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00:09:02  <owen1>anyone heard about brick? https://github.com/mikeal/jsfest2014-cfp/issues/82
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00:55:16  <rvagg>ogd: nice nodejsreactions; probably better on there than in learnyounode anyway!
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01:13:27  <AvianPhone>HEY IT'S SNOWING I'M GONNA BUILD A NODE SNOWMAN TOMORROW
01:13:28  <LOUDBOT>PORK LOBBY UP IN YOUR BUTCHER'S STEALING YOUR OTHER WHITE MEAT
01:15:59  <othiym23>whoah
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01:18:53  <AvianPhone>DAMN RIGHT IT'S SCARY
01:18:53  <LOUDBOT>KIDS THIS IS WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH A COMPUTER SCIENCE DEGREE
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04:12:50  <ogd>bash question: i have a string in node that i want to store as a file on a remote machine, so i've been doing:
04:12:53  <ogd>exec("echo 'my string' | ssh admin@server.com 'sudo cat - > /path/to/file'")
04:13:03  <ogd>but i get bash: /etc/nginx/conf.d/taco.conf: Permission denied
04:13:20  <ogd>(where /etc/nginx/conf.d/taco.conf is /path/to/file)
04:13:23  <ogd>groundwater: o/
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04:13:42  <ogd>am i using sudo incorrectly?
04:16:47  <ogd>ahhh replacing 'sudo cat - > /path/to/file' with 'sudo tee -a /path/to/file' does the trick
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04:34:47  <jjjohnny>does web workers work well?
04:34:48  <jesusabdullah>Is it just me or is everything in rails dumped into the same global namespace?
04:34:48  <jjjohnny>or
04:34:52  <jesusabdullah>jjjohnny: no idea
04:34:55  <jesusabdullah>hahaha :D
04:35:02  <jjjohnny>why do i care about using typedarrays so much
04:35:25  <timoxley>jesusabdullah: yep. seems insane to me
04:35:38  <jesusabdullah>timoxley: It's driving me up the wall
04:35:45  <timoxley>they have major problems with dependencies
04:35:48  <jesusabdullah>timoxley: I'm like, "where the fuck did THAT come from??"
04:35:56  <timoxley>since you can't load the same thing more than once
04:36:17  <timoxley>jesusabdullah: plus rails does heaps of monkeypatching
04:36:21  <jjjohnny>cuz if i gotta serialized typed arrays to regular objects, in exchange for a thread, what
04:36:28  <jesusabdullah>timoxley: examples?
04:36:34  <timoxley>jesusabdullah: active_support
04:36:43  <jesusabdullah>timoxley: the tutorial be all like, "its a dsl lol dont worry about what the things do"
04:36:44  <timoxley>adds magic to all the primitives
04:36:57  <jesusabdullah>Wait like, for activerecord n' shit?
04:37:06  <timoxley>http://guides.rubyonrails.org/active_support_core_extensions.html
04:37:25  <timoxley>ugh that site is verbose
04:37:27  <jesusabdullah>I was just reading a rake task and I'm pretty sure your models are in the same namespace
04:37:49  <jesusabdullah>holy shit
04:37:55  <jesusabdullah>that's CRAZY
04:38:03  <timoxley>jesusabdullah: e.g. http://api.rubyonrails.org/classes/ActiveSupport/TimeZone.html
04:38:17  <timoxley>gives you Time.zone
04:38:22  <timoxley>everywhere.
04:38:30  <jesusabdullah>what the fuck
04:38:36  <timoxley>what the fuck
04:38:39  <jesusabdullah>Why did this seem like a good idea
04:38:40  <jesusabdullah>Like
04:38:48  <jesusabdullah>So many of the other ideas in rails are at least sane
04:38:52  <jesusabdullah>some are even good
04:38:56  <jesusabdullah>but, like.... wow
04:39:12  <jesusabdullah>Like, the namespace thing, that could be like, "oh, ruby just sucks at dependencies"
04:39:25  <jesusabdullah>The code generator's a mixed bag
04:39:45  <jesusabdullah>the asset pipeline's kinda scary but still useful and easy enough to rip out
04:39:47  <jesusabdullah>but, like
04:40:12  <ogd>dangit bash and linux are hard
04:41:39  <jesusabdullah>ogd help a rails design decision has made me go bonkers
04:47:27  <jesusabdullah>*ugh* I might still go through with building something with it
04:47:39  <jesusabdullah>even if it butchers your environment
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05:04:06  <grncdr>ogd: what up with linux & bash?
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05:04:18  <grncdr>also jesusabdullah… just read the scrollback…
05:04:23  <grncdr>:(
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05:04:39  <grncdr>rails is super infuriating that way
05:05:12  <grncdr>btw, you *can* put your shit in a namespace, but nobody does
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05:06:58  <grncdr>s/namespace/module/
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05:18:11  <kumavis>ogd i would have echo'd the string to a tmp file and then used scp to dump it on the other machine
05:21:10  <ogd>kumavis: problem there was that scp didnt have permissions since it is a non-root user but i have passwordless sudo turned on
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05:22:29  <kumavis>ogd so what did you do, change user permissions?
05:22:47  <ogd>kumavis: nope i just ran tee with sudo which worked
05:24:04  <kumavis>i had not encountered tee before, learned somn new
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05:39:40  <othiym23>Domenic_: are you still awake?
