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00:32:13  <ogd>substack: is 'timeout waiting to hear back from firefox/nightly' my fault or testlings fault (https://ci.testling.com/maxogden/level.js)
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00:47:19  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 2, free: 10]
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01:31:15  <Domenic_>What are peoples' favorite CSS-on-npm examples
01:36:16  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: just pure css files? I am actually not confidant that css is as sharable like js is
01:38:04  <ogd>Domenic_: http://requirebin.com/?gist=8795074
01:41:43  <Domenic_>defunctzombie: i kind of agree; in my (somewhat extreme) opinion all CSS is app-specific.
01:41:59  <Domenic_>ogd: thanks, gotta show those bower users the light
01:42:18  <defunctzombie>yea, css is generally quite app specific
01:43:01  <defunctzombie>bower.. rofl
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01:47:19  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 19]
01:50:43  <ogd>im gonna try and a) improve the error message on requirebin and b) make the 'run' button more intuitive
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02:36:12  <groundwater>grncdr ping
02:36:20  <groundwater>you still in pdx?
02:37:50  <ogd>cwmma: for https://github.com/calvinmetcalf/webdown you dont have to vendor abstract-leveldown e.g. https://github.com/maxogden/level.js/blob/master/test.js#L16
02:38:50  <ogd>cwmma: also i fixed up the level.js testling badge today a bit
02:39:00  <ogd>ie10 passes every once in a while (non deterministic)
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02:47:19  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 27]
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03:02:29  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.171.229(dev-ie6-2), 184.106.106.66(dev-ie7-1)
03:11:51  <defunctzombie>ogd: is there a run button?
03:12:33  <ogd>"The <eyeball> button above runs the code from the current bin."
03:12:42  <ogd>i just think most people dont RTFM
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03:47:19  <rowbit>Daily usage stats: [developer: 23, free: 12]
03:47:19  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 20, free: 9]
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03:50:36  <substack>ogd: the timeouts are probably testling bugs
03:50:55  <substack>juliangruber: thanks, restarting it
03:51:29  <substack>yep it was ENOMEM
03:51:38  <substack>because processes weren't getting killed
03:53:23  <substack>all back up
03:56:15  <ogd>shipped an optimization on requirebin - if you load a gist but didn't edit code it will run the pre-bundled version (try hitting run -- should be fast) http://requirebin.com/?gist=5953535&q=level
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04:17:31  <substack>ogd: did you get the neighborhood geojson to render?
04:17:46  <substack>my browser just churns and churns and never shows me anything
04:17:50  <substack>but this computer is pretty slow
04:18:19  <substack>I put the files in my fork https://github.com/substack/Oakland_2006_Tree_Survey/blob/master/by-district/
04:20:27  <ogd>substack: the district ones fail for me, havent tried neighborhood
04:20:44  <ogd>substack: but this loads pretty quickly https://github.com/maxogden/oakland-boundaries-geojson/blob/master/neighborhoods.geojson
04:22:46  <substack>hmm
04:23:05  <substack>cool I'll try it with those
04:24:12  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) andy@... successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
04:24:12  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
04:25:30  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/11.0
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04:47:19  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 146, free: 22]
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05:02:08  <ogd>rvagg: im confused by isaacs/readable-stream
05:02:15  <ogd>rvagg: why does the build/ directory exist?
05:02:39  <rvagg>ogd: because readable-stream is only a *copy* of core streams
05:02:55  <ogd>rvagg: oh i see
05:03:01  <rvagg>any changes to core streams need to be filtered through the build process, mainly it's stuff to simply make it work in user-land
05:03:11  <rvagg>but there are other changes to make it work on 0.8 for instance
05:03:19  <rvagg>cause core streams don't care about 0.8
05:06:45  <ogd>rvagg: hmm does this mean that it's isaacs/readable-stream that is putting in the inline require in the first place? https://github.com/isaacs/readable-stream/blob/v0.10/build/files.js#L16
05:07:33  <rvagg>ogd: yes, so you can change that if you like
05:08:13  <ogd>this is kind of insane IMO but i'll do it anyway :)
05:08:38  <ogd>rvagg: how do i test it
05:08:53  <rvagg>ogd: ./build 0.11.12
05:09:00  <rvagg>ogd: npm test from the root
05:09:06  <rvagg>ogd: git diff
05:09:12  <rvagg>ogd: see if the diffs you want are the right ones
05:09:27  <ogd>rvagg: i do ./build 0.11.12 even though i'm on the v0.10 branch?
05:09:55  <rvagg>ogd: on the v0.10 branch do ./build 0.10.26
05:10:09  <rvagg>ogd: just make the change on one branch and I'll cherry-pick across
05:10:22  <ogd>rvagg: im assuming https://www.npmjs.org/package/readable-stream is the 0.10 branch
05:10:35  <rvagg>ogd: 1.0.26 -> 0.10.26
05:11:06  <rvagg>1.1.12 -> 0.11.12, last time I published I switched it so that 1.0 (i.e. 0.10) was "latest" so that's what everyone gets by default
05:11:39  <ogd>rvagg: so you're saying i can submit the PR to master and it will still fix it on npm?
