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00:41:31  <DTrejo>cant we just send js back and forth and eval it? ;)
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01:07:15  <thlorenz>pfraze: anything, right now working with tags
01:08:05  <thlorenz>cause for each tag github provides a tar.gz file, so I can stream that down, then through gunzip, then through dockerify (inject Dockerfile) and then straight into docker to build the image
01:08:33  <thlorenz>so streaming all the way from github straight into docker
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01:27:05  <jjjohhny>how new is stream.unpipe?
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01:36:56  <jjjohhny>npm will become fully 16 bit within 24 hours
01:38:15  <jjjohhny>guess the timestamp
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01:47:20  <rowbit1>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 30]
01:47:54  <substack>jjjohhny: http://studio.substack.net/
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01:57:24  <jjjohhny>wavvy
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01:59:28  <substack>the visualization pieces are split out into https://www.npmjs.org/package/amplitude-viewer and https://www.npmjs.org/package/frequency-viewer
02:05:55  <jjjohhny>substack: when is the high school thing
02:06:04  <jjjohhny>err, library thing
02:08:13  <substack>march 25
02:08:41  <substack>I could always use more helpers
02:08:53  <jjjohhny>i was thinking about it today
02:09:00  <jjjohhny>the timeliner
02:09:10  <jjjohhny>script sequencer
02:09:17  <jjjohhny>sequenseer
02:10:20  <jjjohhny>i will help thee
02:11:37  <substack>cool
02:11:39  <jjjohhny>should use max's js-editor like http://secret.synth.fm (and that requireBin site)
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02:16:05  <jjjohhny>why cant this get to run in requirebin https://gist.github.com/NHQ/7216101
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02:16:52  <jjjohhny>ogd: getting 404s from gitub trynna get minified gists
02:16:59  <jjjohhny>on requirebin
02:17:23  <jjjohhny>http://requirebin.com/?gist=NHQ/7216101
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02:47:19  <rowbit1>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 16]
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03:11:27  <jjjohhny>how do you keep a stream from writing to a dead stream?
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03:47:19  <rowbit1>Daily usage stats: []
03:47:19  <rowbit1>Hourly usage stats: []
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04:47:20  <rowbit1>Hourly usage stats: [free: 17]
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05:06:21  <rowbit1>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.56.32.168(dev4)
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05:47:19  <rowbit1>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 1, free: 19]
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05:55:55  <ogd>jjjohhny: add a newline somewhere before you hit run and it will work
05:56:08  <ogd>jjjohhny: it expects to load gists that it saved, which would have a minified.js
05:56:20  <ogd>jjjohhny: but it only loads minified.js if you havent edited the code since you ran it
05:56:31  <ogd>jjjohhny: but if you do edit the code it will rebuild when you hit run
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10:14:30  <jiangplus>\q
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10:43:01  <juliangruber>ogd: omg lebron wad is dis
10:47:19  <rowbit1>Hourly usage stats: [free: 30]
10:51:22  <rowbit1>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 50.56.32.168 (dev4)
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13:08:23  <rowbit1>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 184.106.106.46 (dev-ie8-1)
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16:46:24  <rowbit1>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.56.32.168(dev4)
16:47:19  <rowbit1>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 1, free: 49]
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18:31:47  <simpleirc1>is Dominic around? I came here from dominictarr/cyphernet#18
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19:01:02  <guybrush>gdc google-track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oWojM7X0ao
19:03:24  <rowbit1>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 184.106.106.46(dev-ie8-1)
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19:51:28  <jjjohhny>the N in LEBRON is rightfully NPM
19:52:25  <jjjohhny>as level and browserify and npm all run on node
19:57:43  <ogd>jjjohhny: good point
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20:25:16  <ogd>substack: im goin to hack outside at http://www.yelp.com/biz/akat-cafe-kalli-oakland, they have wifi
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20:47:19  <rowbit1>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 40]
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20:55:42  <jesusabdullah>https://github.com/nslater/DAMAIL lolol
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21:14:29  <hoobdeebla>LOL
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22:02:22  <dominictarr>pfraze, hey - sorry for my abrupt departure yesterday - by battery ran flat
22:03:16  <pfraze>dominictarr, no worries
22:03:20  <dominictarr>but indeed - we are thinking along quite similar lines with nquery and duplex graphics protocols
22:03:39  <dominictarr>but I also think there is quite an oportunity here
22:04:11  <dominictarr>the problem with nquery is that it says "you can still do familiar jquery stuff"
22:04:34  <dominictarr>so "this new architecture is ALMOST AS GOOD as normal web"
22:04:51  <pfraze>haha, true
22:04:52  <dominictarr>but what you really want to say is "this new architecture is BETTER"
22:05:30  <dominictarr>I think there is loads of wonky shit about HTML, etc
22:06:06  <dominictarr>like, it's oriented towards laying out text
22:06:18  <dominictarr>because that was what it was for in 1990
22:06:46  <dominictarr>but now, everyone wants to use it for laying out widgets, and doing "design"
22:06:49  <dominictarr>which is way different
22:06:54  <pfraze>yeah
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22:07:40  <dominictarr>Instead, we should ask our selves: how would we do it if we could start the web over?
