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01:00:38  <jesusabdullah>mikolalysenko: maybe le, lte, ge, gte?
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01:10:09  <mikolalysenko>jesusabdullah: not bad
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01:30:07  <mikolalysenko>jesusabdullah: I think I'm gonna use that instead
01:30:43  <mikolalysenko>new API: https://github.com/mikolalysenko/binary-search-bounds
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01:41:54  <jesusabdullah>aha!
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02:58:12  <defunctzombie>so I forked the longjohn long stack traces module and did some cleanup and converted to js
02:58:14  <defunctzombie>https://github.com/defunctzombie/node-superstack
02:58:23  <defunctzombie>would appreciate any feedback or more testing if you are brave :)
02:58:34  <defunctzombie>the benefits are pretty solid when you encounter async errors
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03:41:46  <mikolalysenko>1D interval tree : https://github.com/mikolalysenko/interval-tree-1d
03:41:49  <mikolalysenko>with updates!
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03:58:18  <owen1>substack: do u mind sharing some cheap places outside of the city center?
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03:59:13  <substack>owen1: anywhere?
03:59:42  <substack>owen1: just search for "beijing hostel"
03:59:47  <substack>there are so many
04:00:04  <substack>I found one right next to the conf
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04:01:35  <owen1>substack: how many days are u planning to stay? i'll be there for a month. did u try airb&b?
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04:37:28  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 50.57.102.133 (dev-ie7-2)
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05:04:24  <st_luke_>@Domenic_ https://github.com/isaacs/npm/issues/3995#issuecomment-26393131
05:06:09  <grncdr>st_luke_: has anybody ever proposed npm acting more like git? (e.g. npm somecommand checks for existence of executable named npm-somecommand)
05:06:56  <grncdr>seems like it would lower the barrier for extending npm significantly
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05:21:25  <st_luke_>grncdr: the idea is to split npm up into smaller pieces so you can use the parts you want easier
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06:16:14  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 135]
06:29:10  <substack>yay nice stats
06:29:20  <pkrumins>woo
06:32:28  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.102.133(dev-ie7-2)
06:33:49  <pkrumins>yes, still down
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08:09:28  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: At least 5 people waiting in the queue for free servers! (Waiting: 5)
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08:32:28  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.102.133(dev-ie7-2)
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09:16:44  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 37]
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10:16:44  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 89]
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10:32:28  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.102.133(dev-ie7-2)
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11:16:44  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 38]
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11:27:29  <rvagg>rowbit, more like nagbit
11:34:28  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: At least 5 people waiting in the queue for free servers! (Waiting: 5)
11:37:43  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) dominic@... successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
11:37:43  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
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11:55:45  <spion>mikolalysenko, apropos the chaining discussion, https://github.com/spion/modular-chainer
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12:04:37  <spion>also grncdr :)
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12:10:29  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: At least 5 people waiting in the queue for free servers! (Waiting: 5)
12:16:44  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 94, free: 51]
12:18:49  <dominictarr>oh man, grunt is so verbose
12:18:57  <dominictarr>what happened to bash scripts?
12:19:06  <substack>dominictarr: right?
12:19:35  <substack>"scripts": { "athing": "bin/athing.sh" }
12:19:38  <substack>npm run athing
12:19:39  <substack>so easy
12:19:42  <dominictarr>exactly
12:20:02  <dominictarr>this module https://github.com/cpettitt/graphlib-dot
12:20:09  <dominictarr>has a 150 line grunt file
12:20:43  <dominictarr>I'll allow people to use grunt when building apps for their consulting business
12:21:05  <dominictarr>if they really want
12:21:35  <substack>it's like writing bash as a json object
12:23:28  <dominictarr>and you have to document the grunt options for that grunt module
12:23:45  <dominictarr>because they work different to the cli options
12:24:50  <dominictarr>actually… this project has a Gruntfile AND a Makefile ...
12:24:55  <substack>everything is different for no reason
12:31:50  <spion>how about shelljs?
12:32:29  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.102.133(dev-ie7-2)
12:32:40  <dominictarr>substack: maybe a json -> bash compiler?
12:32:57  <dominictarr>since people love build steps so much
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13:16:44  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 79, free: 356]
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14:08:12  <dominictarr>substack: what where you using to show dep trees at lxjs
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14:15:11  <mmalecki>anyone here looking for a node/C dev :-D ?
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14:32:29  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.102.133(dev-ie7-2)
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14:49:29  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: At least 5 people waiting in the queue for free servers! (Waiting: 7)
14:53:59  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: Encoders down: 50.57.226.209 (free4)
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15:16:37  <pkrumins>dominictarr: can you merge this? https://github.com/dominictarr/scuttlebutt/pull/28
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15:19:09  <dominictarr>pkrumins: hmm, I don't see what is happening?
