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| <jesusabdullah> | Does anyone know the sane way to do an http client request with ruby? A "mikeal/request of ruby"? |
| 00:39:11
| <jcrugzz> | jesusabdullah: what are you doing with ruby O.o |
| 00:39:32
| <jesusabdullah> | Gonna try writing a little irc bot |
| 00:39:40
| <jesusabdullah> | I'm really really sick of node-irc's bullshit |
| 00:39:52
| <jesusabdullah> | and yes I know there are other libraries, but this was just an excuse to try something different |
| 00:40:54
| <jcrugzz> | write it in clojure :p |
| 00:41:14
| <maksimlin> | jesusabdullah: let me know when you have some thing working, I ended up patching irc-node just to get constant connections for my logging bot |
| 00:41:18
| <jcrugzz> | jesusabdullah: mmalecki's ircb is failsauce as well? |
| 00:41:27
| <jcrugzz> | cause i thought that worked well |
| 00:41:51
| <jesusabdullah> | jcrugzz: It might work well, like I said this was just an excuse to try something different |
| 00:41:56
| <jcrugzz> | got it |
| 00:41:59
| <jcrugzz> | thats fair |
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| <jesusabdullah> | jcrugzz: last time I used ircb it was well-architected but hadn't had any real battle-hardening |
| 00:43:12
| <jesusabdullah> | jcrugzz: probably better now though |
| 00:43:22
| <jesusabdullah> | jcrugzz: I guess I just feel like being a masochist |
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| 00:43:37
| <jesusabdullah> | jcrugzz: actually, y'know what? Fuck that I'm way too lazy to rewrite even 100 lines of code |
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| <grncdr> | what's the state of the art in long-stack-traces modules? |
| 00:52:26
| <rowbit> | Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 15] |
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| <jesusabdullah> | Yeah, not a great start for you ircb |
| 00:54:04
| <jesusabdullah> | Silent exit -_-; |
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| <jcrugzz> | xD |
| 00:56:30
| <jcrugzz> | it may need a little love |
| 00:57:29
| <jesusabdullah> | Jesus when is ruby going to get real modules? |
| 00:57:32
| <jesusabdullah> | ಠ_ಠ |
| 00:57:39
| <AvianFlu> | jesusabdullah: ircb shits itself on me frequently |
| 00:57:48
| <AvianFlu> | it's why louderbot restarts so often |
| 00:57:55
| <AvianFlu> | well, that and db timeouts |
| 00:58:17
| <jcrugzz> | AvianFlu: is the protocol for irc just that hairy? |
| 00:58:29
| <AvianFlu> | not really |
| 00:58:39
| <AvianFlu> | the thing about writing libraries is that you've got a use case |
| 00:58:49
| <AvianFlu> | and then you don't really need to finish something, always, if it's not job related |
| 00:59:02
| <AvianFlu> | and mmalecki made that lib as a side project, and I don't think uses it for much |
| 00:59:04
| <jesusabdullah> | https://github.com/cinchrb/cinch/blob/master/lib/cinch/bot.rb#L209-L219 |
| 00:59:06
| <AvianFlu> | hence being not quite complete |
| 00:59:08
| <ogd> | in order to get real modules in ruby we need to deceive them into believing they invented it and didnt copy it from node because JS is a toy language |
| 00:59:15
| <jesusabdullah> | THANKS RUBY THANKS FOR MAKING IT OKAY TO MAKE JSON CONFIGS HARDER |
| 00:59:15
| <LOUDBOT> | IS IT STILL SNOWING |
| 00:59:18
| <AvianFlu> | lolol ogd |
| 00:59:38
| <jesusabdullah> | ogd: Can we convince them that they DID copy it from javascript and that this is the problem? |
| 00:59:45
| <ogd> | oooh good call |
| 00:59:54
| <jesusabdullah> | ogd: I bet rubyists don't see what the problem is with <script> tags |
| 00:59:59
| <jesusabdullah> | because it's the same one |
| 01:00:11
| <rowbit> | substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.56.27.70(dev-ie6-1) |
| 01:00:11
| <ogd> | for april fools day we should do a nodejs.org blog post about how node 1.0 switches to rubygems style require |
| 01:00:23
| <ogd> | isaacs: o/ |
| 01:00:41
| <jesusabdullah> | isaacs: ^^^ |
| 01:00:52
| <jesusabdullah> | and explain why it's so much better |
| 01:01:29
| <jesusabdullah> | make the npm cli tool so crappy you need another tool called nbundler |
| 01:01:42
| <jesusabdullah> | SEPARATION OF CONCERNS! OF COURRSE! |
| 01:01:42
| <LOUDBOT> | WE WOULD CHANT AT THE DRIVER: "HAVE AN ACCIDENT! HAVE AN ACCIDENT! HAVE AN ACCIDENT! HAVE AN ACCIDENT!" AND THEN "CRASH!!! CRASH!!! CRASH!!! CRASH!!!" |
| 01:02:41
| <rowbit> | substack, pkrumins: At least 10 people waiting in the queue for free servers! (Waiting: 11) |
