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01:15:30  <jesusabdullah>hah
01:15:40  <jesusabdullah>What are jenn's irc haunts anyway?
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01:38:49  <jesusabdullah>johnkpaul: Are there any good nyc coding irc channels I should know about?
01:39:09  <johnkpaul>jesusabdullah: nyc specific? not particularly
01:39:17  <jesusabdullah>huh
01:39:25  <jesusabdullah>Utah has a utah js channel
01:39:28  <jesusabdullah>so I figured I'd ask
01:39:44  <johnkpaul>we have #nychtml5, but it's just been private for the organizers for a while
01:39:52  <johnkpaul>we should open that up someitme though
01:42:07  <jesusabdullah>is that upcoming?
01:43:35  <johnkpaul>probably?
01:43:46  <jesusabdullah>Nah, I meant the event
01:43:49  <jesusabdullah>or is it events?
01:43:52  <jesusabdullah>idk anything about it
01:43:52  <johnkpaul>ah
01:43:59  <johnkpaul>http://nychtml5.com
01:44:05  <johnkpaul>once to twice a month
01:44:15  <johnkpaul>I'll be pestering you to speak at one eventually
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01:44:23  <jesusabdullah>sweet
01:44:27  <johnkpaul>Feb 19th is the next one
01:44:31  <jesusabdullah>I'll be there
01:44:37  <johnkpaul>cool
01:44:44  <johnkpaul>you don't need to RSVP b/c you have a CN id
01:44:48  <jesusabdullah>I fly out sursday
01:44:55  <johnkpaul>this Thursday?
01:44:55  <jesusabdullah>I just packed my bed >_<
01:44:58  <johnkpaul>awesome!
01:44:58  <jesusabdullah>Yeah, this thursday
01:45:06  <jesusabdullah>Stressed though, I have a lot of stuff
01:45:13  <jesusabdullah>and I haven't started a real apartment hunt yet
01:45:20  <jesusabdullah>I have an airbnb for my first 2 weeks
01:45:21  <johnkpaul>eh, once you try to stuff it all into a tiny apt, you'll shed quick
01:45:24  <jesusabdullah>I think I'll just have to get another one
01:45:35  <jesusabdullah>Oh, it's not actually that bad. Just the bed and a few bags
01:45:48  <jesusabdullah>but I couldn't sell the bed at a sane price, so...
01:46:51  <johnkpaul>you're shipping your bed you mean?
01:46:54  <jesusabdullah>Yeah
01:47:06  <jesusabdullah>and one more piece of furniture since it's really cool and compacts easy
01:47:11  <johnkpaul>oh wow, you're going to need storage quick then
01:47:19  <jesusabdullah>Yeah, I got it though
01:47:28  <jesusabdullah>the u-haul pod things are hybrid shipping/storage
01:47:37  <jesusabdullah>so after tomorrow it'll be in storage
01:47:41  <jesusabdullah>and then I'll tell them to ship it
01:47:49  <jesusabdullah>and then it'll be in storage in like flatbush waiting for me
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01:48:11  <jesusabdullah>so that's cool
01:49:14  <grncdr>hm, anybody know if there's some secret to POST requests with hyperquest?
01:49:21  <johnkpaul>that is cool, I didn't know that service existed
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01:49:28  <jesusabdullah>Yeah me neither
01:49:46  <jesusabdullah>I was looking up mostly freight forwarders, and THAT was a mess. Most of them won't even deal with "household goods"
01:49:52  <grncdr>no matter what I do my callback never gets called :(
01:49:53  <jesusabdullah>They're all b2b
01:49:54  <grncdr>substack ^^
01:50:27  <jesusabdullah>pbbbbbb
01:50:35  <grncdr>also, on-topic: I had stuff in storage in 3 states at one point
01:50:46  <grncdr>well, 2 states and 1 province
01:50:53  <grncdr>now I'm down to 2
01:50:55  <grncdr>:D
01:51:01  <jesusabdullah>I feel that. I *might* have stuff in storage in SF, depending on a few things that I shouldn't get into
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01:51:19  <grncdr>jesusabdullah: yeah I seem to recall you mentioning that
01:51:26  <grncdr>shitty deal :\
01:51:34  <jesusabdullah>Yeah but I'm mostly over it
01:51:36  <jesusabdullah>mostly
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02:06:48  <defunctzombie>substack: is intreq gonna work with sourcemaps?
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02:11:55  <defunctzombie>substack: intreq should add a comment with the original in the source
02:12:18  <defunctzombie>then you could use it and minifiers will remove the comments
02:13:53  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) browserling@... successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
02:13:53  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
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02:15:20  <substack>yay
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02:15:51  <substack>defunctzombie: I was going to let other people send patches for that stuff if they want
02:16:05  <substack>I see it more as an optimization step
02:16:29  <defunctzombie>it is... I honestly don't think it is really needed tho something like d3 might benefit
02:19:20  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.56.27.70(dev-ie6-1), 166.78.104.64(dev-ie10-2), 162.242.164.84(dev-ie11-1)
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02:43:20  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.72.69(free7)
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03:28:32  <guybrush>substack: intreq throws for me, i have a very large bundle (1,8mb) and it always throws when row.source starts with `exports){`
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03:29:32  <guybrush>Unexpected token )
03:29:39  <substack>guybrush: might be a bug in browser-unpack
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03:46:07  <guybrush>haha
03:46:22  <guybrush>everything after the threejs node is fucked :D
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03:52:26  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 13, free: 19]
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04:00:50  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: At least 10 people waiting in the queue for free servers! (Waiting: 10)
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04:03:48  <defunctzombie>guybrush: 1.8mb bundle.. jesus
04:04:35  <guybrush>well it has threejs in it..