15:19:36  <dominictarr>is the first chunk empty?
15:19:59  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: At least 5 people waiting in the queue for free servers! (Waiting: 6)
15:20:42  <dominictarr>curious, because scuttlebutt hasn't changed in ages, so I want to know what is happinging if there is a problem
15:23:09  <dominictarr>pkrumins: if you are getting an error there, there is another problem
15:23:20  <pkrumins>dominictarr: i actually don't know the internal details of scuttlebutt
15:23:28  <pkrumins>so i don't know wha the first chunk is
15:23:33  <dominictarr>my guess is that the first chunk is being dropped
15:23:47  <dominictarr>pkrumins: the seaport tests pass?
15:24:18  <pkrumins>one sec
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15:24:36  <dominictarr>can you log the data in the scuttlebutt stream and gist it?
15:24:54  <pkrumins>everything usually works locally, but as soon as we put things in production a lot of things break
15:25:28  <pkrumins>dominictarr: yes, i can do that. can you tell me what you'd like me to log?
15:26:02  <pkrumins>dominictarr: so we've about 20 different services connecting to the seaport hub in production
15:26:22  <pkrumins>dominictarr: and seaport starts crashing in a loop with that error that i pasted
15:26:55  <dominictarr>log c's output https://github.com/substack/seaport/blob/master/index.js#L90
15:28:27  <dominictarr>pkrumins: did you update all the seaport instances?
15:30:26  <pkrumins>yes i updated all the instances
15:30:54  <pkrumins>we moved everything to the latest seaport a few days ago
15:32:42  <pkrumins>dominictarr: all tests pass
15:32:47  <pkrumins>ok now logging c's output
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15:33:05  <dominictarr>pkrumins: gist?
15:33:18  <pkrumins>not yet, adding logging now
15:33:48  <pkrumins>dominictarr: should i remove that patch temporarily so the error happens while this is getting logged?
15:34:20  <pkrumins>i can do that for a few mins but then i've to put it back or else everything is down
15:35:02  <dominictarr>pkrumins: if possible, yes
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15:36:00  <dominictarr>pkrumins: what happens with the patch in place? does it just work like normal?
15:36:11  <pkrumins>yes, everything works like normal
15:36:24  <pkrumins>and works super well
15:36:51  <pkrumins>without that patch nothing works because of that infinite crashing loop
15:38:03  <dominictarr>I'm just concerned that there is another bug lurking
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15:38:15  <dominictarr>because that should never happen
15:38:19  <pkrumins>dominictarr: yep, we can try to figure it out
15:42:01  <pkrumins>ok i'm getting output!
15:42:03  <pkrumins>gisting
15:42:24  <pkrumins>dominictarr: here you go https://gist.github.com/pkrumins/4f33ec5dd9370447c7b7
15:42:34  <pkrumins>dominictarr: this is with the patch in place
15:47:16  <pkrumins>oh but this is just for one connection
15:48:54  <dominictarr>this line: https://gist.github.com/pkrumins/4f33ec5dd9370447c7b7#file-gistfile1-txt-L2
15:49:03  <dominictarr>is not part of the crdt protocol
15:49:33  <dominictarr>I think that is dnode
15:50:13  <pkrumins>yes that's dnode
15:50:15  <dominictarr>pkrumins: my guess is that you still have a service with the old client
15:50:30  <pkrumins>good guess!
15:50:42  <dominictarr>I think the solution is to change the patch to emit error on that stream
15:51:00  <dominictarr>and include the ip address:port of the connection
15:51:36  <dominictarr>and just listen for that error on the server (avoiding the crash) and log the message, so you know which service is out of date.
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15:58:37  <pkrumins>dominictarr: thanks, i'll do that!
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16:00:06  <dominictarr>substack: defunctzombie thlorenz_ https://twitter.com/dominictarr/status/390498639295967232
16:00:09  <pkrumins>dominictarr: so i was logging all the data that gets sent to seaport, and can you take a look at this paste and see if this is normal? https://gist.github.com/pkrumins/50b1402980f5326ec103
16:00:21  <pkrumins>every single message gets repeated like 20 times
16:00:39  <pkrumins>is that because all nodes are synchronizing?
16:00:57  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: :)
16:01:29  <dominictarr>defunctzombie: substack thlorenz_ I'm thinking a kick starter to build a browserify-aware minifier
16:01:56  <dominictarr>that replaced require() and module.exports
16:01:58  <defunctzombie>we have talked about it… ro change the require strings to numbers
16:02:07  <defunctzombie>that would save a lot of what they are complaining about
16:02:10  <defunctzombie>with the "overhead"
16:02:19  <dominictarr>I think it can go smaller
16:02:38  <dominictarr>we need to eliminate that objection (as silly as it is)
16:03:04  <defunctzombie>personally I don't care about that objection right now :/
16:03:10  <defunctzombie>if someone does it yay
16:03:14  <dominictarr>pkrumins: can you log it with the remoteAddress of the connection?
