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01:43:07  <feross>is there any reason that bops doesn't use the node Buffer API?
01:43:53  <feross>it's annoying to have to keep sending pull requests to make modules use bops
01:44:19  <feross>for modules that do a lot of binary stuff, it's sometimes a lot of work to port the module over
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04:55:11  <jesusabdullah>Cool, I just hacked together a cli tracker for my mood diary stuff
04:55:14  <jesusabdullah>cause fuck spreadsheets
04:55:19  <jesusabdullah>uses leveldb ^__^
04:55:28  <jesusabdullah>and the lex sorting of iso timestamps for much win
04:57:25  <rvagg>and you were the kind of spreadsheets once upon a time
04:59:20  <rvagg>s/kind/king/
04:59:22  <jesusabdullah>well
04:59:26  <jesusabdullah>it's just not the right fit
04:59:38  <jesusabdullah>this has automatic timestamping
04:59:54  <jesusabdullah>and I can create new fields with optimist --keys
05:00:06  <jesusabdullah>so it's pretty flex as long as I keep my keys consistent
05:00:18  <jesusabdullah>I'm only recording --mood --drinks --pots and --comments right now
05:03:05  <jesusabdullah>but yeah, doctor will be much proud
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05:16:10  <jcrugzz>jesusabdullah: yea thats a nice simple interface
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05:19:13  <jesusabdullah>I gotta mess with the timestamps a bit though, they're in ISO right now which is nice n' simple but these are going to be in the context of local time zone so...
05:19:27  <jesusabdullah>but I'll also have to do a data migration
05:19:29  <jesusabdullah>oh wellolol
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05:57:38  <feross>substack: why does buffer-browserify reimplement everything from scratch?
05:58:21  <feross>seems like it would be faster and take a lot less code if you used Uint8Arrays augmented to support the Buffer methods
05:58:58  <feross>and that way you'd get fast square-bracket access
06:05:29  <timoxley>feross: possibly because browser compatibility
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07:40:03  <gozala>substack: does browserify -t option works only for entry point or -r entries ?
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07:40:53  <gozala>substack: or is it possible to say use this transform for all the files with specific extension ?
07:41:59  <substack>gozala: it only operates on top-level files, not files in node_modules
07:42:35  <substack>this is so transforms won't have spooky-action-at-a-distance style side-effects that propagate up to dependencies
07:42:36  <gozala>I see, so require with relative paths ?
07:43:35  <substack>mostly, but relative requires into a node_module directory will not be run under the transform
07:44:04  <gozala>substack: and what kind of sourceMap support is there for transforms ?
07:44:22  <gozala>I have not being using transforms yet
07:44:38  <gozala>was just browserifying compiled js files
07:44:49  <gozala>and source map inception seems to not quite work
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07:45:08  <gozala>substack: that’s why I started looking into transforms
07:45:26  <gozala>but I guess it won’t really solve my issue with source maps
07:45:43  <substack>transforms only need to output an inline source map with a base64-encoded sourceMappingURL data uri just like browserify itself
07:45:44  <gozala>substack: does browserify supports external source map files
07:46:29  <substack>browserify parses those file-local source maps and adds the content with offsets into the complete source map
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07:46:52  <substack>for an example look at how the coffeeify transform does it
07:47:40  <substack>browserify doesn't support external maps natively because those introduce too much coupling about where the external files should be located
07:47:58  <substack>you can always write a tool to extract them into a separate file
07:48:27  <gozala>substack: I see I guess that’s why it didn’t quite worked
07:48:42  <gozala>convert-source-map is interesting
07:49:01  <gozala>maybe I can use it to transform source map from what I have to what browserfy expects
07:49:03  <gozala>substack: tnx
07:49:28  <gozala>substack: oh one more thing
07:49:44  <substack>thlorenz did most of the source map work for browserify so you can just browse his github for useful modules
07:49:45  <gozala>all the examples seem to have require(“foo.coffee”)
07:50:01  <gozala>is file extension required for transforms ?
07:50:08  <substack>no
07:50:35  <substack>it's just a handy way of knowing when to apply the transformation
07:51:07  <substack>because then you can just do module.exports = function (file) { if (!/\.coffee$/.test(file)) return through(); ... }
07:51:20  <substack>but brfs for example doesn't have any checks like that
07:51:41  <substack>well except that it won't try to parse json files I think
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09:09:57  <gozala>Raynos: substack what’s idiomatic way to check if I get stdin do A else do B
09:10:04  <gozala>without setting up timers
09:15:26  <substack>gozala: how do you mean "get stdin"?
