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01:20:35  <tim_smart>OMG A LOUD BOT
01:20:36  <LOUDBOT>ONE MORE DISNEY DAY? NAH, HOW ABOUT ONE MORE LOUD DAY!
01:23:49  <rvagg>shhhh
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06:11:34  <substack>http://www.yasiv.com/npm#view/browserify-cdn
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06:12:38  <substack>jesusabdullah: just look at what you've done!
06:15:37  <jesusabdullah>holy shit
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06:17:28  <substack>modularity: doing it right
06:17:36  <jesusabdullah>npm and browserify are the largest chunks in here for sure
06:18:02  <jesusabdullah>connect and request make two more core nodes
06:18:18  <jesusabdullah>ohey and there's leveldb
06:18:57  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: i get reports from people that wzrd.in becomes slow if it runs without a restart after a couple of weeks
06:19:06  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: no idea why, just sharing
06:20:10  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: thanks
06:20:13  <mbalho>substack: similar to lexicographic-integer https://github.com/maxogden/varint/tree/buffer-read
06:20:31  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: I have some freelance taking up my free time lately, I hope to have it out the door soon and give browserify-cdn some tender lovin'
06:20:32  <mbalho>encode ALL the integers
06:20:36  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: w00t
06:20:44  <jesusabdullah>y'know, at least SOME
06:20:50  <mbalho>hah yea
06:21:00  <substack>mbalho: does it lexicographically sort?
06:21:09  <jesusabdullah>there's a cool feature like 4/5 done that exposes build info
06:21:10  <mbalho>substack: nope
06:21:26  <jesusabdullah>I want to rework the api a little though, and add a subset of npm metadata
06:21:27  <mbalho>substack: its similar in that its a fun module for encoding integers :D
06:21:33  <substack>hah ok
06:21:47  <mbalho>substack: based on https://developers.google.com/protocol-buffers/docs/encoding#varints
06:21:49  <jesusabdullah>substack: you can visualize choke points with this http://www.yasiv.com/npm#view/prompt
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06:22:15  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: are you using the read-installed module in browserify-cdn?
06:22:38  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: if you require('read-installed') and run it on a directory it gives you the metadata of every installed node module in the current directory tree
06:22:42  <jesusabdullah>I don't think so, we can check the package.json for sure
06:22:48  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: oh SICK
06:22:57  <mbalho>yea its awesome
06:22:57  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: can you make an issue about that?
06:23:00  <mbalho>sure
06:23:05  <jesusabdullah>awesome that would be great
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06:36:26  <DTrejo>substack: wanna check out my in-progress post on javascsript tooling? https://gist.github.com/DTrejo/b64e0ceaab4de461de52
06:37:06  <DTrejo>if you have any thoughts feel free to comment / reply here :)
06:40:51  <jesusabdullah>you know what might be a cool way to do concurrency with browserify-cdn?
06:41:05  <jesusabdullah>usenet-style message passing
06:42:45  <DTrejo>jesusabdullah: you too, if you have any thoughts on the post im all ears
06:42:48  <DTrejo>> https://gist.github.com/DTrejo/b64e0ceaab4de461de52
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06:50:03  <substack>DTrejo: have you seen coverify for coverage?
06:50:20  <DTrejo>no, ill look it up / add a link
06:50:31  <substack>http://github.com/substack/coverify
06:50:41  <DTrejo>thanks
06:51:03  <jesusabdullah>what happened to bunker
06:51:08  <jesusabdullah>I thought that was your coverage thinger
06:51:21  <jesusabdullah>oh this is for browserify nvm
06:57:24  <DTrejo>substack: do you think the memoery usage heatmap overlaid on code would be useful for finding memory leaks? asusming one could "tag " memory with the line it was created on
06:57:31  <DTrejo>which is the part that is probably not easy
07:00:15  <DTrejo>a flow typing paper that strobe is based on http://cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Papers/Published/gsk-flow-typing-theory/paper.pdf
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07:00:20  <DTrejo>i think
07:05:21  <DTrejo>want want want. now to use and/or rewrite the ocaml implementation that has no docs ;)
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09:27:21  <juliangruber>dominictarr: for replicating lists, crdt works better than merkle tree replication, right?