16:03:17  <defunctzombie>but I value the modularity a lot lot more
16:03:21  <defunctzombie>for my own code
16:03:36  <ins0mnia>hey guys, anyone seen this error "websocket closed before connection established" before? happens maybe 3-5% of the time (sockjs+shoe)
16:03:39  <dominictarr>defunctzombie: I want more people to write modules
16:03:46  <pkrumins>dominictarr: doing that
16:03:53  <dominictarr>pkrumins: cool
16:04:08  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: teaching people why modules and require is good is like trying to convert them to a different religion
16:04:38  <defunctzombie>if they want to do things in a dumb way… I just shrug and let them discover the way on their own
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16:05:17  <dominictarr>defunctzombie: yes. too many are worshipping the false idol of minification
16:05:25  <defunctzombie>if someone loves to type the same thing over and over and make fun little build files.. then so be it.. if I really want their code I will fork it and change it
16:05:40  <defunctzombie>I have 0 issues with forking a project and making it better for my own needs
16:05:59  <defunctzombie>the false idol of minification indeed
16:06:00  <dominictarr>defunctzombie: but, if they wrote something modular, you wouldn't need to waste your time with that
16:06:06  <defunctzombie>of course
16:06:11  <dominictarr>that is the idea
16:06:13  <defunctzombie>I would prefer that they did the work for me
16:06:28  <defunctzombie>but engineers like to engineer
16:06:31  <dominictarr>and there are a few big projects like d3 and three.js
16:06:41  <defunctzombie>and making a little script to engineer your files together is something an engineer can do
16:06:42  <dominictarr>that would get a lot of people to browserify if they used it
16:06:46  <defunctzombie>and feel accomplished
16:07:28  <defunctzombie>I don't care what bundler people use really, I am just a fan of "require" calls and avoiding stupid file level nesting to "namespace" something
16:07:48  <defunctzombie>require gives me parity with python import and such
16:08:01  <defunctzombie>and for people that are too blind to see why those are good things I don't have that much to say :/
16:08:47  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: we can only lead the horse to water
16:09:26  <dominictarr>defunctzombie: yes. we don't have to convice everyone
16:09:39  <dominictarr>just the influential people
16:11:08  <dominictarr>defunctzombie: this idea http://www.nonblocking.io/2011/12/experimental-support-for-common-js-and.html
16:11:09  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: indeed
16:12:13  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: ew
16:12:35  <defunctzombie>honestly, the major optimization I see is just string replace in the require call
16:13:03  <defunctzombie>with browserify we already do many awesome things to keep the overhead small
16:13:16  <defunctzombie>and it is so trivial even in the case of d3
16:13:29  <defunctzombie>when you consider that after gzip it is still less than a single image
16:13:43  <defunctzombie>optimizers for require will get better
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16:13:50  <defunctzombie>so if you write require today, you benefit tomorrow
16:13:55  <defunctzombie>without any changes to your code
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16:16:44  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 1, free: 70]
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16:28:01  <pkrumins>dominictarr: i found the server that was running the old version of seaport!
16:28:17  <dominictarr>pkrumins: excellent!
16:28:19  <pkrumins>dominictarr: ok i'll upgrade it and then remove the patch to see if seaport still crashes
16:28:25  <dominictarr>cool
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16:32:29  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.102.133(dev-ie7-2)
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16:41:48  <pkrumins>dominictarr: upgraded that server. now removing this patch and seeing what happens
16:42:16  <pkrumins>dominictarr: also this is pretty weird - upon connecting the seaport services exchange 500KB of data
16:43:32  <dominictarr>pkrumins: we should fix that.
16:43:40  <pkrumins>ok
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16:45:24  <dominictarr>brb relocating
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16:47:31  <pkrumins>k
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17:06:25  <Domenic_>st_luke: such a nice response
17:06:32  <st_luke>just now?
17:07:00  <st_luke>heh
17:07:05  <Domenic_>ya
17:07:34  <Domenic_>i'da been like, wtf is this, just tell the other guys to put their stuff in package.json
17:07:46  <Domenic_>what is a meta, npm is not a meta manager
17:08:10  <st_luke>it was weird how on that site that was linked npm wasn't mentioned
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17:13:05  <st_luke>oh man, I dont know if I'm ready for a meta config file discussion on github first thing in the morning
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17:16:44  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 63]
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17:19:36  <grncdr>but meta.json will be the ultimate all-seeing all-knowing config file
17:19:44  <grncdr>you cannot hide from meta.json
17:20:35  <grncdr>on a more serious note, the more I think about it the more I think that npm should search for missing commands as scripts named npm-<command> in $PATH
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17:21:10  <grncdr>If I can get npm-exec to the point where it's worthy of being used in npm itself I will definitely add that feature
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17:24:01  <pkrumins>dominictarr: yo
17:24:24  <pkrumins>dominictarr: so moving that server to latest seaport fixed that patch issue
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17:25:09  <dominictarr>pkrumins: I should merge the patch, but it shouldn't fail silently, it should error
17:25:21  <dominictarr>if you update that I'll merge
17:25:25  <pkrumins>right!
