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00:41:31  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 5, free: 21]
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01:41:23  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.72.216(free8)
01:41:31  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 23]
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02:39:02  <Raynos>domenic: ping
02:39:06  <Raynos>Domenic: ping
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03:00:16  <thealphanerd>substack: any suggestions for running tests on a client side lirbary with node?
03:00:51  <thealphanerd>I first tried using the requirejs npm module… but came to the conclusion that isn’t really testing how things run in a browser… am now considering using phantom… but not sure where to start
03:00:55  <thealphanerd>using tape to write teh tests
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03:02:07  <thealphanerd>also looking at tape-deck
03:13:04  <substack>thealphanerd: I just launch real browsers
03:13:12  <thealphanerd>ahhh
03:13:15  <thealphanerd>trying to automate through travis :S
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03:20:17  <Domenic>Raynos: pong for a few minutes
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03:49:59  <Raynos>Domenic: yo.
03:51:19  <Raynos>Domenic: productive twitter convo. thanks :)
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07:00:14  <juliangruber>domanic: do you know when you'll be stopping by? i'll be out of town late friday - saturday afternoon
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07:02:33  <domanic>oh, I havn't left yet. probably not until after then. I'll let you know in advance.
07:02:51  <domanic>I'll be in veinna for two more days, I have some work to catch up on
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07:32:42  <domanic>Raynos, hey so mecury looks good
07:33:22  <domanic>it uses a diffing model like react, except that it diffs the vdom trees - is that how react works too?
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07:33:44  <Raynos>domanic: added source
07:33:56  <Raynos>domanic: the diff algorithm is similar to react as far as i know
07:35:09  <domanic>does react also create a virtual-dom?
07:35:17  <Raynos>domanic: our patch, i.e. apply a list of vtree patches to a dom element, algorithm is different from react, mercury & virtual-dom use DOM patch, react does innerHTML
07:35:21  <Raynos>react also creates a virtual dom
07:35:28  <Raynos>not to be confused with https://github.com/Matt-Esch/virtual-dom
07:35:41  <Raynos>mercury is sugar + glue + framework opinions on top of virtual-dom
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07:36:46  <domanic>right
07:38:10  <domanic>so in the benchmark your are updating 100 items all at once - but isn't the point of vdom techniques to do partial updates?
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07:38:58  <Raynos>domanic: correct, that and batching
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07:39:45  <Raynos>domanic: doing a 1 item, then 2 then 3 then 4 is really expensive without partial updates, mercury will only add a new item to the end instead of re-rendering the entire list
07:39:56  <Raynos>domanic: also mercury does raf batching, i.e. at most one render per raf
07:41:11  <domanic>Raynos, it's not faster at the animate benchmark
07:41:24  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.72.216(free8)
07:41:31  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 5, free: 59]
07:41:36  <Raynos>domanic: not the fastest, but its faster then react and it stabilizes, also try N = 1000
07:42:15  <domanic>wow, infact, after clicking around all the benchmarks mercury slowed down and is now at 21ms per loop!
07:42:32  <domanic>that is as slow as BACKBONE!
07:43:00  <Raynos>hmm
07:43:20  <domanic>everytime i restart mercury it gets a little slower
07:43:38  <domanic>seems like a GC thing
07:43:50  <domanic>something is persisting that should not
07:43:58  <Raynos>domanic: clicking around is a bug. that fiddle was not build for multiple clicks
07:44:20  <Raynos>domanic: the fiddle has no notion of end so the loops keep looping
07:45:16  <domanic>a good craftsman does not blame his tools
07:45:24  <domanic>because he uses good tools
07:46:26  <domanic>you should graph this one - I can see interesting things like the average ops improves over time
07:47:14  <domanic>also like backbone looks like it gets slower and slower (!)
07:47:44  <Raynos>domanic: yeah, it's a quick and dirty benchmark, it could be better :)
07:48:03  <Raynos>domanic: I have some branches with non trivial examples of mercury apps (more complex then todomvc) I want to finish / merge first
07:48:35  <domanic>Raynos, by the way none of the other benchmarks slowdown when you restart them so there must be somethnig wrong with mercury or the mercury benchmark
07:49:21  <domanic>mercury IS very fast if you start it first from fresh
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07:50:43  <domanic>Raynos, you should do a benchmark that is a starfield screensaver!!!
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07:51:14  <Raynos>domanic: hmm, there is an issue with lack of cleanup, i'll need to add that
07:51:41  <Raynos>i know why it's slow, it's computing vtree's at 60fps
07:51:50  <Raynos>which is O(n) with button clicks
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12:40:28  <domanic> wow
12:40:39  <domanic>http://ngn.github.io/apl/web/ # and then click mandlebrot!
12:40:55  <domanic>code in utf8, get ascii mandebrot
12:41:25  <domanic>http://ngn.github.io/apl/web/#code=%0A%27%20%23%27%5B9%3E%7C%u2283%7B%u237A+%u2375*2%7D/9%u2374%u2282%AF3%D7.7j.5-%u2349a%u2218.+0j1%D7a%u2190%28%u2373n+1%29%F7n%u219098%5D
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13:41:24  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.72.216(free8)
13:41:31  <rowbit>Daily usage stats: [developer: 43, free: 1022]
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14:55:14  <nrw>I brought this up over in #browserling, too: testling appears to be down. are the core developers aware of that?