05:12:14  <rvagg>ogd: submit the pr from your master to isaacs/readable-stream/master and I'll cherry pick the change across to v0.10 too and publish both versions again and it'll be fixed in npm
05:12:24  <ogd>gotcha
05:15:13  <ogd>rvagg: when i do ./build/build.js 0.11.12 i get Error: Cannot find module 'hyperzip'
05:15:24  <ogd>rvagg: also hyperdirect
05:15:30  <rvagg>ogd: npm install inside build?
05:15:36  <rvagg>if they're not there, npm install --save them
05:15:39  <ogd>oh gotcha
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05:16:44  <ogd>rvagg: it wrote a bunch of github 404s as the _stream.* files
05:16:55  <rvagg>grf
05:17:11  <rvagg>you're sure you gave it the right version
05:17:13  <rvagg>?
05:17:16  <rvagg>has to be precise
05:17:29  <ogd>i ran "./build/build.js 0.11.12"
05:17:35  <ogd>is there supposed to be a v?
05:17:58  <ogd>hmm nope that didnt work either
05:18:01  <rvagg>ogd: oh wait, maybe it's 0.11.11! I think we're still waiting for 0.11.12
05:18:02  <rvagg>sorry
05:18:50  <ogd>oh yea that worked
05:19:41  <ogd>rvagg: hmm the stream_writable from 0.11.11 is totally different that the one on npm (e.g. the 0.10.26 version)
05:20:03  <rvagg>ogd: aye, that's streams3 vs streams2
05:21:14  <ogd>rvagg: so in this case i should submit my pr for the v0.10 branch since only the streams2 version produces the error in browserify...
05:21:33  <rvagg>ogd: yep, if that's the case!
05:21:41  <substack>ogd: https://github.com/substack/Oakland_2006_Tree_Survey/tree/master/by-neighborhood
05:21:46  <rvagg>ogd: the build scripts have already diverged a fair bit so that's fine
05:22:00  <ogd>substack: nice
05:22:20  <substack>it works yay
05:22:21  <substack>https://github.com/substack/Oakland_2006_Tree_Survey/blob/master/by-neighborhood/Coliseum_Industrial.geojson
05:22:21  <ogd>substack: whats the biggest file?
05:22:57  <substack>ogd: Maxwell_Park.geojson
05:23:05  <substack>1.3M
05:23:18  <ogd>oh yea there are lots of trees there
05:23:30  <ogd>loads for me after about 10 seconds, as clusters
05:24:34  <substack>when I click on a tree the metadata gets clipped
05:24:40  <substack>since I guess there's too much content
05:24:42  <ogd>substack: yea it scrolls the map up for me
05:24:52  <substack>ping jlord about it
05:25:27  <ogd>heh
05:30:19  <substack>I can't send a pull request because that page opens up a preview of all the files
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05:33:40  <mk30_>ogd what's the source of your oak neighborhoods geojson?
05:33:53  <ogd>mk30_: i got it on the openoakland data site
05:34:10  <ogd>mk30_: http://data.openoakland.org/dataset/neighborhoods-by-ceda-2002
05:34:15  <mk30_>cool thx
05:34:24  <mk30_>trying to figure out how different it is
05:34:28  <mk30_>from the hoods on the wikk
05:34:29  <mk30_>wiki
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05:34:59  <mk30_>which is gene's map (with some modifications): http://blog.ouroakland.net/2011/12/oakland-maps.html
05:35:10  <ogd>mk30_: oh yea that should be on github as geojson ideally
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05:38:02  <mk30_>going to ask gene how different his map is from this CEDA one (he used a number of sources and built it with commenter feedback over more than 6 months i think..which is great :))
05:38:38  <ogd>mk30_: oh nice
05:38:49  <ogd>mk30_: the ceda one is from 2002 it says
05:39:00  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/11.0
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05:46:00  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: A developer is waiting in the queue for explorer/11.0
05:47:19  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 231, free: 15]
06:01:32  <feross>substack: hey! i found a few bugs in brfs
06:01:43  <feross>first one has a patch here: https://github.com/substack/brfs/pull/17
06:01:48  <substack>feross: cool
06:01:50  <feross>second one needs a bit more discussion i think
06:02:31  <feross>so the second bug is that fs.readFileSync(__dirname + '/robot.html') returns a Buffer in node, but a string in brfs
06:03:10  <feross>the default encoding in node is 'buffer' not 'utf8'
06:03:26  <feross>can we change this so it has parity and increment the major version?
06:04:52  <substack>what's the use-case?
06:05:55  <substack>just parity with node?
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06:07:06  <feross>substack: yeah, parity with node
06:07:19  <feross>i hack around this for my use case, but it seems unintuitive
06:07:35  <substack>I'm open to just bumping the major
06:07:40  <substack>less conceptual overhead
06:07:49  <substack>I've been putting the encoding explicitly in my code anyways
06:08:05  <feross>it was causing a bug in my code where I was expecting a buffer and calling methods on it in my tests
06:08:08  <substack>would it just be Buffer(<string goes here>) in the output?