04:04:48  <mikolalysenko>three.js is >800kb by itself
04:04:52  <guybrush>also lots of json-stuff that is only for developing
04:05:02  <mikolalysenko>add in plugins and whatnot and you are easily >1mb
04:05:09  <guybrush>right
04:05:29  <guybrush>the uglified thing is 800kb
04:08:19  <guybrush>im planing to replace three with tiny modules but its lot of work for sure... for proof-of-concept stuff its ok :)
04:08:41  <mikolalysenko>guybrush: yeah, there is still lots more to do to make that workflow easier
04:10:00  <guybrush>also with three you can sketch something very fast that looks okish, without any knowledge about webgl at all
04:10:26  <guybrush>if you want to put something together in a few hours, just to try out how it feels
04:10:43  <mikolalysenko>depends what you want to do, but if you just want to draw a bunch of meshes there are much simpler options
04:11:09  <mikolalysenko>for example I put together this thing: https://npmjs.org/package/mesh-viewer
04:11:23  <guybrush>well thats for looking at a mesh
04:11:42  <guybrush>i have a complete game with camera and all the stuff
04:11:51  <mikolalysenko>you can stick a camera on that pretty easily
04:11:58  <guybrush>lightning culling etc
04:12:12  <mikolalysenko>it has builtin lighting, but it isn't very sophisticated
04:12:28  <mikolalysenko>though for a game I think three.js' culling isn't really adequate anyway
04:12:37  <mikolalysenko>might as well just loop over all objects and draw them
04:12:46  <guybrush>i mean for proof-of-concept anyway
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04:13:20  <mikolalysenko>in the proof of concept case you probably don't need to worry about culling
04:13:26  <guybrush>im really just building server-stuff anyway and try to sync all the states, so i dont even want to think too much about all the things regarding rendering haha
04:13:30  <mikolalysenko>if you have <1000 or so objects you are drawing
04:13:34  <guybrush>oh i do have to
04:13:44  <mikolalysenko>really?
04:13:53  <mikolalysenko>does three.js' culling actually make a difference?
04:13:54  <guybrush>otherwise there are just too much vertices haha
04:14:16  <guybrush>oooh maybe i use the wrong word, i mean it removes all the meshes that are not in the viewport
04:14:24  <mikolalysenko>yeah frustum culling
04:14:33  <guybrush>and yes that makes a lot of difference
04:14:50  <mikolalysenko>well, if it is an issue you can use stuff like this: https://npmjs.org/package/box-frustum
04:15:25  <guybrush>actually i would need something that culls all the things im not able to see :p like when im in a cave
04:15:40  <guybrush>or when stuff is behind a mountain
04:15:54  <guybrush>didnt find anything on the internet yet
04:15:55  <mikolalysenko>I don't think three.js can do that easily
04:16:03  <guybrush>ha i thought so :D
04:16:03  <mikolalysenko>generally visibility is a hard problem
04:16:17  <mikolalysenko>usually it is easier and faster to just rasterize it and let the z-buffer sort things out
04:16:24  <guybrush>i thought, maybe i can do something with using the lod-data or something
04:16:43  <mikolalysenko>you can draw a low res scene and use occlusion queries
04:16:44  <guybrush>or even use something like picking
04:16:48  <mikolalysenko>but on webgl they aren't supported
04:16:57  <mikolalysenko>and readback is really slow since it is synchronous
04:18:16  <mikolalysenko>the one thing that is nice with three.js though is shadow mapping out of the box
04:18:25  <mikolalysenko>which is kind of tough to do if you want to roll it yourself
04:19:13  <mikolalysenko>part of the problem is that supporting complex lighting and modular rendering is difficult to do
04:19:17  <guybrush>well i may be in the wrong channel to say something like that, but it sure is nice to have a unified api for all the things
04:19:31  <mikolalysenko>since the more advanced the lighting model, the more assumptions you have to make
04:19:35  <guybrush>throw things together without thinking since it all works the same way
04:19:54  <guybrush>so for sketching i think threejs is a pretty nice tool to have
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04:26:17  <mikolalysenko>guybrush: fair enough, I think that is reasonable as it stands today
04:26:41  <mikolalysenko>but I think that someday there will be a more modular alternative that is easier to get started with
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04:27:48  <ogd>mikolalysenko: look someone stole your mario and posted it to reddit for karma http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1w7riq/3d_printed_original_mario/
04:27:57  <ogd>(i posted source in comments)
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04:28:50  <guybrush>mikolalysenko: fullack
04:30:12  <mikolalysenko>ogd: yeah I saw that!
