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00:02:25  <st_luke>its just pretty trivial I dont think anyone ever thought making an issue for it had much of a point
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00:03:55  <st_luke>can we just get back to arguing pronouns please
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00:04:15  <jesusabdullah>nop
00:04:39  <paul_irish>haha :)
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00:20:46  <wolfeidau>fastly.npmjs.org is much better
00:22:31  <jesusabdullah>what is fastly?
00:22:34  <mmalecki>oh wow
00:22:38  <mmalecki>this is insanely fast
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00:40:38  <wolfeidau>jesusabdullah: varnish based cdn which is run by some very good engineers
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00:47:15  <substack>defunctzombie: soonish might be a good time to cut out browser-builtins like you were advocating
00:47:49  <defunctzombie>substack: I recently updated utils and assert modules on npm
00:47:58  <defunctzombie>substack: did something change to make you want to cut it out?
00:49:51  <substack>defunctzombie: it's annoying having to go through it when I update one of the core libs
00:50:13  <substack>just adds more latency and ceremony to every change
00:50:17  <robertkowalski>wow
00:50:46  <defunctzombie>yea, it is a weird module because it doesn't actually do anything as a module
00:51:33  <substack>maybe I'll take a look at ripping that out tomorrow if I can get through what I want to get done today
00:51:53  <jesusabdullah>wolfeidau: so fastly.npmjs.org already proxies tarballs to a cdn? Is that code OSS?
00:53:13  <wolfeidau>jesusabdullah: It is my understanding that they use https://www.varnish-cache.org/ so it is basically served out of memory, I am not sure how much of thier stuff is open source though, as in the data distrubtion and DNS
00:53:26  <robertkowalski>fastly is quite fast, indeed.
00:53:27  <jesusabdullah>ahh
00:53:31  <jesusabdullah>I see
00:53:53  <jesusabdullah>that makes sense
00:53:56  <robertkowalski>can't wait to have a european fastly.npmjs mirror - if the choice will be fastly
00:54:03  <jesusabdullah>mmalecki: ^^
00:54:05  <wolfeidau>jesusabdullah: The main engineer has done a ton of talks on the subject
00:55:05  <defunctzombie>substack: let me know if you start down that road, I can find time to lend a hand for anything we haven't yet thrown on npm
00:55:28  <defunctzombie>substack: do you intend to support older browsers or only es5 stuff?
00:55:49  <substack>defunctzombie: what?
00:56:22  <defunctzombie>substack: there was the issue about dropping the shims stuff
00:56:23  <substack>I don't understand why everybody keeps framing it that way
00:56:33  <substack>there aren't any shims
00:57:15  <substack>I think everybody is misunderstanding what I want to do and think it's something different
00:57:15  <defunctzombie>substack: the old version had shims for es5 stuff
00:57:25  <substack>the old version of what?
00:57:34  <defunctzombie>browser-builtins
00:57:44  <substack>those should be inside of each module
00:57:52  <substack>not combined like they have it
00:57:53  <defunctzombie>yes, I agree
00:57:57  <defunctzombie>100%
00:58:08  <defunctzombie>my question was do you want modules that support es5 or not?
00:58:12  <substack>removing duplicate shims is gzip's problem
00:58:20  <defunctzombie>like the assert and utils modules I published doesn't have it
00:58:26  <defunctzombie>cause I think it is an end user issue
00:58:28  <substack>yes they should have it
00:58:47  <substack>because it's easy
00:59:14  <defunctzombie>that might need to be revisited for some then, cause I just gave up on non es5 stuff
00:59:37  <substack>it's so easy
01:00:03  <substack>var isArray = Array.isArray || function (xs) { return Object.prototype.toString.call(xs) === '[object Array]' }
01:01:11  <defunctzombie>yea, the isArray one isn't the hard one
01:01:21  <defunctzombie>there were some for Object properties and other shit
01:01:29  <defunctzombie>no one ever complains about isArray hahahaha
01:01:33  <substack>var objectKeys = Object.keys || function (obj) { var keys = []; for (var key in obj) if (obj.hasOwnProperty(key)) keys.push(key); return keys }
01:01:59  <substack>and map, filter, reduce, forEach
01:02:02  <substack>those are easy to shim
01:02:09  <substack>and the core stuff doesn't even use those
01:02:12  <defunctzombie>well, the real polyfill is more complex
01:02:17  <substack>whatever
01:02:26  <defunctzombie>but yea, will have to see what works out of the box
01:02:28  <defunctzombie>lots does already
01:02:56  <substack>Buffer is the only thing that I think it's not worth bothering to get working
01:03:17  <substack>because the file size would be too big
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01:11:44  <defunctzombie>Buffer is yea... Bops has promise I think
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01:20:58  <defunctzombie>substack: I started on a side project to create libuv bindings for v8 js
01:21:19  <defunctzombie>substack: my end goal is to see how minimal I can make a basic runtime environment where you can plug and play things
01:21:25  <defunctzombie>even module systems
01:22:08  <defunctzombie>cause it is easier to iterate in JS land with modules once some core OS stuff is there for you
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01:28:07  <chrisdickinson>substack: saw utf8-bytes -- your impl is better than bops' i think, and will get rolled in
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02:07:24  <st_luke>seems like there's still a lot of confusion over errors in js
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02:23:21  <dominictarr_>Raynos,
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03:40:42  <robertkowalski>Domenic_: 0 open PR is a nice goal
03:41:00  <robertkowalski>Domenic_: i once dreamed about temporally 0 issues in the whole tracker.
