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00:09:14  <defunctzombie>substack: \o/
00:09:19  <defunctzombie>someone wanna do me a favor?
00:09:35  <defunctzombie>https://gist.github.com/defunctzombie/8048471
00:09:44  <defunctzombie>put that package.json file somewhere and run "npm install"
00:09:53  <defunctzombie>tell me if it builds the bcrypt module
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00:12:38  <defunctzombie>substack: how can we make browserify faster?
00:16:51  <substack>defunctzombie: use watchify
00:17:00  <substack>then it's only slow the first time
00:17:04  <defunctzombie>substack: I already have watch stuff I use :)
00:17:10  <defunctzombie>substack: I was kinda just asking in general
00:17:19  <defunctzombie>I agree stuff like watchify helps a lot
00:17:25  <substack>does your watch code hook into the cache pipeline?
00:17:31  <defunctzombie>hm
00:17:35  <defunctzombie>let me see
00:17:45  <substack>you can require('watchify') and it exposes an API
00:18:16  <defunctzombie>substack: https://github.com/defunctzombie/node-enchilada/blob/master/index.js#L113
00:18:24  <defunctzombie>substack: I don't think so, I just listen for file events
00:18:42  <defunctzombie>only use documented browserify api, didn't know about any of the cache pipleine stuff
00:18:52  <defunctzombie>if watchify has an API I am inclined to just use that..
00:18:53  * defunctzombielooks
00:19:34  <defunctzombie>substack: interesting... I think I should be able to use watchify
00:19:42  <defunctzombie>substack: my current watch stuff worked alongside browserify
00:19:43  <defunctzombie>not over it
00:20:05  <defunctzombie>substack: the issue with watchify is that it depends on browserify
00:20:11  <defunctzombie>so I can't update browserify separate from it
00:20:35  <defunctzombie>a peerDep might have been better although I dunno if I like those yet
00:20:45  <defunctzombie>for example watchify doesn't support browserify 3 yet
00:22:33  <substack>yes that part is weird
00:22:37  <defunctzombie>substack: also.. iirc I had issues with chokidar
00:22:40  <substack>ok I'll just get rid of that part
00:22:45  <defunctzombie>or maybe it was some other file watcher wrapper
00:22:53  <defunctzombie>with high CPU usage on mac
00:23:00  <defunctzombie>I prefer using fs.watch difrectly
00:23:04  <defunctzombie>*direcrly
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00:23:07  <defunctzombie>cause you don't need the filename
00:23:10  <defunctzombie>you already know it
00:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 2, free: 21]
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00:35:55  <jjjohnny_>jesusabdullah: who you signing with?
00:36:25  <jesusabdullah>jjjohnny_: paypal's ready to extend me an offer, I'm trying to get yahoo in so I can consider both
00:36:29  <jesusabdullah>and a few others
00:36:35  <jesusabdullah>I'm really really bad at this :(
00:43:10  <jjjohnny_>jesusabdullah: man i'm trying to start a talent agency for hackers for this reason
00:43:24  <jjjohnny_>partly for this reason anyway
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00:44:23  <jjjohnny_>jesusabdullah: you should tell them to talk to your agent when they are ready to negotiate
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00:44:35  <jesusabdullah>yeah
00:44:46  <jesusabdullah>well I did learn to be very open about who else is interested
00:45:03  <jjjohnny_>yeha man go slow
00:45:08  <jjjohnny_>if you can
00:45:10  <jesusabdullah>in that every time I've mentioned a known name to someone they had a "oh shit" expression
00:46:31  <ogd>substack: nice work on merging prs
00:48:15  <jjjohnny_>jesusabdullah: I will srsly be your agent if you want one.
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00:48:54  <jjjohnny_>everything is better through an agent. its easy for an agent to say "thats not enough money"
00:49:07  <jesusabdullah>jjjohnny_: I'll just ask you for advice all the time
00:49:11  * tmcwquit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
00:49:17  <jjjohnny_>"my client had better offers from startups"
00:50:04  <jjjohnny_>jesusabdullah: "My man is far and away the best single talent acquisition you could make at this juncture"
00:50:40  <jjjohnny_>he's a first round draft pick, you think that middle-low-end salary will cut it?
00:50:48  <jjjohnny_>he's worth double
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00:52:33  <jjjohnny_>jesusabdullah: these companies want you for multiple years. you want a signing bonus, a gauranteed minimum raise each year, and a higher starting salary
00:52:47  <jjjohnny_>not beer and lunch
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00:53:30  <jesusabdullah>jjjohnny_: yeah I feel that
00:54:21  <jjjohnny_>these are the kind of things an agent can say. you get to stay mum and be like, my agent works for me, i'm staying out of the negotiations so as not to spoil the relationship
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00:56:03  <jjjohnny_>thats the biggest problem with hiring in tech, is that the talent doesn't have representation
00:56:37  <jjjohnny_>writer, actors, rappers, artists, sportsballers, all have agents who work for them
00:59:11  <jjjohnny_>good hackers are in that class of talent, no doubt about it
01:01:30  * defunctzombie_zzchanged nick to defunctzombie
01:01:36  <jjjohnny_>3l33t status
01:02:53  <jjjohnny_>worse is that the companies have reps working for them who pretend to be your friend
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01:09:21  <jesusabdullah>I feel that
01:10:24  <jjjohnny_>jesusabdullah: 0Zj+qTGOAv43+0FgvRLx6SskHMYObuiSkX8FohySNDEYbXnpAOleo6uTsPja92E0rgTGmZ6q6kiN7JoQfESup3qXQ4hOj6AZ7tWd6+P1ssoX+2PRfnkMhOMAB3W2quZ4+l/qOkpfrJOaK80DZbbrVSu99+CAa8aO4nD3YHeotBoLF/iuvFmEgpZimLIKeTNshgWomjQ5Vn9jCxfxCESsKLmZvfSoS03fvM9PTuMJe+GnfnBUou9b97nkAKCWJ/JCLYX02e+0+8cfTURI3ydTy35b0av9WUZuYfyMzO8HuDtbhYOfSG90JVjSF1NACf8wvsz8GN4AFjYZ/U+261s8VSDx6bh+Mr18tfYtPNVcMLTVyx/ptefmx6p3Dd8+E9iZ+xBkbAaAfqlT+bw7qNiNGpXJRmmrdIP2zDBK34WrRkwH7tyD
01:12:13  <substack>ogd: there are so many >_<
01:12:20  <jesusabdullah>so many whats?
01:12:22  <substack>ogd: you going to be at heroku?
01:12:24  <substack>I'm heading out soon
01:13:28  <ogd>substack: yea
01:16:18  <jesusabdullah>jjjohnny_: what's your github again? :E
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01:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 11]
01:30:19  <jesusabdullah>jjjohnny_: that or just shoot me your pubkey
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02:22:56  <grncdr>I wish npm gave you a way to talk to users of your module
02:23:32  <guybrush>grncdr: there is a way! the readme
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02:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 15]
02:24:27  <grncdr>right, but I mean like, I'm super curious why a web framework I wrote like two years ago and have only used a few times has had hundreds of downloads in the last month
02:24:33  <grncdr>https://npmjs.org/package/lazorse
02:25:15  <grncdr>I only know of a couple of production systems (that I wrote) that use it, and neither of those have actually been updated in forever
02:25:33  <grncdr>so who the hell is using it? and why?
02:25:40  <guybrush>oh, who knows what that number means :p even if it is only npm-cli installs it doesnt say much imho
02:26:04  <grncdr>right I mean it could mean nothing
02:26:22  <grncdr>it just weirds me out to think there's somebody else actually using it ;P
02:28:21  <grncdr>I guess I could deprecate it so the next time somebody installs it they get a warning in their console… but that seems pretty rude
02:29:20  <guybrush>i think its just fine to leave packages in the registry without notes about its status
02:30:24  <guybrush>if people really care they will look into dependents and general place of the module in the npm-eco, or something like that :p
02:31:05  <guybrush>i like "dont ask to publish, ask for forgiveness"
02:34:12  <grncdr>oh yeah, I'm not saying people *shouldn't* use it, if they like it, no problem
02:34:26  <substack>grncdr: it's because of the sweet pix on the readme
02:34:32  <grncdr>!