06:08:13  <feross>but it was a string as so failing
06:08:17  <substack>or perhaps base64-encoded file contents
06:08:17  <feross>i think that would work
06:08:30  <substack>maybe it could auto-detect whether the included file is binary
06:08:35  <feross>yep, needs to be base64 because utf8 is lossy
06:08:40  <substack>ok
06:08:59  <feross>if you use an invalid sequence of character codes for utf8 the output gets changed
06:09:05  <substack>makes sense
06:09:30  <feross>autodetecting would be cool, but maybe too "magical"
06:09:37  <substack>true
06:09:41  <feross>up to you
06:09:56  <feross>the upside is that inlined config files would continue to appear as strings
06:10:03  <feross>which looks nice
06:12:31  <substack>first patch published in 0.2.2
06:12:53  <substack>if you want it to look nice you can just use 'utf8' as the encoding
06:13:10  <substack>feross: did you want to send a patch for Buffer() parity or should I just do that?
06:13:47  <feross>yeah, that's true :)
06:14:21  <feross>can you do it? i'm not too familiar with the code and worried it will take me way longer
06:14:26  <feross>^ substack
06:16:43  <substack>ok sure
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06:17:45  <feross>if you're too busy to do it tonight, i can do it, just lmk :)
06:21:01  <feross>i've never done stuff with the AST before, but it looks cool
06:21:07  <feross>i should do more hacks with it
06:21:19  <feross>looks like a pre-requisite for lots of mad science
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06:30:58  <substack>feross: I've already got a failing test for it
06:31:02  <substack>and I updated the existing tests
06:31:14  <feross>substack: what's failing?
06:32:09  <substack>for this kind of feature I write a test that fails first
06:32:55  <substack>then I implement it and make the test pass
06:34:39  <feross>oh cool
06:34:47  <feross>i thought you were asking for help
06:34:51  <feross>lol
06:35:04  <feross>i'll let you finish it then
06:38:33  <feross>question for anyone here: is there a way to add a browserify transform to package.json that only runs for testling?
06:39:49  <feross>i have some fs.readFileSyncs in my tests but not in the main module
06:40:01  <feross>should i just a brfs transform to the whole module?
06:40:07  <substack>feross: you can put a package.json in your test/ directory
06:40:26  <feross>substack: oh, neat
06:44:07  <substack>feross: ok published in 1.0.0
06:47:19  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 45, free: 16]
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07:27:30  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 50.57.174.105 (dev-ie8-2)
07:33:30  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 50.57.174.105 (dev-ie8-2)
07:47:19  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 1, free: 19]
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09:02:30  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.171.229(dev-ie6-2), 184.106.106.66(dev-ie7-1)
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09:47:19  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 37]
09:53:01  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: At least 10 people waiting in the queue for free servers! (Waiting: 10)
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13:47:34  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 29]
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14:04:35  <juliangruber>does anyone else have npm issues?
14:04:47  <juliangruber>getting 503 doing curl http://registry.npmjs.org/herd/-/herd-0.3.0.tgz
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14:23:41  <cwmma_>juliangruber: I got an `npm ERR! fetch failed https://registry.npmjs.org/es6-shim/-/es6-shim-0.8.0.tgz` a bit ago
14:23:51  <juliangruber>shit is broken
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14:32:59  <ins0mnia>juliangruber: I'm having issues with npm
14:33:18  <ins0mnia>juliangruber: trying to install rsa-stream, shit is broken
14:35:29  <juliangruber>ins0mnia: oh noes
14:36:10  <ins0mnia>npm hasn't been stable for me either, you're not alone :)
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14:39:31  <juliangruber>i think it's fastly
14:39:41  <juliangruber>since the registry meta data is available
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14:47:19  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 41]
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15:02:36  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.171.229(dev-ie6-2), 184.106.106.66(dev-ie7-1)
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15:47:19  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 5, free: 51]
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15:53:02  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: At least 10 people waiting in the queue for free servers! (Waiting: 30)
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16:08:54  <isaacs>anyone here from au?
16:08:59  <isaacs>rvagg: ping
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16:54:40  <calvinmetcalf>ogd: pouchdb using level.js https://github.com/daleharvey/pouchdb/tree/indexedlevel
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17:21:47  <johnkpaul>thlorenz: Domenic_ substack Going to talk in here bc I don't think twitter is a good medium for this
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17:22:06  <thlorenz>johnkpaul: actually move it to #browserify
17:22:07  <johnkpaul>I have many thoughts and concerns, but I think the most salient is actually the least about the answer to this problem
17:22:09  <johnkpaul>but is https://github.com/substack/node-browserify/issues/667#issuecomment-35906231
17:22:11  <johnkpaul>oh ok
17:22:16  <johnkpaul>I didn't know there was a browserify channel
17:22:49  <thlorenz>except Domenic_ isn't there, so either channel works
17:23:16  <Domenic_>meanwhile i am trying to get ember published on npm
17:23:46  <thlorenz>Domenic_: that's the way to go IMO
17:24:00  <thlorenz>Domenic_: johnkpaul the thing is there is nothing I can do in b-shim to address this, so not sure why you're giving me such a hard time
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17:24:24  <Domenic_>thlorenz: of course there is something you can do. there is nothing you can do within the artificial constraints you have set for yourself
17:24:26  <thlorenz>and patching browserify to account for bugs in other tools is not the way to go either
17:25:25  <johnkpaul>I'd like to understand that better thlorenz
17:25:30  <johnkpaul>what the bug in bower is
17:25:52  <johnkpaul>the bug in bower is _not_ removing package.json files when publishing to bower?