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| <Raynos> | ogd: I think it would be better if we switched to rubygems |
| 01:15:02
| <Raynos> | and have a `npm-gems` module where you can `npm-gems add-user` and `npm-gems publish-all` to republish all your npm modules on rubygems |
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| <Raynos> | ogd: we can definitely be like "We are sorry for all the recent npm troubles, we are going to change over to rubygems because rubygems is rock solid" |
| 01:20:28
| <jesusabdullah> | Okay, I tried. That library's api is insufferable. |
| 01:20:41
| <jcrugzz> | lulz |
| 01:20:45
| <jesusabdullah> | aaaand I don't feel like learning ruby regexps right now |
| 01:21:28
| <jesusabdullah> | I am picking things up though |
| 01:21:35
| <jesusabdullah> | like I kiiiiiiinda know how blocks work now |
| 01:21:37
| <jesusabdullah> | kiiiinda |
| 01:22:16
| <jcrugzz> | jesusabdullah: its like a function |
| 01:22:23
| <jcrugzz> | but called something different |
| 01:22:24
| <jcrugzz> | just cause |
| 01:22:39
| <jcrugzz> | and i dont know if it gets outer scope or not, i feel like it doesnt |
| 01:22:48
| <jcrugzz> | but yea i spent very little time with ruby |
| 01:23:03
| <jesusabdullah> | I think it closing behaviors are different from functions |
| 01:23:21
| <jesusabdullah> | but yeah |
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| <feross> | rvagg: cool, thx! |
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| <rowbit> | substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.72.69(free7) |
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| <jlord> | does anyone have a windows computer that can see if git-it works on? |
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| <jlord> | https://github.com/jlord/git-it |
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| <groundwater> | jlord booting my windows vm |
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| <grncdr> | man, I missed ruby discussion in here? D: |
| 04:00:34
| <groundwater> | grncdr lol |
| 04:01:17
| <groundwater> | jlord i gave koding.com a try last week, it's a good fallback if all else fails |
| 04:01:26
| <groundwater> | it gives you a vm, and shell access |
| 04:01:28
| <groundwater> | with npm installed |
| 04:01:33
| <groundwater> | all done through the web |
| 04:01:50
| <grncdr> | jesusabdullah: have you tried https://npmjs.org/package/irc-message-stream ? |
| 04:02:20
| <grncdr> | man I'm going to write a bot right now because why not |
| 04:03:04
| <jesusabdullah> | I've not |
| 04:03:36
| <jesusabdullah> | Is it duplex? |
| 04:04:04
| <grncdr> | maybe? |
| 04:04:09
| <grncdr> | should be if it isn't |
| 04:05:27
| <grncdr> | nope, it's a transform |
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| 04:17:17
| <gildean> | wouldn't transform be fine tho? raw buffers are written in and objects get written out (assuming the write-side is on objectmode) |
| 04:21:56
| <groundwater> | jlord omg windows if f*ing painful to work in |
| 04:22:11
| <grncdr> | gildean: yeah it doesn't let you write messages-as-objects back though |
| 04:22:22
| <grncdr> | which I think is what jesusabdullah was looking for |
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| <gildean> | grncdr: yeah, i'd perhaps have two streams, the other in objectmode on write-side, the other on objectmode on read-side, then the raw-modes vice versa |
| 04:30:38
| <gildean> | so you could do: ircsocket.pipe(messageparser).pipe(messageserializer).pipe(ircsocket); |
| 04:32:01
| <gildean> | something like deoxxa has actually made: https://npmjs.org/package/irc-protocol |
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| <grncdr> | hm, that looks right to me |
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| <grncdr> | was just writing basically the same thing using irc-message & duplexer |
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| 04:35:59
| <grncdr> | hm, so, on one hand. that looks like exactly what I want |
| 04:36:18
| <grncdr> | on the other hand, would it kill him to include some examples of the message structure? |
| 04:37:54
| <gildean> | grncdr: yeah, that's deoxxa for you, he's got like dozens of modules on npm, they all lack at least parts of the docs but he does write pretty good code |
| 04:38:59
| <gildean> | grncdr: he's on freenode on the same nick from time to time, on #node.js, #noweb or #webtech, tho' i haven't seen him in a while |
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| <groundwater> | jlord done, but i left you two PRs because there were two problems |
| 04:50:29