09:27:33  <juliangruber>or rather, how would level-merkle do conflict resolution?
09:27:49  <dominictarr>juliangruber: they both solve two different problems
09:28:01  <dominictarr>crdt is a datastructure
09:28:11  <dominictarr>and merkle tree is a handshake
09:28:19  <dominictarr>compare merkle to scuttlebutt
09:28:22  <juliangruber>ok, let me put it this way: if i need to replicacte lists of data in a distributed application, which libs should i use?
09:28:37  <dominictarr>aha, sure
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09:29:09  <juliangruber>rather small lists, should all fit in memory
09:29:37  <dominictarr>juliangruber: is this within your datacenter or p2p?
09:30:03  <juliangruber>dominictarr p2p
09:30:17  <juliangruber>it will run in browsers (+offline) and on a server
09:30:44  <dominictarr>can you describe the data?
09:30:50  <dominictarr>what are the lists of?
09:32:00  <juliangruber>mostly two parts:
09:32:07  <juliangruber>1) a chat / append only data structure
09:32:25  <juliangruber>2) one todo list per user, where there's some state saved per todo
09:32:31  <juliangruber>not sure yet if todos need to be reorderable
09:32:37  <juliangruber>if not, it's just a set, not a list
09:38:12  <juliangruber>i could just use crdt and level-scuttlebutt for now to get it working, but I was wondering what the "right" approach with the current state of the art in distirbuted node is
09:42:06  <dominictarr>juliangruber: sure
09:42:43  <dominictarr>okay, so there is one weakness to scuttlebutt that you should know about
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09:43:32  <dominictarr>it's possible for a peer to claim a timestamp in the future, or to pretend that they have no messages since a time
09:43:45  <dominictarr>basically, causing some information to be removed
09:44:50  <juliangruber>mmh
09:44:55  <juliangruber>so for public apps that's bad
09:44:59  <dominictarr>they could also post messages claiming to be by different nodes
09:45:10  <dominictarr>yeah, but they probably can't break something,
09:45:14  <dominictarr>just be annoying
09:45:20  <juliangruber>for team apps it should be fine
09:45:24  <juliangruber>ok
09:45:36  <dominictarr>BUT, you can avoid that with signatures on each message
09:45:56  <dominictarr>and give each message a pointer to the previous message
09:46:10  <juliangruber>is that what scuttlebutt/security does?
09:46:18  <dominictarr>yeah
09:46:27  <dominictarr>Oh, it doesn't have the pointer
09:46:45  <dominictarr>this is the level of security I'm planning for cyphernet
09:46:49  <juliangruber>shouldn't all scuttlebutts do that by default then?
09:46:52  <juliangruber>sweet
09:47:26  <dominictarr>well, I don't think that most people are using it in situations where it'd be a problem
09:47:31  <dominictarr>and it's more overhead
09:47:42  <dominictarr>you could just do auth on the server
09:48:16  <juliangruber>ok
09:48:27  <juliangruber>if secure-peer worked in the browser that'd be great too
09:48:38  <juliangruber>so scuttlebutt wouldn't even have to do that
09:50:46  <dominictarr>well, someone could still mess with the client code
09:50:51  <dominictarr>and send invalid messages
09:51:07  <dominictarr>but the question, is what do they stand to gain?
09:51:42  <dominictarr>merkle trees don't have this weakness, by the way
09:52:17  <juliangruber>ok
09:52:25  <juliangruber>so what libraries would you suggest?
09:52:33  <juliangruber>until cyphernet exists
09:54:13  <juliangruber>dominictarr: https://github.com/juliangruber/subfs
09:55:15  <dominictarr>nice!