05:39:52  <Domenic_>othiym23: yeah definitely, working on my comparison doc
05:40:06  <othiym23>how'd the discussion go? have you done that yet?
05:40:34  <Domenic_>othiym23: nope, it's happening tomorrow. i might be able to snag you an invite if you want... we already got isaacs on it, but you have cred as an implementer now :)
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05:40:56  <othiym23>I'm reading the description of BaseWritableStream.close, and in step 2 ('waiting'), it doesn't specify a return value
05:41:03  <othiym23>is that intentional or an oversight?
05:41:14  <othiym23>for BaseWritableStream.write, it returns the promise
05:41:43  <othiym23>Domenic_: if you want another person with experience with your proposal, I'm happy to join, but I don't want to just be there for whatever because too many cooks etc
05:41:53  <Domenic_>hmm hmm.
05:42:10  <Domenic_>Probably not necessary, just wanted to givey ou the invite since you earned it.
05:42:13  <Domenic_>Looks like an omission...
05:42:34  <Domenic_>Yeah it should just return `promise`
05:43:29  <othiym23>k thanks
05:43:34  <othiym23>should I file a bug, or are you on it?
05:43:52  <Domenic_>Fixed :). Errr wait fixed in a branch, hold on.
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05:54:42  <Domenic_>othiym23: Raynos: comparison at https://gist.github.com/domenic/c5995bc29f97c05107ee
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05:57:23  <othiym23>Domenic_: some of this promise stuff gets pretty hinky because the ES6 Promise API doesn't support post hoc extraction of the resolver and rejecter
05:57:47  <othiym23>Domenic_: and I don't have WeakMaps in ES5 to stash them in while I wait to see if I'm going to need them later
05:57:52  <Domenic_>othiym23: yeah, that's fair. we're using them kinda ... innovatively.
05:58:12  <othiym23>so where do you think I should put them that's relatively hygienic?
05:58:16  <Domenic_>Well, lack of WeakMaps generally means you're screwed for stashing things, whether they be promise resolvers or private properties
05:58:33  <othiym23>I could stash them in the {type, promise, data} object
05:58:36  <Domenic_>I think your existing approach was pretty good. Just treating them like other private properties.
05:58:41  <Domenic_>oh i ee
05:58:44  <othiym23>yeah, but this is per-chunk
05:58:49  <Domenic_>yeah per chunk is harder
05:58:54  <Domenic_>probably stash them there, with underscores
05:59:01  <othiym23>will do for now
05:59:08  <Domenic_>in my mind whenever I see underscores I think "this really belongs in a weak map"
05:59:13  <othiym23>yeah
05:59:28  <othiym23>I could use Kris & Raynos & mmiller's WeakMap polyfill, I guess
05:59:43  <othiym23>would you suggest that?
05:59:58  <Domenic_>Meh seems more trouble than it's worth
06:00:05  <Domenic_>I used WeakMaps in the promsies reference implementation
06:00:11  <Domenic_>and ever since I've been complaining about how unusable that thing is
06:00:27  <Domenic_>(the reference implementation, not the WeakMaps)
06:00:36  <Domenic_>keeping it simple with underscores seems fine
06:00:55  <othiym23>OK
06:01:17  <Domenic_>in pure ES6 we can use PromiseResolve https://github.com/domenic/promises-unwrapping#promiseresolve--promise-resolution- etc.
06:01:18  <othiym23>(trying to not "cheat" and see how Raynos did it, because I do like the idea of two separate implementations)
06:01:25  <Domenic_>haha :)
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06:03:33  <othiym23>Domenic_: would those abstract operations be exposed somewhere in userland (sorry if I read the docs too quickly and overlooked that)
06:03:35  <Raynos>othiym23: how i did what ?
06:04:02  <Domenic_>othiym23: nope, not in userland. You can't go around resolving other peoples' promises, that'd be crazysauce!
06:04:22  <othiym23>except you're doing it all over in this spec... *cough*
06:04:27  <Domenic_>But specs and implementers would get access to them. %%PromiseResolve in V8 speak I think
06:04:30  <Domenic_>yeah
06:05:00  <Domenic_>kind of evil I guess ... but at least I never do it to ones I couldn't have theoretically done the manual way.
06:05:04  <othiym23>Raynos: solved the problem of passing the reject and resolve operations along with the promise to the doWrite method in BaseWritableStream
06:05:13  <othiym23>yeah
06:05:30  <Raynos>promise._reject
06:05:32  <Raynos>promise._fulfill
06:05:36  <othiym23>I'd never seen the need to be able to resolve a promise from the outside before this but now it seems VITALLY IMPORTANT
06:05:38  <Raynos>>_______>;
06:05:58  <othiym23>yeah well I'm doing something just as halfassed, so don't worry, Raynos
06:06:07  <othiym23>we're all in this together ( o_o)-b
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06:07:20  <Raynos>:D
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06:14:57  <othiym23>Function.prototype.bind, why must you be so expensive?
06:15:17  <Domenic_>ok folks i think i should head to sleep and try for another day of waking up less sick than before.
06:15:27  <Domenic_>thanks for all the effort. excited to keep pushing on this stuff.
06:15:53  <othiym23>this is fun!