04:30:21  <mikolalysenko>ogd: one of my friends sent me a text message
04:30:42  <guybrush>mikolalysenko: do you think its a bad idea to calc offline what is viewable per area? like devide everything in boxes and calculate if there are holes in the boxes
04:30:57  <mikolalysenko>guybrush: depends on the game, but it can be a good idea
04:31:01  <mikolalysenko>that is how quake did it
04:31:09  <mikolalysenko>look up precalculated visibility set
04:31:22  <mikolalysenko>for a voxel game probably a bad idea though
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04:31:37  <guybrush>hmm
04:31:40  <mikolalysenko>I have an idea for maybe how to deal with visibility dynamically, but it is a little crazy so I'm not sure it will work
04:31:55  <thlorenz>grncdr: here is a good example why you need macros in C: https://github.com/thlorenz/sync-stream.c/blob/master/include/sst.h#L124-L127
04:32:05  <mikolalysenko>to put it in perspective, for quake 1 calculating the pvs would take up to a week for some of the larger maps
04:32:16  <mikolalysenko>but that was back on a pentium class desktop
04:32:20  <thlorenz>this allows me to call sst_pipe with as many streams I want to (minimum 2)
04:32:48  <mikolalysenko>for today, it probably isn't gonna be much faster since you will probably want to draw more complicated maps than in quake 1
04:32:49  <guybrush>mikolalysenko: the thing is im doing already a lot of work with the dynamic data anyway (packing and stuff) so i might just throw something like that in
04:33:01  <mikolalysenko>visibility is difficult to do in 3d
04:33:10  <mikolalysenko>in 2d it is easy though
04:33:25  <mikolalysenko>see this for example: https://github.com/mikolalysenko/vishull2d
04:33:46  <guybrush>does it cast rays or something?
04:33:51  <mikolalysenko>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentially_visible_set
04:33:59  <mikolalysenko>guybrush: no, in 2d you can do a sweep line method
04:34:01  <guybrush>i wonder if i could just grow a sphere and look for collisions haha
04:34:06  <thlorenz>actually sorry guybrush ^ was meant for you :)
04:34:33  <mikolalysenko>for 3d there is a bunch of stuff you can do, but it is complicated
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04:34:50  <mikolalysenko>there are ways to compute visibility exactly using bsp trees for example
04:35:02  <guybrush>thlorenz: i started kerninghan and ritchie's ansi-c book :D
04:35:15  <thlorenz>yeah, that is a good place to start
04:35:20  <guybrush>thlorenz: pretty much one of the best books i ever read
04:35:26  <mikolalysenko>but in general people just do things like brute force sample a bunch of rays
04:35:46  <mikolalysenko>there are also human assisted things like portal rendering and so on
04:35:49  <thlorenz>guybrush: I'm reading 21st century C right now - half way through, highly recommended
04:35:55  <mikolalysenko>but it is not a dynamic process
04:36:22  <thlorenz>guybrush: especially Part 2 - The language -- nice tricks in there :)
04:36:45  <guybrush>mikolalysenko: hmm i need some sort of pathfinding-assitance-data too so maybe that could go into 1 thing
04:38:08  <guybrush>amazing how much things there are to do, to just make a simple game haha
04:38:32  <mikolalysenko>guybrush: yeah, but this is why people use lots of frameworks and stuff
04:38:35  <guybrush>network is also a huge problem
04:38:51  <mikolalysenko>definitely, and afaik there is really no well understood general solution there
04:39:10  <mikolalysenko>and even for specific case I don't think anyone has actually written up all the details and reasoning for why it works
04:39:22  <guybrush>keeping all the different things in sync is quite a challenge for me
04:40:02  <guybrush>its not like there is some rule you can follow i think.. there are lots of different things that need different syncing-strategies
04:40:07  <mikolalysenko>to the best of my knowledge, no one has ever even written up a provably correct solution for networking pong
04:40:13  <mikolalysenko>or even given a definition of what correct means
04:40:31  <mikolalysenko>let alone anything more complicated like an fps or whatever
04:40:40  <mikolalysenko>but people still kludge through and make things that work
04:40:48  <guybrush>haha yes
04:40:56  <mikolalysenko>usually by just stamping out bugs until eventually it seems to do something reasonable
04:40:57  <guybrush>lots of tricks i guess
04:41:27  <mikolalysenko>I'm no expert in systems programming/networking, but I think it could be an interesting topic for research
04:42:22  <mikolalysenko>for example, a lot of people talk about predictor/corrector, but what exactly is that supposed to mean?
04:42:31  <mikolalysenko>what constitutes a correction?
04:42:50  <guybrush>hm i got something okish running now, i use state-buffers on everything
04:42:55  <mikolalysenko>you can't just snap objects to a new position when you get an update, you usually have to apply some kind of easing
04:42:57  <guybrush>and check against snapshots from the server
04:43:04  <guybrush>if there is something wrong i go back
04:43:10  <guybrush>and correct the prediction
04:43:23  <guybrush>by interpolating to the corrected state
04:43:55  <guybrush>but the thing is that works well for one thing, another thing might be handled completely different
04:44:01  <mikolalysenko>yeah, but it would be reassuring if there was some proof that this always works and that the results have some kind of correctness/smoothness
04:44:03  <guybrush>like the healthpoints
04:44:35  <mikolalysenko>for example, it would be neat to have a proof that says if latency is no more than x, then the "accuracy" is at least O(f(x))
04:44:38  <mikolalysenko>or something
04:44:52  <mikolalysenko>and you can then compare the asymptotic stability of different correction schemes and their tradeoffs
04:45:14  <mikolalysenko>but it seems no one does anything like this, just a bunch of crazy hacking til it works
04:45:18  <guybrush>hm i think i cant follow your thoughts, the game is deterministic anyway?