03:41:19  <Domenic_>robertkowalski: i think that'd be pretty hard :P. even if we moved all the troubleshooting issues to another repo
03:41:23  <Domenic_>but yes we should try for 0 open PR
03:42:04  <Domenic_>ones that i think we should merge: https://github.com/isaacs/npm/pull/4212 https://github.com/isaacs/npm/pull/4214 https://github.com/isaacs/npm/pull/4179
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03:43:10  <robertkowalski>Domenic_: I have a question to the one from you
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03:44:44  <robertkowalski>Domenic_: 64kbps commented this commit in node core..
03:52:36  <Domenic_>robertkowalski: yeah seems like it'll break a lot of programs that are doing naive substring checking... but still, substring checking is now how you should do subdirectory checking.
03:58:29  <robertkowalski>ok. will have a look at this tomorrow, it's almost 5am here
04:02:45  <mikolalysenko>another good case for splitting databinding out as a separate library: http://alexandros.resin.io/angular-d3-svg/
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04:17:00  <Raynos>dominictarr_: pong
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09:04:55  <robertkowalski>wow, that night was short
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09:42:13  <mmalecki>dominictarr__: yo
09:42:19  <mmalecki>dominictarr__: you still work with crdt much?
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09:47:30  <dominictarr__>mmalecki, I havn't used it for anything recently
09:47:46  <dominictarr__>I've mostly been working on npmd recently
09:48:02  <dominictarr__>I'd still use that stuff if I wanted to do realtime collaboration, though
09:48:31  <dominictarr__>especially, I'd use r-edit. that is on my todo list.
09:48:48  <mmalecki>dominictarr__: word. just wanted to mention that if you do crdt on frontend, knockout.js works great as a frontend framework
09:49:02  <mmalecki>dominictarr__: I just built an app in ~30 lines of code or something like that
09:49:22  <mmalecki>https://github.com/mmalecki/bender-ui/blob/master/public/js/app-view-model.js#L14-L16
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09:57:57  <grncdr>mmalecki: neat, what is bender?
09:58:35  <mmalecki>grncdr: it's a distributed service registry built on top of CRDT
09:58:45  <mmalecki>grncdr: https://github.com/vigour-io/bender
09:59:19  <grncdr>cool
09:59:25  <dominictarr__>mmalecki, sweet!
09:59:32  <mmalecki>grncdr: then there is stuff on top of it like bender-haporxy
09:59:36  <grncdr>out of curiousity, how does it compare to seaport etc?
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09:59:54  <mmalecki>I don't completely recall seaport's features, but:
10:00:01  <dominictarr__>incidentally, seaport is also built with crdt
10:00:23  <mmalecki>it's expiring, meaning that if service loses contact with bender, it will be eventually removed from the service registry
10:00:32  <mmalecki>services have to check in every X seconds
10:01:10  <grncdr>that is neat
10:01:32  <grncdr>dominictarr__: yeah that's part of why I was asking
10:01:33  <mmalecki>and well, that's basically it, since interesting stuff should be implemented in addons like bender-haproxy XD
10:02:18  <mmalecki>what's interesting is how we force full bender node on each 'receiver'
10:02:40  <mmalecki>so like, you need full bender node running on each haproxy and so on
10:03:39  <grncdr>hm, does it do version selection?
10:03:48  <mmalecki>yes, through backends + frontends
10:04:11  <mmalecki>frontend points to a backend, backend points to app@version
10:07:39  <grncdr>hm, I'm curious, why do backends have name
10:07:42  <grncdr>s?