06:15:59  <othiym23>I like this spec
06:16:06  <othiym23>implementing it is pretty smooth sailing
06:16:14  <Domenic_>:D
06:16:21  <othiym23>hope tomorrow's meeting is productive and you feel healthier, Domenic_
06:16:25  <Domenic_>that's cuz I think like a JS programmer
06:16:30  <Domenic_>thanks man, i hope so too!
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06:17:44  <Domenic_>progress on official-lookin branch:
06:17:44  <Domenic_>http://anolis.hoppipolla.co.uk/aquarium.py/output?uri=http%3A%2F%2Frawgithub.com%2Fwhatwg%2Fstreams%2Fofficial-lookin%2Findex.html&process_filter=on&process_toc=on&process_xref=on&process_sub=on&process_annotate=on&filter=&annotation=&newline_char=LF&tab_char=SPACE&min_depth=2&max_depth=6&w3c_compat_xref_a_placement=on&parser=lxml.html&serializer=html5lib&ou
06:17:44  <Domenic_>tput_encoding=ascii
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08:13:12  <ogd>brianloveswords: can you add a www. subdomain to nodeschool.io
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08:31:01  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah, simple solution to freight problem.
08:31:15  <dominictarr>just throw away everything.
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08:43:27  <dominictarr>HEY LOUDBOT, YOU WANT A BADGE TO GO WITH THAT ATTITUDE http://m.vice.com/read/unpaid-interns-with-guns
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09:16:19  <dominictarr>so, according to my recent research, you could encrypt a file just by multiplying it with a large unique prime
09:17:04  <dominictarr>must be unique, because if you reuse a key (the prime) in two messages you could easily extract that with greatest common divisor
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09:50:56  <joates>dominictarr: (feedopensource) i can probably find a-bug-a-day or i can stop at any time ;-P
09:51:07  <joates>dominictarr: related -> https://github.com/dominictarr/feedopensource/issues/31#issuecomment-33006169
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10:07:45  <joates>dominictarr: "okay relocating" btw.. very sorry if that was inconvenient yesterday :(
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10:25:58  <dominictarr>joates, no problem!
10:27:20  <dominictarr>joates, what I really want to see for iteration2 is to try and fund another project with it.
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10:39:28  <joates>dominictarr: hmm, i was under the impression that yr current funders were ok with this project consuming 2-3 iterations (to get it to a kind of release-ready state).
10:39:50  <joates>dominictarr: although i have a project i want to fund :))
10:41:19  <joates>dominictarr: .. but thats "on hold" for another 20 days.
10:53:26  <dominictarr>joates, hmm, yes. I've been working on crypto stuff last few days, i'll review the current issues - do you think we have enough things required for the next iteration?
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11:14:03  <joates>dominictarr: i do think we have "tasks", moving some tasks into an iteration issue and setting a funding goal would perhaps encourage more community participation.
11:15:36  <joates>dominictarr: the great thing about this system (i think) it's that its flexible.
11:17:38  <joates>dominictarr: i mean the next step is not "cast in stone", can move tasks in an out, raise or lower funding goal.. until we know what works, i think it just needs to be "used" :)
11:18:37  <dominictarr>yeah. sure, I just like to alternate between projects, will get back to this one shortly.
11:19:22  <dominictarr>maybe could fund npmd with it though...
11:20:20  <dominictarr>people are kind into that project...
11:25:40  <mmalecki>sup dominictarr
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12:13:01  <dominictarr>mmalecki, houdy
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12:23:40  <mmalecki>dominictarr: I'm good, how are you?
12:23:56  <mmalecki>dominictarr: I demand pics of the place you're at XD
12:24:05  <mmalecki>dominictarr: because it sounds lovely
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12:35:11  <dominictarr>mmalecki, https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=670&q=malaysia&oq=malaysia&gs_l=img.3..0l10.1735.3269.0.3525.8.6.0.2.2.0.120.418.4j2.6.0....0...1ac.1.32.img..2.6.241.q0x2LZEERJY#q=george+town+malaysia&tbm=isch
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15:19:57  <brianloveswords>ogd: added!
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16:15:32  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) SAMUEL.S.LEDYARD@... successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
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16:17:11  <jory>Cash Money Business!
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18:27:55  <Domenic_>testing
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18:30:23  <Raynos>hello :p
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18:35:15  <jesusabdullah>ugh
18:35:29  <jesusabdullah>I think today I'm gonna arrange for a pick-up of my shit
18:35:54  <jesusabdullah>(before anyone says, "u should just throw it away lol," I'm dealing with an expensive but un-sellable queen bed)
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18:37:52  <kumavis>jesusabdullah: just little nemo it to your new place
18:38:07  <jesusabdullah>little nemo?
18:38:20  <jesusabdullah>I was gonna do one of uhaul's "pods" since they double as storage units
18:38:33  <jesusabdullah>which is perfect since I don't have a drop-off location yet
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18:43:17  <kumavis>little nemo was the one where they flew on a bed through the sky
18:43:44  <jesusabdullah>orite
18:43:44  <kumavis>the remake was weird when they were fish underwater instead
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18:43:54  <jesusabdullah>Yeah I saw the remake so I was confused
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18:45:08  <kumavis>jesusabdullah: where are you moving from/to
18:45:19  <jesusabdullah>kumavis: from SLC to NYC \o/
18:45:23  <jesusabdullah>kumavis: new jorb
18:45:36  <kumavis>ah, enjoy
18:46:24  <kumavis>I kinda feel like moving away from my job to a quiet place like SLC myself
18:47:06  <kumavis>Though thats what i was doing before i moved to the city and got a job, so I suppose its a constant flux
18:47:16  <jesusabdullah>Where do you live?
