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02:09:58  <mikolalysenko>check it out, 3d voronoi diagram demo: http://mikolalysenko.github.io/voronoi-diagram/3d.html
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02:45:38  <feross>mikolalysenko, pfraze: yep, PeerCDN was my baby :)
02:46:54  <feross>mikolalysenko, pfraze: but honestly, I think WebTorrent can easily serve the same purpose, plus it's like 100x better designed. more decentralized, uses bittorrent (known good protocol), completely open source from the beginning
02:47:22  <feross>also, a much more modular design
02:48:06  <feross>https://github.com/feross/webtorrent if you're interested
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02:53:01  <jjjohnny>feross: what do you use for webRTC data channels?
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02:53:31  <feross>right now, i just do it by hand but maybe there's a module for that
02:56:11  <jjjohnny>TCPIPS
02:56:17  <jjjohnny>ahem
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03:07:17  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 50.57.174.117 (dev2)
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03:24:58  <chapel>feross: whats the likely hood of webtorrent used for video streaming?
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03:33:38  <mikolalysenko>webtorrent + peermaps would be really kickin rad
03:33:51  <mikolalysenko>feross: also, do you have a webrtc client for node?
03:33:54  <mikolalysenko>or do you know of one?
03:34:07  <mikolalysenko>would be neat to try using webrtc messages to replace websockets
03:34:18  <mikolalysenko>since udp gets around the whole buffer bloat problem in tcp
03:35:17  <guybrush->i did a lot of searching on the internet/github, https://github.com/js-platform/node-webrtc is the best i found
03:35:59  <mikolalysenko>ugh, that is a lot of binary dependencies...
03:36:07  <guybrush->all the webrtc-guys recommend looking at the libjingle code in the webrtc-repo (native code-examples, java and ios-stuff)
03:36:32  <mikolalysenko>I tried reading the spec, but it was so complicated my head started spinning
03:38:01  <guybrush->right, i think the best option is to run node-webrtc on the server right now hahaha
03:38:17  <guybrush->node-eco-system + all the html5-stuff
03:38:44  <mikolalysenko>yeah, but you also have a bunch of non-npm'd native dependencies that are messy
03:38:47  <mikolalysenko>and fragile
03:38:47  <guybrush->but you need some x-server or xvfb
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03:39:28  <guybrush->i hacked an example together to compare unreliable webrtc with websockets
03:39:40  <guybrush->like dragging a box
03:40:32  <guybrush->but even after getting all the dependencies installed and everything working, i ran into random errors
03:42:22  <guybrush->i think running an actual browser on the server is just the best option right now :D
03:44:55  <mikolalysenko>guybrush-: that's horrible
03:45:06  <mikolalysenko>and also unbelievable that no one has managed to do this yet
03:45:20  <guybrush->of course if you are really into c++ and keep up with the webrtc-repo you will run your own stuff
03:45:56  <mikolalysenko>so is webrtc pretty firmed up by now, or is the protocol still changing rapidly?
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03:46:48  <guybrush->im not really looking at that stuff very close, but i think its pretty stable (really dont know exactly)
03:47:06  <pfraze>afaik it's pretty stable
03:47:06  <guybrush->but there is some stuff changing about authorization with turn
03:47:13  <mikolalysenko>hmm
03:47:28  <mikolalysenko>but at least in chrome/ff it seems like a better way to do real time communication than websockets
03:47:57  <guybrush->there are a lot of users you dont reach without proper turn-servers running
03:48:00  <pfraze>feross, the DHT introductions: is that using existing webrtc connections to bootstrap further connections?
03:48:15  <guybrush->or even tcp-tunneling
03:48:27  <guybrush->(at least thats what they say)
03:48:29  <pfraze>guybrush-: that's pretty unfortunate
03:48:52  <guybrush->yeah its because of all the things that block udp
03:49:00  <guybrush->not only firewall but even at isp-lvl
03:49:15  <guybrush->with websocket you get through all these
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03:49:42  <pfraze>a node impl could use webrtc brokering to generate tcp connections, yeah?
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03:50:01  <pfraze>websocket -> node server -> peer node server -> websocket?