22:07:52  <dominictarr>given what we know now?
22:07:59  <pfraze>I agree - and if we're being really forward thinking, there's also VRUIs to consider
22:08:17  <dominictarr>yeah - if you make it about manipulating shapes
22:08:27  <dominictarr>you could do 2d and 3d easily enough
22:08:32  <pfraze>mhmm
22:08:35  * defunctzombie_zzchanged nick to defunctzombie
22:09:23  <dominictarr>make a protocol that could be rendered to html and canvas and svg and webgl
22:09:34  <dominictarr>or at least, target a reasonable overlap.
22:10:21  <dominictarr>and use a decent point/box model that is less quirky than clientInner/Outer/getBoundingClientRect/etc
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22:11:02  <dominictarr>hmm... I should make a prototype of what I'm thinking
22:11:30  <pfraze>yeah. One thing I'm currently exploring, and which is perhaps more abstracted than is necessary for what you're suggesting, is how to compose layout between complex visual elements
22:12:01  <dominictarr>but the most important thing is that is has enough merit to stand on it's own... and then you add your secure VM stuff after so their powers combine - not just catch up to the old tech
22:12:02  <dominictarr>YES
22:12:29  <dominictarr>a pattern that I have seen in successful module systems is nesting
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22:13:17  <dominictarr>each module should be able to have it's own deps, which should never interfere with it's dependant's deps
22:13:32  <dominictarr>(this is also a key part of the VM idea)
22:13:53  <dominictarr>(successful module systems: node.js, level-sublevel)
22:14:18  <pfraze>yes. You know, I expected nesting to be a part of web components, but I've heard that's not the case
22:14:38  <dominictarr>oh, I thought that too.
22:14:39  <dominictarr>hmm
22:14:53  <pfraze>I may be (hope I am) wrong about that
22:14:53  <dominictarr>maybe I should look into that
22:15:17  <dominictarr>you should be able to connect a stream from a "server" to a single element
22:15:46  <pfraze>mhmm
22:15:53  <dominictarr>and that "server" should not necessarily know that it's not the whole screen
22:16:18  <dominictarr>... making it more like a window manager than an app
22:16:35  <pfraze>yeah, like process virtualization
22:16:40  <dominictarr>EXACTLY
22:16:58  <dominictarr>all the things need to be nestable
22:21:12  <pfraze>so let's keep in touch on this. What I'm testing out right now is an idea I've wanted to try a while - again, may be too abstract / not yield - which is to build a visual engine that behaves like a game engine and applies 1) world-space rules and physics, and 2) entity behaviors
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22:22:37  <pfraze>it's geared more toward realtime visual generation, but, depending on how effective the rules and entities are at creating behaviors, might be purposed toward GUIs
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22:27:00  <pfraze>so that's what I'm working on next. I'll let you know if anything comes out of it, and, in the meantime, I'm open to helping with more traditional approaches if you draw up any docs
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22:35:41  <pfraze>dominictarr, one thing I will need is a way to specify rendering primitives, and that might be a good place to start
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22:37:05  <ralphtheninja>dominictarr: this is scary, I've been thinking about these things today but I was just pondering drawing on the <canvas> element
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22:44:09  <dominictarr>pfraze, what is a "rendering primitive" you you mean pixels in graphics memory?
22:44:25  <pfraze>dominictarr, more like shapes and materials
22:44:46  * ferossquit (Quit: feross)
22:44:57  <dominictarr>pfraze, right - but will the shapes be built in? or will there be a way that a module can create them?
22:45:22  <dominictarr>(if it's the latter, I think it would need access to a buffer)
22:45:44  <pfraze>dominictarr, both, probably
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22:46:22  <dominictarr>ralphtheninja, yes - it would be best to have something that you could implement directly, but would also be feasible to do on top of canvas
22:46:22  <pfraze>I'm currently looking at three.js to think that part out
22:46:26  <rowbit1>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.56.32.168(dev4)
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22:46:47  <dominictarr>then you could have a polyfil that made it work on the web, but you could also move past the web
22:47:19  <rowbit1>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 1, free: 24]
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22:53:32  <ralphtheninja>dominictarr: 'the web' as in html?