02:34:50  <grncdr>somebody has a script that looks for substack illustrated readmes
02:35:06  <grncdr>and is like "that is obvious quality there!"
02:35:20  <grncdr>my module is profiting off your brand :P
02:39:55  <defunctzombie>grncdr: if they care, they will contact you if an issue comes up
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02:53:35  <grncdr>any suggestions for what I should do with this sort of PR?
02:53:38  <grncdr>https://github.com/grncdr/node-any-db/issues/50
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03:11:43  <defunctzombie>grncdr: hahaha
03:11:51  <defunctzombie>grncdr: close it and ignore it
03:12:16  <defunctzombie>can't cater to every nonsensical item, if someone cares they will revisit the issue
03:12:27  <grncdr>true
03:12:49  <grncdr>I'm about to rip apart any-db (again) and try not to make it so over-complicated this time
03:13:24  <grncdr>I placed too much emphasis on not asking users to install an extra package
03:14:04  <grncdr>the new way I'm going to take things, other adapters should be easier to write and test without forking my ridiculous repo
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03:14:27  <grncdr>going to do a level-abstract type thing, publish a package that tests an adapter for compliance
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03:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 32]
03:33:11  <Domenic_>Defunctzombie: pong
03:33:32  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: question about the new git url behavior in npm
03:33:39  <defunctzombie>the changelog wasn't quite clear
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03:33:48  <defunctzombie>will npm always download git repos now?
03:34:12  <defunctzombie>and does the new stuff support the shorthand format?
03:34:30  <Domenic_>Defunctzombie
03:34:34  <Domenic_>Errr phones
03:34:41  <Domenic_>Yes and yes
03:34:57  <defunctzombie>if it always downloads this is a regression
03:35:21  <Domenic_>it is better to download when you don't have to than fail to download when you should
03:36:25  <defunctzombie>in what cases does it fail to download?
03:37:29  <Domenic_>it previously never downloaded git dependencies unless you explicitly changed the package.json or removed the node_modules/package folder
03:37:45  <defunctzombie>I see
03:38:15  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: why not just store the commit hash that was downloaded
03:38:23  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: and then query against that?
03:38:28  <Domenic_>that's the plan
03:38:32  <Domenic_>there's a bug open to do that
03:38:34  <Domenic_>pr welcome
03:38:35  <defunctzombie>ah
03:38:42  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: a PR against the npm codebase?
03:38:46  <defunctzombie>you must be joking :p
03:39:19  <Domenic_>:P
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03:39:41  <Domenic_>i think we mentioned that in the changelog too
03:41:19  <guybrush>not sure if i understand, but what is wrong with always "downloading" the repo
03:43:03  <guybrush>its only fetching anyway, isnt it?
03:44:47  <Domenic_>it wastes peoples' time
03:45:29  <guybrush>oh now that you say that i fully agree haha
03:45:45  <Domenic_>:)
03:45:53  <Domenic_>for reference here's the bug https://github.com/isaacs/npm/issues/4191
03:48:14  <guybrush>woah i think this is not so easy, since there is no sha in the node_modules/<module> directory
03:48:25  <guybrush>afaik
03:48:42  <guybrush>so it would have to write that into the package.json maybe?
03:49:59  <guybrush>but even then its not bullet-proof since you just cant tell that the source is _really_ the source corresponding to the sha
03:50:25  <guybrush>and cloning the repo into node_modules would bloat everything
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03:51:37  <guybrush>but! it would be cool to just pull the tarball from the local git-cache
03:51:42  <guybrush>i guess
03:52:13  <guybrush>that way you dont have to fetch remotely when the commit is in your local git-cache already
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04:00:06  <Domenic_>I think there is a sha in the node_modules
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04:03:22  <guybrush>oh you are right
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04:04:18  <guybrush>"_resolved": "git+https://github.com/dominictarr/through.git#45c64bd6d0dd8e09a8d85a2a9afb3541cb72d08a",
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04:16:45  <defunctzombie>guybrush: you can simply store the commit id that you downloaded as well
04:17:37  <guybrush>hmm i dont understand
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04:19:41  <guybrush>anyway always updating git-dependencies is huge win already :D didnt even notice
04:20:04  <defunctzombie>I just learned to manually bump the versions in package.json files
04:20:28  <guybrush>you dont like `npm version` ?
04:20:40  <defunctzombie>I do
04:20:44  <defunctzombie>I would use that
04:21:25  <guybrush>oh i see, i understood wrong you meant dependencies
04:22:44  <defunctzombie>yep
04:23:36  <guybrush>so checking againt git-sha1's, what about using only the first 8 chars?
04:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 4, free: 21]
04:24:20  <defunctzombie>guybrush: yea, should work
04:24:25  <defunctzombie>guybrush: usually unique enough
04:24:27  <guybrush>oh that should be fine, just compare the first chars of the full sha with it
04:27:23  <rvagg>I saw mention of "atomic publish" with the latest npm, I think it might have been isaacs, anyone know deets of this, is this the thing dominic was playing with recently?
04:28:23  <ogd>it just means it makes one PUT on publish instead of 3
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04:30:11  <rvagg>yeah, that's super-nice
04:30:37  <rvagg>was this dominic's thing, or was he doing something for npmd?
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04:33:53  <jiangplus>hi, is it possible to do "npm install -g" without sudo? I dont have the privilege, can I just install it into my current home dir?
04:34:14  <guybrush>jiangplus: i think --prefix is what you are looking for
04:35:40  <jiangplus>I will try, thanks
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04:35:54  <defunctzombie>substack: what do you think of browserify.bundle callback changing to
04:35:58  <defunctzombie>err, src, source-map
04:36:43  <defunctzombie>substack: looking for a way to serve the sourcemap on a different url/file and not bundled with the sources
04:36:53  <defunctzombie>something like /path/to/file.map.js
04:37:04  <defunctzombie>but I need a way to get at the sourcemap
04:37:22  <guybrush>jiangplus: you can do for example `npm i -g --prefix /home/jiangplus browserify` it will browserify in ~/lib and put a link into ~/bin
04:37:31  <guybrush>also you can set the prefix in ~/.npmrc
04:38:30  <defunctzombie>I wonder if I have to make a sourcemap separately for minified code
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04:45:29  <substack>defunctzombie: you can parse it out
04:46:05  <defunctzombie>substack: yea.. looking into how to educate uglify-js about this stuff now
04:46:21  <defunctzombie>substack: it is kinda weird cause I gotta take one sourcemap and input it into uglify and it will output another
04:46:22  <defunctzombie>haha
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04:51:13  <defunctzombie>substack: what makes the sourcemap in browserify
04:55:47  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down:
04:59:38  <feross>defunctzombie: i have an important pull request for node-util that i'm about to send over
04:59:48  <defunctzombie>feross: k
04:59:51  <feross>it fixes util.isBuffer which seems to be broken now
05:00:45  <defunctzombie>feross: is it? I thought there was a test for it
05:01:13  <feross>defunctzombie: doesn't look like there's a test
05:01:27  <feross>i'll add some tests for that
05:01:38  <feross>btw, is there a reason you don't just use Buffer.isBuffer?
05:01:50  <feross>is that so that the whole buffer module doesn't get included?
05:01:55  <feross>(for bundle size)
05:02:03  <defunctzombie>feross: yep
05:02:06  <defunctzombie>feross: exactly the reason
05:02:09  <feross>okay
05:02:33  <defunctzombie>have to make such compromises in low level modules like this
05:02:36  <defunctzombie>that we ported over
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05:07:38  <feross>yeah, that makes sense
05:07:54  <feross>defunctzombie: how do i run zuul tests?
05:08:08  <defunctzombie>feross: locally or for all the browsers?