17:25:51  <pkrumins>but what would be a proper way to error in that place?
17:25:59  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: At least 5 people waiting in the queue for free servers! (Waiting: 5)
17:27:16  <defunctzombie>st_luke: Domenic_ link? I wanna see this awesome
17:27:46  <pkrumins>dominictarr: i'm not familiar with how scuttlebutt works at all
17:27:58  <pkrumins>dominictarr: i understand i should emit an error to the stream
17:28:04  <pkrumins>just not sure which one
17:28:13  <grncdr>defunctzombie: https://github.com/isaacs/npm/issues/3998
17:29:08  <dominictarr>pkrumins: just change this to emit an error https://github.com/dominictarr/scuttlebutt/pull/28/files#diff-168726dbe96b3ce427e7fedce31bb0bcR143
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17:29:25  <pkrumins>instead of that patch i could: if (!data || !data.clock) { stream.emit('error', 'wrong data'); return d._end() } or soemthing
17:29:29  <pkrumins>looking
17:29:53  <pkrumins>dominictarr: yes exactly, but which stream do i emit error on?
17:30:19  <pkrumins>is it d?
17:30:29  <dominictarr>oh, right - just do d.emit('error')
17:30:29  <pkrumins>d.emit('error', 'wrong data')?
17:30:44  <pkrumins>ok!
17:30:58  <dominictarr>scuttlebutt only has the one stream, it can't see any other streams until you pipe it.
17:30:59  <defunctzombie>hahaha
17:31:02  <defunctzombie>that is hilarious
17:31:12  <defunctzombie>grncdr: I had to troll respond
17:31:13  <pkrumins>dominictarr: got it, i didnt know that!
17:31:23  <grncdr>defunctzombie: :|
17:31:36  <dominictarr>defunctzombie: grncdr wtf is meta.json for?
17:31:46  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: you know… for the meta things hahaha
17:31:55  <defunctzombie>you never know when you need more meta things
17:31:56  <grncdr>dominictarr: nobody knows
17:32:36  <grncdr>the big justification seems to be "there are too many files in my project directory"
17:32:46  <grncdr>but I'm not even sure about that
17:33:09  <st_luke>https://i.cloudup.com/Qhi7qgLoPl.gif
17:33:16  <dominictarr>the better solution is that the other package managers just handle package.json
17:33:37  <defunctzombie>st_luke: wow
17:34:05  <dominictarr>grncdr: solution: rm component.json bower.json
17:34:19  <dominictarr>now there is only one .json file
17:34:31  <st_luke>you could just namespace it yourself in package.json if it's such an issue
17:34:57  <st_luke>it's not like we're making component.json sit at the back of the bus
17:35:11  <grncdr>dominictarr: I think you've confused me with somebody who thinks meta.json is a good idea :P
17:35:57  <defunctzombie>hahaha
17:36:04  <dominictarr>grncdr: haha, if you thought that was a good idea, I don't think you'd be hanging out in #stackvm
17:36:16  <grncdr>fair enough
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17:36:47  <grncdr>speaking of, I should probably do some of the crap I'm paid for before I spend all day hacking on npm again
17:36:57  <st_luke>you never know, this room comes around to new things over time
17:37:08  <st_luke>remember when everyone in here used to hate promises
17:37:15  <st_luke>soon we'll be writing iced coffeescript
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17:38:13  <grncdr>you aren't already?
17:38:39  * grncdrscuttles off "workworkwork"
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17:39:35  <defunctzombie>st_luke: take it back
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17:46:05  <pkrumins>dominictarr: patch updated https://github.com/dominictarr/scuttlebutt/pull/28
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17:46:50  <pkrumins>dominictarr: would you have time to discuss this other issue i'm seeing with seaport/scuttlebutt/crdt in production?
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17:50:23  <dominictarr>pkrumins: sure, what is it?
17:50:57  <dominictarr>pkrumins: merged into 5.6.8
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17:51:12  <dominictarr>pkrumins: oh, you mean the 500k thing?
17:52:59  <pkrumins>yeah the 500k thing
17:53:01  <pkrumins>now it's over 600k!