18:47:21  * phatedjoined
18:47:34  <jesusabdullah>In my case, I was laid off and the best gig was in NYC
18:49:07  <jesusabdullah>pretty jazzed beyond having to move this fucking bed though
18:49:17  <jesusabdullah>If I'd known I was getting laid off I wouldn't have bought it
18:49:21  <jesusabdullah>and this move would've been WAY easier
18:49:24  <jesusabdullah>and cheaper!
18:50:03  <kumavis>sf, though moving to the burbs for a bit
18:50:49  <jesusabdullah>aha
18:51:00  <kumavis>moving next door to work so i can walk instead of the 1.5 hr commute
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18:52:43  <creationix>has anyone in here designed a module system around git submodules?
18:53:31  <creationix>I think with suffecient ide support, tedit could make submodules a painless way to depend on external libraries in projects
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18:57:07  <jesusabdullah>aren't git submodules by definition painful?
18:57:08  <jesusabdullah>D:
18:57:15  <jesusabdullah>srsly tho, I've not
18:57:23  <creationix>jesusabdullah, the default interface for them is
18:57:44  <jesusabdullah>point.
18:57:48  <creationix>and they fail to record key data like the branch you're working on. So submodules are always in a detached head state by default
18:58:01  <creationix>but I can add that pretty easily I think
18:58:25  <mikolalysenko>maybe submodules could work as a kind of extension/replacement of npm link?
18:58:39  <mikolalysenko>though I have to say I kind of like the symlink semantics in the current implementation
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18:58:54  <creationix>well, for my purposes, it would replace "dependencies" in package.json
18:59:03  <mikolalysenko>hmm
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18:59:15  <mikolalysenko>I honestly prefer the dependencies/package.json system
18:59:18  <creationix>my workflow is all git-internals based and any changes to a deep dependency needs to change my tree's hash
18:59:29  <creationix>so any symbolic dependency is no good
18:59:31  <mikolalysenko>it is easier to swap out and remove modules than it is to muck about with git submodules
18:59:45  <creationix>foo@~0.1.2 is not the same thing today as it is tomorrow
19:00:02  <mikolalysenko>so you can remove the ~ if you need a precise version
19:00:09  <creationix>well, even that can change
19:00:20  <creationix>and I want ranges for my deps
19:00:25  <mikolalysenko>you can also fork the module and rehost it yourself
19:00:43  <creationix>right, but this isn't for me, it's a new workflow for beginners
19:00:51  <creationix>anything that makes it harder is not an option
19:01:24  <creationix>so one idea I have is to store a semver range along with the submodule remote
19:01:40  <mikolalysenko>I am a bit skeptical submodules will make anything easier, but then again I don't understand submodules as well as I should so perhaps I should stop talking
19:01:46  <creationix>so .gitmodules would contain {path, url, tag} instead of just {path, url}
19:02:04  <creationix>mikolalysenko, as they are used today, they are much harder. I'm trying to change them to make them easier
19:02:42  <creationix>by also recording the tag or branch, my program won't be forced to make them in detached head state
19:02:58  <creationix>also the tag can be a range like ~0.2.x that matches the best tag
19:03:23  <creationix>then when I run the equivalent to `npm update`, it will see the tag in .gitmodules and update the hash to the correct place
19:03:36  <creationix>so it would be the same workflow as npm today
19:03:45  <mikolalysenko>hmm, though npm can already kind of do that
19:04:00  <creationix>except you have the added information of the exact hash the author was using when they tested their library
19:04:01  <mikolalysenko>since it can take git urls and read the package.json directly from repos
19:04:17  <creationix>npm can't do senver ranges on git tags
19:04:27  <creationix>but it could if isaacs wanted to.
19:04:41  <mikolalysenko>it would be a nice feature to add
19:05:02  <creationix>last time I proposed it, he said it was too confusing
19:05:05  <mikolalysenko>I was under the impression that you could already do something kind of like that, but maybe I am confused
19:05:16  <creationix>you can specify a tag, but not a range of tags
19:05:17  <mikolalysenko>well, perhaps you could clean it up a bit
19:05:21  <mikolalysenko>ah, I see
19:05:23  <creationix>ranges only work for packages hosted in npm
19:05:31  <mikolalysenko>hmm
19:05:51  <Raynos>creationix: component / tj added semver stuff for git tags recently
19:05:59  <creationix>Raynos, cool
19:06:12  <mikolalysenko>I bet there is a way to make it work within the existing npm framework cleanly
19:06:18  <Raynos>yes
19:06:22  <Raynos>tj wants to PR into npm
19:06:27  <Raynos>but cant find the area of the code
19:06:28  <Raynos>where it should go
19:07:07  <creationix>anyway, even if npm gets the feature, I can't use it for my platform
19:07:18  <creationix>I need to remain compatable with cgit and github
19:07:24  <creationix>they all store submodule information in .gitmodules
19:07:44  <creationix>though I wonder what would happen if I had submodules in my tree and no .gitmodules file
19:07:54  <creationix>(because my code could just as well get the data from package.json)
19:10:10  <mikolalysenko>also, as an aside: what is there besides emscripten these days for compiling c++ -> js?