05:08:15  <feross>either
05:08:20  <defunctzombie>feross: zuul --local 9005 -- test/index.js
05:08:26  <defunctzombie>or whatever the test scripts are
05:08:32  <defunctzombie>test/browser/*.js maybe
05:09:14  <defunctzombie>feross: for other browsers you gotta get a free saucelabs account
05:09:36  <defunctzombie>feross: https://github.com/defunctzombie/zuul/wiki/Cloud-testing
05:09:41  <feross>btw, what's the benefit of zuul over something like testling?
05:09:48  <feross>out of curiosity
05:11:16  <defunctzombie>feross: you don't have to push to test in the browsers
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05:12:05  <feross>that's neat
05:12:23  <defunctzombie>feross: I use it very heavily during development before I even commit anything
05:12:28  <defunctzombie>to verify things work
05:13:09  <defunctzombie>but in many ways it is similar to the testling CLI tool for local testing
05:13:29  <feross>i just noticed that when testing locally i don't have to rerun the zuul command before i refresh
05:13:33  <feross>that's handy
05:13:58  <defunctzombie>yep
05:14:05  <defunctzombie>it will just rebundle on demand
05:15:14  <defunctzombie>feross: I am out, so will review any pull req tomorrow
05:15:27  <feross>okay, sounds good
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05:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 17]
05:26:08  <brianloveswords>ogd: what's your npm name?
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05:39:53  <brianloveswords>THERE IS NO TESTLING, ONLY ZUUL.
05:40:19  <grncdr>brianloveswords: it's maxogden
05:40:37  <brianloveswords>grncdr: I thought so! I figured it out with some googlin' :)
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05:41:31  <grncdr>man, google knows *everything*
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06:06:28  <feross>isaacs: i have a PR for core-util-is that would make util.isBuffer work in browserify (it's currently not working)
06:06:42  <feross>isaacs: are you open to that? it's here: https://github.com/isaacs/core-util-is/pull/2
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06:10:09  <feross>substack: see ^
06:13:26  <jjjohnny_>jesusabdullah: ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAADAQABAAABAQDjqc74sfnpnCzWAS4ycs2RLDnh9EjdMKDGLL3IsFxFQw+L/duIQPwIKkkJkMMTPK0KbH7vHe6w/PCx0KH7oJ8MX6hRPOToxFQKwool4VAkJu37Inh2aoedJTn6nIw4AzhWIUHSPp59nSCNT3YJi6Ok1vq4LXsNIB66Phhv/PUSYdXRUSciQIfeK+l/pSi6MevZ+2YnsKszQoFNCxDSrEqxIwfRewKt3Orf8zcRbhsT0oZbFHlslT4LUEfdqo+FRHc83VHM/a+MEhIz8rzlxkHivfmsTrA4P88i5RkbNphVlYu5NiyqpdmIeNsYINvp1VhOXKX8H2eUH8DSDWbJxQRF
06:17:42  <jesusabdullah>oh ouch, yahoo changed their mind about this particular gig after talking to me
06:17:53  <jesusabdullah>I guess that probably means paypal
06:20:47  <feross>jesusabdullah: you were planning something node-related with yahoo?
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06:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 23]
06:24:28  <jesusabdullah>feross: Yeah kinda, I was talking to them about an internal PaaS project, they changed their minds though
06:24:33  <jesusabdullah>too weak on data structures I guess
06:24:46  <feross>consulting?
06:24:53  <jesusabdullah>they're all like, "we're looking for something that might be a better fit" and I'm like, neh
06:24:57  <jesusabdullah>not consulting, Real Job
06:25:01  <jesusabdullah>I'm unemployed feross
06:25:13  <feross>i was until 2 days age :)
06:25:16  <feross>*ago
06:25:20  <feross>my first job in my life
06:25:34  <jesusabdullah>idk I have a different job that would be a good fit, I can tell
06:25:44  <jesusabdullah>it's just like, dang, this changes everything
06:25:57  <feross>i know, getting a job can be a huge change
06:26:17  <feross>it took me like several weeks to come to terms with it
06:26:32  <feross>i was so worried that i'd lose my "hacker ethic"
06:26:40  <feross>and become lame and corporate
06:26:54  <feross>we'll see if that happens... but i'm just going to code in the evenings
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06:27:17  <feross>good luck picking a job
06:28:03  <feross>if you find a place where you can use node then it won't be *that* bad
06:28:22  <jesusabdullah>Well I've had jobs, I just got laid off a few weeks ago
06:28:32  <feross>oh sorry :(
06:28:44  <jesusabdullah>it's okay
06:28:46  <jesusabdullah>I'll have a job
06:28:51  <jesusabdullah>I just don't want to move again
06:29:02  <feross>where do you live now?
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06:29:20  <jesusabdullah>Salt Lake City
06:29:26  <jesusabdullah>just moved here this summer
06:30:00  <feross>i was moving like once every 3 months earlier in the year, all san francisco bay area, but different housing
06:30:05  <feross>and it got annoying pretty quickly
06:30:25  <feross>i kept reducing my total possessions each move until i was left with the bare essentials
06:30:41  <feross>:P
06:31:39  <jesusabdullah>jjjohnny_: QxxdiU7owgDhmycsWyPbcVXO1dzguDTtR/Hrc2pFc9sDOMl22UL3USQe6rILtrtrJn9Rl1nWwi4lbTKzvnX0UWj+pgkvWW12uMi7a+BhH/sI8/GtxbwuNf9b8MJ96Hjf3YpGgupuRkAux/+34UTBQUINZ1VmQwFWy0drW1TazkqVpH2PFYnzWVy3fnCuIM/Z17q59yuYRiER77yVwozoQiT2HyHwjqk18vTKrVNjYV+iIQR92/EvC71cVN4efTev4TTjxC7T0zBpVfcCmGBSXNh5WukTMxzqh7aMwgvCkPpSTiPXuMer5I9GRaBAqfs+PeVxyhIl/eNzS/36wZ0mBw==
06:31:46  <jesusabdullah>feross: Yeah, thing is I started to settle here
06:32:01  <jesusabdullah>feross: real bed, a semblance of actual furniture
06:32:08  <feross>haha nice
06:32:14  <jesusabdullah>:/
06:32:15  <feross>i bet you'll find something good soon
06:32:36  <jcrugzz>jesusabdullah: when you get hired, just making moving all of that a requirement
06:32:43  <jcrugzz>for your employer
06:32:43  <jesusabdullah>I will
06:32:46  <jcrugzz>but yea
06:32:49  <jesusabdullah>or at least paying for it
06:32:51  <jcrugzz>moving is more about the people
06:32:58  <jesusabdullah>yeah I guess :(
06:33:08  <jcrugzz>total new circle of people aroudn you. rebuild relationships
06:33:12  <jcrugzz>its always tough
06:33:36  <jesusabdullah>yeah
06:33:44  <jesusabdullah>I know people in the bay already
06:33:44  <jcrugzz>jesusabdullah: you'll be alright though :). any idea where you are heading?
06:34:03  <jesusabdullah>jcrugzz: Paypal sounds cool, I got along well with everyone I talked to
06:35:04  <jcrugzz>awesome, half the game is who you will be working with and if that will mesh
06:35:07  <jesusabdullah>yeah
06:35:25  <jesusabdullah>ugh between yahoo and lab49 today I'm starting to get hammered with impostor syndrome
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06:36:09  <jcrugzz>in what sense
06:36:28  <jesusabdullah>maybe I'm ultra noob? >:P
06:36:46  <jesusabdullah>you're not familiar with impostor syndrom jcrugzz ?
06:36:50  <feross>people who get impostor syndrome are most likely not impostors :) it's quite common for smart people to feel that way
06:37:06  <feross>clueless people won't ever get impostor syndrome.