| <groundwater> | other than that, it works on windows |
| 04:50:43
| <groundwater> | after installing Github for Windows, and the node.js official bundle |
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| <jlord> | groundwater: thanks so much! I jsut left a comment on one of your things, I'd love to know your thoughts since technically the code wise everything happened as I intended it to but I can see how that would be confusing for th euser |
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| <jlord> | Anyone use github tarballs in their package.json? |
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| <groundwater> | jlord i don't think you can use github tarballs because the npm tarball unpacks to package/ or something |
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| <groundwater> | unless i misunderstand what you're trying to do |
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| <rowbit> | substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.56.27.70(dev-ie6-1) |
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| <groundwater> | jlord dropped some replies back at you |
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| <rowbit> | substack, pkrumins: At least 10 people waiting in the queue for free servers! (Waiting: 23) |
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| <grncdr> | after many distractions, my bot is "working" |
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| <rowbit> | substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.56.27.70(dev-ie6-1) |
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| <dominictarr> | LOL https://npmjs.org/package/grunt-grunt |
| 16:04:07
| <dominictarr> | what about a thing to convert a grunt command into a UNIX tool that you can just run from the command line. |
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| <jaz303> | lol |
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| <defunctzombie> | grunt is so stupid |
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| <dominictarr> | jesusabdullah, currently writing a modern-invoice module, to you guessed it, generate invoices in the best font |
| 16:13:37
| <jesusabdullah> | excellent |
| 16:14:29
| <dominictarr> | jesusabdullah, maybe we should make t-shirts? |
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| <AvianFlu> | dominictarr: lololol |
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| <dominictarr> | I think they could just say Computer Modern on them, and can just let the helvetica fanboys stare until they realize it's the name of a superior typeface. |
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| <rowbit> | Hourly usage stats: [developer: 8, free: 44] |
| 16:59:30
| <defunctzombie> | HOW DO I SLIDE TRANSITION SOMETHING FROM 0 TO AUTO ?!?!?! |
| 16:59:31
| <LOUDBOT> | OH I'LL SHOW YOU A GRAPH |
| 16:59:38
| <defunctzombie> | WHY IS THIS SO HARD! |
| 16:59:39
| <LOUDBOT> | ONLY IF THE ARROWS ARE ON FIRE |
| 16:59:44
| <defunctzombie> | nice |
| 17:00:25
| <jaz303> | what property? |
| 17:00:43
| <defunctzombie> | height |
| 17:00:54
| <jaz303> | if you set a min-height it "works" |
| 17:01:16
| <defunctzombie> | so my current issue is going from something that is already set at height 0 |
| 17:01:33
| <defunctzombie> | lets say something is already collapsed (via max-height: 0) |
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| <defunctzombie> | or whatever |
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| 17:03:09
| <jaz303> | sorry i meant max-height. on the site i'm working on i just toggle that between 0 and something sane |
| 17:03:31
| <defunctzombie> | everyone says that.. but something sane I might not know |
| 17:03:35
| <jaz303> | and apply the transition to the max-height property |
| 17:03:42
| <jaz303> | yes in that case you're out of luck |
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| <defunctzombie> | this is stupid |
| 17:03:49
| <jaz303> | as far as i know |
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| 17:04:07
| <defunctzombie> | marcello3d: I need to make a slide toggle/accordion thing |
| 17:04:21
| <defunctzombie> | marcello3d: how do I do that if I have variable target height? |
| 17:04:27
| <jaz303> | you should just be able to set a transition on `height` and have it all work |
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| 17:04:33
| <defunctzombie> | I agree |
| 17:04:40
| <marcello3d> | it doesn't work that way, sadly |
| 17:04:46
| <defunctzombie> | but standards people hate web developers |
| 17:04:50