04:45:28  <guybrush>so i can always say when something is wrong
04:45:30  <mikolalysenko>for the sake of argument, how about yes
04:45:42  <mikolalysenko>but user input has to be non-determinsitic
04:45:55  <mikolalysenko>or at least there is latency there
04:46:06  <guybrush>right but there is only 1 world
04:46:10  <mikolalysenko>yeah
04:46:23  <guybrush>the world of the user is just a predicted one
04:46:31  <mikolalysenko>right
04:46:47  <guybrush>so if anything goes weird i just interpolate to the server-world somehow
04:47:06  <mikolalysenko>or something
04:47:07  <guybrush>but its not like im an expert or know all the things haha, im just hacking arround all the things :p
04:47:26  <mikolalysenko>well, the first thing is to figure out what it means to get networking right
04:47:39  <mikolalysenko>because I am still not really sure what the definition is
04:47:56  <guybrush>it surely depends on the usecase
04:48:05  <mikolalysenko>and then once you have that, try to analyze some existing methods or derive some new corrections
04:48:14  <mikolalysenko>probably does
04:48:24  <mikolalysenko>but for the sake of argument, you could try working on physics simulation
04:49:10  <mikolalysenko>lots of work is already out there on replicating discrete data and so on, but what makes games interesting is you have lots of continuous motion
04:49:19  <guybrush>i think once there is latency it just cant completely correct on the client
04:49:24  <mikolalysenko>so thinking of them as a physical system might yield a more useful definition
04:49:31  <guybrush>once there are more than 1 client
04:49:39  <mikolalysenko>I think there are similar problems in control theory though
04:49:46  <mikolalysenko>like you have laggy sensors and inputs
04:50:01  <mikolalysenko>and you want to correct the motion of a robot or adjust some control or whatever
04:50:35  <mikolalysenko>or for example in the remote control of robots or other autonomous systems
04:51:01  <mikolalysenko>anyway, I am rambling and need to go to bed
04:51:09  <guybrush>but there you dont try to predict
04:51:35  <guybrush>i mean if its something that you control it will display the actual thing and show you the latency
04:52:05  <guybrush>which in a game isnt the same thing, since you try to fake 0 latency
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04:52:26  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 2, free: 16]
04:52:31  <guybrush>mikolalysenko: have a good sleep
04:52:35  <mikolalysenko>guybrush: thanks
04:52:50  <mikolalysenko>also I just remembered this paper: http://www-devel.cs.ubc.ca/~krasic/cpsc538a-2005/papers/net504-smed1.pdf
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04:53:06  <guybrush>uh nice, thx for the link
04:53:12  <mikolalysenko>you might find it interesting, but it deals with the problem of compensating for lag in a multiplayer game
04:53:26  <mikolalysenko>one of the weird consequences is that you can use it create bullet time effects
04:53:38  <mikolalysenko>but not sure how well it actually works, and there are some strange problems with their method
04:53:57  <mikolalysenko>like applying the preception filter itself is not really well explained, and I think it is actually quite difficult
04:54:21  <guybrush>just watch the movie with dicaprio and it becomes all clear!
04:54:47  <guybrush>oh wait thats not the same thing haha
04:55:34  <jesusabdullah>Oh cool, a Herokan is sending browserify-cdn patches
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05:05:04  <ogd>zeke?
05:05:44  <jesusabdullah>Yeah
05:05:56  <ogd>he is kewl
05:06:23  <jesusabdullah>seems to be
05:06:32  <jesusabdullah>You don't need a Procfile to run node stuff there anymore
05:06:36  <jesusabdullah>THAT's cool
05:16:42  * hoobdeeblaquit
05:18:29  <groundwater>zeke is great!
05:18:50  <groundwater>yah i think the buildpack consults the package.json file
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05:42:14  <jesusabdullah>groundwater: indeed
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05:50:08  <groundwater>i forget who, but i had a chat with another heroki about how to define multiple procs in package.json, like how the Procfile can have muiltiple lines
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05:59:46  <ogd>LOL http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1w6nny/while_people_are_debating_if_bropages_is/cez7w31
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06:00:02  <dominictarr>substack, ATTN ATTN ATTN http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2014/01/robot_odyssey_the_hardest_computer_game_of_all_time.html
06:00:10  <dominictarr>SOME ONE HAS ALREADY DONE IT!
06:00:11  <LOUDBOT>GO MERGE THE UDP STUFF
06:00:34  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: I was reading that! Crazy stuff
06:00:47  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: "It can't be done. --Alan Kay"
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06:11:44  <dominictarr>substack, hey, can you merge https://github.com/substack/testling/pull/19#issuecomment-33331042 ?
06:16:08  <substack>dominictarr: doesn't merge cleanly anymore
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06:18:27  <dominictarr>what if I fix it?
06:18:43  <dominictarr>substack, also, I really want to fix testling css
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06:18:58  <substack>if you fix it, sure
06:19:19  <substack>what's wrong with the css?