17:26:05  <substack>it seems like locally to every project the behavior makes complete sense
17:26:12  <substack>as it currently stands
17:26:20  <Domenic_>it's not a bug in bower from what i can tell. it's that browserify-shim removed features that allowed it to work with folders that include package.jsons used only for development
17:26:34  <thlorenz>Domenic_: ok so there is nothing I can do while keeping b-shim v3 a pure transform
17:26:34  <thlorenz>and that constraint is super important in order to publish libs that shim automatically and to integrate with tools like zuul
17:26:34  <thlorenz>so what is more important here?
17:26:34  <thlorenz>additionally v2 is still alive and kicking and on top of that a simple workaround for the bower issue exists
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17:26:46  <substack>except perhaps in ember, which may not be interested in supporting npm as a publishing endpoint
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17:27:00  <Domenic_>thlorenz: for your users, it is very clear which constraint is more important.
17:27:14  <Domenic_>real world, using ember is much more important than using zuul.
17:27:15  <substack>johnkpaul: doesn't debowerify do the kind of thing that you need?
17:27:15  <thlorenz>johnkpaul: the bug is that it just dumbly downloads stuff and confuses tools
17:27:25  <johnkpaul>yes, I've never taken advantage of anything related to browserify-shim being a pure transform
17:27:29  <thlorenz>Domenic_: not really, lots of libs depend on it being a transform now
17:27:39  <Domenic_>thlorenz: libs != users
17:27:45  <johnkpaul>the only reason I use it is so that I can be agnostic to how authors publish their libraries
17:28:01  <johnkpaul>substack: I don't know actually, I'll look into it
17:28:06  <thlorenz>Domenic_: and we couldn't even use it here at CN with zuul the way we do, so yes users
17:28:16  <substack>johnkpaul: or like Domenic_ is already doing, just pressure ember to publish to npm
17:28:22  <johnkpaul>:)
17:28:27  <johnkpaul>I'm the guy who'd _never_ do that
17:28:32  <Domenic_>why not!?
17:28:37  <Domenic_>it's the best solution
17:28:44  <johnkpaul>well, I guess, I'd ask them, but I don't want to rely on it
17:28:48  <Domenic_>i largely agree with substack's characterization that each library's behavior makes sense locally
17:28:56  <johnkpaul>I'm solidly in the let authors publish where they want camp, and hopefully that's npm, but if it's not, I still want to easily use it
17:29:05  <Domenic_>but with the caveat that i think breaking a major use case is not really acceptable.
17:29:14  <johnkpaul>I don't want to have to wait until the author decides to publish on npm to use it
17:29:22  <johnkpaul>and I never want to publish to npm myself
17:29:35  <johnkpaul>to take the name, just for the sake of using it with browserify
17:29:42  <johnkpaul>this is all why browserify-shim was so amazing for me
17:29:43  <substack>johnkpaul: it gets really tricky with dependencies
17:29:46  <Domenic_>thlorenz: how about adding a new field to the transform config that's something like "ignore these package.jsons"
17:29:57  <thlorenz>johnkpaul: why not do a PR on bower to get an option to not put package.json files where they don't belong
17:30:06  <Domenic_>thlorenz: this is not bower's responsibility
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17:30:19  <Domenic_>people are publishing things with a bunch of "useless" files to bower (and npm)
17:30:20  <thlorenz>Domenic_: it's browserify that doesn't find jquery, not browserify-shim
17:30:25  <johnkpaul>thlorenz: I don't see why bower should control that
17:30:27  <substack>looks like ember is already published to npm, it's just really stale https://www.npmjs.org/package/ember
17:30:28  <Domenic_>people publish their .travis.yml files to bower
17:30:36  <Domenic_>similarly people publish useless package.json files to bower
17:30:39  <Domenic_>that is not bower's problem
17:30:45  <Domenic_>substack: yeah, working to fix.
17:30:48  <johnkpaul>substack: yeah, extremely stale, tried that ~8 months ago
17:31:19  <thlorenz>Domenic_: if I put a package.json file somewhere in your project and it has global dependencies that cannot be resolved, that's not my fault?
17:31:26  <Domenic_>thlorenz: I know but browserify-shim is all about fixing packages to work with browserify.
17:31:26  <thlorenz>that'd even break node
17:31:37  <thlorenz>yes, but at that point it reached it's limits
17:31:42  <Domenic_>thlorenz: no, it's not, if your package isn't meant for runtime use with node!!
17:31:45  <thlorenz>since I can't access browserify dierectly
17:32:11  <Domenic_>if you truly wanted to address your users use cases you would do whatever it takes---monkeypatch browserify, e.g., or PR to add better hooks.
17:32:32  <substack>Domenic_: so another thing I'm planning is to expand the browserify field in package.json to get up to parity with the API, but only for local modules
17:32:43  <Domenic_>substack: that sounds awesome and relevant
17:32:47  <substack>so packages like ember could put "browserify": { "ignore": "jquery" } } into their package.json
17:33:10  <substack>although for this use case you can already do that with the browser field
17:33:12  <Domenic_>thlorenz: you have to think of things with bad package.json's in them just like things that do any other manner of crazy global-attaching things that browserify-shim is responsible for working around.