| <thlorenz> | defunctzombie: this: https://twitter.com/defunctzombie/status/428208248949178368 rofl |
| 17:04:51
| <marcello3d> | you can't transition from an automatic height to fixed height |
| 17:05:00
| <thlorenz> | so true though |
| 17:05:10
| <defunctzombie> | thlorenz: yep |
| 17:05:10
| <marcello3d> | defunctzombie: basically you need to set the style.height to clientHeight+'px' |
| 17:05:19
| <marcello3d> | then you can animate it |
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| <defunctzombie> | marcello3d: right.. I got the "slide up" part |
| 17:05:52
| <defunctzombie> | but what if my element is already hidden |
| 17:05:55
| <defunctzombie> | or height 0 |
| 17:05:59
| <marcello3d> | ok for that |
| 17:06:02
| <defunctzombie> | and I want to slide it down? |
| 17:06:16
| <marcello3d> | you have to make it visible, measure the clientHeight, then make it invisible again, then start the animation |
| 17:06:29
| <defunctzombie> | jesus christ |
| 17:06:30
| <marcello3d> | it doesn't render anything until the js finishes |
| 17:06:45
| <marcello3d> | so basically it does the layout when you call clientHeight :) |
| 17:06:56
| <defunctzombie> | I hate life |
| 17:07:00
| <defunctzombie> | but if you make it visible |
| 17:07:10
| <defunctzombie> | sigh... |
| 17:07:19
| <marcello3d> | so basically |
| 17:07:28
| <defunctzombie> | so basically I should just quit |
| 17:07:30
| <marcello3d> | set it to the final state you want via classes |
| 17:07:45
| <marcello3d> | then measure it, then remove that class again, and start the animation |
| 17:08:02
| <marcello3d> | if you use something like jquery it might do all that behind the scenes when you do the transitions, don't remember |
| 17:08:14
| <defunctzombie> | jquery does.. but I am trying to remove all jquery |
| 17:08:18
| <marcello3d> | it gets funky with things like padding, borders, and margins, so you gotta watch out for that |
| 17:08:19
| <defunctzombie> | and this is the last annoying piece |
| 17:08:37
| <defunctzombie> | so I think I might have an idea based on what you said |
| 17:08:57
| <defunctzombie> | it will be weird cause I gotta make the item visible but not show it on the page |
| 17:09:05
| <marcello3d> | it doesn't matter |
| 17:09:09
| <defunctzombie> | ? |
| 17:09:12
| <marcello3d> | you do it all in the same run of javascript |
| 17:09:15
| <marcello3d> | the screen never updates |
| 17:10:02
| <defunctzombie> | interesting |
| 17:10:02
| <marcello3d> | if you do like foo.style.display='auto'; var h = foo.clientHeight; foo.style.display='none'; |
| 17:10:02
| <marcello3d> | it'll measure it |
| 17:10:08
| <defunctzombie> | really? |
| 17:10:11
| <marcello3d> | yes |
| 17:10:15
| <defunctzombie> | imma try that |
| 17:10:22
| <marcello3d> | assuming it doesn't have height=0 or other things affecting the size |
| 17:10:26
| <marcello3d> | but that's the basic idea |
| 17:10:47
| <defunctzombie> | what if height is 0 |
| 17:10:52
| <defunctzombie> | can I make height auto and have it work? |
| 17:11:00
| <defunctzombie> | I will try |
| 17:11:05
| <defunctzombie> | this is an interesting revelation if it works |
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| 17:13:01
| <marcello3d> | yes, height to auto or default or whatever |
| 17:13:06
| <marcello3d> | I would do it with classes, not modifying .style |
| 17:13:38
| <marcello3d> | I mean, this feature is part of the reason web ui can be slow... the whole UI blocks on javascript |
| 17:13:56
| <marcello3d> | and getters like clientHeight will trigger a layout if stuff has changed |
| 17:14:58
| <defunctzombie> | marcello3d: why with classes and not .style? |
| 17:15:04
| <defunctzombie> | marcello3d: also you are right.. holy shits |
| 17:15:17
| <defunctzombie> | that is crazy |
| 17:15:30
| <marcello3d> | less code. usually you can do this kind of thing by removing/adding classes you already wrote |
| 17:15:52
| <marcello3d> | it also lets you change a bunch of them at once |
| 17:17:10
| <marcello3d> | I'm surprised you doubted me, though ;D |
| 17:17:11
| <defunctzombie> | marcello3d: got it! |
| 17:17:15
| <defunctzombie> | it is a christmas miracle!! |
| 17:17:19
| <defunctzombie> | holy mother jesus |
| 17:18:48
| <defunctzombie> | I will need to release a module for this crazy shit |
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| <marcello3d> | wouldn't it be nice if browsers could animate to auto, huh? :) |
| 17:21:14
| <marcello3d> | I'm guessing the reason they don't is because there're too many edge cases |