10:08:44  <grncdr>I think I'm not understanding what a front vs back end actually is…
10:15:04  <mmalecki>grncdr: so for bender it doesn't actually matter what frontend or backend is. but imagine writing a DNS server with bender. frontend would be a domain you handle.
10:15:30  <mmalecki>grncdr: so in the frontend object you'd store something which tells your DNS what your domain is
10:15:54  <mmalecki>grncdr: and backend is just a set of servers pointing to specific app@version
10:16:14  <mmalecki>grncdr: for HAProxy frontend might be a Host header to filter by
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11:26:25  <timoxley>dominictarr__: "client cannot create new sublevels" why?
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12:48:08  <mikolalysenko>dumbish question, but is there a good way to find unescaped quotes (or whatever character) in a string without tokenizing it?
12:48:39  <jesusabdullah>JSON.parse it and see if it barfs? :)
12:48:50  <mikolalysenko>wait, I think I got it
12:49:03  <mikolalysenko>just match \\(\\\\)*c
12:49:20  <mikolalysenko>err that actually matches single quote
12:49:30  <mikolalysenko>I mean an escaped character...
12:49:31  <mikolalysenko>hmm
12:49:50  <mikolalysenko>maybe .(\\\\)*c to detect unescaped?
12:50:09  <mikolalysenko>but then you have to worry about the situation where c is the first character
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12:55:49  <grncdr>[^\\]c ?
12:56:39  <grncdr>I think I might be misunderstanding though ...
12:56:42  <mikolalysenko>but I do want them to input \c
12:57:04  <mikolalysenko>basically it is from this issue: https://github.com/mikolalysenko/mathmode/issues/3
12:57:22  <mikolalysenko>right now I just do the sledgehammer thing and kill all $'s in the tex to prevent it from breaking stuff
12:57:32  <mikolalysenko>but you might want to escape a $ and write \$
12:57:48  <mikolalysenko>but what if a user inputs \$, then removing it could mess stuff up
12:58:25  <grncdr>I'm pretty sure what I said will work
12:58:37  <grncdr>it finds instances of c that aren't preceded by a \
12:59:21  <mikolalysenko>it fails on \\$ though
12:59:25  <mikolalysenko>which is not escaped properly
12:59:30  <grncdr>ah
13:00:01  <mikolalysenko>this one: /.(\\\\)*\$/g works
13:00:08  <mikolalysenko>except when $ is the first character
13:00:46  <grncdr>I'd just use an | alternate for that case
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13:01:52  <grncdr>I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that performance isn't vital in this case, so /.(\\\\)*\$|^$/g should be fine?
13:02:09  <mikolalysenko>yeah, but I also need to replace the $ too...
13:02:21  <mikolalysenko>might be easier to just check .charAt(0)
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13:14:51  <mikolalysenko>I think this works: https://github.com/mikolalysenko/mathmode/blob/master/mathmode.js#L4
13:15:13  <ehd>mmalecki: bender is pretty neat, i guess i could also use it without its http endpoint entirely and only have it rely on a crdt doc?
13:16:15  <ehd>mikolalysenko: i like the style of mathmode's readme :) (instead of # usage just put the call itself as a heading)
13:20:12  <mikolalysenko>ehd: thanks, I use that style in most of my projects
13:20:46  <ehd>would be good if that was part of the language ;) basically you could derive it from module.exports of an npm module's index module
13:20:53  <ehd>s/language/module discovery/
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14:37:17  <mmalecki>ehd: correct. there's also a separate module just for that: bender-crdt
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16:24:03  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 34]
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17:23:30  <substack>chrisdickinson: sweet!
17:23:46  <substack>it has tests for astral symbols and all of that
17:24:03  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 24]
17:25:11  <chrisdickinson>nice!
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17:52:27  <dominictarr_>hey, you guys might appreciate this one
17:52:33  <dominictarr_>https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rubyonrails-core/rwzM8MKJbKU
17:53:22  <dominictarr_>rails dynamically generates javascript and sends it to the client, sometimes containing user generated data
17:53:39  <dominictarr_>turns out this is a security hole.
17:53:45  * anoemijoined
17:54:38  <dominictarr_>dhh doesn't want to remove the feature, thinks problem can be solved with more escaping...
17:55:31  <substack> such magic. so convention.
17:55:37  <techwraith>wow.
17:55:39  <substack> wow. so rails.
17:55:46  <substack>amaze
17:56:33  <techwraith>To be fair, this particular issue has nothing to do with convention and everything to do with bad ideas.