06:37:37  <feross>if you feel like an impostor, that's a healthy thing as far as i'm concerned
06:37:42  <feross>(once in a while)
06:38:27  <feross>"The impostor syndrome is particularly common among high-achieving women, but there is some evidence it occurs in a comparable number of men" -- wikipedia
06:38:29  <jcrugzz>jesuabdullah: so the getting rejected from lab49/yahoo is instigating imposter syndrome? i doubt that means you are a nub. hiring criteria is still mostly a bullshit gauge
06:38:30  <jesusabdullah>I was miffed about lab49's questions earlier but now I feel silly
06:38:52  <jcrugzz>or the hiring criteria im suspecting that was used
06:39:21  <jesusabdullah>dude asked me how to float a div to the bottom of its parent container
06:39:29  <jesusabdullah>and about how hmac cookie signing works
06:39:58  <jesusabdullah>mostly the latter, the first question was kind of bullshit
06:40:20  <feross>jesusabdullah: ugh, that's the kind of thing that's cool if you know it, but not necessary to be a productive programmer at the company
06:40:42  <jcrugzz>lol you can learn how to do both of those things fairly easily
06:40:44  <jcrugzz>thats bullshit
06:40:48  <jesusabdullah>well like, why DIDN'T I know how cookies work? Maybe that IS important?
06:41:18  <jcrugzz>jesusabdullah: granted, lab49 builds software for financial companies in nyc
06:41:23  <jesusabdullah>right
06:41:28  <jcrugzz>they are probably all uppity on that shit
06:41:32  <jesusabdullah>I knew it wasn't a good fit anyway
06:41:37  <jesusabdullah>Yeah the guy sure sounded uppity
06:41:47  <jcrugzz>but still something that is easily learned
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06:42:12  <jesusabdullah>I was like, "listen buddy I'm working on backend systems these days" "o."
06:42:23  <jesusabdullah>"thank you for your time"
06:42:27  <jesusabdullah>ಠ_ಠ
06:43:26  <jesusabdullah>I could've been less sassy
06:55:02  <chapel>jesusabdullah: that sucks
06:55:16  <chapel>I remember in the spring during my job hunt
06:55:25  <chapel>I had a few leads that I felt were solid
06:56:21  <chapel>one where it was all node, I was a perfect fit, but the lead dev who did a phone interview felt my core cs wasn't strong enough because I didn't a answer big o notation question right
06:56:35  <chapel>engrish ftw
06:57:18  <chapel>did a screen with twitch.tv, they turned me down because I didn't do the merge sort to their favor
07:02:09  <chapel>jesusabdullah got a chance to meet ogd briefly as well as Nexxy, introduced myself to substack but he looked busy so I didn't bother him
07:03:08  <substack>oh I wasn't too busy
07:03:15  <substack>but cool to meet you!
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07:03:53  <chapel>yeah, cool to see people in meatspace finally
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07:05:37  <substack>jesusabdullah: haha I don't know howto "float a div to the bottom of its parent container" nor do I know how cookie hmac bullshit works
07:05:48  <substack>you tell them, you tell them substack says
07:06:32  <substack>I would just set the parent div to position: relative then use position: absolute inside so I could use bottom: n
07:06:45  <substack>but man trivia questions, what is up with those
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07:20:18  <jcrugzz>its jeopardy with a worse host
07:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 27]
07:27:48  <guybrush>mmalecki: so much ♥ for registry.npmjs.eu, its a gamechanger here in austria :D
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07:38:07  <guybrush>also our servers live in hetzner datacenters too, so its like going into the yard an pick modules like flowers
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08:06:48  <groundwater>omg.. ahahahah
08:06:49  <groundwater>http://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-dogecoin-2013-12
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09:55:56  <mmalecki>guybrush: my pleasure :-)
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10:41:05  <substack>pow https://github.com/substack/covert
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10:55:48  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down:
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11:41:16  <dominictarr>substack, see also: https://github.com/jashkenas/backbone/issues/2888
11:41:29  <dominictarr>(for your module demarcation blogpost)
11:47:35  <substack>added!
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12:22:33  <dominictarr>substack, put it right above a piccard facepalm.
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12:46:28  <dominictarr>substack, I just found the alt-cryptocurrency for you! http://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurrency/coins/hobonickels
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14:45:04  <defunctzombie>anyone got a machine with IE handy?
14:45:07  <defunctzombie>and developer tools?
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16:13:53  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: ping
16:13:59  <thlorenz>ponb
16:14:07  <thlorenz>wow - not awake yet
16:14:16  <defunctzombie>haha
16:14:30  <defunctzombie>you know a lot about this sourcemap stuff
16:14:54  <defunctzombie>so.. what I am looking for is a way to get the sourcemap separate from the source bundle
16:15:02  <defunctzombie>ideally make the callback to browserify return
16:15:04  <defunctzombie>err, src, map
16:15:16  <defunctzombie>where do I need to look to make this happen?
16:15:24  <defunctzombie>I am looking at this right now: https://github.com/substack/browser-pack/blob/master/index.js
16:15:32  <defunctzombie>but don't quite follow what this combined map stuff is
16:16:14  <thlorenz>mold-source-map
16:16:32  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: that allows you to pull'em out of the bundle afterwards
16:17:08  <thlorenz>combine just pulls out souremaps (if they exist) from individual files and adjusts offsets depending on where they end up in the bundle
16:17:26  <thlorenz>then it adds that combined sourcemap to the bottom of the bundle
16:17:36  <defunctzombie>ok.. so I first need to run bundle
16:17:42  <defunctzombie>and it will give me a src with map
16:17:48  <defunctzombie>and then I send that through mold?
16:18:13  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: yes, that was the only way to keep the browserify dead simple
16:18:29  <thlorenz>it adds some overhead though of course
16:18:35  <defunctzombie>sigh
16:18:45  <thlorenz>btw may be a bit too high level, but I wrote: http://thlorenz.com/blog/browserify-sourcemaps
16:18:49  <thlorenz>explaining a few things
16:18:52  <defunctzombie>why doesn't browserify provide the map separately?
16:19:00  <defunctzombie>or browser-pack I guess is the one that does the map
16:19:23  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: cause substack wanted to keep things simple, i.e. you'd have to know the root and other stuff
16:19:32  <defunctzombie>I see
16:19:35  <thlorenz>also then the bundle is no longer self contained
16:19:45  <thlorenz>i.e. you have to make sure your server serves the .map file
16:19:50  <defunctzombie>right
16:19:58  <defunctzombie>which is exactly what I am trying to accomplish
16:20:22  <thlorenz>actually correction, for just the map, you wouldn't need the root since you could still include all the sources in the map file
16:20:57  <thlorenz>but now you'd have to tell bfy where to put the map file (i.e. how does that even make sense when you just create a bundle stream)
16:21:31  <defunctzombie>I think mold will do what I need
16:21:35  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: honestly the overhead added by mold-source-map wouldn't be that bad for mid sized projects
16:21:41  <thlorenz>cool
16:21:44  <defunctzombie>all this may be more trouble than it is worth heh
16:21:57  <defunctzombie>trying to see what it takes to capture client side errors via raven-js
16:22:14  <thlorenz>interesting good luck with that
16:22:40  <thlorenz>btw mold is not in the bestest state internally -- i.e. was never sure what API to expose and how, so PRs are very welcome :)
16:23:03  <defunctzombie>k
16:23:13  <defunctzombie>but if I use mold... how do I get the original source?
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16:23:28  <defunctzombie>oh.. I see
16:23:40  <defunctzombie>mold doesn't change the stream
16:23:43  <defunctzombie>it just passes it through
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16:24:41  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: here is the example you need: https://github.com/thlorenz/mold-source-map/blob/master/examples/browserify-external-map-file.js
16:25:03  <defunctzombie>cool
16:27:42  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: if that doesn't actually remove the comment use: https://github.com/thlorenz/mold-source-map/blob/master/index.js#L53
16:28:03  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: what do you mean?
16:28:34  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: I mean that example writes source map to external file
16:28:49  <thlorenz>it should also remove them from the bundle
16:28:57  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: yea.. doesn't seem to be doing taht
16:29:03  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: so if it doesn't you can use what I sent you or use: https://github.com/thlorenz/convert-source-map#removecommentssrc
16:29:32  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: where would I use replaceComment ?
16:29:48  <defunctzombie>where do I have this sourceMoulder instance?