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17:06:45  <domanic>Multipart file uploads are an offence to good stream apis.
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17:07:52  <ogd>i pretend muiltipart doesnt exist
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17:11:21  <domanic>ogd, how do you upload a file?
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17:43:13  <jlord>ogd: where u be
17:47:23  <ogd>PALUDAN BOGSCAFE
17:47:23  <LOUDBOT>BECAUSE PRESSING SHIFT ALL THE TIME IS TEDIOUS!
17:47:55  <kumavis>ogd i saw you in the beer aisle the other day
17:47:59  <kumavis>you came in 6 packs
17:48:44  <kumavis>http://tinyurl.com/peaxnxq
17:50:01  <kumavis>hmm photo evidence suggests it was a 4 pack
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17:51:00  <jlord>wow lol
18:00:12  <ogd>kumavis: whoa!
18:00:24  <ogd>I approve of that beer
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18:05:54  <feross__>yo substack: yahoo is using browserify in production now :)
18:06:38  <feross__>the video player we wrote is being served to 8% of mobile site users this week. if all goes well, it will be 100% next week!
18:07:00  <feross__>is this is the first “corporate
18:07:06  <feross__>“ deployment?
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18:07:25  <feross__>browserify is getting so profesh these days…
18:14:52  <kumavis>planning a coup to overturn ember usage at work to a series of modules in a browserify setup
18:18:20  <mafintosh>feross__: you should add that to the "who uses browserify" section on http://browserify.org/ if all goes well :)
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18:25:08  <feross__>mafintosh: will do!
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18:41:31  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 33]
18:41:53  <Raynos>:)
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18:58:25  <kumavis>does anyone have a good rant on why we should just use git instead of npm
18:58:30  <kumavis>i feel its rant worthy
19:00:06  <kumavis>there are some obv drawbacks, git doesnt cache submodules like npm does, and you know, expecting eveyone to buy into the practice
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19:01:13  <kumavis>deps would be pegged at commits or tags so you wouldnt have semver loosey goosiness, for better and for worse
19:02:23  <substack>kumavis: that's what component and bower do
19:02:39  <substack>feross__: haha excellent!
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19:03:26  <kumavis>substack oh really? which part?
19:03:48  <substack>kumavis: they use git urls to download and fetch versions
19:04:16  <substack>but unfortunately it's hard to compare them to npm because they have so few other features in common
19:04:49  <kumavis>hmm
19:05:06  <substack>npm does support git urls so you could try using them more and see how it goes
19:05:30  <substack>it could just be that they're not as good in npm because people don't use them as much as semver tarballs
19:05:47  <kumavis>i was more thinking of just using git as the package manager via submodules
19:06:16  <kumavis>no other package managers
19:07:01  <substack>oh that's completely different
19:07:23  <kumavis>i guess you loose the short names of dependencies that comes from working with a centralized registry "npm i cool_module"
19:07:23  <substack>the few times I've dealt with submodules I've mostly just been confused by it
19:07:38  <kumavis>yeah i agree the experience should be improved
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19:10:31  <Raynos>domanic: i found the bug that made the bench slow on multiple clicks ( http://jsfiddle.net/sVPQL/11/ ) :)
19:10:33  <Raynos>SCIENCE
19:11:12  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) andyb@....uk successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
19:11:12  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
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19:34:55  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/10.0
19:35:01  <domanic>Raynos, what was it?
19:35:36  <Raynos>domanic: I added ` state = mercury.value(0);`
19:35:49  <Raynos>resetting the global state observable to a fresh observable is one way to basically `.removeAllListeners()`
19:37:55  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/10.0
19:38:37  <domanic>Raynos, this looks good.
19:39:06  <domanic>you should do more benchmarks where you add things gradually and measure patterns in the performance.
19:39:44  <domanic>so you could make a UI that could add elements until it's perceptably janky in react, but usable in mercury
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19:40:13  <domanic>which you should be able to do by having mercury under the refresh rate but react over it.
19:41:25  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.72.216(free8)
19:41:31  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 6, free: 32]
19:44:22  <domanic>Raynos, mercury is using memoize, but react has mutable state
19:44:28  <domanic>is that a fair comparison?
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19:45:13  <domanic>I guess if the motion wasn't uniform, but was determined by the user actions then memoize wouldn't work so well.
19:47:46  <Raynos>domanic: yes, it uses caching aggressively
19:48:12  <Raynos>domanic: react uses this idea of "subtree re-rendering" which means in a large vdom tree if a deep node changes only that node and its dependencies get re-evaluated
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19:48:53  <Raynos>domanic: in mercury everything is top down, but any branches that have not changed have an O(1) diff thing because of branching, if you structure your vdom correctly you get ~O(1) perf based on similar ideas as using finger trees for immutable data structures
19:53:55  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 166.78.114.172 (dev-ie11-2)
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20:28:24  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: testling server winIE9 + chrome + firefox + opera + safari + all nightly (rackspace) is down!
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20:41:31  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 45]
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