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17:57:34  <pkrumins>there are security holes everywhere
18:01:21  <dominictarr_>but who'd a thought that generating dynamic javascript in templates would be one of them?
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18:02:14  <dominictarr_>note that several people point out that 99% of the js templates could easily be acomplished via JSON
18:03:18  <dominictarr_>kinda funny that JSON is both a safe but valid subset of javascript, and we use it for serializing data all the time...
18:05:22  * fronxquit (Remote host closed the connection)
18:06:15  <techwraith><%- myRailsModel.to_json %>
18:06:21  <techwraith>There, I fixed it for them
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18:12:52  <st_luke>dominictarr_: I am the parody account
18:13:25  <st_luke>a parody account of me would be mostly helpful information
18:13:28  <jesusabdullah>hahaha
18:13:43  <jesusabdullah>nice st_luke
18:13:48  <jesusabdullah>oh, st_luke any news from yahoo?
18:14:05  <st_luke>jesusabdullah: I sent your resume to the people who can move it along
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18:14:13  <jesusabdullah>cool cool
18:14:18  <st_luke>jesusabdullah: unfortunately last week being a holiday means things were moving a little slow
18:14:26  <jesusabdullah>yeah, same with everyone
18:14:37  <st_luke>but I'll keep you up to date on what I hear
18:15:22  <st_luke>cause I think it'd be great to have you here if you're interested on what's going on
18:15:47  <jesusabdullah>Yeah I'm def interested
18:15:59  <st_luke>awesome
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18:17:26  <st_luke>it's kind of important to me to only bring people on board who are interested
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18:17:58  <st_luke>because all of the people I know through node stuff are friends...it's not a business thing for me
18:18:29  <jesusabdullah>oh crap I sat on my foot
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18:19:19  <Domenic_>oh yeah work for yahoo on npm that'd be awesome
18:19:41  <st_luke>jesusabdullah: before I started here, it was a little difficult with one of the recruiters because I refused to fill out paperwork until they made an offer. If you run into anything that makes you uncomfortable or any weirdness let me know
18:19:53  <jesusabdullah>sounds good
18:19:58  <st_luke>a lot of the time people are just doing their jobs and if I need to make a desk visit I will
18:22:09  <st_luke>jesusabdullah: the way I see it, the more node people we can get in here from the outside, the easier it is to create a special node sub-section of the company that makes their own rules
18:22:49  <st_luke>I like how walmart does it
18:24:03  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 27]
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18:31:24  <defunctzombie>st_luke: I understand
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18:33:11  <chapel>st_luke: labs teams have a lot of freedom
18:33:15  <chapel>its pretty nice
18:33:23  <chapel>st_luke: are you in the bay area?
18:34:07  <st_luke>chapel: yeah
18:34:19  <chapel>where is the yahoo office?
18:34:25  <st_luke>chapel: sunnyvale
18:34:28  <chapel>ah cool
18:34:31  <st_luke>but I live in Oakland
18:34:31  <chapel>I live in santa clara
18:34:49  <chapel>our office is in mv, though its only one of many offices
18:35:20  <st_luke>Domenic_: I feel compelled to thank you for your commit message formatting here: https://github.com/isaacs/npm/commit/edff71729efd0ca038f991474adf3f6a927adf4f#commitcomment-4749497
18:35:34  <st_luke>and content
18:35:43  <Domenic_>st_luke: haha :)
18:35:55  <st_luke>I don't even care about the char limit
18:36:02  <st_luke>I just like the "short header long body" style
18:36:24  <Domenic_>yeah same, that's what i use on my projects
18:36:33  <st_luke>I get really upset when people go past the soft limit, because I am a child I guess
18:36:47  <Domenic_>i get sad when it makes the commits ugly on GitHub.
18:36:51  <st_luke>chapel: where do you work?
18:37:13  <st_luke>Domenic_: yeah
18:37:58  <chapel>st_luke: walmart labs
18:38:05  <st_luke>ah neat
18:38:28  <chapel>don't work on eran's team, another team that happens to use node a lot
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18:45:37  <st_luke>cool
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18:58:24  <st_luke>trevnorris: how did the perf training go?
18:58:32  <st_luke>I have some colleagues who are interested in taking the class
18:58:50  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) brent.noorda@... successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
18:58:50  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
18:58:56  <substack>woot
19:01:13  <trevnorris>st_luke: think it went ok. the screen sharing wasn't as precise as I want it to be.
19:01:32  <trevnorris>and i still have some tuning on the material.
19:02:02  <trevnorris>4 hours is honestly not much time for so much to share. so figuring out how to cram in as much as possible while still be digestible.