03:50:04  <guybrush->also there is https://github.com/ging/licode
03:50:13  <guybrush->which implements a MCU
03:50:58  <guybrush->pfraze: not sure about your question, i think i dont understand :p
03:51:33  <guybrush->but! for some server/client application that uses webrtc just to get unreliable communication, there would not be the need of signaling i think
03:51:37  <pfraze>guybrush-, I suppose I'm not suggesting an improvement over turn
03:51:50  <guybrush->and instead of TURN one could just fallback to websockets
03:52:06  <guybrush->if that makes sense
03:52:41  <guybrush->so for those who are behind whatever udp-blocking thing you provide a websocket-fallback
03:53:22  <pfraze>no signalling?
03:53:35  <guybrush->right, i mean you know your servers ip
03:54:07  <pfraze>oh yeah
03:54:18  <guybrush->but im not sure, didnt really fully undestand the whole thing yet i think :p
03:54:48  <guybrush->like this https://github.com/cjb/serverless-webrtc
03:55:26  <pfraze>yeah I have to try that, I was under the impression there was a time window for creating the connection
03:55:50  <guybrush->oh that sounds horrible
03:56:17  <pfraze>the copy/paste is a pretty decent workaround, I figure
03:57:21  <pfraze>seems to work. Wonder if you could cache and reuse....
03:57:36  <mikolalysenko>udp might still be better than turn
03:57:47  <pfraze>if you can get it, sure
03:58:02  <mikolalysenko>err udp+turn might be better than cp
03:58:04  <mikolalysenko>tcp
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03:58:09  <mikolalysenko>bah, I am falling asleep
03:58:23  <pfraze>heh, same. I think that's good night for me
03:58:26  <pfraze>o/
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04:50:48  <feross>pfraze: that is correct. using existing webrtc connections to bootstrap further connections
04:52:00  <feross>night everyone. interesting discussion
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05:38:40  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
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05:48:48  <guybrush->domanic: is npmd cloning git-dependencies recursive? aka handling submodules
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06:09:27  <jbenet>mikolalysenko jjjohnny pfraze: following your conversation, you guys might be interested in a thing I'm building: DHT + Bittorrent + Git + mountable fs. http://jbenet.static.s3.amazonaws.com/2037673/gfs.pdf <-- a bit outdated. should update it. new name is IPFS (first impl in node).
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06:37:08  <jjjohnny>jbenet: whats the status?
06:37:49  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/7.0
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06:56:19  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/7.0
06:58:16  * jbenetjjjohnny: beginning impl now. Expect a code drop in a week.
06:59:38  <substack>yo jbenet drop it hard *dubstep*
07:00:33  <jbenet>substack yep. planning to do exactly this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4SSoWEw5CI
07:00:45  <substack>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyiCmlcLmPQ
07:01:32  <jbenet>oh nice -- man, mario paint rocked.
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07:18:50  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/10.0
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07:44:20  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 162.242.164.84 (dev-ie11-1)
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08:18:51  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: At least 10 people waiting in the queue for free servers! (Waiting: 10)
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09:02:21  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.174.117(dev2)
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10:38:22  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/7.0
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11:05:23  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/7.0
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11:14:23  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/7.0
11:15:23  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/7.0
11:23:23  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/7.0
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11:28:53  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/7.0
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15:02:25  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.174.117(dev2)
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15:11:43  <feross>jbenet: you should do it like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQeIDhz-_eg
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15:17:26  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/8.0
15:21:14  <pfraze>never known a cat to allow that much abuse
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15:27:59  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 22, free: 61]
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15:46:56  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for chrome/31.0
15:49:26  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for firefox/28.0
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16:05:58  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for undefined/undefined
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16:07:02  <domanic>guybrush-, re: npmd & git deps - no it doesn't do a recursive checkout - do you know of modules that do that?
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16:19:04  <domanic>guybrush-, actually, git deps are actually downloaded from github via http... I should probably shell out to git though.
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16:51:47  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) lbretting@... successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
16:51:47  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
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17:14:27  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for undefined/undefined
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18:57:56  <Wraithan>Is there an output like TAP that applies to benchmarking data? I want to setup some CI to launch a webserver and use AB or wrk or seige or whatever to see how many hits a second it can handle as well as how much ram it uses throughout that
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19:27:59  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 48]
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19:39:29  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 162.242.164.84(dev-ie11-1)
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20:35:04  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: testling server safari6 (osx, browserling1 user) is down!