17:33:15  <thlorenz>Domenic_: Just do mkdir 'mypack' then put a package.json in there that requires foo (which is not in node_modules) but somewhere else
17:33:16  <substack>"browser": { "jquery": false }
17:33:29  <thlorenz>Domenic_: that'd break node even
17:33:35  <Domenic_>thlorenz: obviously!!
17:33:47  <Domenic_>things that need shims already break node!!!
17:33:49  <thlorenz>Domenic_: see, so I can't fix that in b-shim -- obvioulsy
17:34:13  <thlorenz>unless you want b-shim to rewrite bower_component/package.json files
17:34:20  <thlorenz>but I feel that'd be intrusive
17:34:22  <Domenic_>"this breaks node so i can't fix it" is a dumb argument when your entire project is designed to take things that dont' work in node(-like environments), and make them work there.
17:35:18  <thlorenz>Domenic_: ok, waiting for that PR, I'm done for now - this is happening inside of browserify workflow, so I REALLY cannot do anything in b-shim about it
17:35:18  <thlorenz>unless you know how - that's the PR I'm waiting for
17:35:58  <johnkpaul>for me, who might or might not be in the majority of browserify-shim's user population, the need to shim _anything_ is much more important than anything else
17:36:00  <thlorenz>Domenic_: and not moving away from it being a transform - lots of people USE it that way now and depend on tool integration
17:36:02  <substack>could we send a patch to ember to add "browser": { "jquery": false }?
17:36:03  <johnkpaul>and as such, I will continue to use b2
17:36:04  <Domenic_>sure, you can continue passing the buck, to either someone else to do the work of fixing it in a PR, or in another project. that's definitely your perogative as a project maintainer.
17:36:07  <johnkpaul>v2
17:36:17  <Domenic_>but it's not a great way to please your users.
17:36:38  <thlorenz>Domenic_: suggestions? I already pointed out v2 option and workaround, what else?
17:36:40  <Domenic_>substack: I am hopeful that it will be fixed within a few days to actually have dependencies: { jquery }
17:37:09  <substack>Domenic_: it sounds like that wouldn't actually fix the problem though because bower wouldn't put jquery somewhere where browserify knows to look
17:37:15  <thlorenz>lets just try to add an option to bower to allow auto removing package.json after download, that'd be the actual fix we need
17:37:29  <Domenic_>substack: no, i meant put that in their actual package.json, not their bower.json
17:37:33  <substack>unless it was also published to npm
17:37:36  <Domenic_>thlorenz: again, passing the buck.
17:37:44  <Domenic_>remove the package.json yourself
17:38:15  <Domenic_>there are tons of workarounds of varying degrees of hackiness available to fix this
17:38:28  <Domenic_>i am confident that given the massive amount you have already baked into browserify-shim this new one will not be a big deal
17:38:35  <defunctzombie>you guys should take a page from debian/ubuntu package management playbook
17:39:02  <defunctzombie>if upstream is reluctant to support your package manager of choice, then make a patch that makes it work with the tools you want and publish it
17:39:15  <defunctzombie>blog about it and the people also using your tools will use your version
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17:39:35  <thlorenz>Domenic_: still waiting for that PR, I mean what's your point, I explained why it cannot be addressed in b-shim transform
17:39:36  <defunctzombie>if your version is packaged well, upstream will notice and eventually favor working with you on the changes needed
17:39:50  <Domenic_>thlorenz: my point is nobody is going to fix this for you, you need to fix it yourself, you broke it.
17:40:00  <Domenic_>thlorenz: "waiting for the PR" is just an insulting way of saying "i don't wanna fix it."
17:40:21  <thlorenz>Domenic_: I can't fix it
17:40:31  <Domenic_>thlorenz: i am confident you can fix it in various ways. whether deleting package.json, monkeypatching browserify, or adding hooks to browserify to allow transforms more power
17:40:36  <Domenic_>this is software, nothing is unfixable.
17:40:36  <thlorenz>I'm not gonna make b-shim not a transform just b/c of bower
17:40:55  <thlorenz>Domenic_: ok show me!
17:41:05  * thlorenzgoes to get lunch before hair falls out
17:41:16  <Domenic_>thlorenz: not my responsibility. i am giving you advice on how to be a good project maintainer. i am not maintaining your project for you.
17:41:52  <Domenic_>i am finding it ridiculous that given all of your skill you cannot find a workaround for this and bake it into browserify-shim.
17:42:21  <thlorenz>Domenic_: so if I use a lib that autoremoves .forEach and then I blame jsdom, would you fix it in jsdom for me?
17:42:39  <Domenic_>thlorenz: jsdom isn't specifically meant to work with libs that autoremove .forEach
17:42:51  <Domenic_>browserify-shim is specifically meant to work with packages not designed for npm
17:43:18  <thlorenz>Domenic_: the breakage is in browserify which browserify-shim cant' get a hold of
17:43:34  <thlorenz>so browserify is not meant to fix these things
17:43:35  <Domenic_>browserify already breaks when using packages that need shimming
17:43:41  <Domenic_>i agree browserify is not meant to fix such packages
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17:43:50  <thlorenz>ok, so even if Ember was commonjs
17:43:50  <Domenic_>it is browserify-shim's job to fix them so that they work with browserify!!!