06:19:30  <substack>the icons are aligned for me on linux in chrome
06:19:55  <dominictarr>weird
06:20:33  <dominictarr>they are broken for me on both ff and chrome
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06:39:52  <Domenic_>Wait the whole time the icons have been broken is just because they worked fine on substack's computer?!?!
06:40:03  <Domenic_>That's been broken for like a year
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06:49:26  <jesusabdullah>I mean, is that so surprising?
06:52:26  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 26]
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07:05:39  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 50.56.27.70 (dev-ie6-1)
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07:24:08  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah, want "academic" variant of doge that uses computer modern instead of comic sans
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07:25:02  <jesusabdullah>hahaha
07:25:08  <jesusabdullah>best font
07:25:39  <dominictarr>SO CREDIBLE, MUCH CITATIONS!
07:25:40  <LOUDBOT>PUT IT SOMEWHERE DAMN IT
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07:28:10  <jesusabdullah>SUCH TYPESET
07:28:10  <LOUDBOT>INGRESS COMES FROM HERE
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08:00:12  <dominictarr>my mad science has just come full circle, and is turning into sane science http://dominictarr.github.io/crypto-bench/
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08:15:57  <dominictarr>ogd, yo
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08:48:17  <grncdr>dominictarr: this graph is confusing: https://github.com/dominictarr/crypto-bench/blob/master/results.md#sha1-bytes-hashed-per-millisecond
08:48:49  <grncdr>the label at the top is bytes/ms (size/time) and then the caption says (time/size)
08:49:04  <grncdr>is lower better? or not?
08:49:05  <grncdr>D:
08:50:52  <grncdr>actually a bunch of the "lower is better" and "higher is better" labels seem counterintuitive
08:51:34  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: how did you get computer modern on there? Is all that by-hand or..?
08:51:59  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: embedded fonts always looked painful to me :(
08:52:26  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 40]
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08:53:07  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: going to bed but, like, idk hit me back on twatter or something
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09:02:00  <dominictarr>ircretary, tell jesusabdullah it's all in the github.com/dominictarr/crypto-bench repo
09:02:01  <ircretary>dominictarr: I'll be sure to tell jesusabdullah
09:02:31  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: Is there a more official location than https://github.com/dominictarr/crypto-bench/tree/master/static/serif ?
09:02:36  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: Yeeah, I didn't go to bed
09:03:19  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: also I wanna see what blog.jesusabdullah.net looks like with cm
09:03:21  <jesusabdullah>^__^
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09:08:39  <dominictarr>I just searched for computer modern and found something.
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09:10:14  <jesusabdullah>o.
09:10:30  <jesusabdullah>One of us should make that a separate github repo
09:10:32  <dominictarr>hang on, I got a better repo
09:10:36  <jesusabdullah>oh word?
09:11:31  <jesusabdullah>I should write a crappy blog post about browserify-cdn
09:12:00  <jesusabdullah>I dislike my latest post, I want to bump it off front page
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09:19:09  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: okay actually sleeping, link me in pm or something
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09:29:55  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah, WAKE UP WAKE UP!
09:29:57  <dominictarr>https://github.com/dominictarr/computer-modern
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09:30:06  <dominictarr>ircretary, tell jesusabdullah https://github.com/dominictarr/computer-modern
09:30:06  <ircretary>dominictarr: I'll be sure to tell jesusabdullah
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09:38:13  <guybrush>dominictarr: i think there you forgot a word here: (where as .. uses binary) https://github.com/dominictarr/crypto-bench/blob/master/results.md#sha256-time-taken-against-input-size-1
09:39:00  <dominictarr>guybrush, thanks
09:40:29  <guybrush>cool analysis thanks for putting it up
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09:43:58  <dominictarr>guybrush, yeah, I figured it I could goad other implementers into improving their performance, but without having to make pull requests
09:45:42  <guybrush>haha nice idea :D
09:46:37  <guybrush>but imho crypto should come from the browser via native api (im not an expert)
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09:47:20  <guybrush>though having crypto in js is usefull for sure anyways
09:48:04  <dominictarr>guybrush, absolutly
09:48:50  <dominictarr>we need to do it in javascipt so that we can figure out what we need, and what works, and then the spec commities can pave the cowpaths - that is the best way to arrive at standards.
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10:39:09  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: At least 10 people waiting in the queue for free servers! (Waiting: 10)
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13:00:10  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.56.27.70(dev-ie6-1)
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16:21:56  <mmalecki>ircretary: tell dominictarr to hit me up when around :)
16:21:56  <ircretary>mmalecki: I'll be sure to tell dominictarr
16:22:03  <mmalecki>ircretary: thanks!
16:22:03  <ircretary>mmalecki: You're welcome :)
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18:21:05  <dominictarr>mmalecki, yo
18:22:00  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr, mmalecki, hello!
18:22:11  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr you never linked me the better link for the web cm action
18:23:09  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: Thing is I always kinda wanted to make my blog look latex-y and after seeing your blog post this is obviously the major missing piece (aside from like, mathjax or something)
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18:27:56  <dominictarr>http://github.com/dominictarr/computer-modern
18:28:34  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah, this is just markdown in computer modern serif
18:28:51  <dominictarr>oh, by the way, I have another module - himark
18:28:52  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: yeah I know!