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| <marcello3d> | anyone here live in sf? know anything about this meetup? http://www.meetup.com/jsmeetup/events/160602812/ |
| 17:24:35
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| 17:25:24
| <defunctzombie> | I am guessing they don't cause they hate web developers |
| 17:25:37
| <defunctzombie> | this is my answer to all questions on why browsers do things |
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| <rowbit> | Hourly usage stats: [developer: 4, free: 47] |
| 17:54:21
| <groundwater> | marcello3d you gonna go? |
| 17:55:09
| <marcello3d> | I was thinking about it, but I'm worried it'll be too basic |
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| 17:55:44
| <groundwater> | marcello3d yah i tend to stay away from JS events, and only go to node events |
| 17:55:56
| <marcello3d> | are there any good node meetups in the city? |
| 17:56:20
| <groundwater> | marcello3d nodebots day is always good |
| 17:56:28
| <marcello3d> | just moved up from nyc and trying to find the scene |
| 17:56:28
| <groundwater> | the nodeschool event ogd ran was awesome |
| 17:56:45
| <groundwater> | joyent has events every now and then |
| 17:57:09
| <groundwater> | just follow @dshaw on twitter, he retweets everything |
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| <marcello3d> | haha ok |
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| <marcello3d> | man. I need a disconnect resilient irc client |
| 18:01:42
| <marcello3d> | alright. train here. bbiab |
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| <mikolalysenko> | eagerly umd-ifying a js package should be considered an antipattern |
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| 18:25:51
| <mikolalysenko> | why on earth would I want to include all that crap in a bundle if I am requiring() their script using browserify? |
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| <marcello3d> | I think it happens because people want plug and play for experimentation |
| 18:28:19
| <marcello3d> | especially non-engineer web developers/designers |
| 18:28:35
| <marcello3d> | browserify is definitely not plug-and-play |
| 18:30:54
| <jesusabdullah> | What if you do it reservedly, mikolalysenko ? |
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| <mikolalysenko> | jesusabdullah: I don't think there is any good reason to ever do it |
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| 18:45:39
| <mikolalysenko> | jesusabdullah: unless you are going to distribute a separate preminified/bundle library |
| 18:45:55
| <mikolalysenko> | jesusabdullah: but if you are gonna publish it to npm, the best practice should be to just use commonjs |
| 18:46:15
| <jesusabdullah> | yeah prombably |
| 18:46:15
| <mikolalysenko> | otherwise you waste a couple hundred bytes per js module, and risk messing it up everywhere you copy/paste it |
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| 19:00:13
| <rowbit> | substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.56.27.70(dev-ie6-1) |
| 19:02:43
| <rowbit> | substack, pkrumins: At least 10 people waiting in the queue for free servers! (Waiting: 71) |
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| <mikolalysenko> | so many nested modules in making this: https://npmjs.org/package/bitmap-to-boxes |
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| <spion> | how do you deal with dependencies that are also in development? npm link? |
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| 19:44:27
| <grncdr> | spion: that's what I do |
| 19:44:41
| <grncdr> | I've also been doing git urls more frequently for apps |
| 19:45:38
| <spion> | git urls in production too? |
| 19:46:12
| <spion> | oh, npm can do #tag or #commitish right? |
| 19:46:16
| * spion | checks |
| 19:46:31
| <spion> | yup |
| 19:46:35
| <guybrush> | spion: all you lose with gith-urls is semver |
| 19:47:02
| <guybrush> | but you can emulate it by doing semver-branch-names |
| 19:47:34
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| 19:48:34
| <spion> | interesting |
| 19:48:50
| <guybrush> | though you may want to check in node_modules in production anyway and do `npm rebuild` |
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| 19:52:26
| <rowbit> | Daily usage stats: [developer: 22, free: 794] |
| 19:52:26
| <rowbit> | Hourly usage stats: [developer: 3, free: 33] |
| 19:55:16
| * defunctzombie_zz | changed nick to defunctzombie |
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| 20:03:55
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| 20:14:11