17:43:56  <thlorenz>and it was in bower_components
17:44:00  <defunctzombie>why don't you guys just make a script that forks the repo you want, patches it up how you want, then just lets you install via npm using the github style deps?
17:44:01  <thlorenz>browserify would bread
17:44:05  <thlorenz>*breajk
17:44:17  <thlorenz>Domenic_: see b-shim not even in the picture
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17:44:34  <Domenic_>thlorenz: right, because ember + browserify is useless. ember + browserify + browserify-shim is supposed to work.
17:44:38  * creationixshoud know better than to discuss politics and religion on twitter.
17:44:38  <substack>thlorenz: you could run detective on each file and do browserResolve() on each file and if the file isn't found, look in bower_components and rewrite the include
17:45:03  <Domenic_>the fact that it doesn't, despite browserify-shim's mission, implies a failure of browserify-shim to carry out its mission.
17:45:09  <substack>but isn't this what debowerify is supposed to do?
17:45:25  <defunctzombie>rofl
17:45:50  <defunctzombie>this discussion: https://xkcd.com/657/
17:45:55  <defunctzombie>the primer panel
17:47:05  <johnkpaul>substack: yes actually, I think that it is, but until recently, I would have said that browserify-shim does it too, and does it better
17:47:13  <Maciek416>defunctzombie: http://cdn.unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/primer-chart.jpg
17:47:19  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [free: 3]
17:47:20  <johnkpaul>becuase it works for not just bower, but also script tags from 2009
17:47:44  <defunctzombie>Maciek416: hahaha
17:48:16  <Maciek416>defunctzombie: hard to believe someone went through this much analysis :)
17:48:35  <defunctzombie>yes
17:50:22  <Domenic_>oh good maybe i'll finally have a chance of understanding primer!!
17:50:47  <Maciek416>not a chance
17:50:54  <Maciek416>you'll get good at chart-reading though
17:51:57  <substack>johnkpaul: but anyways I think this is the same problem as https://github.com/jashkenas/backbone/issues/2997
17:52:05  <substack>pretty much exactly
17:53:07  <johnkpaul>substack: yeah, I think so, just no mention of browserify-shim
17:53:13  <defunctzombie>we should stop pretending that these massive framework things are "modules" and that they are usable via any of these tools :D
17:53:16  <johnkpaul>I don't see a reoslution though, did they add a browser field?
17:53:40  <defunctzombie>they are written to be included as a separate script tag and that seems to be the simplest way to use any of them
17:53:46  <substack>johnkpaul: I think the require('jquery') got taken out
17:53:50  <johnkpaul>ah I see
17:54:10  <substack>it was some ill-fated attempt to make the tool work in node
17:54:11  <johnkpaul>defunctzombie: TBH the biggest win of requirejs is that you didn't have to do that for anything anymore
17:54:25  <defunctzombie>do what?
17:54:31  <johnkpaul>add separate script tags
17:54:36  <johnkpaul>everything could be shimmed appropriately
17:54:56  <johnkpaul>and your nice new code never had to worry about the fact that you were depending on old legacy globals, or copied and pasted crap that no one knew who wrote
17:54:59  <defunctzombie>yea, but require.js syntax is so silly and annoying and it doesn't solve one of the most important things
17:55:05  <defunctzombie>which is actually listing your deps
17:55:05  <thlorenz>Domenic_: johnkpaul there is one thing I could do
17:55:07  <defunctzombie>and the versions
17:55:13  <johnkpaul>defunctzombie: lol, I'm not making the comparsion you think I am
17:55:14  <thlorenz>I could be optionally intrusive
17:55:39  <thlorenz>like if you tell me b-shim could remove package.json in bower_components for you
17:55:39  <johnkpaul>thlorenz: you mean by vonfiguration?
17:55:56  <defunctzombie>requirejs didn't actually have dependency management, it just had (pretend this is called this now)
17:56:06  <johnkpaul>thlorenz: that would be great! I'd call the option justWork: true ;)
17:56:09  <thlorenz>johnkpaul: the bower.json would tell me where the bowercomponents are right?
17:56:23  <johnkpaul>thlorenz: yes, but there's a default
17:56:27  <johnkpaul>you don't _have_ to define it
17:56:33  <thlorenz>johnkpaul: I was thinking of: bower: 'path-to-compontents'
17:56:38  <johnkpaul>sure
17:56:41  <johnkpaul>that works
17:56:57  <substack>can we also just land this upstream into ember?