09:15:32  <substack>like isTTY or something else?
09:16:02  <gozala>if something is piped to my program I wan read from sdin if not read from some place else
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09:16:18  <gozala>substack:
09:16:20  <gozala>^
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09:17:33  <gozala>substack: only two things I can think of is use timeout and wait for some time to get input on stdin then fallback
09:17:50  <gozala>or do a readSync(stdin.fd, ...
09:18:00  <gozala>and see if I got something
09:21:07  <substack>gozala: you can check process.stdin.isTTY
09:21:34  <substack>that's what people usually do for what I think you're asking about
09:21:44  <gozala>substack: thanks, I did not knew it existed
09:22:12  <substack>yeah it's kind of obscure but pretty useful
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12:12:42  <yorick>substack: you duplicated tail -f?
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12:16:12  <substack>yorick: in catw?
12:16:33  <substack>watching css files is my use-case
12:16:36  <substack>in dev mode
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12:17:15  <yorick>substack: oh, it redoes it every time? that's more useful.
12:23:14  <substack>yep
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17:54:44  <substack>http://substack.net/task_automation_with_npm_run
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18:16:45  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 10]
18:17:00  <grncdr>substack: I commented on twitter
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18:19:14  <substack>grncdr: does exec() handle '&' on windows?
18:19:30  <grncdr>hm, I think so
18:19:35  <substack>that's the only thing I think if it handles && already
18:19:47  <grncdr>I've got to run out to the store for a minute
18:19:52  <substack>if so we need to publisize these facts more!
18:19:56  <grncdr>but I'll connect to a windows vm and check when I get back
18:20:00  <grncdr>yeah I was really surprised
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18:20:21  <grncdr>I wanted to write a big comment about how cmd.exe sucks, then I when I lucked into it, it sucked less than I thought ;)
18:22:12  <substack>grncdr: if you just post a follow-up on that npm issue thread I'll link to that from my article
18:26:10  <Domenic_>it handles &&, but not semicolons, notably
18:26:27  <substack>what about &?
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18:36:24  <defunctzombie>substack: imho much of the task automation should not be done like that if you have a node.js stack
18:36:56  <defunctzombie>substack: I do lots of client side work for my app and I would go crazy if I did it like that
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18:37:37  <grncdr>Domenic_: that's interesting about the semicolons
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18:38:10  <substack>defunctzombie: what kind of stuff do you usually do?
18:38:24  <substack>I just spin up `npm run watch` and `npm start` in dev and it's good to go
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18:39:29  <grncdr>hm, what's a long running command this machine is likely to have?
18:40:45  <defunctzombie>substack: I use middleware that does all the things your scripts are doing except I don't have to config anything in package.json
18:41:36  <defunctzombie>substack: the nice thing about middleware/modules for it just works when I spin up my server
18:41:45  <defunctzombie>tis the same reason I don't sue grunt
18:42:16  <defunctzombie>no point in having an all JS stack that is nicely integrated just to then treat it as if the pieces don't play nice together
18:42:43  <defunctzombie>but I totally think those instructions are valuable for rails folks or other langs/stacks to use good js modules well
18:43:05  <defunctzombie>cause those folks need easy ways to do this stuff during development and those stacks typically don't have nice integrations
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18:43:45  <substack>I don't like putting that stuff in my http server myself because I like that part to be more minimal
18:43:52  <substack>it's a valid approach though
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18:44:08  <grncdr>for reference & is not supported on windows :\
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18:45:27  <grncdr>so maybe I will get back to work on my bashful fork
18:45:31  <grncdr>not today though
18:45:45  <grncdr>today I go to Phoenix and see my newborn niece :)
18:46:25  <defunctzombie>substack: https://github.com/defunctzombie/localtunnel-server/blob/master/server.js#L133
18:46:31  <defunctzombie>substack: that's typically all I do
18:46:46  <defunctzombie>for the JS side of things, I am really bought into the whole module stuff now :)
18:46:58  <defunctzombie>I make everything work with require
18:47:40  <defunctzombie>so no js is ever served not through browserify in most of the things I do
18:48:00  <substack>what about the up-front build times?