| <defunctzombie> | marcello3d: want to use my irc bouncer? |
| 20:14:59
| <defunctzombie> | mikolalysenko: many people don't yet know about the new ways to build JS |
| 20:15:29
| <defunctzombie> | mikolalysenko: they think they need to include all that boilerplate to make it easy for others to use |
| 20:15:44
| <defunctzombie> | they don't realize they could just make "dist" files or help educate on how to use modules |
| 20:15:53
| <defunctzombie> | the thing with modules is that they seem harder at first |
| 20:15:58
| <defunctzombie> | cause inserting a script tag is so easy |
| 20:16:07
| <defunctzombie> | but once you understand how to use them you realize they are easier |
| 20:16:17
| <defunctzombie> | cause you can actually try stuff faster and keep code organized better |
| 20:17:25
| <marcello3d> | defunctzombie: how's that work? |
| 20:17:42
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| 20:17:53
| <defunctzombie> | marcello3d: you connect to my irc bouncer and not the irc server |
| 20:17:59
| <defunctzombie> | and it detects when you disconnects |
| 20:18:03
| <defunctzombie> | and saves messages |
| 20:18:08
| <defunctzombie> | for replay when you reconnect |
| 20:18:11
| <marcello3d> | and spools em out...got it |
| 20:18:21
| <defunctzombie> | it also is the thing that makes my nick change to _zz when I disconnect |
| 20:18:36
| <marcello3d> | sounds useful, hook me up! |
| 20:18:44
| <defunctzombie> | I run one of digitalocean and make it available to anyone who wants to use it :) |
| 20:19:53
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| 20:41:55
| <guybrush> | defunctzombie: is there no problem with amount of users? |
| 20:42:10
| <guybrush> | i mean i cant connect too much bouncers to freenode |
| 20:42:17
| <defunctzombie> | guybrush: not that I am aware of.. I mean I only have 3 users currently |
| 20:42:20
| <guybrush> | quakenet even only alows 3 or something |
| 20:42:27
| <guybrush> | oh ok |
| 20:42:28
| <defunctzombie> | oh.. like per IP ? |
| 20:42:32
| <guybrush> | right |
| 20:42:39
| <defunctzombie> | yea.. maybe one day |
| 20:42:41
| <guybrush> | but im not sure about the limit on freenode |
| 20:42:46
| <defunctzombie> | but for now it hasn't been an issue |
| 20:43:11
| <defunctzombie> | guybrush: limiting on IP for connections like that seems like it could go wrong tho |
| 20:43:16
| <defunctzombie> | cause what about office environments? |
| 20:43:23
| <defunctzombie> | where everyone looks like they come from one ip? |
| 20:43:28
| <defunctzombie> | maybe that doesn't happen anymore |
| 20:44:19
| <guybrush> | hm you are right, im not sure haha - only know that on quakenet i cant do more than three connections with my bouncer |
| 20:45:10
| <guybrush> | but maybe i did something wrong or something, didnt really investigate further since i dont provide bouncers for others anyway :p |
| 20:52:26
| <rowbit> | Hourly usage stats: [developer: 2, free: 42] |
| 21:01:13
| <rowbit> | substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.72.69(free7) |
| 21:04:15
| <mikolalysenko> | question about npm's implementation of semantic versioning: if I publish a module as 1.1.0 and a module uses version "~1.0.9", will it automatically get the latest version? |
| 21:04:32
| <mikolalysenko> | theoretically, that should be ok right? |
| 21:05:47
| <guybrush> | mikolalysenko: no |
| 21:05:59
| <guybrush> | ~1.0.9 will give you 1.0.x |
| 21:06:05
| <mikolalysenko> | bah |
| 21:06:06
| <mikolalysenko> | ok |
| 21:06:06
| <guybrush> | where x is the highest |
| 21:06:29
| <mikolalysenko> | can you roll back a module once you published it then? |
| 21:06:47
| <mikolalysenko> | like roll from 1.1.0 back to 1.0.10 to avoid all the pain and agony of upgrading everything |
| 21:07:09
| <guybrush> | i think you can unpublish versions and stuff but im not sure, never did something like that |
| 21:07:17
| <mikolalysenko> | and what is the correct way to get npm to match the "highest sematnically consistent version"? |
| 21:07:47
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| 21:07:56
| <ogd> | the recommended way to do it is to only automatically install newer patch versions |
| 21:08:01
| <ogd> | minors and majors are considered manual upgrades |
| 21:08:29
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| 21:08:31
| <mikolalysenko> | ... |
| 21:08:38
| <mikolalysenko> | then why have a minor version at all? |
| 21:09:11
| <guybrush> | thats a philosopical question i guess :p |
| 21:09:16
| <guybrush> | +h |
| 21:09:24