17:53:09  <pkrumins>the data just keeps accumulating
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17:53:39  <pkrumins>so each time i restart seaport, we use 1 gig of data
17:53:58  <pkrumins>we've 20 seaport services, and each sends 600k upon a restart
17:54:27  <pkrumins>plus they send about a meg of data a minute around
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17:55:00  <pkrumins>i'm worried about our bandwidth bill
17:55:28  <pkrumins>thanks for merging in 5.6.8 btw!
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18:02:50  <dominictarr>pkrumins: hmm, it must be echoing stuff incorrectly.
18:03:12  <dominictarr>it's meant to not echo things that are already old
18:03:53  <dominictarr>20 * 600 is old 12000k
18:04:07  <dominictarr>*only
18:04:24  <dominictarr>mg a minute is too much too
18:05:18  <pkrumins>oh whoops
18:05:55  <pkrumins>i accidentally the units
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18:11:31  <thlorenz_>dominictarr: what about https://github.com/ben-ng/minifyify ?
18:12:21  <dominictarr>thlorenz_: that solves a separate problem
18:12:28  <thlorenz_>ok
18:13:56  <thlorenz_>dominictarr: gotta go, but once you get some info on this up in a gist somewhere let me know, sounds interesting
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18:16:44  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 330]
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18:22:47  <dominictarr>pkrumins: I've gotta work on my presentation for realtimeconf, will get the 500k problem fixed after that
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18:25:08  <pkrumins>dominictarr: okay cool
18:25:14  <pkrumins>dominictarr: you've my full cooperation
18:25:32  <pkrumins>dominictarr: we can debug it any way you wish on the production servers :)
18:25:40  <dominictarr>sweet!
18:25:53  <pkrumins>dominictarr: also i'm hopefully (if i get my visa) be in oakland with substack in november
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18:26:08  <pkrumins>i got my visa denied so far
18:26:13  <dominictarr>haha, cool! I'll be in china then
18:26:14  <dominictarr>:(
18:26:31  <dominictarr>US border is terrible
18:26:48  <dominictarr>soooooo paranoid
18:26:50  <pkrumins>but i've another visa interview and i got recommendation letters this time
18:27:01  <pkrumins>i i've good chances i get it this time
18:27:04  <dominictarr>very good
18:27:30  <pkrumins>are you going to china straight from portland?
18:27:30  <dominictarr>mmalecki mentioned that if you wrote a book (and are thus an expert), that helps
18:27:39  <pkrumins>i did write a book
18:27:47  <pkrumins>www.nostarchpress.com/perloneliners
18:27:50  <dominictarr>pkrumins: no, sf, london, then china
18:27:54  <pkrumins>do you think i should mention that?
18:28:27  <dominictarr>pkrumins: sure!
18:28:32  <pkrumins>i'll do that then!
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18:28:35  <pkrumins>i thought it was irrelevant
18:28:48  <dominictarr>mention it, but don't go into detail if they don't ask
18:28:56  <pkrumins>i'll just print this page
18:29:00  <dominictarr>no sense of humor or interests
18:29:14  <pkrumins>and attach it to the pile of docs that i'm already giving them
18:29:29  <pkrumins>no sense of humor or interests?
18:29:30  <dominictarr>pkrumins: what sort of visa are you applying for?
18:29:43  <pkrumins>visitors/business b1/b2
18:30:02  <pkrumins>i was rejected the first time (last week) because i can't work with that visa in the usa
18:30:17  <pkrumins>but i'm not going to work
18:30:23  <pkrumins>i'm going to raise another investing round
18:30:34  <pkrumins>so that's what i'm going to clarify in this 2nd interview
18:30:56  <dominictarr>right, and you are part owner of browserling too
18:31:12  <pkrumins>yes!
18:31:25  <pkrumins>i'm going to emphasize that in this interview too
18:32:19  <dominictarr>probably bring the paperwork for that
18:32:29  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.102.133(dev-ie7-2)
18:32:53  <dominictarr>since you are looking for investors for your particially american company
18:33:06  <pkrumins>^^ this is another issue with seaport/scuttlebutt/crdt - this server gets thrown out of seaport registry
18:33:14  <pkrumins>we'll debug that with james later
18:33:19  <pkrumins>dominictarr: right!
18:33:43  <dominictarr>like, if you where travelling to see american clients, that would be fnie
18:33:45  <dominictarr>fine
18:34:00  <dominictarr>or if you where on a sales trip
18:34:19  <pkrumins>raising money is also fine
18:34:22  <pkrumins>but programming is not!
18:34:41  <dominictarr>right.
18:34:43  <grncdr>damn, if I'd waited a little while I would've had npm issue #4000
18:35:05  <pkrumins>grncdr: :)
18:35:34  <pkrumins>dominictarr: you do have some kind of special treaty between us and au, right?