18:48:11  <substack>as you bring up and down the server as you build it
18:48:26  <substack>I find those can be pretty significant on my low-powered hardware
18:48:31  <defunctzombie>substack: 1. I don't bring the server up and down
18:48:42  <defunctzombie>enchilada has watch support internally and is smart about it
18:48:56  <defunctzombie>during dev, when it detects a change it rebundles
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18:49:13  <substack>defunctzombie: how do you have on the server code if you don't bring it up and down?
18:49:13  <defunctzombie>during production I just restart in a cycle
18:49:30  <defunctzombie>substack: are we talking in production or development?
18:50:05  <substack>dev
18:50:13  <defunctzombie>in dev it is easy
18:50:23  <defunctzombie>I use node-dev to start the server
18:50:29  <defunctzombie>and that restarts itself when server code changes
18:50:36  <defunctzombie>it does not restart when my client js changes
18:50:50  <substack>but then it would still be restarting all the time
18:51:01  <defunctzombie>only if server code changed
18:51:01  <substack>and you still bear the up-front bundling costs when it starts up
18:51:04  <defunctzombie>and that is ok
18:51:07  <defunctzombie>yea, it is really fast
18:51:14  <substack>browserify isn't that fast
18:51:21  <defunctzombie>by the time I go to refresh my page most of the stuff is there
18:51:27  <defunctzombie>I found it to be fast enough
18:51:32  <substack>that would eat my battery pretty fast too
18:51:35  <defunctzombie>and I typically have non trivial pages
18:51:46  <defunctzombie>it does the same thing your scripts would be doing
18:52:04  <defunctzombie>since those would monitor and rebuild all the time anyway
18:52:10  <defunctzombie>this is just smarter about it
18:52:10  <substack>the scripts are using watchify which doesn't rescan everything, only the bit that changed
18:52:16  <substack>usually only takes around 400ms
18:52:23  <defunctzombie>same with this stuff
18:52:40  <substack>from-scratch compiles usually take about 10x that for my builds
18:52:53  <substack>for the big ones at least
18:53:04  <substack>not voxel-scale ones but lots of deps still
18:53:16  <defunctzombie>usually no more than a few seconds for me
18:53:22  <defunctzombie>and when I am working just on client stuff
18:53:26  <defunctzombie>the serveer doesn't restart
18:53:53  <defunctzombie>those files are reloaded separately with the internal watcher for enchilada (much like watchify)
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18:54:11  <defunctzombie>substack: we could try to make browserify faster too :)
18:54:23  <defunctzombie>substack: I think lots of time is spent in AST related things actually
18:54:57  <defunctzombie>but I don't really have issues with the speed for now :/ and do like it all just working when I bring my server up
18:55:22  <defunctzombie>whatever works for you tho :)
18:55:29  <defunctzombie>everyone will do what they are happy with
18:55:49  <defunctzombie>I typically move towards more "auto" stuff without things I have to manually type up
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18:56:43  <defunctzombie>to me grunt suffers from this problem, people end up writing entire "apps" to do who knows what in their gruntfiles
18:57:31  <substack>yes that is the biggest issue
18:57:37  <substack>too much configuration and customization
18:57:52  <substack>those big configurationy things should just be standalone programs
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19:11:32  <defunctzombie>agreed
19:13:15  <jjjohnny_>grunt more like uhg
19:15:12  <pkrumins>on windows i use win-bash
19:15:21  <pkrumins>http://win-bash.sourceforge.net/
19:15:56  <substack>pkrumins: cool, updating the article!
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19:16:12  <pkrumins>nice!
19:16:44  <substack>done
19:16:45  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 48]
19:17:02  <pkrumins>sweet
19:19:22  <grncdr>substack https://github.com/isaacs/npm/pull/4058#issuecomment-28661116
19:19:46  <grncdr>although actually, I'm tempted to put win-bash on npm...
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19:22:13  <substack>grncdr: if we also had something like `set -o pipefail` for bashful and `npm run` that would also rock
19:22:39  <shama>instead of building a cross platform bash into npm scripts... why not just create a cross platform library that you can fire off with npm scripts?
19:22:48  <substack>see the thread that andreypop and hij1nx are in on twitter
19:23:12  <grncdr>shama: that's kind of what bashful is?