| <ogd> | it all varies depending on whether or not the author of the module you are using actually follows semver |
| 21:09:29
| <ogd> | i thnk most authors dont |
| 21:10:07
| <mikolalysenko> | ok, but take ndarray for example |
| 21:10:16
| <mikolalysenko> | I want to add some non-breaking backwards compatible stuff to it |
| 21:10:22
| <mikolalysenko> | I should increment a minor version |
| 21:10:34
| <ogd> | yep |
| 21:10:34
| <mikolalysenko> | but if I do that it is gonna wreak havok on everything |
| 21:10:41
| <ogd> | why? |
| 21:10:51
| <mikolalysenko> | because you are gonna have modules spitting out ndarray objects that ought to be compatible |
| 21:10:57
| <mikolalysenko> | basically module ndfoo produces an ndarray |
| 21:11:01
| <mikolalysenko> | module ndbar consumes it |
| 21:11:08
| <mikolalysenko> | but ndfoo is only on "~1.0.9" |
| 21:11:15
| <guybrush> | ndfoo should than upgrade minor too |
| 21:11:15
| <mikolalysenko> | and ndbar wants "~1.1.0" |
| 21:11:28
| <guybrush> | when it consumes newer ndarray |
| 21:11:30
| <mikolalysenko> | but there are like a million ndfoos, and the minor version doesn't break any of them |
| 21:11:51
| <mikolalysenko> | and ndfoo doesn't touch any of the stuff that was added (it was non-breaking after all) |
| 21:11:54
| <ogd> | why would the typed array be incompatible between 1.0.9 and 1.1.0 |
| 21:11:56
| <guybrush> | hm i see what you mean but i guess thats how it is and it only can get worse :p |
| 21:12:01
| <mikolalysenko> | it isn't a typed array |
| 21:12:11
| <mikolalysenko> | basically I want to add a method to get the index of an array element |
| 21:12:18
| <guybrush> | woah! |
| 21:12:21
| <guybrush> | that is cool feature |
| 21:12:26
| <mikolalysenko> | yeah, makes sense |
| 21:12:42
| <mikolalysenko> | none of the current code uses it, and adding it harms nothing |
| 21:12:55
| <mikolalysenko> | but if you have a module that uses this new feature it won't be compatible with older code |
| 21:13:08
| <mikolalysenko> | so semantically I got a minor version increase, right? |
| 21:13:18
| <mikolalysenko> | but the problem is if I do that it doesn't really do what you want |
| 21:13:25
| <ogd> | why not pass around the typed array then and let modules wrap it in their own ndarray |
| 21:13:38
| <mikolalysenko> | sometimes a module creates its own ndarray |
| 21:13:52
| <mikolalysenko> | like get-pixels for example |
| 21:14:05
| <mikolalysenko> | because an ndarray has more semantic information than just a typedarray |
| 21:14:12
| <mikolalysenko> | it is a typedarray + shape + offset + stride |
| 21:14:22
| <ogd> | if two modules pass each other an ndarray but the module receiving it expects certain methods to exist shouldnt the burden be on it to ensure that? |
| 21:14:39
| <guybrush> | it slows things down |
| 21:14:46
| <guybrush> | if you have to check everytime |
| 21:14:58
| <mikolalysenko> | also why even create a data structure in the first place then? |
| 21:15:08
| <mikolalysenko> | and the additions are non-breaking, fully backwards compatible |
| 21:15:23
| <mikolalysenko> | anyway, I have to go soon |
| 21:15:28
| <mikolalysenko> | but I think I will just increment patch |
| 21:15:28
| <ogd> | so for this use case, which seems valid, you can always do ~1.x |
| 21:15:35
| <guybrush> | but i think it ultimately is on the developer to put the right modules together |
| 21:16:59
| <guybrush> | ~1.x is kind of useless imho :DD |
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| 21:17:02
| <guybrush> | it will break for sure |
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| 21:17:52
| <ogd> | depends on the author |
| 21:17:56
| <guybrush> | i think like ogd said, passing typedarrays arround is the best thing |
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| 21:19:23
| <guybrush> | and just make sure in the application-level that everywhere is the same shape+off+stride |
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| <rowbit> | Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 27] |
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| <marcello3d> | hallo |
| 22:02:42
| <marcello3d> | I guess I should try signing off/on |
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| <defunctzombie> | marcello3d: \o/ |
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| 22:09:07
| <marcello3d> | woot, thanks defunctzombie :D |
| 22:09:38
| * marcello3d | 's cool points++ |
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| 23:02:23
| <defunctzombie> | npm acting up again? |
| 23:03:13
| <substack> | seems so |