18:28:56  <jesusabdullah>himark?
18:29:01  <ogd>dominictarr: ack
18:29:25  <dominictarr>that highlights markdown code with the same colours as github
18:29:27  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: that's why it's so awesome!
18:29:32  <jesusabdullah>oh, word
18:29:48  <jesusabdullah>ugh, crappy thing with using github for blogging is the CONSTRAINTS
18:29:51  <dominictarr>which, if you set it in Computer Modern Typewriter Light, looks amazing.
18:30:06  <jesusabdullah>But I guess I'm not above running the generation myself
18:30:18  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah, well, this isn't a blog, it's a paper
18:30:28  <jesusabdullah>right but *I'm* blogging
18:31:00  <ogd>ahh none of them are fixed width?
18:31:05  <dominictarr>oh, sure, well you don't have to put it on github
18:31:14  <jesusabdullah>Yeah except that's the url
18:31:18  <dominictarr>ogd, the "typewriter" fonts are
18:31:38  <jesusabdullah>I guess I could make blog.jesusabdullah.net actually go there instead of 302ing
18:31:47  <jesusabdullah>and after a while just, like, scooot
18:31:58  * defunctzombie_zzchanged nick to defunctzombie
18:32:07  <AvianFlu>jesusabdullah: what does it do now?
18:32:21  <jesusabdullah>AvianFlu: 302 to jesusabdullah.github.io
18:32:22  * occamshatchetquit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
18:32:44  <AvianFlu>oh word
18:32:47  <jesusabdullah>Alternately, self-host my blog and just change the content of jesusabdullah.github.io
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18:34:17  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah, just use static + discus for comments
18:34:48  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: I use reddit and twitter for comments ;D
18:34:49  <dominictarr>people are probably already signed up to that, so will be easy.
18:35:01  * defunctzombiechanged nick to defunctzombie_zz
18:37:06  <dominictarr>impossible to have a adult discussion on twitter.
18:37:19  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: holy crap this is AWESOME
18:37:20  <dominictarr>reddit would work if adults used it.
18:38:35  <ogd>dominictarr: here is Typewriter Light on the left vs Century Schoolbook Mono on the right (my font of choice for the last couple of years) http://i.imgur.com/Box2dl6.png
18:38:51  <ogd>dominictarr: as you can see they are similar, but i think I like Typewriter Light's.... lightness
18:40:28  <dominictarr>ogd, yeah, csbm is just a little heavy.
18:41:35  <ogd>the capital O in Typerwriter Light is weird
18:42:05  <gildean>ogd: i like the right one better, less condensed and lighter
18:42:13  <ogd>http://i.imgur.com/pM8w7ic.png
18:42:18  <gildean>ogd: i mean the left one
18:43:39  <ogd>from a snap judgment aesthetic point of view the left one wins, but I will say that i've used the right one for the last couple of years and it never bugged me beyond the first couple of days of getting used to it
18:44:28  <dominictarr>ogd, what does 0 look like in comparison to O ?
18:44:41  <dominictarr>I'm certainly used to an oval zero and a round O.
18:45:57  <ogd>zero is more oval, capital O is more rectangular
18:46:12  <jesusabdullah>AWWWW SICK http://jesusabdullah.github.io/
18:46:15  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: ^^ lol
18:52:26  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 2, free: 64]
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18:54:10  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah, the problem though is that one must use a fairly formal tone if the full effect of computer modern is to be realized.
18:54:26  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: You clearly haven't read any of my papers ;D
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18:58:14  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah, you gotta fix the code bit, it's totally out of place looking like that.
18:58:43  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: Yeah, been thinking about that. Looked better when it was all sans-serif'd
18:58:54  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: I think white bg, some off-color for the code itself
18:59:55  <dominictarr>use typewriter light for the code
19:00:10  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.56.27.70(dev-ie6-1)
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19:02:40  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: At least 10 people waiting in the queue for free servers! (Waiting: 10)
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19:07:15  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: it's already typewriter light, just crappily colored
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19:07:52  <mmalecki>dominictarr: heya
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19:08:10  <jesusabdullah>yeeeah so legit
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19:13:01  <dominictarr>mmalecki, whats up?
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19:13:28  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah, use github highlighting, it's very tasteful!
19:15:08  <dominictarr>I actually have to look up the syntax for switch statement - that is how often I use switch.
19:20:31  <jlord>Is there are twitter node module that people love and prefer?
19:20:44  <jlord>I want to get DM'd everytime my sever goes down
19:20:58  <jlord>or -- if and when -- my server goes down :)
19:21:17  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: do you know of a way to make github pages do that?
19:21:24  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: that's why I never bothered.
19:22:08  <dominictarr>no, github pages don't do that, but I reverse engineered it and put it in himark
19:22:41  <groundwater>ogd / Raynos http://npkg.org/
19:22:55  <Raynos>OH HI
19:23:14  <groundwater>Raynos you were asking before about the list of node-os modules
19:23:29  <groundwater>felt it was time to document them
19:23:30  <Raynos>nice one
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19:26:31  <rvagg>jlord: ntwitter is what I use, it's not perfect but i'm not sure if there's anything better
19:26:39  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: so yeah, as long as I keep using gh pages this is as good as I can do. Might move off someday though
19:27:09  <jesusabdullah>rvagg: jlord: ntwitter hasn't been maintained in ages. It's a minefield, but yeah, you'll just have to bite the bullet and dig through some stuff. Perhaps start at ntwitter's network graph.