18:35:54  <pkrumins>dominictarr: so you can easily come and go between us and au
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18:37:22  <dominictarr>pkrumins: I'm from nz, but same treaty
18:37:43  <dominictarr>I just fill out a form for an "esta waiver"
18:37:50  <dominictarr>(online form)
18:38:18  <dominictarr>but one time I still had trouble at the border, and had to go through secondary screening
18:38:44  <pkrumins>what was that like?
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18:39:01  <pkrumins>i'm banned from esta as i had a visa refused
18:39:02  <dominictarr>basically, it was like getting into trouble in high school
18:39:35  <grncdr>^^ I have done that as well
18:39:43  <grncdr>pretty much how it went for me
18:39:48  <pkrumins>grncdr: where are you from?
18:39:52  <grncdr>Canada
18:39:55  <pkrumins>wow
18:40:07  <dominictarr>they threaten you to try to scare you into confessing to whatever they think you may be gilty of
18:40:09  <pkrumins>didnt think they'd ever do that to canadians
18:40:13  <grncdr>it was really just a nuisance
18:40:16  <grncdr>yeah, it's pretty rare
18:40:29  <grncdr>I've crossed the border probably > 100 times
18:40:29  <pkrumins>dominictarr: and how long did it go?
18:40:38  <dominictarr>2 hours
18:40:38  <pkrumins>grncdr: ic
18:40:41  <pkrumins>dominictarr: jesus
18:40:45  <dominictarr>I missed my connecting flight
18:40:51  <pkrumins>wow
18:41:04  <dominictarr>but thankfully, the airline put me on the next one when they let me though
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18:41:37  <grncdr>I need some sort of triplexer... stupid stderr
18:42:13  <dominictarr>pkrumins: but in the end, if you stick to the story (helps if it's true), you'll probably get through
18:42:21  <dominictarr>as they are basically fishing for holes
18:42:38  <pkrumins>scary!
18:42:42  <dominictarr>pkrumins: also, in hindsite I realize what caused it
18:42:47  <pkrumins>yeah?
18:43:01  <dominictarr>I flew from dub -> zur, then to us
18:43:21  <dominictarr>but without going through passport control in zurich
18:43:42  <dominictarr>which looks suspucious
18:43:44  <pkrumins>don't you skip that if you just go through connecting flights?
18:44:00  <dominictarr>yes, but I had purchased the tickets separately
18:44:06  <pkrumins>ah
18:44:24  <dominictarr>that got me "random" security check in zurich
18:44:49  <dominictarr>and then when I arrived in US a guy was waiting for me, and took me straight to the front of the queue!
18:45:22  <dominictarr>I also try to fly direct to SFO if possible, I think they are more chilled out on the west coast.
18:45:56  <pkrumins>sucks
18:46:01  <dominictarr>but, if you have a visa, it probably wont be a problem because they can ask you all the questions up front
18:46:14  <dominictarr>pkrumins: yeah, It's all very silly
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19:08:51  <mmalecki>pkrumins: dominictarr if you have any questions about USA work visas, go ahead
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19:09:58  <pkrumins>mmalecki: you have usa work visa?
19:10:01  <pkrumins>which one do you have?
19:10:16  <pkrumins>mmalecki: i got my b1/b2 declined last week, but that's not a work visa
19:10:22  <mmalecki>pkrumins: nope, but I applied for one. O-1B. I quit before the process ever ended
19:10:32  <pkrumins>why did you quit
19:10:36  <mmalecki>yeah, B1/B2 is tourist, business only
19:10:36  <pkrumins>checking out o1b
19:10:40  <pkrumins>yeah
19:10:49  <mmalecki>you need H1 if you want to work
19:10:55  <mmalecki>do you have any formal education?
19:11:03  <mmalecki>or have written a book or something like that?
19:11:09  <pkrumins>yeah
19:11:10  <pkrumins>and yeah
19:11:32  <mmalecki>okay, do you have a company backing you in the USA?
19:11:37  <pkrumins>yeah
19:12:01  <pkrumins>browserling :)
19:12:09  <mmalecki>all right. do you have a lawyer? I can connect you to one. they were great with my friend's visa
19:12:27  <pkrumins>i dont have a lawyer, do i need one?
19:12:31  <pkrumins>how much does that lawyer cost?
19:12:43  <pkrumins>brb
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19:15:49  <pkrumins>back
19:16:27  <mmalecki>I have no idea tbh. you probably don't need one if you're applying for H1, since those are fairly simple
19:16:44  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 1, free: 62]
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19:18:07  <pkrumins>ok :)
19:19:40  * jolissjoined
19:19:48  <mmalecki>also, having written a book is great
19:20:03  <pkrumins>i'll emphasize it tomorrow
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19:20:50  <mmalecki>pkrumins: I gotta go, drop me an email if you want contact to this lawyer/have any questions
19:20:54  <mmalecki>me@mmalecki.com
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19:29:06  <pkrumins>mmalecki: ok thanks!