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19:06:20  <jesusabdullah>substack: do I know anyone that currently works at google?
19:09:33  <substack>jesusabdullah: well there's paul_irish
19:09:41  <substack>I don't think I know anybody else
19:09:47  <jesusabdullah>yeah but are paul_irish and I friends?
19:09:50  <jesusabdullah>ARE WE PAUL ARE WE
19:09:50  <LOUDBOT>WHEN YOUR WATCH IS A RATTLIN', I'M NOT A CUMMIN
19:10:04  <defunctzombie>no, you are not
19:10:05  <jesusabdullah>I ask cause the google recruiter guy asked if I had any googlers in my "network"
19:10:07  <substack>well, you are both in the same irc channel
19:10:13  <defunctzombie>paul_irish: is friends with no one but developer tools
19:10:33  <defunctzombie>one might even say that paul_irish *is* developer tools personified
19:10:37  <jesusabdullah>So I'm a developer, if I act like a tool can we be friends?
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19:10:53  <paul_irish>jesusabdullah: BEST FRIENDS.
19:11:09  <jesusabdullah>Cool, can you tell this recruiter dude we're buds?
19:11:14  <paul_irish>yes for sure
19:11:22  <jesusabdullah>haha a'ight
19:11:42  <jesusabdullah>let's see if I can find that email
19:11:42  <paul_irish>i can add that you're a voice of moderation in a dramatic and touchy community situation
19:11:49  <jesusabdullah>awwww
19:11:53  <paul_irish>and, great hair.
19:11:57  <jesusabdullah>s/moderation/trollin/
19:12:02  <paul_irish>;)
19:12:17  <paul_irish>jesusabdullah: what location(s) would you be considering?
19:12:32  <jesusabdullah>uhhhh, one sec
19:12:35  <jesusabdullah>I just got off the phone here
19:13:02  <jesusabdullah>They're recruiting for developer relations https://developers.google.com/jobs/
19:13:12  <jesusabdullah>and they said either Mt. View or NYC
19:13:22  <jesusabdullah>s/they/he/
19:13:43  * substacksaw what you did there
19:14:02  <jesusabdullah>well in that case I used plural they so
19:14:17  <jesusabdullah>you can tell because of the lines
19:15:30  <paul_irish>haha
19:15:55  <paul_irish>hot! yeah MTV and NYC work well. give em my name. sounds good
19:16:34  <jesusabdullah>Awesome, thanks :D
19:17:01  <defunctzombie>jesusabdullah: if you come to NYC we can hang :)
19:17:12  <jesusabdullah>defunctzombie: hoping I get a job interview in nyc
19:17:19  <defunctzombie>nice
19:17:29  <defunctzombie>NYC > MTV
19:17:29  <LOUDBOT>BROWSERS GOT ME BY MY SHORT AND CURLY CIRCUITRY
19:17:35  <defunctzombie>wow
19:20:13  <jesusabdullah>ouch
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19:21:40  <jesusabdullah>MTV stopped being cool around 1995 or so
19:21:49  <jesusabdullah>then they stopped showing music videos :(
19:24:03  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 1, free: 44]
19:26:52  <jesusabdullah>paul_irish: recruiterguy says you're the beest
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19:30:35  <fuz>is it the real paul irish?
19:30:43  <paul_irish>so real. so fresh.
19:31:17  <jesusabdullah>all the other paul irishes are just imitatin'
19:31:39  <techwraith>"the real" :P
19:40:32  <fuz>as opposed to the clones (or people who share his name)
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19:47:11  <brianloveswords>paul_irish, the best irish.
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20:24:03  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 1, free: 35]
20:26:30  <brianloveswords>Added some HTTPS support to hyperproxy yesterday: https://github.com/brianloveswords/hyperproxy
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21:26:41  <creationix>poor google recruiter was all excited I took time to talk to her and answer all her questions till I said that I live in Red Lick and am not moving.
21:27:02  <creationix>turns out that's a big no-no
21:27:43  <chrisdickinson>have google open a texarkana branch? :)
21:28:00  <substack>creationix: yeah companies are really silly like that
21:28:23  <creationix>I would love to have another javascript developer that lives within 100 miles
21:28:48  <creationix>who wants to move here, it's super cheap, we can hack on crowd-funded science-experiments together while living in cheap housing
21:28:56  <creationix>did I mention it's cheap?