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22:54:48  <dominictarr>ralphtheninja, yeah. browsers.
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23:02:18  <ralphtheninja>dominictarr: what are you envisioning instead?
23:05:50  * ferossjoined
23:07:04  <dominictarr>ANARCHY OS
23:07:04  <LOUDBOT>THERE WILL BE NONE OF THAT YOUNG MAN
23:07:40  <dominictarr>the web gets the right things right by accident, but is clunky
23:08:16  <dominictarr>the most important thing is to run programs in secure VMs, and really, to be able to nest those
23:08:32  <dominictarr>then you can download and run programs over the network securely
23:08:48  <dominictarr>pfraze, is working on a polyfil that suppiles that on top of web stuff
23:08:50  * contrahaxquit (Quit: Sleeping)
23:09:15  <dominictarr>but you could build that from scratch with tech like pnacl too
23:09:40  <dominictarr>which would be good, because really, you want every program to be that secure
23:10:08  <dominictarr>but also - the web is not as composable as unix
23:10:27  <dominictarr>everything is hidden behind a bullshit UI
23:10:54  * ferossquit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
23:11:06  <pfraze>somehow the hypermedia system got hidden inside html
23:12:34  * ferossjoined
23:13:41  <pfraze>I was looking back at some of the early Berners Lee stuff, and anchors all had numeric ids, while other entities didnt. May have been a bigger idea there that got lost
23:15:02  <ralphtheninja>dominictarr: aye, you're right
23:18:21  <dominictarr>alan kay put it well when he said that the builders of the web where actually building an operating system but didn't realize that
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23:20:06  <substack>Those who do not learn from Unix are doomed to reimplement it... poorly
23:20:26  <defunctzombie>haha
23:21:56  <ralphtheninja>we're doomed :/
23:22:07  <dominictarr>substack, though, the problem with unix is that it doesn't do duplex streams very well
23:22:23  <dominictarr>it's not easy to create servers
23:22:31  <ralphtheninja>the single problem with unix :)
23:22:47  <dominictarr>that is the most significant thing
23:23:03  <dominictarr>in that way, I think node.js is a prototype for unix2
23:23:23  <dominictarr>(an unfinished prototype)
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23:26:32  <pfraze>plan9's papers are an interesting read in the vein of unix2
23:27:13  <dominictarr>I think plan9 was a mistake - they just tried to push the basic metaphore of unix "everything is a file" too far
23:27:39  <pfraze>where do you feel like it broke down?
23:27:41  <dominictarr>everything is a file made sense for a single computer with many users
23:27:57  <dominictarr>but I don't think that makes sense for distributed computing
23:28:48  <pfraze>arguably the mounting processes was more overhead than they needed
23:29:00  <dominictarr>treating another computer as a book on my shelf (i.e. a file) doesn't make sense
23:29:33  <dominictarr>better to treat that as a telephone
23:29:45  <dominictarr>i.e. natively support duplex streams
23:29:50  <dominictarr>& servers
23:30:42  <dominictarr>it would be easier to force files into a telephone shape, since there are actually not that many files.
23:30:54  * hoobdeeblaquit
23:31:05  <dominictarr>your hard drive space is much more limited than the total number of addressable computers in the world
23:31:29  <dominictarr>an now, we even run simulated computers within a single computer
23:32:21  <dominictarr>"everything is a server" I think is the right metaphor for the 21st century
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23:35:39  <pfraze>I agree. The fault that stands out to me was manually configuring the local namespace instead of automating configuration, which, for consumers, Web and mobile both did by simplifying and SaaSing, while Unix moved toward package management and containerization
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23:37:33  <pfraze>the structured access to I/O points is interesting, but not so interesting or useful that you want to do it frequently
23:37:56  <dominictarr>what do you mean by 'configuring the local namespace?'
23:38:25  <dominictarr>are you talking about $PATH? or structuring resources into a heirachical FS?
23:38:54  <pfraze>I'm referring to the way they would layer folder structures on top of each other to create "views" of the filesystem
23:40:01  <pfraze>each process would have its own "view," but write to the same paths, making the path (eg /dev/cons) a sort of universal identifier (the console) which may or may not refer to the same actual interface from one view to another
23:40:48  <dominictarr>pfraze, ah - right - that is kind of an interesting idea
23:41:16  <ogd>jesusabdullah: can you add me as an owner to npmjs.org/browserify-cdn
23:41:33  <jesusabdullah>how do you do that again? And yes, yes I will
23:41:41  <jesusabdullah>Man I'm glad to have help
23:43:17  <dominictarr>brb, eats
23:44:18  <jesusabdullah>ogd: done
23:47:20  <rowbit1>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 14]
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