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20:56:29  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: At least 10 people waiting in the queue for free servers! (Waiting: 10)
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21:41:22  <feross>can't find a good module for jsonp. i think i'm going to publish the 50 lines i've been using
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21:56:16  <feross>okay, i just pinged guillermo to update his jsonp package
21:56:30  <feross>the repo field was missing and i couldn't find the code, but that's fixed now
21:56:31  <feross>https://www.npmjs.org/package/jsonp
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22:21:41  <feross>Raynos: do you have a history.pushState equivalent of hash-router?
22:21:56  <feross>basically, a client-side router for pushState
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22:24:49  <Raynos>feross: html5-router
22:25:10  <Raynos>feross: same thing but html5 pushstate and shiz
22:25:23  <feross>cool! will check out
22:25:24  <feross>thoughts on http://visionmedia.github.io/page.js/
22:25:26  <feross>?
22:26:51  <Raynos>feross: too big /complex / expressy / tj is the enemy and can't be trusted
22:27:13  <ogd>also canadian
22:27:21  <feross>hahahaha
22:27:24  <Raynos>feross: I use html5-router because it's based on routes which is my server router
22:27:24  <ogd>or maybe thats implied by 'the enemy'
22:29:14  <mikolalysenko>Raynos: html5-router is really cool!
22:29:42  <mikolalysenko>I've tried hacking with the history/pushState API and found it nightmarishly hard to get right
22:30:30  <mikolalysenko>but it was probably because I tried it long ago, and was attempting to bolt it onto some gigantic three.js application
22:30:43  <Raynos>feross: so basically, I use & maintain https://github.com/aaronblohowiak/routes.js as my route table thingy
22:30:46  <Raynos>for matching & stuff
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22:31:12  <Raynos>Then html5-router, hash-router & routes-router are three thing on top of routes that have sensible defaults for { hash routing, history.pushState, require('http') }
22:31:44  <Raynos>miko: there are many different ways
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22:33:13  <Raynos>mikolalysenko: I have a second routing thing ( https://github.com/Raynos/mercury/blob/github-issues/examples/github-issues-viewer/components/router.js ) for a different purpose, handing incoming routes and writing to the history are two different APIs
22:35:57  <Raynos>feross: to be honest page.js + express is probably a good combo too, personal opinion aside
22:36:05  <feross>Raynos: by "handing incoming routes", do you mean detecting the url of the page you're currently on?
22:36:57  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 6, free: 67]
22:38:18  <Raynos>feross: if a user changes the uri in the url bar whilst your app is already loaded and hits enter its not a refresh
22:38:31  <Raynos>feross: you have to somehow abort and try to "snap" to the "correct state" of the new uri
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22:59:27  <terinjokes>jlord: i'm downstairs if you're around
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23:01:16  <Raynos>its beerJS tonight (SF), I'm going and bringing the module mafia ( https://twitter.com/briantford/status/473961017941053440 ). Other people should go to, cc feross, contrahax, terinjokes, ogd, etc. etc.
23:01:26  <terinjokes>contrahax: is here?