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20:16:44  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 71]
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20:32:30  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.102.133(dev-ie7-2)
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20:55:43  <tmcw>are there any libraries that just do the es5 array functions as functions, without all of the other underscore stuff?
20:56:07  <tmcw>like var map = require('somelib').map; map(myArray, myFunction);
20:57:53  <Maciek416>tmcw: I guess async.js
20:58:09  <Maciek416>which has non-async versions of everything
20:58:10  <tmcw>but for sync functions? like just the vanilla es5 implementations
20:58:14  <Maciek416>;)
20:59:06  <Maciek416>yeah it has sync versions and seems to defer to native impl.
20:59:15  <Maciek416>eg:
20:59:15  <Maciek416>https://github.com/caolan/async/blob/master/lib/async.js#L40
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21:00:10  <defunctzombie>tmcw: ?
21:00:24  <defunctzombie>tmcw: what do you mean… why not just use the es5 ones?
21:00:34  <tmcw>defunctzombie: ie...
21:00:50  <defunctzombie>tmcw: shim it… MDN provides the implementations :)
21:01:05  <tmcw>unfortunately. basically seeing a bunch of cases in mapbox.js where i'd like to use .map(fn) but it's a distributed library so I don't want to do a shim
21:01:15  <defunctzombie>why not?
21:01:26  <defunctzombie>with every new day, the requirement to use shims will be less and less
21:01:40  <defunctzombie>and for those people that don't even support older browsers, they won't care
21:01:57  <tmcw>sure, but this is a library that must support older ie, for now.
21:02:00  <defunctzombie>in any case, you could publish some map/reduce, etc to npm :)
21:02:06  <defunctzombie>and then use those
21:02:11  <defunctzombie>yea.. I follow
21:02:46  <defunctzombie>I think there are some versions on npm but not sure if those are the MDN copies
21:02:55  <tmcw>and changing on-page native prototypes, even for the reasons of shimming, seems dirty for that kind of thing - in crazy cases, the shim behavior could be different
21:03:57  <defunctzombie>yea, deff would not change the on page stuff
21:04:07  <defunctzombie>I would either require user to shim or use a module
21:04:30  <grncdr>tmcw: why not use e.g. lodash.map ?
21:05:02  <tmcw>grncdr: it's a distributed library, so it has to be super-tiny, and all i'm interested in is array functions
21:05:23  <tmcw>maybe uglify-js does enough dead code elimination, but I kind of doubt it on browserified output
21:05:43  <defunctzombie>grncdr: utility belt libraries are bad because they want to do everything
21:06:05  <defunctzombie>and when you want to update one version of a function they provide you ahve to update the whole lib
21:06:24  <grncdr>defunctzombie: I was under an incorrect impression regarding lodash
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21:06:35  <grncdr>they package all the methods individually
21:06:43  <defunctzombie>but.. on that note tho.. I think lodash does have custom build
21:06:46  <grncdr>but the individual packages depend on a bunch of other crap
21:06:55  <defunctzombie>ah
21:06:56  <defunctzombie>that sucks
21:07:14  <defunctzombie>tmcw: sounds like an opportunity to publish some useful modules ;)
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21:07:25  <grncdr>indeed
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21:08:33  <defunctzombie>tmcw: maybe call them mdn-map or spec-map I dunno and you could copy the MDN code
21:08:45  <defunctzombie>tmcw: that way it is as close to es5 as you will get :/
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21:09:20  <grncdr>es5-map
21:09:39  <defunctzombie>or that
21:10:18  <grncdr>then if you really want to be silly (hee hee) you can publish es5 that depends on all the other es5-* modules and monkeypatches the global prototypes
21:10:28  <grncdr>so I can do require('es5') from now on ;)
21:10:30  <defunctzombie>I think es5-shims exists
21:10:35  <grncdr>ah
21:11:42  <jesusabdullah>grncdr: do it, sometimes silly's acceptable
21:11:45  <timoxley>you could do something like a simple text replacement on the shim file so it adds the functions to some other object other than Array.prototype
21:12:11  <jesusabdullah>NOP
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21:13:14  <grncdr>require('es5')({Array: MyArray})
21:15:18  <grncdr>I'm too busy trying to do a bunch of stuff to npm and eating tacos at xolo
21:15:22  <grncdr>maybe later
21:15:28  <grncdr>also omg these tacos are so good
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21:22:51  <timoxley>dominictarr: it'd be nice if there was a way to force npmd to immediately update its meta info about a particular package or packages
21:23:32  <dominictarr>timoxley: can you post an issue?