19:31:12  <rvagg>https://github.com/polyhack/npmau-tweets/blob/master/npmau.js#L13-L15
19:31:34  <rvagg>there's little things like that you have to do to make it work, thankfully you can post directly to the twitter api with it so it's not too hard to hack around the problems
19:31:58  <jlord>rvagg jesusabdullah, oh, that's a bummer. ogd is telling me to use 't' the gem
19:32:24  <rvagg>WHAT???
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19:32:37  <rvagg>STONE THE GEM USER!
19:32:38  <LOUDBOT>I MUST BE LOUDER TO OVERTAKE SUBSTACK
19:32:57  <jlord>haha, well apparently it's good
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19:33:50  <ogd>its a CLI gem that is better maintained than anything on npm that i've seen
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19:42:13  <jesusabdullah>I'd believe that
19:42:29  <jesusabdullah>I kinda wanna learn enough ruby to be able to be like, "y'know what I bet someone else has a better module for this"
19:42:37  <jesusabdullah>then again I could do that for python too
19:42:42  <jesusabdullah>I need to be a better polyglot :(
19:43:40  <creationix>ruby is a very nice language
19:43:43  <creationix>python too
19:43:52  <creationix>though jack is the best ;)
19:43:59  <creationix>lua is pretty nice too
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19:44:08  <creationix>php not so much
19:44:12  <jesusabdullah>hahaha
19:44:21  <jesusabdullah>I'm almost more concerned about ecosystem than the language Per Se
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19:44:53  <creationix>well, ecosystem wise, python and ruby are very mature. Their package managers are older, but work great for most workflows
19:45:01  <creationix>lua doesn't really have an ecosystem
19:45:20  <creationix>jack will have an awesome package manager via tedit, but that doesn't exist yet
19:45:27  <jesusabdullah>Yeah see? XD
19:45:43  <jesusabdullah>I already know a fair bit of python just rusty with it
19:45:47  <jesusabdullah>ruby, not so much
19:45:55  <jesusabdullah>I started going through rails tuts though
19:45:59  * creationixhas worked professionally in ruby, python, and lua. Even spoken at ruby conferences
19:46:02  <jesusabdullah>and no, I'm not letting rails ruin ruby for me
19:46:14  <creationix>I hate rails, but that's just me
19:46:20  <jlord>y'all that was super easy with 't' -- i'm done already!
19:46:31  <creationix>jlord, yay!
19:46:43  <creationix>jlord, also, how are you liking github's culture?
19:46:44  <jesusabdullah>jlord: gist?
19:46:51  <jlord>here's hoping it never dms me though! long live my server!
19:46:56  <jesusabdullah>uuuuuugh I have to dooooo thiiiiiings today
19:47:00  <jesusabdullah>I hate doing things
19:47:00  <tim_smart>lua!
19:47:04  <tim_smart>Love lua
19:47:21  <spion>https://love2d.org/ ? :D
19:47:27  <tim_smart>I wish javascript was lua sometimes
19:47:28  <pkrumins>jesusabdullah: part 4: http://www.catonmat.net/blog/windows-through-ssh/
19:47:41  <jlord>creationix: I like it -- I mean, I love the freedom, that's the best part.
19:47:41  <creationix>tim_smart, me too, but sadly, it's not
19:47:57  <jesusabdullah>pkrumins: word
19:48:09  <jesusabdullah>I HAVE considered love2d
19:48:11  <creationix>jlord, that's great. I just hear so many horror stories about brogrammer culture I was worried you wouldn't enjoy it
19:48:12  <jesusabdullah>but I have canvas
19:48:27  <jesusabdullah>XD
19:48:45  <creationix>jesusabdullah, webgl in node with direct joystick input is fun
19:48:50  <jlord>creationix: it's really not so bad, it's less brogrammer and more casual, friendly hangout style
19:49:00  <creationix>jlord, good to hear.
19:49:06  <jesusabdullah>creationix: Can you joystick in browser? I don't remember
19:49:13  <creationix>jesusabdullah, yep
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19:49:16  <jesusabdullah>GOOD
19:49:30  <creationix>jesusabdullah, http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/doodles/gamepad/
19:49:46  <jesusabdullah>creationix: excellent.
19:49:57  <jlord>jesusabdullah: I'll do a gist!
19:50:02  <jesusabdullah>ugh I have to go to the PHARMACY
19:50:04  <jesusabdullah>UGH
19:50:16  <jesusabdullah>I'm going to complain about this for at LEAST 10 more minutes before I actually go!
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19:50:50  * creationixgoes back to implementing a npm-like ecosystem using submodules alone
19:52:26  <rowbit>Daily usage stats: [developer: 61, free: 961]
19:52:26  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 4, free: 44]
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19:56:58  <jlord>jesusabdullah: https://gist.github.com/jlord/8656002
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19:59:39  <jlord>o/ using t gem to get dms when your server goes down
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20:18:00  <jesusabdullah>jlord: wait, holy shit
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20:18:33  <jesusabdullah>jlord: that's amazing
20:19:10  <dominictarr>jlord, what if the twitter bot server goes down?