19:10:31  <mikolalysenko>and has anyone come up with any real progress on how to make emscripten work modularly?
19:11:04  <kumavis>creationix: I like the idea
19:11:16  <creationix>kumavis, which part?
19:11:50  <kumavis>npm is amazing, but something built with git primitives could have a wider ranging audience.
19:11:59  <kumavis>than the js community
19:12:57  <kumavis>and i agree the current submodules interface is none too friendly
19:14:15  <creationix>kumavis, cool, thanks. I'll see what I can come up with
19:14:15  <kumavis>creationix: what is your main motivation?
19:14:26  <creationix>this is for my dev environment for kids project
19:15:01  <creationix>one of the technical constraints is that all changes to dependencies, however deeply nested, must change the hash of the parent trees
19:15:15  <creationix>git submodules do this because they store the commit of the submodule as a tree entry
19:15:33  <creationix>and then the .gitmodules file at the root tells extra information like what repo it came from
19:15:54  <creationix>I'm proposing to add more metadata like the branch or tag (or tag range) as well as optional backup repo urls in case the first is offline
19:16:34  <creationix>and I need whatever I come up with to be compatable with github since it's such a popular code sharing site and has a good ui
19:16:39  <kumavis>ah, great i was going to request some automation around deep dependency patching
19:16:41  <creationix>they support submodules pretty well
19:17:54  <kumavis>creationix: dev env for kids is an awesome project
19:18:00  <kumavis>you have my axe etc etc
19:18:11  <creationix>and not just for kids, it will make life easier for us too
19:18:20  <creationix>I hate how complex normal web development is
19:18:26  <kumavis>yes
19:18:44  <creationix>I mean, it beats most native development, but still, we can do better
19:20:31  <creationix>heh, mayby my tool will support both npm and git dependencies and both .gitmodules and package.json
19:20:48  <creationix>I don't see any technical reason why it can't. It's just a resource problem
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19:22:11  <Raynos>creationix: https://twitter.com/tjholowaychuk/status/425844269404798976
19:22:54  <ogd>lol @ that thread
19:22:59  <creationix>Raynos, interesting. But even github goes down pretty often
19:23:39  <jesusabdullah>component.io WAS written in 2009, it was called kiwi
19:23:50  <jesusabdullah>Okay 2010 maybe
19:23:53  <creationix>though I guess if you're already using github for your main app, it's ok to depend on github for your dependencies
19:24:11  <creationix>2010 was the year I worked with TJ at Sencha and we invented Connect
19:24:24  <creationix>still not sure if I should be proud of ashamed of connect
19:24:29  <jesusabdullah>lulz
19:24:35  <jesusabdullah>I'd be proud but not TOO proud
19:24:54  <jesusabdullah>Tons of people use it
19:25:07  <creationix>if anyone has any blame/praise for the (req, res, next) format, that's all my fault/credit
19:25:29  <jesusabdullah>Not the greatest thing since sliced bread but, like, especially given the time and node's maturity, not bad
19:25:57  <creationix>though working with TJ was prertty amazing. I would travel the world giving presentations on connect while he stayed home and wrote unit tests, documentation, and fixed bugs
19:26:05  <creationix>he hated presenting and would rather do anything else
19:27:38  <jesusabdullah>haha
19:27:40  <jesusabdullah>I wonder why
19:27:50  <creationix>I think he's just shy
19:27:50  <rowbit>Daily usage stats: [developer: 17, free: 165]
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19:28:00  <creationix>works for me, I don't mind presenting
19:28:04  <jesusabdullah>Isn't everybody? XD
19:28:23  <creationix>I was, then I worked as a Mormon missionary for two years in California
19:28:34  <jesusabdullah>hahaha
19:28:37  <jesusabdullah>Yeah that would do it
19:28:39  <creationix>nothing like going door-to-door trying to get complete strangers to talk about God and the purpose of life
19:29:04  <jesusabdullah>A lot of provoans did that...in SPANISH
19:29:13  <creationix>yep, I also learned spanish
19:29:24  <jesusabdullah>Most of my old coworkers knew a second language of some kind
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19:29:27  <creationix>I spent most my time in Santa Ana
19:29:39  <creationix>jesusabdullah, that's Provo area for you
19:29:42  <jesusabdullah>Yup!
19:30:13  <creationix>personally I couldn't live there. I don't like the mormon culture (not to be confused with the religion which I fully support)
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19:33:24  <jesusabdullah>Oh? Can you elaborate?
19:33:41  <jesusabdullah>I mean, I assumed texas was more your speed considering that you LIVE there
19:33:55  <jesusabdullah>but I'm curious to hear your perspective on utah county
19:34:42  <creationix>well I grew up here in Texas where we (mormons) are an extreme minority (something like 0.2%)
19:35:13  <creationix>so those of us who go to church are seen as different by out peers. We have to either live up to the religion or cave in and stop going.