21:23:38  <timoxley>sure
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21:24:08  <dominictarr>that is probably doable, you'd have to update the deps too
21:24:14  <dominictarr>hmm
21:24:54  <dominictarr>(I'm gonna rewrite it using cyphernet, which will make this stuff way easier)
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21:39:01  <timoxley>dominictarr: done https://github.com/dominictarr/npmd/issues/20
21:39:11  <timoxley>dominictarr: why cyphernet
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21:39:36  <dominictarr>timoxley: 2 reasons
21:39:49  <dominictarr>1 will be more precise and secure
21:40:24  <dominictarr>2 you could make npmd p2p
21:40:57  <dominictarr>3 because that is a challenging usecase for both ideas, that I care about
21:41:05  <dominictarr>(off my 1 error)
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21:47:43  <dominictarr>timoxley: replied
21:48:01  <timoxley>dominictarr: ok sounds interesting. how much overlap is there between cyphernet and scuttlebutt?
21:48:29  <dominictarr>similar idea
21:48:41  <dominictarr>but scuttlebutt is just a baby compared to cyphernet
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22:16:44  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 246]
22:17:35  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: looking at msgpack-stream, I'm wondering what/how do you use the different states https://github.com/dominictarr/msgpack-stream/blob/master/index.js#L111
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22:18:12  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: like you have four different cases where you check the chunk size (?) and based on that you determine the state?
22:19:20  <dominictarr>oh, I got that code from creationix
22:19:31  <dominictarr>from his smith rpc thing
22:19:43  <dominictarr>it stores the length as 4 bytes
22:20:05  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: I'm trying to write binary-stream wrapper for muxdemux and having hard time understanding the different states in this code
22:20:10  <dominictarr>but since those 4 bytes can overlap the end of the packet, it reads them as 4 separate states
22:20:15  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: right
22:20:32  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: why would they overlap at the end of the packaet?
22:20:41  <dominictarr>ins0mnia: I don't try to understand creationix's code, I just wrap it in something to make it easy to use :)
22:20:52  <ins0mnia>hehe ok
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22:21:07  <dominictarr>ins0mnia: the OS/network decides where to split each packet in tcp
22:21:27  <dominictarr>it could happen after 2 bytes in the length wrapper
22:21:49  <ins0mnia>got it
22:22:05  <dominictarr>do you mean "wrapper" like this https://github.com/dominictarr/mux-demux/blob/master/msgpack.js
22:22:10  <ins0mnia>yes
22:22:34  <dominictarr>so just use requrie('mux-demux/msgpack')
22:22:47  <ins0mnia>I can't
22:22:52  <ins0mnia>don't want to use strings
22:22:57  <ins0mnia>just raw binary data
22:22:58  <ins0mnia>as is
22:23:06  <ins0mnia>let both ends deal with it
22:23:47  <ins0mnia>I'm also trying to avoid base64 conversion..
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22:24:53  <dominictarr>ins0mnia: that one shouldn't use strings or base64
22:25:12  <dominictarr>what are you sending it over? shoe? or straight websockets?
22:26:10  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: straight websockets
22:26:19  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: websocket-stream + mux-demux
22:26:34  <dominictarr>okay, so where do strings come in?
22:26:53  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: ideally I would create a read stream for an image, pipe it into a muxdemux stream and let the browser do the canvas drawing from a blob
22:27:09  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: msgpack would convert this data into a string
22:27:21  <ins0mnia>base64 string
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22:27:30  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: in my case I want it untouched
22:27:33  <dominictarr>really? I thought it did a buffer?
22:28:04  <ins0mnia>don't think so (at least when I last checked)
22:28:12  <ins0mnia>also didn't work in the browser
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22:28:35  <dominictarr>well, the answer to that is to make tests that run on testling
22:28:53  <dominictarr>ah, I see
22:28:53  <dominictarr>https://github.com/creationix/msgpack-js
22:29:36  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: I also saw julian had an open issue about this, as well as some other guy, but no one got the time to implement this
22:29:40  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: so I thought I'd give it a go
22:29:56  <dominictarr>you just need to get this to pass https://ci.testling.com/creationix/msgpack-js
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22:32:30  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: These encoders are STILL down: 50.57.102.133(dev-ie7-2)
22:33:05  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: that I could do
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22:33:10  <grncdr>rubber duck question: does stream.pipe(otherStream) normally forward errors from stream to otherStream?
22:33:14  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: I was going to try binarypack
22:33:19  <dominictarr>grncdr: no
22:33:22  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: don't know if there are any performance differences
22:33:28  <grncdr>dominictarr: ah
22:33:37  <ins0mnia>getting msgpack-js to pass sounds like a good idea too
22:33:54  <dominictarr>yes, definately
22:33:56  <dominictarr>brb, food
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23:16:44  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 0, free: 64]
23:28:48  <robertkowalski>grncdr: barrage.syphon would do that for you: https://github.com/ForbesLindesay/barrage
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23:30:24  <grncdr>robertkowalski: good to know, unfortunately I'm working on somebody elses module that's mostly built on through/duplexer
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