09:55:41  <dominictarr>juliangruber: just use crdt. we can easily build a crdt-cyphernet
09:56:12  <dominictarr>juliangruber: subfs looks nice!
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09:56:43  <dominictarr>I was just reading about this https://cpunks.org//pipermail/cypherpunks/2013-October/001242.html
09:57:21  <juliangruber>dominictarr: ok thanks!
09:57:57  <dominictarr>similar in that it's also about making a virtual fs
09:59:34  <juliangruber>oh, didn't see that at first
10:00:08  <juliangruber>dominictarr: if all the modules that have access to the filesystem take a subfs instance instead of a path, they'll all work in the browser too, using level-fs
10:00:40  <dominictarr>juliangruber: yes!
10:00:44  <dominictarr>like bops
10:00:47  <dominictarr>but for fs
10:00:57  <juliangruber>somewhat, yeah!
10:01:11  <juliangruber>like with leveldb, when you pass in a db, it could be level or multilevel
10:01:33  <juliangruber>there we already have that freedom
10:01:38  <juliangruber>thanks to sublevel
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11:00:43  <jez0990>juliangruber, dominictarr: crdt-cyphernet is pretty much what I wrote as part of pith
11:01:14  <juliangruber>jez0990: sweet!
11:01:19  <juliangruber>jez0990: is that opensource?
11:01:27  <jez0990>but I tried writing it on *top* of crdt, which just doesn't fit nicely, so I need to rewrite it as it's own thing
11:01:42  <jez0990>it is, sort of :P
11:02:50  <jez0990>juliangruber: I'll send you a link in a minute
11:07:48  <jez0990>juliangruber: okay, so my stuff is such a mess that it's not worth trying to read :(
11:08:05  <jez0990>butttt, I really want to write this nicely because I need it myself
11:08:16  <jez0990>what's your timescale?
11:08:53  <jez0990>I will aim to publish tonight
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11:16:33  <jez0990>juliangruber: I don't understood why dominictarr says the merkle tree is only for handshake (/comparison), in my thing I use the hash as the id and include the subtree hash id's inside the state
11:17:01  <jez0990>why keep regenerating the merkle tree when you can just persist it with the data...
11:17:34  <jez0990>also it completely prevents cycles in the graph of the data
11:34:50  <juliangruber>jez0990: there's no timescale :D
11:35:29  <juliangruber>merkle trees are so cheap to regenerate
11:38:57  <jez0990>but you still need pointers between your datas
11:39:24  <jez0990>so you'd use uuids as id's?
11:39:34  <jez0990>*data
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11:51:20  <jez0990>juliangruber: okay, crdt-merkle is live on npm & github
11:51:29  <jez0990>https://github.com/jez0990/crdt-merkle
11:52:14  <jez0990>full of commented out features, such as: revs, tags, signals ;)
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11:56:45  <juliangruber>jez0990: sweet! am looking at it
11:57:20  <juliangruber>i'll wait for docs :P
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13:50:30  <jez0990>dominictarr: crdt needs to be more modular - thoughts?
13:51:00  <dominictarr>sure, it was the first thing like that I wrote
13:51:04  <dominictarr>look at r-array
13:51:10  <dominictarr>for the simplest part pulled out
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13:54:29  <jez0990>ah, yes I see what you mean
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14:03:21  <dominictarr>jez0990: are you trying to create some sort of tree based on crdt?
14:03:38  <dominictarr>it might be better to start something tree-oriented from scratch
14:04:00  <jez0990>dominictarr: that's what I've been doing since like, Febuary :)
14:04:18  <dominictarr>jez0990: but you havn't published it
14:04:28  <jez0990>you may remember I had that crdt-monotonic-dag thing
14:05:18  <jez0990>well that is pretty much the same code as in the crdt-merkle, mentioned above
14:05:21  <dominictarr>this https://github.com/jez0990/crdt-monotonic-dag ?