16:29:59  <thlorenz>i.e. just do convert.removeComments(bundle)
16:30:20  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: the function I pass to mold.transform
16:30:24  <defunctzombie>can I remove the comment in there?
16:30:33  <thlorenz>you should be able to
16:31:05  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: k
16:31:09  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: also.. this converter
16:31:15  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: can I just use it to get a sourcemap from a comment?
16:31:22  <defunctzombie>and avoid using mold?
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16:31:38  <thlorenz>yes, basically mold just uses convert-sm under the hood
16:31:42  <defunctzombie>seems that I should be able to
16:31:46  <defunctzombie>ah ok.. let me try that!
16:31:48  <thlorenz>so you could do it just with that
16:32:11  <defunctzombie>how do I get the source map from this molder?
16:32:16  <defunctzombie>toString() ? or toJSON() ?
16:32:22  <thlorenz>as I said mold-source-map needs some cleaning up (sigh) and the main thing that works though is the transform sources relative to -- thing
16:32:53  <defunctzombie>I think convert is gonna be good for me
16:33:06  <thlorenz>should be molder.sourcemap: https://github.com/thlorenz/mold-source-map/blob/master/index.js#L14
16:33:19  <thlorenz>cool
16:34:38  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: nice.. remove worked and from seems to have worked.. now question is
16:34:46  <defunctzombie>do I just append // @sourceMapURL and that is it?
16:34:58  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: I am also using the source map from the bundle to feed into uglify
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16:35:07  <defunctzombie>so that I can get source map on minified content
16:35:08  <thlorenz>you need to make it point to your transform file
16:35:19  <defunctzombie>yea.. that part I got
16:35:47  <thlorenz>so yeah, if you add that at the bottom and open devtools you should see at network request for the .map file
16:35:57  <thlorenz>but with minification I'm not sure
16:37:21  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: what you may want is https://github.com/ben-ng/minifyify
16:38:30  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: oh interesting
16:38:40  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: I could probably use that with my own output stream
16:38:48  <defunctzombie>so that I don't write to a file
16:39:07  <thlorenz>yep, I never tried it, but I think it was made for that purpose
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16:39:57  <defunctzombie>I think it is not this complex tho
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16:55:49  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down:
17:00:30  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: ok... progress
17:00:37  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: I got the input map to uglify working
17:00:45  <defunctzombie>and am serving the output map
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17:00:51  <defunctzombie>and the browser does try to load it
17:00:56  <thlorenz>awesome, so the minifyify worked for you?
17:00:58  <defunctzombie>however, it also then tries to load
17:01:02  <defunctzombie>I am not using minifyify
17:01:06  <thlorenz>ah, ok
17:01:11  <defunctzombie>hacking into enchilada for now
17:01:23  <defunctzombie>but the problem I get is the browser then tries to load the source file with a GET request
17:01:31  <defunctzombie>I thought the sources would be inlined into the map file
17:01:46  <thlorenz>it depends on how you set it up
17:02:09  <thlorenz>if you just pull out the source map of the bundle, then the sources should still be in there
17:02:22  <thlorenz>you can actually just look at the map file to see
17:02:44  <defunctzombie>hm
17:02:49  <defunctzombie>maybe uglify is removing them
17:03:03  <defunctzombie>it just has an array of source file names
17:03:03  <thlorenz>could be, that would suck, but then you can .... hold on
17:03:06  <defunctzombie>and then the map
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17:03:24  <thlorenz>https://github.com/thlorenz/sass-resolve/blob/master/lib/resolve-scss-sources.js
17:04:24  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: oh wow
17:04:32  <defunctzombie>I see.. I would need to set the contents
17:04:35  <thlorenz>so basically I find all those files and inline the sources
17:04:38  <defunctzombie>jesus
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17:04:43  <defunctzombie>ok
17:04:44  <thlorenz>cuz sass compiler doesn't include them
17:05:03  <thlorenz>so you could do something similar -- it's a pain I know
17:06:13  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: btw possibly this should be a separately published module
17:06:29  <defunctzombie>heh
17:06:40  <defunctzombie>right now I just wanna see if any of this is even feasible in a sane way
17:06:43  <defunctzombie>this shit is crazy
17:06:53  <thlorenz>:)
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17:16:28  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: great success
17:16:36  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: total hackery but great success
17:16:39  <defunctzombie>totally works
17:17:03  <thlorenz>awesome! -- so you resolved the sources manually?
17:17:25  * mikolalysenkoquit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
17:17:29  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: yea, similar to the scss stuff you did
17:17:33  <defunctzombie>I just already had the full paths
17:17:41  <defunctzombie>cause the sourcemap from browserify has them
17:17:51  <defunctzombie>and that goes into uglify which keeps the paths
17:18:14  * peutetrequit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
17:18:17  <defunctzombie>I actually use your convert module again
17:18:22  <defunctzombie>on the uglify map output
17:18:32  <defunctzombie>so that I can read their sources field and add contents section
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17:21:41  <defunctzombie>one thing I do need to figure out is a few warnings uglify generates
17:21:50  <defunctzombie>complaining about not being able to create mappings
17:21:58  <defunctzombie>WARN: Couldn't figure out mapping for ?:1,393 → 1,388 []
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17:23:16  <thlorenz>ah, yeah that's odd, btw if you need to test these transforms, I wrote apply-transform for that
17:23:19  <defunctzombie>I think it is cause of the preamble part from browserify
17:23:20  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: see: https://github.com/thlorenz/browserify-swap/blob/master/test/transform.js#L15
17:23:47  <thlorenz>could be, cause we aren't adding mappings for that part
17:23:58  <defunctzombie>yea
17:24:02  <defunctzombie>I think that is why
17:24:04  <thlorenz>but we could - i.e. add a line1-line1 mapping in browserpack
17:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 28]
17:24:31  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: where would I add that?
17:24:36  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: I think we should be adding that
17:25:05  <thlorenz>browser-pack https://github.com/substack/browser-pack/blob/master/index.js#L41
17:26:20  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: well, if the user specifies their own prelude
17:26:26  <thlorenz>when creating sourcemap for first time we could add a mapping
17:26:32  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: when doing addFile can I add without given a filename?
17:26:49  <thlorenz>just call it prelude.js
17:27:29  <defunctzombie>k
17:27:34  <thlorenz>it can be anything, just won't be resolvable (unless you actually resolve the prelude file)
17:28:15  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: yea, should be resolvable
17:28:20  <defunctzombie>otherwise resolver will bork
17:28:25  <defunctzombie>unless you add special checks to it
17:29:11  * shamajoined
17:29:48  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: lineno starts at 0?
17:29:56  <thlorenz>so just do: sourcemap.addFile({ sourceFile: path.resolve(prelude.js), source: prelude }, { line: 0 })
17:29:59  <thlorenz>yes
17:30:06  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: yep, that is what I did
17:30:11  <defunctzombie>worked as expected
17:30:16  <thlorenz>but that will break for custom preludes
17:30:36  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: yea.. need to think about that... and if anyone even uses custom preludes
17:30:40  <thlorenz>so a custom prelude would need to include full path to the file
17:30:40  <defunctzombie>heh
17:30:52  <defunctzombie>nice... all is working and no warnings!
17:30:57  <thlorenz>cool :)
17:31:01  <defunctzombie>I think we should addfile to browser-pack
17:31:04  <defunctzombie>for sourcemaps
17:31:15  <thlorenz>yep
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17:31:34  <defunctzombie>PR time!
17:31:38  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: only thing is substack uses older browserpack right now
17:31:46  <defunctzombie>why?
17:31:49  <thlorenz>he's afraid of the #
17:31:58  <defunctzombie>?
17:32:00  <thlorenz>since his browser doesn't like it
17:32:07  <thlorenz>(new source map standard)
17:32:13  <thlorenz>instead of @
17:32:16  <defunctzombie>what does the older one use?
17:32:22  <thlorenz>@
17:32:38  <defunctzombie>well, I patched whatever was installed in node-modules heh
17:32:45  <defunctzombie>to see if it worked
17:32:46  <thlorenz>but that breaks IE since MS was using that for other stuff and didn't know how to code using try/catch
17:32:49  <defunctzombie>I guess that is older one
17:33:00  <defunctzombie>what breaks IE ?
