> | terinjokes im next to the stadium i think |
| 23:04:44
| <contrahax> | ogd if you come i dont think you would make it |
| 23:04:50
| <contrahax> | ogd the hair would trap in the heat |
| 23:04:51
| <terinjokes> | contrahax: and by my work :) |
| 23:04:56
| <ogd> | contrahax: hey i forgot to tell you that i have been putting slam jams in all my talks to get people pumped up (my talks have been about lebron so it fits with the theme) |
| 23:05:13
| <contrahax> | ogd *confident dubstep continues* |
| 23:05:14
| <terinjokes> | Raynos: i'll be a tad late, since I'm meaning with a writer from work to help me out on some blog posts |
| 23:05:29
| <terinjokes> | ogd: and you aren't around github today, are you? |
| 23:05:35
| <contrahax> | ogd do you have them play slam jams while you run up fist pumping? |
| 23:05:45
| <ogd> | contrahax: actually yes |
| 23:05:59
| <ogd> | while this as on screen http://lebron.technology/lebron.gif |
| 23:06:05
| <ogd> | terinjokes: im not sry |
| 23:06:25
| <contrahax> | ogd i usually do this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lZDgGr1PO0 |
| 23:06:35
| <terinjokes> | ogd: :( i don't know anyone around today |
| 23:06:47
| <ogd> | terinjokes: how did you gain access to their facilities? |
| 23:06:59
| <terinjokes> | i walked in the front door |
| 23:07:01
| <ogd> | contrahax: so good |
| 23:07:07
| <Raynos> | terinjokes: im only there at 9 |
| 23:07:29
| <terinjokes> | Raynos: for just that 1 minute, or will you be there for times after 9? |
| 23:07:38
| <Raynos> | terinjokes: ._. |
| 23:07:52
| <Raynos> | ogd: that lebron gif about php & angular is such lulz |
| 23:08:04
| <ogd> | i have more, lemme upload them |
| 23:08:20
| <Raynos> | ogd: I want one for mercury that trolls react & ember |
| 23:08:30
| <ogd> | i have a generic framework one |
| 23:08:32
| <Raynos> | but i havnt gotten a mascot or logo yet |
| 23:09:23
| <contrahax> | ogd walk up in the conf like https://i.imgur.com/biDFHU0.gif |
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| <ogd> | man this wifi is slow |
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| 23:26:08
| <ogd> | ok https://maxogden.github.io/slides/web-rebels-2014/lebron-dunk-2-small.gif https://maxogden.github.io/slides/web-rebels-2014/lebron-team-small.gif |
| 23:26:11
| <ogd> | Raynos: o/ |
| 23:26:35
| <Raynos> | ogd: \o |
| 23:27:52
| <Raynos> | XD |
| 23:30:36
| <hoobdeebla> | dem gifs doe |
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| <rowbit> | Hourly usage stats: [developer: 2, free: 20] |
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| 23:51:56
| <jbenet> | Raynos: "tj is the enemy and can't be trusted" I'm relatively new to the npm world. What's the reasoning? just the bias towards larger modules? or clibs (instead of dotC on npm)? or just non-module mafia? |
| 23:56:10
| <Raynos> | jbenet: it was a joke |
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| 23:56:40
| <Raynos> | jbenet: visionmedia has a habit of writing modules with a "convenient magic" interface. I tend to dislike this. I just dont like the interfaces to the modules he's written |
| 23:56:56
| <Raynos> | jbenet: he's really smart though and his code is reasonably solid, so if you like it use it! your milage may vary |
| 23:57:24
| <jbenet> | raynos: yeah,figured, but there seems to be some amount of ideological tension-- ah yep. makes sense! |
| 23:57:33
| <Raynos> | jbenet: although visionmedia did write a lot of larger modules 2 years ago, so any of his "popular dinosaurs" that are still around, those i dont like |
| 23:58:14
| <jbenet> | raynos hyper modularity ftw. |
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| 23:59:29
| <jbenet> | "convenient magic" interfaces are useful sometimes. git porcelain comes to mind. you really just want to make both parts (plumbing + porcelain) available. |
| 23:59:44
| <Raynos> | jbenet: check out github.com/Raynos/http-framework github.com/Raynos/mercury github.com/Raynos/jsconf2014-talk github.com/Raynos/jsfest2014-talk |
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