17:57:14  <substack>that way people using browserify directly without shimming can just use it
17:57:34  <substack>oh actually that would require also putting it up on npm
17:57:43  <substack>because otherwise stuff gets put into bower_components/
17:58:28  <johnkpaul>I assume there's already an issue on github trying to get it onto npm, but I haven't checked
17:59:20  <johnkpaul>there's this
17:59:20  <johnkpaul>http://discuss.emberjs.com/t/emberjs-and-npm/4233
17:59:24  <johnkpaul>:D at the response
17:59:57  <johnkpaul>"use from bower"
18:02:07  <thlorenz>or just do it when a bower.json is found
18:02:07  <thlorenz>Domenic_: johnkpaul - it's gonna be a hack, but moving this over to the issue to hash out how to do it: https://github.com/thlorenz/browserify-shim/issues/30#issuecomment-35910900
18:02:07  <thlorenz>johnkpaul: how do I know where bower installs to? is there a field in bower.json?
18:03:04  <johnkpaul>thlorenz: the default is bower_components but a .bowerrc file can override it
18:03:30  <Domenic_>i am going to assume nobody does that
18:03:43  <johnkpaul>:) you'd be surprised
18:03:44  <Domenic_>it probably just exists in response to "look we're better than npm!"
18:03:52  <Domenic_>but i bet a shit ton of stuff breaks if you try to use it
18:04:04  <toddself>thlorenz: http://bower.io/#custom-install-directory
18:04:04  <toddself>(yes)
18:04:04  <toddself>it's in .bowerrc
18:04:14  <toddself>though (which if used is in the same directory as bower.json)
18:04:15  <thlorenz>Domenic_: johnkpaul please provide feedback here: https://github.com/thlorenz/browserify-shim/issues/30#issuecomment-35915448
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18:05:31  <johnkpaul>thlorenz: ok, will do, but first, going to eat something.
18:05:38  <johnkpaul>at first glance, that looks like an awesome plan
18:05:56  <thlorenz>johnkpaul: cool, I hope it'll make even someone like Domenic_ happy ;)
18:06:19  <thlorenz>it's really hacky, but prevents regression to v2
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18:47:19  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 16, free: 38]
18:55:01  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) jquader@... successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
18:55:01  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
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18:56:46  <terinjokes>Domenic_: i wouldn't be surprised if people changed it to something like './vendor/'
18:56:57  <terinjokes>that's what we did for the 2 weeks we were using bower
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19:39:20  <thlorenz>johnkpaul: Domenic_ starting to look into the b-shim improvement now, lmk what you think about the last comment https://github.com/thlorenz/browserify-shim/issues/30#issuecomment-35926075
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19:47:19  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 11, free: 44]
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20:11:17  <terinjokes>isaacs: there isn't any differences in node/libuv/v8 between an interactive shell and a noninteractive shell is there?
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20:15:42  <ogd>jesusabdullah: im moving wzrd.in over to digital ocean using https://github.com/maxogden/taco so it will support git based deploys
20:15:56  <ogd>jesusabdullah: meaning i'll give you a password that you can use to deploy
20:16:07  <jesusabdullah>ogd: Word
20:16:33  <jesusabdullah>ogd: In a month or two I'm also down to take over the infra stuff, I wanna get it wired up to logstash n' shit
20:16:53  <ogd>cool
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20:27:26  <terinjokes>isaacs: in my non-scientific tests the lowest amount of free ram i have avialable is 53076kb… that should be enough for a JS allocation, right?
20:27:54  <terinjokes>(free memory coming from the output of `free -s 0.1` during the npm install)
20:28:43  <substack>ogd: https://github.com/substack/oakland-neighborhoods
20:30:13  <terinjokes>isaacs: not that i think an `npm install` should be taking up ~1.17gb of ram
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20:35:31  <ogd>substack: nice
20:38:07  <substack>ogd: https://github.com/substack/Oakland_2006_Tree_Survey/tree/master/by-gene-neighborhood too
20:38:13  <substack>based on that neighborhood map
20:42:34  <ogd>substack: have you ever had issues with spawning git-receive-pack for large repo pushes? e.g. it needing lots of memory or becoming unresponsive
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20:47:43  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: []
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20:51:52  <terinjokes>and to be extra annoying, apport isn't writing out the core dump anywhere that I can find
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20:58:32  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 184.106.106.66 (dev-ie7-1)
21:00:02  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 50.57.171.229 (dev-ie6-2)
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21:07:29  <ogd>jesusabdullah: ok i moved wzrd.in over
21:07:36  <ogd>jesusabdullah: you should be able to log in over ssh as `admin`
21:08:02  <ogd>jesusabdullah: then run `./deploy.sh` from ~ to depooy latest (hit a bug with taco so git based deploy isnt on right now)
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21:10:14  <jesusabdullah>ogd: neat
21:10:25  <ogd>jesusabdullah: can you log in ok?
21:10:34  <jesusabdullah>one sec
21:10:55  <jesusabdullah>perm denied pubkey
21:11:09  <jesusabdullah>lemme pm you my laptop's pubkey you might have the old one's
21:11:10  <ogd>jesusabdullah: ok i mihgt have an out of date one for you, canyou pm me?
21:11:11  <ogd>k
21:13:15  <ogd>jesusabdullah: the server is ubuntu 13.04 x64 that has been configured via https://gist.github.com/maxogden/8551202
21:13:34  <jesusabdullah>handy thx
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21:20:47  <terinjokes>unrelated to my current memory issues, but the copy.sh script fails if the registry url doesn't have auth :(
21:21:24  <Raynos_>https://twitter.com/Raynos/status/438060935840673792
21:21:27  * Raynos_changed nick to Raynos
21:21:54  <Raynos>I'm always happy when there is a < 100 loc library to do what I want
21:21:57  <Raynos>#muchsuccess
21:22:00  <Raynos>#smallmodules
21:22:27  <andreypopp_>any such module for relative timestamps formatting?