21:28:59  <chrisdickinson>haha
21:30:08  <chrisdickinson>I occasionally wrestle with the thought of moving back to Lawrence (in KS); the rent is super cheap and its within spitting distance of google fiber
21:30:41  <creationix>we don't have fiber, but I do have good LTE AT&T as well as Verizon, 50 megabit cable and good DSL
21:30:46  <mint_xian>Pity that spit has a terrible bandwidth.
21:30:52  <creationix>not bad for a town without even a gas-station
21:31:18  <creationix>(I actually canceled my DSL, the other 3 methods were enough for me)
21:32:25  <chrisdickinson>(on the other hand, I've gotten sort of addicted to the number of trees and changes in elevation here in Oregon; it somewhat alleviates the pain of being a comcast customer)
21:32:43  <substack>proximity to collaborators and taco trucks is nice
21:33:34  <creationix>yeah, I really miss proximity to collaborators and taco trucks
21:33:54  <creationix>If my kids grandparents (my parents) didn't live here, I wouldn't either
21:34:12  <substack>speaking of, thinking of getting a burrito soon
21:34:31  <creationix>substack, enjoy one for me, extra spicy
21:34:43  <substack>of course
21:35:18  <substack>I like to poke the jalapeños y zanahorias that come on the side straight into the burrito
21:35:26  <substack>and then pour hot sauce on top of that
21:36:02  <creationix>I wonder what fun food I can find in Italy at 10:30 at night
21:36:32  <creationix>hmm
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21:52:46  <fuz>look underneath the bed
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22:24:03  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 4, free: 33]
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22:54:16  <substack>ogd_: your concat-stream patches to http-browserify broke it in old browsers
22:54:21  <substack>because concat-stream does Array.isArray
22:54:43  <substack>so I'm going to have to take out concat-stream unless we can get a fix in quickly
23:00:55  <chrisdickinson>would be interesting to have a transform for es5-shim
23:05:41  <mikolalysenko>is there a good reason not to use instanceof Array?
23:06:20  <mikolalysenko>maybe it doesn't work with typedarrays?
23:07:01  <jesusabdullah>rvagg: whoa I didn't know about the extra-args-to-nexttick thing
23:07:19  <rvagg>jesusabdullah: you mean to setTimeout/setImmediate?
23:07:24  <rvagg>no extra-args for nexttick
23:07:25  <jesusabdullah>rvagg: yeah whups
23:07:40  <jesusabdullah>process.previousTick ;)
23:07:53  <rvagg>I'm a pretty liberal user of .bind() so it's not something that I normally bother with but the symmetry is appealing, hence the PR
23:08:09  <chrisdickinson>mikolalysenko: biggest problem is arrays from other realms / iframes
23:08:28  <mikolalysenko>chrisdickinson: can that happen in concat stream?
23:08:45  <chrisdickinson>it's relatively unlikely
23:09:54  <mikolalysenko>also how do realms mess up instanceof?
23:10:29  <chrisdickinson>instanceof compares constructor functions
23:10:51  <chrisdickinson>different realms/contexts have different instances of the `Array` function
23:11:04  <mikolalysenko>that seems crazy
23:11:24  <chrisdickinson>it's odd, but not insane -- enables browser-side sandboxing
23:11:34  <mikolalysenko>hmm
23:11:45  <mikolalysenko>but shouldn't they just pass json then? why pass objects?
23:11:49  <mikolalysenko>or strings or something
23:11:55  <mikolalysenko>I mean that is how webworkers do it
23:11:59  <ogd_>underscore does toString.call(obj) == '[object Array]';
23:12:12  <chrisdickinson>^^ that's the safe way to determine whether something is an array
23:12:23  <chrisdickinson>which is actually what Array.isArray does as well
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23:12:42  <mikolalysenko>ugh
23:12:58  <mikolalysenko>what if toString(obj) explodes into a giant blob of utf stuff
23:13:10  <mikolalysenko>so you accidentally trigger a giant malloc each time you call isArray?
23:13:48  <mikolalysenko>like someone passes you a bufferish object and toString converts it to a native js string (for example)
23:14:07  <chrisdickinson>it can't explode, really
23:14:15  <chrisdickinson>that's why they're using Object.prototype.toString.call(arr)
23:14:41  <chrisdickinson>it'll use Object's toString, which is defined as `'[object ' + constructorName + ']'`
23:14:44  <mikolalysenko>ah, got it
23:14:57  <ogd_>substack: published 1.2.1
23:15:09  <mikolalysenko>still, it does make a little bit of garbage
23:15:10  <jesusabdullah>chrisdickinson: can you do {}.toString.call(arr) ?