17:33:02  <defunctzombie>the # ?
17:33:04  <thlorenz>the @
17:33:13  <thlorenz>that's why they changed the standard
17:33:15  <defunctzombie>wait.. so that means # is better?
17:33:20  <thlorenz>yes
17:33:24  <defunctzombie>so we should be using that
17:33:31  <thlorenz>except if you use chrome from like a year ago
17:33:36  <defunctzombie>hahah
17:33:41  <defunctzombie>no one uses chrome from a year ago
17:33:49  <defunctzombie>well, I control the stack for enchilada
17:33:52  <thlorenz>good luck convincing substack ;) ppl have been requesting that for a while now
17:33:55  <defunctzombie>so I can fix whatever I need
17:33:59  <defunctzombie>I don't need to convince anyone
17:34:02  <thlorenz>cool
17:34:13  <defunctzombie>I will take substack stance and just fork it and make it work for me
17:34:20  <defunctzombie>in OSS I don't have to convince anyone :)
17:34:29  <thlorenz>good point
17:34:52  <defunctzombie>I would like substack to update, but if he has his reasons that is fine
17:35:09  <thlorenz>it still would be nice -- I mean if you are a developer and want to use source maps and you don't know how to upgrade your browser, then maybe you shouldn't be a developer </rant>
17:35:18  <defunctzombie>hahaha
17:35:28  <defunctzombie>chrome always auto updates for me
17:35:32  <defunctzombie>so I dunno what the issue is
17:35:56  <thlorenz>me neither
17:36:14  <defunctzombie>I am still on browserify v2
17:36:30  <defunctzombie>so will probably need to upgrade to 3 at some point as well
17:36:45  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: https://github.com/substack/node-browserify/issues/529#issuecomment-28678972
17:36:47  <defunctzombie>he should have done this change with the v3 upgrade since that was a major bump
17:37:11  <thlorenz>yeah you should, substack did some awesome work during the last two days on that version
17:37:26  * peutetrequit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
17:37:41  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: was is the major benefit?
17:37:50  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: my understanding was just the builtins are now directly used
17:37:57  <thlorenz>it will keep working in the future
17:38:21  <thlorenz>of v3 -- well the major change was using native buffer
17:38:25  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: from that issue it seems substack updated browser pack?
17:38:42  <thlorenz>yes, but browserify is using older version of it
17:38:59  <thlorenz>so // @ is fine for now (just spits out warnings into the console)
17:39:11  <thlorenz>but eventually we need to go with the actual standard
17:39:44  <thlorenz>I mean the other thing is that it breaks in IE, but I don't think anyone really cares
17:39:49  <defunctzombie>substack: substack.. update browserify to latest browser-pack :)
17:39:55  <thlorenz>:)
17:40:11  <defunctzombie>substack: actually.. wait until I send the PR for sourcemap of prelude
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17:46:56  <thlorenz>hey defunctzombie looks like it actually did get upgraded: https://github.com/substack/node-browserify/blob/master/package.json#L24
17:47:03  <thlorenz>just wasn't clear from the comments
17:47:04  <defunctzombie>cool
17:47:24  <defunctzombie>so now the question is to handle custom prelude
17:47:56  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: wait... why do I reload the source files from disk
17:48:04  <defunctzombie>I already have all of them from the browserify bundle
17:48:14  <thlorenz>yeah you can read
17:48:14  <defunctzombie>which contains the sourceContents array
17:48:19  <thlorenz>them from there as well
17:48:26  <defunctzombie>yea.. I will just do that
17:48:29  <thlorenz>the sass-resolve case was different
17:48:33  <defunctzombie>then the filename doesn't have to be valid
17:48:35  <defunctzombie>yep
17:48:41  <defunctzombie>it can just be _prelude.js
17:48:43  <thlorenz>I wasn't sure of your uglify situation ;)
17:48:54  <defunctzombie>haha
17:49:01  <defunctzombie>can I omit file entirely?
17:49:06  <defunctzombie>sourceFile that is?
17:49:10  <defunctzombie>I suppose not
17:49:17  <thlorenz>not sure, you need to give it some string
17:49:50  <thlorenz>but I believe browser-pack should do it correctly
17:50:03  <thlorenz>i.e. give the correct path
17:50:29  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: well, what about custom prelude then?
17:50:52  <thlorenz>as I said, they need to include the path to that prelude
17:51:05  <thlorenz>otherwise it cannot be source mapped
17:51:11  <defunctzombie>k
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17:54:55  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: https://github.com/defunctzombie/browser-pack/commit/f0c81e749f2419cdad23db4f6d75d1137e33badc
17:54:59  <defunctzombie>thoughts?
17:56:09  <thlorenz>lgtm except for custom prelude case
17:56:25  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: what would you change for that case?
17:56:39  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: I added the preludePath option
17:56:45  <defunctzombie>maybe I should add to readme I guess
17:56:52  <thlorenz>ah never mind
17:57:00  <thlorenz>just saw you allow to specify that
17:57:24  <thlorenz>although I believe it should be just prelude path
17:57:34  <thlorenz>since I can read that custom prelude myself
17:58:12  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: think so? I wasn't sure where this module was meant to work
17:58:14  <thlorenz>i.e. prelude = fs.readFileSync(opts.preludePath || defaultPreludePath)
17:58:27  <defunctzombie>bah sync reading
17:58:32  <defunctzombie>yea
17:58:35  <defunctzombie>maybe no better way
17:58:38  <thlorenz>or even better var preludePath = opts.preludePath || defaultPreludePath
17:58:38  <defunctzombie>shall see what stack says
17:58:45  <thlorenz>and then the rest stays the same
17:58:58  <defunctzombie>?
18:00:28  <defunctzombie>well, I opened a PR
18:00:35  <defunctzombie>we shall see what the feedback is
18:01:06  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: I commented: https://github.com/defunctzombie/browser-pack/commit/f0c81e749f2419cdad23db4f6d75d1137e33badc#commitcomment-4918015
18:01:10  <defunctzombie>cool
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18:02:45  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: you know what's funny about all this is that I asked for a custom prelude about a year ago and was denied
18:03:05  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: so why was the custom prelude functionality added?
18:03:05  <thlorenz>and then I had to : https://github.com/thlorenz/proxyquireify/blob/master/lib/hack-prelude.js
18:03:13  <thlorenz>not sure
18:03:26  <defunctzombie>haha
18:04:15  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: yea.. we developers are generally very combative about any request that we don't think we need
18:04:25  <defunctzombie>feature creep can be a dangerous thing tho
18:04:46  <thlorenz>true
18:05:00  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: I changed to use the sourcesContent from the original map and all is well!
18:05:02  <defunctzombie>works great
18:05:10  <defunctzombie>your convert module is great
18:05:11  <thlorenz>I'm trying to stay away now from anything that needs a custom browserify build script
18:05:19  <thlorenz>thanks
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18:06:43  <thlorenz>lots of peeps are using it in other libs -- kinda funny though that is not reflected in gh stars at all -- so maybe those are not good measure of how good a module is
18:06:57  <defunctzombie>they are not
18:07:25  <defunctzombie>stars are just a popularity content :)
18:07:32  <defunctzombie>*contest
18:07:59  <defunctzombie>I also had to patch uglify-js to accept source map string as input
18:08:02  <defunctzombie>versus a file
18:12:01  * rxgxquit (Quit: timeout)
18:12:15  <thlorenz>cool - I'm actually thinking to talk about source maps at jsconf -- still gotta make the proposal
18:12:42  <thlorenz>they seem to become more and more important and if you are a front end dev you should at least understand them somewhat
18:14:35  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: how can I get an object from "convert" module
18:14:43  <defunctzombie>and not a string for the sourcemap?
18:15:17  <defunctzombie>trying to battle a stupid uglify-js thing and wanna try a workaround before I patch uglify
18:15:44  <thlorenz>.toObject()?