19:35:32  <creationix>in Utah, especially Provo area, it's almost expected that you are a Mormon and it doesn't mean anything special
19:35:40  <creationix>lots of people go to church who don't really beleive it
19:36:00  <jesusabdullah>Yeah, the social pressure to toe the line's pretty great
19:36:02  <creationix>to me, you shouldn't attend a church unless you're serious about it
19:36:35  <creationix>that's not to say there aren't some amazing people there. Just that I prefer being the minority for some reason
19:36:37  <jesusabdullah>I learned after I got laid off that most of my non-mo coworkers smoke, but only me and one other were comfortable enough with ourselves to take smoke breaks at work
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19:37:08  <jesusabdullah>But yeah, I feel that
19:37:19  <jesusabdullah>Cool to visit salt lake though? :)
19:37:32  <jesusabdullah>I do like SLC, the thing though is that, like
19:37:44  <creationix>yeah, I have lots of extended family there. My mom is descended from the pioneers who crossed the plains
19:38:01  <jesusabdullah>You get these cliques going on, with devout mormons on one side and pothead ski bums on the other
19:38:08  <jesusabdullah>Lack of mixing
19:38:16  <jesusabdullah>which is a little unfortunate
19:38:20  <jesusabdullah>That's really neat creationix
19:38:29  <jesusabdullah>I'm bummed I missed pioneer day
19:38:32  <creationix>my mom's parents live in south Orem
19:39:01  <creationix>we're not from Texas, I just grew up here
19:39:10  <jesusabdullah>aha
19:39:18  <creationix>I was born in New Mexico, my Mom in California and my dad in Colerado
19:39:42  * creationixalso can't speel
19:40:17  <creationix>pioneer day in Texarkana is actually pretty fun. We have good-ol Texas style BBQ and play softball and water sports
19:40:26  <creationix>there are about 200 active mormons in the county who show up
19:41:04  <jesusabdullah>Sounds like a good time
19:41:13  <creationix>some people drive as much as 60 miles to come to church. That's dedication. I only drive about 15 miles and go twice a week since I'm in charge of the teenagers
19:41:35  <jesusabdullah>Yeah, I knew a family in my hometown that would drive that far
19:41:36  <creationix>the nearest temple is in Dallas, about 3 hour drive
19:41:54  <creationix>we try to go once a month, but it's hard with kids needing babysitting
19:42:04  <jesusabdullah>I think AK has more mormons per capita than your neck of the woods XD
19:42:49  <jesusabdullah>I'm not sure what the history is, but yeah, it's not all that unusual in alaska to be mormon
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19:43:34  <creationix>dunno, the main concentrations are California, Idaho, Utah, Arizona, etc..
19:43:47  <creationix>Provo being the densest I think
19:44:05  <jesusabdullah>Yeah I'd believe that
19:44:21  <creationix>what's fun is trying to fine a church when I travel to Europe
19:44:27  <creationix>or China!
19:44:53  <jesusabdullah>oh geez I bet!
19:45:06  <ogd>creationix: have you been to the Oakland temple? I live practically underneath it now
19:45:18  <creationix>ogd, yes, I love that neighborhood
19:45:21  <ogd>i was just up there for their christmas lights display
19:45:25  <ogd>they have quite the view
19:45:45  <creationix>yep. When I lived in Sunnyvale, we went there at least once a month
19:45:51  <ogd>oh sweet
19:46:02  <creationix>the chapel next to it is pretty massive too
19:46:12  <creationix>it's fun to explore, lots of secret passages
19:46:43  <creationix>ogd, what's that big park near you. I often took the kids there hiking when we went up that way
19:47:10  <ogd>joaquin miller park, lots of trails and mountain biking
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19:47:18  <creationix>yep, that's the one
19:47:58  <jesusabdullah>you live in the hills ogd ?
19:48:36  <ogd>jesusabdullah: im at the bottom of the hills off macarthur blvd
19:48:52  <creationix>The only places in Oakland I've been to are the temple, that park, mikeal's old house, couchdb's old office and mranney's old house
19:49:06  <ogd>hah nice
19:49:11  <jesusabdullah>Oh neat
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19:49:52  <creationix>I still want to have a mini conference in my backyard sometime
19:50:10  <creationix>2-acres is enough for at least 30 people right?
19:50:54  <creationix>transportation is the tricky part. The nearest big airport is Dallas
19:51:11  <jesusabdullah>I was thinking burning man
19:51:29  <creationix>well, I assume most people will be alone and want their own tent
19:51:45  <jesusabdullah>It would probably be the ultimate in, "way to make your conferences accessible to people that don't want to listen to tech talks on acid"
19:51:57  <creationix>lol
19:52:43  <creationix>I once got stuck in burning man traffic jam. I was coming back from Salt Lake driving to Sunnyvale
19:53:02  <ogd>creationix: do you identify as living in Arklatexoma?
19:53:02  <creationix>about the time we crossed into California, there were cars and trucks everywhere covered in white dust
19:53:34  <creationix>ogd, the area is usually called the Arklatex, OK gets left out
19:53:56  <creationix>I guess to honor the railroad tycoon who named the town Texarkana and also left out OK
19:54:00  <ogd>haha
19:54:19  <creationix>though to be fair, LA is also pretty far (about 90 miles to shreveport)
19:54:34  <creationix>and we're *on* the texas/arkansas border
19:55:15  <jesusabdullah>My dad likes your water tower
19:55:47  <creationix>jesusabdullah, heh, you won't believe how much the town spent on coming up with a new slogan for that tower
19:55:56  <creationix>and then the new slogan was so terrible, they reverted to the old one
19:56:02  <creationix>"twice as nice" :D
19:56:08  <jesusabdullah>there's a slogan? I thought it just said TEXARKANA in big letters
19:56:12  <creationix>that too
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19:59:15  <creationix>jesusabdullah, I haven't forgotten to send you a js-git t-shirt. I've just been busy and broke
19:59:28  <creationix>maybe I'll end up bringing them to node-conf if you're going
19:59:34  <jesusabdullah>I don't think I am
19:59:35  <jesusabdullah>:(
19:59:44  <jesusabdullah>I always get sticker shock from confs
20:00:00  <creationix>yeah, I hear ya, especialy the flight cost
20:00:00  <jesusabdullah>and haven't been in a good position to get someone to sponsor me in, well, a long long time
20:00:20  <creationix>jesusabdullah, you're working on getting a new job right?