21:22:33  <andreypopp_>1 days ago
21:22:35  <andreypopp_>and so on
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21:22:40  <Raynos>think so
21:22:48  <Raynos>but havnt found one or audited one
21:23:05  <substack>https://www.npmjs.org/package/ago
21:24:07  <robertkowalski>Domenic_: not sure if you like it, but I wrote a small thingy that helps me to find abandoned issues
21:24:09  <Raynos>andreypopp: https://github.com/philbooth/vagueTime.js
21:24:14  <robertkowalski>Domenic_: https://github.com/robertkowalski/ai
21:25:07  <Raynos>substack: ago requires you to pick the format
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21:33:38  <juliangruber>substack: github's geojson support is so rad
21:34:24  <ogd>how the crap do i get chrome to load streaming text-plain data
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21:34:42  <ogd>im piping data to an http reponse and have set res.setHeader('content-type', 'text/plain') and res.setHeader('Transfer-Encoding', 'chunked')
21:34:55  <ogd>curl works but chrome doesnt render anything
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21:35:46  <creationix>ogd, surely the header isn't case sensitive?
21:36:18  <creationix>ogd, also, why set chunked manually, doesn't node add that automatically when needed?
21:36:27  <ogd>creationix: thats what i thought too
21:38:22  <ogd>when i do text/plain it doesnt show the http response headers in devtools but if i do text/html it does, but it doesnt render anything since text/html waits until certain html tags
21:41:06  <ogd>heres my code so far https://github.com/maxogden/tail-serve
21:43:30  <creationix>oh, so you're slow-streaming something. I think it's over-buffering. I've seen this before
21:47:19  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [free: 7]
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21:49:45  <creationix>ogd, yeah, I can't get it to work either. My guess is chrome is being over-clever.
21:49:47  <creationix>sorry
21:50:27  <creationix>websockets stream fwiw
21:52:04  <ogd>creationix: thx for trying
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21:53:01  <Domenic_>someone say something interesting! graaaargh i may go crazy watching my java compile
21:55:34  <ogd>chrome doesnt render streaming text/plain so i rewrote my thing to just show the last x bytes of the file using a createReadStream with a start offset that is (fileLength - x)
22:00:01  <ogd>published https://github.com/maxogden/tail-serve
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22:02:44  <jesusabdullah>lol oh siiick, wzrd.in just crash looped
22:02:46  <jesusabdullah>and is down
22:03:01  <jesusabdullah>Where are mon settings ogd
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22:04:07  <jesusabdullah>also silent exit, oh siiick\
22:04:16  <ogd>jesusabdullah: im in there
22:04:31  <jesusabdullah>go on
22:04:32  <ogd>jesusabdullah: i think theres a zombie one running
22:04:38  <jesusabdullah>oh greeaaat
22:05:24  <jesusabdullah>we should probably slow down the restarts
22:06:30  <ogd>im restarting it to make sure the upstart script for mongroup works
22:09:06  <ogd>ohhh
22:09:20  <ogd>jesusabdullah: i had to do sudo PORT=80 npm start instead of PORT=80 sudo npm start
22:09:41  <jesusabdullah>interesting
22:09:50  <jesusabdullah>Can you add, say, a second between restarts?
22:09:54  <jesusabdullah>idk how mongroup works
22:11:02  <ogd>jesusabdullah: https://github.com/visionmedia/mon#usage
22:12:21  <jesusabdullah>http://www.vulture.com/2014/02/alec-baldwin-good-bye-public-life.html This is fascinating
22:13:44  <jesusabdullah>mongroup does not appear to pass that option through
22:13:46  <jesusabdullah>-_-;
22:14:13  <ogd>oh dumb
22:14:22  <jesusabdullah>inorite
22:14:44  <jesusabdullah>Probably best to add those features to the config file
22:15:42  <robertkowalski>btw. when is node 0.8 getting deprecated?
22:15:49  <jesusabdullah>¯\(°_o)/¯
22:15:56  <jesusabdullah>I mean, 0.8 for who?
22:16:16  <jesusabdullah>I think for the core team a new even is equivalent to derprecation
22:17:53  <robertkowalski>ah okay, i hope so!
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22:33:04  <Raynos>hij1nx_: your milage may vary
22:33:32  <Raynos>Generally I find that I have to take ownership and make commits / PRs on things in node_modules, therefore lower complexity is generally better
22:34:30  <ogd>jesusabdullah: ok its set to restart itself 60 seconds after a hard crash -- this might be a bad idea but let's see what happens in production
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22:36:50  <jesusabdullah>Sounds good
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22:47:19  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [free: 0]
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22:56:05  <terinjokes>isaacs: already started a build with -ddd :)
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23:15:29  <pkrumins>browserling now has team plans!
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23:47:19  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 2, free: 10]
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23:53:32  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 50.57.72.216 (free8)
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