18:15:58  <defunctzombie>yea.. found that
18:16:00  <defunctzombie>seems to work :)
18:16:08  <thlorenz>cool
18:19:23  <defunctzombie>wonder if it is faster to serve up a js file without a sourcemap inline
18:19:26  <defunctzombie>even during development
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18:23:03  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: of course it is, but IMO that's not nec the bottleneck
18:23:14  <thlorenz>browserify parsing all js files for require is
18:23:46  <thlorenz>also pulling them out adds overhead, so you'll probably not gain much
18:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 4, free: 27]
18:24:04  <thlorenz>the main advantage of external map file is that it only loads when you open dev tools
18:24:22  <thlorenz>so you can leave it in even in prod w/out your users loading more than they need
18:24:28  <defunctzombie>yep
18:24:32  <defunctzombie>this is what I am trying to get to
18:25:30  <thlorenz>what we actually need is a faster javascript parser (esprima is awesome, but also slow)
18:25:46  <thlorenz>maybe something based on C and using bindings
18:26:01  <Domenic_>i wonder if esprima is just not optimized
18:26:23  <Domenic_>it seems like the kind of problem that would be more data-structure related than v8-optimization-trick related though
18:26:42  <thlorenz>yeah, not sure about that, I used acorn in the past, but it spits out differently organized results, so not an easy switch in for esprima
18:28:39  <thlorenz>acorn is about 2x faster http://esprima.org/test/compare.html
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18:29:20  <thlorenz>actually for jquery it's extremely faster
18:29:25  <defunctzombie>hm
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18:29:31  <defunctzombie>it might not be that hard of a change
18:29:36  <defunctzombie>at least for the detective module
18:30:03  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: not sure since as I said the ASTs are not compat and acorn doesn't give you tokens
18:30:15  <defunctzombie>ah
18:30:22  <defunctzombie>what about google's thing?
18:30:34  <defunctzombie>seems like it takes 0 time haha
18:31:08  <thlorenz>:)
18:32:12  <defunctzombie>seriously
18:32:17  <defunctzombie>might be worth looking into
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18:33:20  <thlorenz>yeah, well detective isn't using tokens, so that would work, but it's using escodegen to generate code
18:33:27  <thlorenz>and that expects esprima ASTs
18:34:10  <thlorenz>also acorn isn't under heavy development and not preparing for ES6
18:34:11  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: only in certain cases
18:34:30  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: and those cases we might be able to not support
18:34:39  <defunctzombie>but I think google's thing should work
18:34:44  <defunctzombie>trying to find some docs
18:35:04  <thlorenz>yep, well it'd be worth a try to see how much it speeds up bundling
18:35:38  <defunctzombie>is detective the only place where AST is used?
18:35:44  <defunctzombie>in the default codepath
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18:39:31  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: not sure but I can't think of another instance where we'd need the AST
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18:40:05  <defunctzombie>I am trying to figure out how to even use traceur
18:41:40  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: look into es6ify -- that should help https://github.com/thlorenz/es6ify/blob/master/compile.js
18:42:00  <thlorenz>it's quite painful honestly
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18:43:06  <defunctzombie>heh
18:43:09  <defunctzombie>ok.. got a tree
18:43:11  <defunctzombie>now what
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18:43:31  <defunctzombie>no documentation on the tree format
18:43:36  <thlorenz>I'd use JSONSelect to find requires unless you want to do it by hand
18:43:57  <thlorenz>:) well inspect or repl(pad) is your friend
18:44:01  <defunctzombie>what the shit is JSONSelect
18:44:52  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: it allows cool things like: https://github.com/thlorenz/findex/blob/master/lib/file.js#L142-L146
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18:55:58  <defunctzombie>this is all very confusing haha
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18:59:54  <thlorenz>yep AST things aren't trivial at first, but it will start to make sense ;)
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19:00:26  <defunctzombie>traceur has some sort of visitor shit
19:00:30  <defunctzombie>that I think is what I want
19:00:35  <defunctzombie>but damn is it hard to find
19:00:37  <defunctzombie>0 docs
19:00:59  <thlorenz>yeah traceur is crazy since it generates lots of code like state machines to simulate generators in ES5
19:01:12  <thlorenz>probably not necessarily what you need
19:03:43  <defunctzombie>https://github.com/google/traceur-compiler/wiki/AddingTransformationPasses
19:03:48  <defunctzombie>this page makes absolutely no sense
19:04:10  <defunctzombie>what I want to do is probably not hard once you know which of the 3,000 classes you need to use
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19:13:02  <groundwater>ogd: i got dokku working
19:13:21  <groundwater>i had an error in my app, but dokku was not at all helpful telling me that
19:13:25  <groundwater>anyways, it's working now
19:13:55  <ogd>groundwater: now... rewrite it in node!!
19:13:58  <ogd>muahaha
19:14:15  <groundwater>ogd: https://github.com/jacobgroundwater/node-chief wrote this once
19:14:23  <groundwater>i'm sure it could be dockerized
19:15:44  <groundwater>better yet, write a docker-compatible CLI/API in node
19:15:53  <groundwater>basically aufs/lxc wrapper
19:16:14  <ogd>hah
19:18:33  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: substack is there a way to make a transform in a parent package apply to all child package as well?
19:19:00  <thlorenz>i.e. I want the transform to be called for every ./node_module/x that gets resolved
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19:21:34  <defunctzombie>I don't think that is possible
19:22:13  <thlorenz>shoot, so I gotta make it viral then, i.e. find all package.json's of all children and inject itself as a transform
19:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 9, free: 20]
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19:33:23  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: I just hacked together a naive tree walker based on the tree json of traceur
19:33:30  <defunctzombie>it was no faster on my project
19:33:47  <defunctzombie>imma time the actual tree creation tho
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20:01:36  <grncdr>Raynos, jden: how does one write a polymorphic signature in jsig? e.g. a function that can two completely different parameter lists
20:01:54  <Raynos>grncdr: depends
20:02:01  <Raynos>ARGH irccloud is really slow.
20:02:19  <Raynos>Is it better? yes it is
20:02:43  <Raynos>grncdr: `foo := (arg: String | Object) => result: Boolean | null
20:03:08  <Raynos>grncdr: `foo := (String) => Boolean | (Object) => null`
20:03:11  <Raynos>wait
20:03:15  <Raynos>grncdr: `foo := (String) => Boolean & (Object) => null`
20:03:32  <grncdr>ah I think that's the one I was looking for
20:03:33  <Raynos>grncdr: the only question is order of `|` & `&` and where you should place brackets
20:03:40  <Raynos>but & means multiple things
20:03:54  <Raynos>grncdr: `foo := (String) => Boolean \n foo := (Object) => null` is also valid
20:04:53  <grncdr>yeah, I have a function that is (String, Array?, Continuation<A>) => B & (B) => B
20:05:13  <grncdr>which is ugly to say the least… and maybe an unnecessary evil
20:06:01  <grncdr>(it's not actually that generic, I was just being a bit lazy with the type names)
20:06:34  <grncdr>also, how does ":=" differ from ":" ?
20:08:33  <Raynos>grncdr: So your saying you return either B or (B) => B
20:08:43  <Raynos>grncdr: Or are you returning both B and (B) => B
20:09:18  <Raynos>grncdr: so := is my extension. `:=` means variable / token / module in code is this signature
20:09:28  <Raynos>`:` means "this is named label for the type that follows
20:09:39  <grncdr>ok
20:09:40  <Raynos>remind me that I need to merge my extensions back into jsig :p
20:09:57  <grncdr>Raynos: merge your extensions back into jsig
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20:10:14  <grncdr>so my signature is probably better with brackets:
20:10:17  <grncdr>f := ((String, Array?, Continuation<A>) => B) & ((B) => B)
20:10:55  <grncdr>it always returns a B, but it can either take the parameters for creating a B, or a pre-constructed B
20:11:11  <grncdr>(where B: Query in my actual use case)
20:11:30  <grncdr>I think I'd rather just write them on separate lines though
20:12:31  <Raynos>grncdr: thats easier to read. seperate lines is fine too
20:12:34  <Raynos>i did something like that
20:13:12  <Raynos>https://github.com/Raynos/observ#docs
20:14:26  <grncdr>hm, so the newline is implicitly bracketing?