20:00:44  <jesusabdullah>Yeah, I actually have one I just need to make the move
20:01:00  <jesusabdullah>Probably calling u-haul about their pod things later today after the vet appointment
20:01:05  <jesusabdullah>need to get Bird a health certificate
20:01:44  <creationix>we ABF upack to move back to Texas, it was a great deal
20:01:53  <creationix>it's kind of like the pod thing
20:02:20  <jesusabdullah>The single pod's cheaper, I only have a bed and a few small misc. items
20:02:30  <creationix>fair enough, I probably have more stuff
20:02:54  <creationix>send me your new address when you get there and hopefully I'll have money to send the shirt then
20:03:12  <jesusabdullah>Yeah, like the mini pod's already too big but I'm at like this pain point in shipping where you need Actual Freight but doesn't hit economy of scale
20:04:55  <creationix>can't ups the bed I guess
20:04:59  <jesusabdullah>Yeah exactly
20:05:04  <jesusabdullah>Can't sell it either
20:05:19  <jesusabdullah>Tried, the price point's just too low considering I can get reimbursement for shipping
20:05:46  <creationix>it could be worse. Good luck
20:24:40  <jesusabdullah>Yup!
20:24:51  <jesusabdullah>My only REAL concern is running out of money while waiting on paychecks
20:24:54  <jesusabdullah>but that shouldn't happen
20:25:03  <jesusabdullah>based on my RIGOUROUS MATHEMATICS
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20:27:50  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 4, free: 94]
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20:46:16  <indexzero>OHAI everyone
20:46:24  * indexzeropassed out hard, slept like 20 hours
20:46:29  <indexzero>but I'm back on it :-D
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21:18:37  <thlorenz>hey defunctzombie - after a few grueling hours I finally added clipboard support to zuul: https://github.com/defunctzombie/zuul/pull/37
21:18:47  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: taking a look
21:19:19  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: you can test it with the failing test example
21:19:27  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: cool
21:19:29  <thlorenz>at this point only the last trace gets a button
21:19:43  * cpupquit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
21:19:46  <defunctzombie>why is that?
21:19:50  <thlorenz>that's good enough IMO anything else gets unnecessarily complex and is less reliable
21:20:23  <defunctzombie>well, I know for a fact that sometimes the latest trace is crap that is withing assertion libs
21:20:28  <defunctzombie>(this my fix for stack mapper)
21:20:33  <defunctzombie>so the last trace is totally useless
21:20:45  <defunctzombie>and the third or 4th trace is actually the interesting one
21:20:53  <thlorenz>I can try to change it if you like, but in my last hours of experience trying to have multiple zeroclipboards going on is unstable (like it doesn't always work)
21:21:03  <defunctzombie>run this in the jasmine test
21:21:05  <thlorenz>well I meant the top most trace
21:21:10  <defunctzombie>zuul --ui jasmine --local -- test.js
21:21:13  <defunctzombie>yea, I understand
21:21:15  <thlorenz>ok
21:21:29  <defunctzombie>is zeroclipboard just a shitty module?
21:21:33  <defunctzombie>github does it somehow
21:21:44  <defunctzombie>they have pages with multiple clipboard things
21:22:09  <defunctzombie>I don't mind the loading in via script tag that is fine
21:22:56  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: I know, but do we really need this?
21:23:03  <thlorenz>so the jasmine thing works fine for me
21:23:13  <thlorenz>I mean a copy button on every trace?
21:23:29  <defunctzombie>what is the copy button for?
21:23:30  <thlorenz>just put a breakpoint on the last one and step backwards if you need to
21:23:33  <defunctzombie>opening in chrome devtools?
21:23:34  <defunctzombie>is that it?
21:23:38  <thlorenz>to copy the trace yes :)
21:24:04  <thlorenz>then you CMD-O CMD-V into devtools and boom the file is open with line highlighted
21:24:11  <defunctzombie>I see
21:24:21  <defunctzombie>ok.. well fix the deps
21:24:24  <thlorenz>so I feel one copy button is fine
21:24:29  <defunctzombie>and then make sure it passes the zuul tests
21:24:34  <thlorenz>what deps?
21:24:34  <defunctzombie>and merge it in
21:24:46  <defunctzombie>if anyone wants more functionality they will open an issue
21:24:46  <thlorenz>it should be fixed
21:24:57  <thlorenz>yeah, that's what I thought
21:25:07  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: remove the ~
21:25:20  <thlorenz>ah yes you mean 'fix' === pin ;)
21:25:26  <defunctzombie>correct :D
21:25:31  <thlorenz>not in my book but oh well :P
21:26:30  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: so I gotta run the entire suite with saucelabs or just locally?