19:23:28  <substack>grncdr: except it takes something people already know
19:23:34  <substack>it doesn't invent a new thing
19:23:59  <grncdr>right, but that's orthogonal to shamas question I think
19:24:40  <substack>you could always do that and put that stuff into bin/, it's just more terse this way
19:25:08  <grncdr>fwiw I still think https://github.com/isaacs/npm/issues/3999 is a good idea
19:25:26  <grncdr>but I'm getting distracted
19:25:39  <grncdr>shama: a cross-platform library for command execution is a great idea, but you quickly run into the problem of specifying complex commands
19:25:53  <grncdr>and complex compositions of commands as well
19:26:07  <substack>bash is a really good way of specifying a sequence of commands to run in order
19:26:12  <grncdr>so you can either a) invent a new syntax, or b) implement an existing syntax
19:26:22  <substack>and specifying how to plug the output of one command into the next or into a file
19:26:27  <grncdr>bashful goes with option b
19:26:33  <grncdr>whereas grunt etc go with option a
19:27:27  <grncdr>the advantage of option b is that many/most potential users don't have to learn a new way of specifying their commands
19:27:38  <grncdr>the advantage of option a is you get to start from a clean slate
19:27:56  <grncdr>so there's tradeoffs for sure, but I like option b personally
19:28:16  <shama>Id be happy to use bash if everyone I worked with did as well :)
19:28:34  <grncdr>used it you mean?
19:28:54  <substack>shama: we just need a workshopper adventure for bash
19:29:01  <substack>bash is really fun
19:29:05  <shama>that would be cool
19:29:18  <grncdr>I like that idea
19:29:21  <shama>Yes I love bash too
19:29:40  <shama>Grunt and bash can coexist though... they serve different needs
19:30:09  <grncdr>sure, Grunt implements a subset of the functionality of bash in a domain-specific way
19:30:13  <grncdr>that you have to learn how to use
19:30:44  <shama>not really... none of the grunt devs even think about bash
19:30:55  <grncdr>well, that much is obvious ;)
19:30:56  <shama>so if it does, it is by accident
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19:31:17  <grncdr>yeah, I'm not saying that Grunt set out to *be* a subset of bash
19:31:23  <grncdr>just that it *is*
19:31:34  <grncdr>I also totally get that a lot of people actually don't love bash
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19:31:48  <grncdr>which is fine, I'm not out to make them love it or something
19:31:59  <grncdr>but I do want to remove the "but windows!" excuse
19:33:53  <substack>same
19:34:04  <grncdr>like, lots of people never do more than cd/ls/cp/mv/vim in their terminals, so it's not like they're going to become bash wizards if `npm exec` becomes the thing I want it to be
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19:34:43  <grncdr>but on the other hand, knowing how to be a bash power-user to some degree is a much more transferrable/valuable skill
19:34:52  <grncdr>because bash is a more general tool than grunt
19:35:05  <grncdr>so I'd prefer if more people were more comfortable with it
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19:36:20  <grncdr>otoh, I'm really leaning towards trying to convince isaacs that node on windows should package win-bash, because I'm not a huge fan of duplicating work
19:37:12  <grncdr>"First of all, you should keep in mind that win-bash is based on a old version of bash (1.14.2)" nevermind then
19:37:55  <grncdr>bashful actually seems like a much better path now… :P
19:38:16  <grncdr>also shama are you @shamakry on twitter?
19:38:25  <shama>grncdr: I am
19:38:55  <grncdr>ah ok, I thought so, just didn't want to assume
19:39:00  <grncdr>hi :)
19:39:04  <shama>hello :)
19:41:00  <shama>FWIW, I dont think trashing Grunt will sell the idea any better. People do stupid things with Grunt like any other tool. I can write really terrible things in bash but it doesnt make it less of a tool.
19:41:18  <grncdr>I'm really not trashing Grunt?
19:41:28  <grncdr>I've used it before, I didn't hate it
19:41:41  <grncdr>sent some pull-requests to various grunt plugins
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19:43:33  <grncdr>but in the end the only rational justification I could find for using it (over npm scripts) is that it is cross-platform and has lots of plugins
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19:44:16  <grncdr>so I'm fixing the first one for bash, because it's less tools for me to have to understand and keep up to date with
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19:45:49  <grncdr>(the second one is mostly a non-issue, most of the things that have grunt plugins also have cli scripts)
19:47:35  <grncdr>but yeah, please don't think I'm trashing Grunt. It's a well-run and well-maintained project that fills a real need. I disagree with the *way* it solves some problems, but that doesn't mean I think it sucks ;)
19:49:26  <substack>for me it just doesn't feel necessary and I don't quite get the appeal of it
19:49:56  <substack>but then I also really like bash
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20:16:45  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 28]
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21:16:45  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [free: 29]
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