23:15:24  <jesusabdullah>ooh, YEAH you can
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23:15:44  <chrisdickinson>yep
23:16:21  <mikolalysenko>does this also apply to typedarrays?
23:16:36  <mikolalysenko>(the instanceof thing)
23:16:43  <jesusabdullah>substack: ogd_ sounds like tomorrow in sfbay is still on, you guys wanna meet somewhere?
23:17:04  <jesusabdullah>substack: ogd_ my default is that bar at haight/fillmore I met up with garann at that one time but, like, that's not very convenient
23:17:16  <ogd_>im out of town, back late
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23:17:26  <chrisdickinson>mikolalysenko: yes
23:18:19  <chrisdickinson>looks like i was wrong about v8 using toString; it appears to have a better, macro'd check internally
23:19:37  <substack>ogd_: thanks!
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23:20:27  <substack>ogd_: also do you think it's possible to get all the arraybuffer stuff in http-browserify without bops and concat-stream?
23:20:38  <substack>I'll push the working branch I have
23:21:33  <ogd_>substack: xhr2 with responsetype arraybuffer isnt streaming at all
23:21:45  <substack>yes
23:21:55  <chrisdickinson>moz-chunked-arraybuffer?
23:22:06  <ogd_>yea but only in FF
23:22:25  <substack>https://github.com/substack/http-browserify/blob/fewer-modules/lib/request.js#L82
23:24:03  <rowbit>Daily usage stats: [developer: 32, free: 651]
23:24:03  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 9, free: 20]
23:24:06  <mikolalysenko>chrisdickinson: very interesting information, I suppose I can understand why it works that way. though also a good reason to avoid cross domain stuff if you can...
23:24:29  <mikolalysenko>also I think it highlights a bug in ndarray too, since the way I am currently doing type checking is via instanceof...
23:27:23  <chrisdickinson>sidenote: tracked native-ness via https://github.com/v8/v8/blob/master/src/array.js#L1621 -> https://github.com/v8/v8/blob/master/src/macros.py#L106 -> https://github.com/v8/v8/blob/master/src/runtime.h#L615
23:29:23  <ogd_>chrisdickinson: do you remember the best way to check if something is a typed array? did we decide it was a big switch on toString() that checked for '[object Int8Array]' or '[object Uint8Array]' etc etc through all the possibilities?
23:29:29  <ogd_>substack: cause you might have to do o/
23:30:30  <substack>/Array/.test(Object.prototype.toString.call(obj)) ?
23:30:44  <ogd_>substack: that will be true for normal arrays too
23:30:59  <substack>you can check for [object Array] first
23:31:05  <ogd_>ah yea
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23:32:21  <mikolalysenko>chrisdickinson: as an aside, do you know much about how v8 determines which implementation of an array to use? I am pretty sure it can switch between b-trees and flat vectors, but I am not sure exactly what prompts it to select one implementation or the other
23:32:39  <ogd_>substack: then you can create a new big empty one and use .set to join them
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23:33:05  <substack>ogd_: what about new(this.body[0].constructor)(size)
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23:33:46  <chrisdickinson>mikolalysenko: if all of the elements are contiguous and are smi types then it'll use contiguous
23:33:46  <ogd_>substack: yea might work
23:33:49  <chrisdickinson>i mean, flat vectors
23:34:21  <mikolalysenko>smi types means that all entries are the same type?
23:34:32  <mikolalysenko>what happens if they aren't all the same? it switches to a b-tree right?
23:34:39  <mikolalysenko>or does it use a hash map?
23:34:39  <chrisdickinson>smi === small integer
23:34:43  <mikolalysenko>ah, got it
23:34:53  <mikolalysenko>so if you have an array of object refs, then no go
23:34:54  <chrisdickinson>unsure if doubles can be flat vectors
23:34:56  <chrisdickinson>right
23:34:58  <chrisdickinson>or mixed
23:35:02  <mikolalysenko>I think doubles can be flat vectors
23:35:11  <chrisdickinson>i think it falls back to object behavior
23:35:24  <mikolalysenko>but it is a bit weird though, since you can't initialize the double vectors to 0
23:35:47  <mikolalysenko>because doing that sets the type to an integer and then assigning thme a float value after the fact screws up the type conversion
23:36:03  <chrisdickinson>i think doubles might actually be on the heap by default
23:36:23  <mikolalysenko>do you know where to look in the v8 codebase to figure out how all this stuff works?