21:26:40  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: sauce
21:26:44  <defunctzombie>npm run
21:26:45  <defunctzombie>er
21:26:46  <defunctzombie>npm test
21:26:57  * thlorenzdigs out saucelabs email to find account info
21:26:58  <defunctzombie>will do everything it needs
21:27:06  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: just setup your zuulrc
21:27:12  <defunctzombie>once and done :)
21:27:19  <thlorenz>I did that at work :P
21:27:24  <defunctzombie>haha
21:27:50  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 84]
21:28:28  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: nice work btw
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21:29:19  <thlorenz>thanks was mostly trial and error
21:29:35  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: that flash thing gives no feedback why it is not working
21:29:48  <thlorenz>so you gotta change one little thing at a time until you got what you need ;)
21:29:48  <defunctzombie>I bet
21:30:05  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: is it possible to base64 the swf file?
21:30:12  <defunctzombie>how big is it?
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21:30:46  <thlorenz>I doubt it - 1.91kb
21:30:55  <defunctzombie>I also wonder if they could optimize it more
21:30:57  <thlorenz>once you mess with that things may stop working again
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21:31:05  <defunctzombie>or if we can get github to share theirs
21:31:17  <thlorenz>that'd be nice
21:32:25  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: you coming to brooklynjs tonite?
21:32:35  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: can't, not in NYC
21:32:37  <thlorenz>I'm speaking about source maps and zuul will make an apperance ;)
21:32:38  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: back in Atlanta
21:32:42  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: :(
21:32:42  <thlorenz>ah oh well
21:32:44  <defunctzombie>I wish I was there
21:32:51  <defunctzombie>I totally would go if I was in nyc
21:32:55  <defunctzombie>how is all the snow?
21:33:00  <thlorenz>white
21:33:01  <defunctzombie>did you guys get 2 feet like they said?
21:33:08  <defunctzombie>really? not grey yet?
21:33:14  <thlorenz>not sure I haven't been outside much
21:33:37  <thlorenz>so I'd say about 0.5 meters of snow from looking at the roof tops
21:33:52  <thlorenz>on the roof tops it's still white
21:34:49  * thlorenzrunning all the zuul tests ........
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21:35:18  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: so awesome how easy this is to setup though
21:35:32  <defunctzombie>that was the idea :)
21:35:43  <defunctzombie>.5 meters holy shit
21:35:46  <defunctzombie>that is a lot of snow
21:36:52  <thlorenz>that's less than 2 feet :)
21:37:28  <thlorenz>actually I'm lying on second 'from the window' inspection it looks more like 0.25 meters
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21:42:08  <defunctzombie>heh
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21:44:20  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: I got this:"Uncaught Error: The environment you requested was unavailable.: {"status": 13, "sessionId": "b8ca1863f3e24c8baabea0085960a25f", "value": {"message": "Browser failed to start"}}" :(
21:44:51  <thlorenz>it was queuing iphone
21:45:45  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: passed on travis though: https://travis-ci.org/defunctzombie/zuul/builds/17437222
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21:45:49  <thlorenz>so good to merge?
21:47:11  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: yea
21:47:17  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: saucelabs shit out sometimes
21:47:25  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: I need to look into that error 13 more
21:47:43  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: actually nm this one failed: https://travis-ci.org/defunctzombie/zuul/builds/17437218
21:48:20  <thlorenz>ah, so the latest one passed -- it's a bit unstable, I'll merge though
21:48:45  <defunctzombie>yea, not sure 100% why it happens
21:48:49  <defunctzombie>this webdriver module is kinda shit
21:48:58  <defunctzombie>so many lines of code for I dunno what
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21:49:31  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: merged - you prob wanna pub this as a minor
21:49:58  * jxsonjoined
21:50:25  <defunctzombie>k, we will give it a day to marinate and see if you think of anything that was missed after using it yourself and then will pub
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22:27:51  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 1, free: 239]
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23:14:30  <groundwater>who is going to campjs?
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23:27:51  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 1, free: 184]
23:32:58  <joshwnj>groundwater: i wish i was!! but my daughter maybe going to enter the world that weekend :)
23:33:39  <joshwnj>groundwater: you going?
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23:35:58  <defunctzombie>substack: ping
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23:38:29  <substack>defunctzombie: pong
23:38:51  <defunctzombie>substack: https://github.com/defunctzombie/ripple-emulator/blob/master/lib/client/app.js#L22
23:38:56  <defunctzombie>I had to share this
23:39:02  <defunctzombie>they have some crazy build system
23:39:10  <defunctzombie>that shims in the ripple function
23:39:27  <defunctzombie>after they have concatenated various files together
23:39:31  <groundwater>joshwnj i dunno, hadn't thought about it until today
23:41:12  <joshwnj>groundwater: especially wanted to go because it's not often a tech conference is just down the road from home :) are you in melbourne?
23:41:41  <groundwater>joshwnj no i'm in SF
23:41:44  <groundwater>it would be a fair journey
23:42:53  <joshwnj>yeh it's a long flight! about to do it myself this sunday.
23:43:09  <joshwnj>location of campjs will be worth the trip in itself ;)
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23:43:34  <ogd>campjs is fun, a+ would attend again
23:45:17  <joshwnj>ogd: did you go to campjs last year in queensland?
23:49:17  <ogd>joshwnj: yep the one earlier in the year
23:51:30  <joshwnj>looks like they run a good show, i'm sure campjs3 will not disappoint
23:54:39  <groundwater>ogd you thinking of going?