20:14:29  <grncdr>:|
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20:22:03  <Raynos>grncdr: so i havnt decided what the operator preference is on `&` yet
20:22:12  <Raynos>I think the preference is outer not inner
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20:22:31  <Raynos>`() => (A & (Function<A>) => void)`
20:22:38  <Raynos>which reminds me
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20:22:52  <jlord>What are the bash color options availabe when writing problems.txt in workshoppers? cc rvagg
20:23:01  <Raynos>I need to stop doing `() => (String, Blargh)` and do `() => (String, Blarg) => void` instead
20:23:10  <jlord>Or what are they called because when I google, I get things like \e[41mRed -- which don't work
20:23:15  <Raynos>grncdr: basically we need a grammar & a parser to force us to make these decisions :D
20:23:35  <st_luke_>Domenic_: I don't think we should ever make npm support amd
20:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 13, free: 17]
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20:24:17  <Raynos>st_luke_: if npm supports ES6 & commonJS then we should make it "easy" to extend it to AMD. Even if that extension is not in npm by default
20:24:40  <st_luke_>jlord: it's this templating thing where you do like:
20:25:12  <st_luke_>jlord: {yellow}blah blah blah{/yellow}
20:25:27  <st_luke_>yellow green blue cyan magenta black white
20:25:45  <st_luke_>Raynos: i dont think it should be a priority at all, amd is going away
20:25:54  <jlord>st_luke_: ohh so I can't specifiy bright/lights or background and foreground?
20:26:07  <Raynos>st_luke_: i dont think it should be a priority either.
20:26:27  <Raynos>st_luke_: its just that a modular design for supporting commonJS & ES6 should allow a userland extension for AMD support
20:26:47  <st_luke_>jlord: i think you need to use bold for that
20:26:50  <st_luke_>jlord: https://github.com/rvagg/workshopper/blob/master/usage.txt
20:27:11  <st_luke_>Raynos: why should commonjs be supported outside of the node commonjs-ish style
20:27:31  <Raynos>st_luke_: its not. commonjs === node commonjs-ish style.
20:27:45  <jlord>but bold is not enough! need moar formats
20:27:55  <jlord>it's ok tho
20:28:45  <substack>jlord: \e is \x1b
20:28:57  <st_luke_>i started playing around with it the other night to make one but then i realized it was hard to do without something to generate stdout so i stopped
20:30:37  <jlord>substack: like {\e}To add all files' changes{/\e}?
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20:38:20  <jlord>nope not thst
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20:41:07  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: btw the tree walking is not gonna be the slowest part, but serializing the js into an AST is
20:48:05  <Domenic_>st_luke_: I think I agree, both with you and Raynos.
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20:52:17  <st_luke_>we can't just put junk features in to make a really tiny vocal crowd happy
20:54:35  <grncdr>hm, does anybody remember what the name of the markdown editor that creates previews that match Github? (locally)
20:54:58  <grncdr>I remember seeing it a few weeks ago, but drawing a total blank on the name
20:55:49  <st_luke_>gist
20:57:47  <grncdr>I was looking for something to run lcoally, my internet sucks
20:57:52  <grncdr>also: https://github.com/rvagg/morkdown
20:58:01  <grncdr>thanks rvagg!
20:58:58  <groundwater>grncdr: also greadme i think
21:16:29  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: yea, I hacked detective to use traceur
21:16:35  <defunctzombie>and didn't see a speed improvement
21:17:09  <thlorenz>ok, well I'm thinking the only real speed improvement can came from a native module (i.e. in C)
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21:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 14]
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21:32:40  <Domenic_>i doubt a native module would be faster
21:32:48  <Domenic_>probably slower than optimized js due to the overhead
21:37:04  <AvianFlu>the overhead of moving from C to js is almost always more than what you'd gain
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22:01:05  <ogd>Domenic_: random question that you might know about
22:01:35  <ogd>Domenic_: in https://github.com/maxogden/filereader-stream i use a technique on File objects
22:01:49  <ogd>Domenic_: where you can do File.slice(start, end) to get a Blob
22:02:02  <ogd>Domenic_: then you can use a FileReader to read that Blob as an ArrayBuffer
22:02:19  <ogd>Domenic_: otherwise if you read the whole File it creates an ArrayBuffer the size of the File
22:02:33  <ogd>Domenic_: but you can just keep chunking your File into Blobs are read those individually
22:03:11  <ogd>Domenic_: in Chrome I am slicing chunks of 32768 bytes and streaming them over a websocket in arraybuffer mode, and in node they arrive as 32768 byte chunks
22:03:42  <ogd>Domenic_: but in FF I slice 32768 but it gives me chunks in ranges between 40000 and 41000
22:04:00  <ogd>Domenic_: almost as if the FileReader implementation is fuzzy about how much it reads and returns. super weird
22:04:27  <ogd>Domenic_: also in Chrome when slicing like that the general tab responsiveness is good, but in FF it gets super laggy, so it seems like their implementation is a lot less optimized
22:04:38  <ogd>Domenic_: anyway my question is how should I raise awareness of this issue?
22:04:58  <ogd>Domenic_: to reproduce just follow the readme of https://github.com/maxogden/bws
22:05:06  <ogd>Domenic_: and drop a buncha mp3s or other large files on the page
22:06:04  <Domenic_>ogd: well I would put together a nice bugzilla bug report; the more polished the better. but obviously you can't stop there or it goes into a black hole...
22:06:37  <Domenic_>the next trick is to have a cool demo or service or something that only works in chrome because of this. (but, it should work in firefox if they fix the bug; no browser detection, of course.)
22:06:42  <ogd>heh
22:06:56  <Domenic_>with a reasonably-prominent link to the bug
22:07:08  <Domenic_>then we can start tweeting about your cool demo
22:07:22  <ogd>Domenic_: i was thinking of writing a simple file sharing UI on top of this with realtime progress bars and webrtc w/ binary websocket fallback
22:07:33  <Domenic_>that sounds pretty awesome...
22:07:33  <ogd>but i dont remember if webrtc reliable is in chrome + ff yet
22:07:45  <Domenic_>hmm yeah there's some trickiness there i believe
22:07:59  <Domenic_>but i mean even if it worked chrome <-> chrome but not firefox <-> firefox that's damning enough
22:08:21  <ogd>yea
22:08:55  <Domenic_>if you can give the bug a catchy name that has worked well in the past i believe...
22:09:03  <Domenic_>"the IE box-model bug"
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22:09:21  <Domenic_>I think there are other examples...
22:09:38  <Domenic_>but if it sounds like it's a well-known flaw in Firefox they'll scramble to fix it
22:09:47  <Domenic_>all this is kind of the being-annoying-effectively aspect
22:09:54  <Domenic_>then there's the actually-getting-it-fixed aspect
22:10:19  <Domenic_>which would i think narrow down to finding the appropriate component owner and trying to get it on their radar
22:10:37  <ogd>cool sounds like a plan
22:10:43  <ogd>i am scared of firefox internals
22:10:47  <Domenic_>yeah
22:10:47  <ogd>and dont want to learn about them
22:10:53  <ogd>but i want people who care to fix them :)
22:11:08  <Domenic_>just look at related bugzilla bugs and see who owns them or submits patches is probably sufficient.
22:14:18  <ogd>oh also im on FF 24 lol
22:14:22  <ogd>i keep thinking it will autoupdate
22:16:47  <ogd>ah same problem on 26
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22:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 24]
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22:54:07  <defunctzombie>is an es5 -> asm.js transpiler a thing?
22:54:52  <defunctzombie>what would happen to stuff like define property?
22:54:56  <defunctzombie>etc
22:55:50  <rowbit>substack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down:
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23:24:03  <rowbit>Daily usage stats: [developer: 61, free: 545]
23:24:04  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 4, free: 25]
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