23:37:43  <substack>anyways I published this as http-browserify@1.0.0
23:37:51  <chrisdickinson>unsure, i'm guessing lithium.cc / hydrogen.cc
23:37:54  <substack>it will be a little bit until it gets pushed into browserify itself
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23:40:52  <substack>defunctzombie: ok I am going to start reorganizing away from browser-builtins as soon as I relocate
23:40:58  <substack>the cafe I'm in is closing shortly
23:41:09  <defunctzombie>substack: kk
23:41:34  <defunctzombie>substack: I'm just chillin and watching a movie on my laptop, so ping me whenever
23:41:46  <st_luke>Domenic_: when's the next time you think you'll be in the bay area?
23:42:00  <st_luke>what movie
23:42:01  * substackheading down to sudoroom
23:42:06  <st_luke>is it the lone ranger
23:42:09  <chrisdickinson>mikolalysenko: https://github.com/v8/v8/blob/master/src/hydrogen.cc#L2096
23:42:27  <defunctzombie>st_luke: Ronin
23:42:38  <st_luke>pretty close
23:42:51  <defunctzombie>hahaha
23:43:01  <substack>st_luke: you should drop by sudoroom for hackin too! you're pretty close in jack london
23:43:08  <Domenic_>st_luke: no plans yet, sorry to say... but there'll be something. conference or committee meeting or some such.
23:43:09  <substack>thursdays are js night
23:43:54  <st_luke>substack: I've been meaning to stop by
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23:44:32  <st_luke>didnt realize I was so close, I walk up that way sometimes
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23:45:42  <st_luke>substack: want to come to node summit tomorrow? i got a free ticket for whoever
23:45:52  <st_luke>you can hang out with the business bros
23:45:58  <st_luke>sales-bros
23:46:17  <substack>haha business bros
23:46:23  <jesusabdullah>st_luke: oh hey I'll be in town tomorrow
23:46:27  <ogd_>substack: dont do it
23:46:27  <jesusabdullah>st_luke: someone's flying me down
23:47:02  <st_luke>yeah dont do it, you might lose your hacker credibility
23:47:04  <substack>jesusabdullah: yeah let's all sit around somewhere and write modules or whatever
23:47:18  <defunctzombie>do it!!!
23:47:23  <defunctzombie>wear a suit!!
23:47:32  <defunctzombie>hahaha
23:47:47  <substack>defunctzombie: should I use your commonjs-assert module in browserify core [y/n]
23:47:56  <st_luke>defunctzombie wore a suit at empire js and look what happened to him
23:48:07  <ogd_>yea he works in south bay now!
23:48:11  <defunctzombie>substack: yes, but it doesn't work in IE < 9 iirc
23:48:18  <defunctzombie>substack: let me double check what I have it tested under
23:48:22  <substack>ok I'll just send you fixes for that
23:48:25  <defunctzombie>k
23:48:32  <st_luke>ogd_: wut?
23:48:37  <st_luke>last i checked he was in nyc
23:48:50  <jesusabdullah>sounds good substack
23:48:57  <jesusabdullah>I'll give everyone more deets as I get them :)
23:49:12  <st_luke>jesusabdullah: are you coming for an interview?
23:49:19  <jesusabdullah>st_luke: yeah
23:49:22  <st_luke>sweet
23:49:26  <ogd_>defunctzombie: where is courseoff based nowadays?
23:49:39  <defunctzombie>ogd_: "legally" delaware hahaha
23:49:46  <defunctzombie>ogd_: I am still in nyc tho
23:49:50  <defunctzombie>but right now in atlanta
23:49:58  <ogd_>defunctzombie: me too
23:50:01  <substack>defunctzombie: what is this? https://github.com/defunctzombie/commonjs-assert/blob/master/assert.js#L28
23:50:04  <ogd_>defunctzombie: i thought you were in redwood city?
23:50:04  <substack>util/ ?
23:50:17  <defunctzombie>ogd_: I was in San Mateo for the summer
23:50:37  <ogd_>defunctzombie: ohhh
23:50:38  <defunctzombie>substack: that is a nice hack to get the util module from node_modules
23:50:45  <defunctzombie>substack: when running the tests in node
23:50:53  <defunctzombie>substack: otherwise node doesn't look in node_modules first
23:51:19  <substack>ah k
23:54:43  <defunctzombie>substack: I just pushed browser testing stuff to commonjs-assert
23:55:43  <st_luke>people dont really like it when I send single word emails here
23:55:50  <st_luke>maybe I should send them without a subject line?
23:56:01  <defunctzombie>I never got the point of a subject line
23:56:12  <defunctzombie>it always makes me think when I should just write the email
23:56:41  <st_luke>jesusabdullah: when do you leave the bay?
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