20:19:21  <dominictarr>maybe you need a third server with an IRC bot on it.
20:19:39  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: bahhh
20:21:13  <jesusabdullah>jlord: in ruby is * unpacking?
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20:23:28  <jesusabdullah>isaacs: would you recommend fastly?
20:24:54  <jesusabdullah>isaacs: thinking about putting a real cdn in front of wzrd.in
20:27:01  <jesusabdullah>jlord: what is reprobot?
20:27:43  <jesusabdullah>jlord: oh, workshopping, cool!
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20:52:26  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 47]
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21:06:10  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 50.57.72.69 (free7)
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21:06:52  <isaacs>jesusabdullah: Fastly is awesome.
21:06:54  <groundwater>ruby cli development has some clunky bits
21:07:09  <isaacs>jesusabdullah: very solid service, super configurable, great support.
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21:28:59  <defunctzombie>fastly is teh awesome
21:29:16  <defunctzombie>I just wish it didn't have this stupid 50$ per month no matter what charge
21:29:23  <defunctzombie>would be nice to pay for what I use
21:29:28  <defunctzombie>not a fixed cost
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21:37:51  <groundwater>defunctzombie any compare/contrast to cloudflare?
21:38:22  <defunctzombie>haven't used cloudflare
21:38:31  <defunctzombie>I think of cloudflare as ddos protection
21:38:37  <defunctzombie>I think they want to run your whole site typically
21:38:41  <defunctzombie>or proxy the whole site
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21:50:57  <groundwater>defunctzombie_zz yah, they sit in front of your whole site, and CDN the pieces they think are static
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21:52:26  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 38]
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22:06:23  <defunctzombie>groundwater: yea.. I don't want/need that
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22:15:37  <groundwater>defunctzombie yah no problem, honestly i think i've only ever used them because they're free
22:15:48  <groundwater>also they obscure your IP, for the paranoid
22:17:26  <jesusabdullah>isaacs: I see!
22:17:58  * hoobdeeblajoined
22:18:03  <jesusabdullah>defunctzombie, groundwater, either of you have a pay-for-what-you-use cdn to recommend? Fastly sounds cool but idk if I could justify that much coin given what I assume is relatively low traffic
22:18:26  <defunctzombie>jesusabdullah: use the free tier of it
22:18:42  <defunctzombie>jesusabdullah: honestly have no idea what the difference is between that and the pay 50$ per month version
22:18:48  <defunctzombie>or use aws cloudfront
22:18:54  <defunctzombie>that is decent but a bit confusing
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22:19:57  <jesusabdullah>cloudfront tbh is probably Good Enough
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22:31:12  <rvagg>feross: readable-stream@1.0.25-1 has your change in it
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22:52:26  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 25]
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23:27:28  <jesusabdullah>substack: http://imgur.com/xMIqkBi
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23:33:19  <jlord>dominictarr: haha, well, I guess I hope it doesn't
23:33:37  <jlord>jesusabdullah: * unpacking? I don't know what that is
23:34:02  <jesusabdullah>jlord: Like, thing(*[1,2,3]) -> thing(1,2,3)
23:34:08  <jesusabdullah>jlord: kinda like .apply I guess
23:35:05  <jlord>jesusabdullah: dang, I don't know about those things either :/ I also definitely know nearly nothing about ruby
23:35:14  <jesusabdullah>Oh dang :(
23:35:20  <jesusabdullah>I was hoping you were a RUBY WIZ
23:35:28  <jesusabdullah>It's cool you can be an everything-else-wiz
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23:35:47  <jlord>haha heck no! not at all. Anytime I interact with it at GH, I just type whatever the readme says to type.
23:36:14  <jlord>I've not had to actually write any of it though -- just run builds or install things
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23:36:39  <jesusabdullah>What's your day-to-day there jlord ?
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23:37:09  <jlord>jesusabdullah: well for the last month I've been building this workshopper/reoborobot, which has been awesome cause it's all node and js
23:37:26  <jesusabdullah>Oh word
23:37:36  <jesusabdullah>That's cool that they're paying you to do that ^__^
23:37:38  <jlord>before that I bounced around a couple of things giving them frontend help
23:37:45  <jlord>touching coffeescript
23:38:03  <jlord>and then before that from when I started, I was building government.github.com
23:38:43  <jlord>Next I'll be working on stuff for .com focused on new users
23:40:08  <jlord>I'm pretty pumped about that, it'll have lots of overlap with the workshopper I just built. It's all about how can we make it so that when new, non devleopers join GitHub, they can learn and become a part of the open source community
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23:42:41  <grncdr>(process.env.WHATEVER = undefined) === 'undefined' <- has this always been a thing?
23:42:53  <jesusabdullah>jlord: can you alias guvmint.github.com to government.github.com plzkthx
23:42:53  <grncdr>it is.. not good
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23:43:30  <jlord>haha
23:43:35  <jesusabdullah>awww 404 ;_;
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23:43:47  <jesusabdullah>GUVMENT KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY GITHUB
23:43:48  <LOUDBOT>MY CAR MAKES ME GO WARGHGHBRGLRLLLRGH
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23:52:26  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 24]
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