23:01:29  <contrahax>no :(
23:01:34  <terinjokes>damn
23:01:40  <contrahax>ill be in sf for a few days after nodeconf and i will definitely be hanging out with all of you
23:01:45  <ogd>ah we're having an oakland module mafia meetup lol
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23:01:50  <contrahax>module mafia
23:01:52  <ogd>w/ a buncha australians
23:01:57  <terinjokes>Raynos: i'll only go if i can join the mobile mafia
23:02:07  <ogd>Raynos: ill be in sf the next 2 days tho
23:02:08  <terinjokes>module*
23:02:20  <ogd>contrahax: get an airbnb in oaketowne
23:02:31  <contrahax>already got one in soma
23:02:47  <ogd>laaammeee
23:02:51  <ogd>startups
23:02:58  <contrahax>ogd idk how but it was cheaper
23:03:04  <contrahax>got a nice 3 bedroom
23:03:19  <ogd>weird, maybe cause its actually in the tenderloin
23:03:23  <ogd>(just guessing)
23:03:24  <Raynos>contrahax: shit sorry, i forgot you dont live in SF >_<
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23:03:44  <contrahax>only real devs live in sf
23:03:51  <contrahax>im one of those out of town fakers
23:04:07  <ogd>if i come to visit would you call it hairizona
23:04:22  <terinjokes>contrahax: woot, not much walking for me
23:04:36  <contrahax>terinjokes im next to the stadium i think
23:04:44  <contrahax>ogd if you come i dont think you would make it
23:04:50  <contrahax>ogd the hair would trap in the heat
23:04:51  <terinjokes>contrahax: and by my work :)
23:04:56  <ogd>contrahax: hey i forgot to tell you that i have been putting slam jams in all my talks to get people pumped up (my talks have been about lebron so it fits with the theme)
23:05:13  <contrahax>ogd *confident dubstep continues*
23:05:14  <terinjokes>Raynos: i'll be a tad late, since I'm meaning with a writer from work to help me out on some blog posts
23:05:29  <terinjokes>ogd: and you aren't around github today, are you?
23:05:35  <contrahax>ogd do you have them play slam jams while you run up fist pumping?
23:05:45  <ogd>contrahax: actually yes
23:05:59  <ogd>while this as on screen http://lebron.technology/lebron.gif
23:06:05  <ogd>terinjokes: im not sry
23:06:25  <contrahax>ogd i usually do this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lZDgGr1PO0
23:06:35  <terinjokes>ogd: :( i don't know anyone around today
23:06:47  <ogd>terinjokes: how did you gain access to their facilities?
23:06:59  <terinjokes>i walked in the front door
23:07:01  <ogd>contrahax: so good
23:07:07  <Raynos>terinjokes: im only there at 9
23:07:29  <terinjokes>Raynos: for just that 1 minute, or will you be there for times after 9?
23:07:38  <Raynos>terinjokes: ._.
23:07:52  <Raynos>ogd: that lebron gif about php & angular is such lulz
23:08:04  <ogd>i have more, lemme upload them
23:08:20  <Raynos>ogd: I want one for mercury that trolls react & ember
23:08:30  <ogd>i have a generic framework one
23:08:32  <Raynos>but i havnt gotten a mascot or logo yet
23:09:23  <contrahax>ogd walk up in the conf like https://i.imgur.com/biDFHU0.gif
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23:14:10  <ogd>man this wifi is slow
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23:26:08  <ogd>ok https://maxogden.github.io/slides/web-rebels-2014/lebron-dunk-2-small.gif https://maxogden.github.io/slides/web-rebels-2014/lebron-team-small.gif
23:26:11  <ogd>Raynos: o/
23:26:35  <Raynos>ogd: \o
23:27:52  <Raynos>XD
23:30:36  <hoobdeebla>dem gifs doe
23:36:57  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 2, free: 20]
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23:51:56  <jbenet>Raynos: "tj is the enemy and can't be trusted" I'm relatively new to the npm world. What's the reasoning? just the bias towards larger modules? or clibs (instead of dotC on npm)? or just non-module mafia?
23:56:10  <Raynos>jbenet: it was a joke
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23:56:40  <Raynos>jbenet: visionmedia has a habit of writing modules with a "convenient magic" interface. I tend to dislike this. I just dont like the interfaces to the modules he's written
23:56:56  <Raynos>jbenet: he's really smart though and his code is reasonably solid, so if you like it use it! your milage may vary
23:57:24  <jbenet>raynos: yeah,figured, but there seems to be some amount of ideological tension-- ah yep. makes sense!
23:57:33  <Raynos>jbenet: although visionmedia did write a lot of larger modules 2 years ago, so any of his "popular dinosaurs" that are still around, those i dont like
23:58:14  <jbenet>raynos hyper modularity ftw.
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23:59:29  <jbenet>"convenient magic" interfaces are useful sometimes. git porcelain comes to mind. you really just want to make both parts (plumbing + porcelain) available.
23:59:44  <Raynos>jbenet: check out github.com/Raynos/http-framework github.com/Raynos/mercury github.com/Raynos/jsconf2014-talk github.com/Raynos/jsfest2014-talk
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