| 23:03:21
| <defunctzombie> | sadness |
| 23:08:55
| <defunctzombie> | npm...y you so ghetto |
| 23:09:41
| <AvianFlu> | defunctzombie: npmjs.eu is actually quite fast from NY |
| 23:09:50
| <AvianFlu> | ...and I fixed it this morning so it should be working right now XD |
| 23:09:54
| <defunctzombie> | haha |
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| 23:17:11
| <guybrush> | is there some option in npm to define a secondary registry? |
| 23:17:26
| <guybrush> | like put 2 registries in .npmrc |
| 23:17:40
| <robertkowalski> | guybrush: no, but there is a ticket for it |
| 23:18:13
| <robertkowalski> | guybrush: do you know https://github.com/deoxxa/npmrc ? |
| 23:18:32
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| 23:18:34
| <AvianFlu> | guybrush: I usually just add --registry when there are troubles, and use one of the others |
| 23:18:44
| <AvianFlu> | that would be a cool feature though |
| 23:18:44
| <robertkowalski> | guybrush: https://github.com/npm/npm/issues/1401 |
| 23:18:48
| <AvianFlu> | give it a priority order |
| 23:18:50
| <guybrush> | robertkowalski: no i dont but that does not solve my issue |
| 23:19:05
| <guybrush> | AvianFlu: the thing is i want to have a fallback |
| 23:19:17
| <AvianFlu> | guybrush: yeah, I understand that |
| 23:19:21
| <AvianFlu> | that would be really cool |
| 23:19:38
| <AvianFlu> | registries: [main, mirror1, othermirror] and have it use those in that order |
| 23:19:42
| <AvianFlu> | that would be really awesome |
| 23:19:45
| <guybrush> | robertkowalski: thx for pointing at the issue |
| 23:19:58
| <guybrush> | AvianFlu: yeah that would be very awesome |
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| 23:51:04
| <mikolalysenko> | ogd, guybrush: sorry couldn't respond earlier, but the problem with passing destructured typedarrays around is that sometimes you need more than just array/shape/stride/offset |
| 23:51:15
| <mikolalysenko> | for example, suppose the underlying array is not a typed array, but some sparse storage |
| 23:51:27
| <mikolalysenko> | like a hash table or rle data |
| 23:52:07
| <mikolalysenko> | another problem is that passing around destructured data can get error prone |
| 23:52:14
| <guybrush> | i think this is the same problem with connect-middleware stuff |
| 23:52:19
| <mikolalysenko> | like in C where you sometimes forget to pass the length of an array to a function |
| 23:52:23
| <guybrush> | which is why they introduced peer-dependencies |
| 23:52:24
| <mikolalysenko> | it isn't quite the same issue though |
| 23:52:26
| <rowbit> | Hourly usage stats: [developer: 1, free: 35] |
| 23:53:05
| <mikolalysenko> | the underlying issue is when are two semantic versions compatible |
| 23:53:28
| <mikolalysenko> | the question of should you pass around objects is besides the point, though interesting and worth discussing |
| 23:54:02
| <mikolalysenko> | my current point re semantic versioning is this: if you aren't going to upgrade minor versions automatically, then why bother with major/minor in the first place? |
| 23:54:07
| <mikolalysenko> | just have a major version and a patch |
| 23:54:08
| <guybrush> | in my opinion it should be up to the developer who puts those modules together, he should look at what does what and install packages that work together -- semver is only usefull to some point i think |
| 23:54:48
| <mikolalysenko> | or better yet, kill major version altogether and just force users to create a new module whenever they break something |
| 23:55:02
| <mikolalysenko> | if you can upgrade it in a backwards compatible way, increment the local version |
| 23:55:06
| <mikolalysenko> | otherwise fork it and make something else |
| 23:55:21
| <guybrush> | sounds not so cool :D |
| 23:55:25
| <mikolalysenko> | why? |
| 23:55:49
| <guybrush> | it sounds like it makes the discovery-problem even worse |
| 23:55:54
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| 23:55:54
| <mikolalysenko> | how is it any different than the current state of affairs (other than the obvious additional strain it would place on namespaces) |
| 23:56:03
| <guybrush> | like there are now eventemitter{2,3,4,..} |
| 23:56:06
| <mikolalysenko> | you could also just do something like mymodule-1, mymodule-2, etc. |
| 23:56:08
| <mikolalysenko> | yeah |
| 23:56:14
| <mikolalysenko> | it is actually the same problem as events/streams |
| 23:56:18
| <mikolalysenko> | (anyway have to go again) |
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| 23:59:53
| <grncdr> | mikolalysenko: sorry I missed it |