14:06:25  <jez0990>dominictarr: that's right
14:06:36  <dominictarr>404
14:07:36  <dominictarr>what is this stuff https://github.com/jez0990/crdt-merkle/blob/master/index.js#L190-L241 ?
14:08:20  <jez0990>dominictarr: try again, I've unhidden it
14:09:24  <dominictarr>jez0990: you should publish it too
14:09:26  <jez0990>dominictarr: that section is the bit of magic that enables pith to 'observe' the functional dependencies
14:10:05  <jez0990>but this module is not pith, so I commented it out, for now
14:10:30  <dominictarr>jez0990: yeah, that should live in a different place
14:10:30  <jez0990>I built this all on top of crdt because I was afraid to build on top of scuttlebutt directly, but in hindsight this has set me back
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14:14:28  <dominictarr>jez0990: I've never regretted starting over with a clean slate
14:14:38  <dominictarr>normally, I regretted not doing it sooner
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14:15:52  <jez0990>dominictarr: it's true, thanks for the encouragement
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15:03:29  <Domenic_>thlorenz: ping
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15:49:55  <mbalho>jez0990: whoa cool that is an exciting project! (crdt-merkle)
15:51:17  <jez0990>mbalho: aha, cheers, I don't think I ever showed you my demo at nodeconf - I'll make sure I do at mozfest (or sooner?)!
15:52:36  <mbalho>jez0990: im in pdx for realtimeconf then heading to london. are you based in london?
15:53:22  <jez0990>mbalho: I'm actually in london right now, but yeah I leave pretty damn close
15:53:33  <jez0990>let me know when you're around, I'll come hang
15:55:20  <mbalho>jez0990: i get to london on the 24th at 11am, i'm there for a while
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16:24:29  <grncdr>so this might not be the appropriate place to ask, but can somebody recommend a good place to work/drink coffee in or around Oakland?
16:25:51  <jesusabdullah>grncdr: here's a good place, also try #nerdtracker
16:26:10  <jesusabdullah>grncdr: there's a place south of downtown that's pretty cool
16:26:52  <jesusabdullah>grncdr: urban blend on 4th/bdwy
16:27:17  <jesusabdullah>grncdr: modern coffee has good coffee, I like urban's space more though
16:27:35  <grncdr>cool thanks
16:27:48  <jesusabdullah>grncdr: there's a hole-in-the-wall down 40th called subrosa, that's really good too
16:29:11  <jesusabdullah>grncdr: it's a bit out of the way but cafe strada in berkeley's open late
16:29:43  <jesusabdullah>grncdr: I'm sure people still local know of a few more good ones, substack really likes the work-in-a-coffee-place thing
16:30:06  <substack>grncdr: sweet bar, farleys, awaken
16:30:12  <jesusabdullah>grncdr: oh, and I've heard things about gaylord's too
16:30:20  <substack>also swing by sudoroom for a hacking place
16:30:32  <jesusabdullah>substack: what's that one near lake merritt we tried that one time? the one that was closed the one friggin' time I agreed to bike there?
16:30:49  <grncdr>substack: yeah I looked at the sudoroom page and I wasn't sure if it was kosher to just drop in whenever
16:31:22  <substack>grncdr: it is but there's more likely to be people there later in the day
16:31:30  <grncdr>gotcha
16:31:59  <grncdr>so, I don't want to be controversial, but does downtown SF kind of suck?
16:32:05  <substack>yes
16:32:11  <grncdr>oh thank god
16:32:20  <grncdr>I wasn't sure if it was just me
16:32:31  <grncdr>I don't really do big cities all that often
16:32:33  <substack>and it closes up at 6pm sharp
16:33:10  <grncdr>I'm hoping that Oakland is a little more my (and my partners) speed
16:33:20  <grncdr>it's been a grumpy few days ;)
16:34:14  <substack>do you have a bike?
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16:38:05  <grncdr>substack: yes
16:39:00  <grncdr>I don't know for sure if I'll be bringing it
16:40:00  <jesusabdullah>grncdr: your partner? I'm imagining the robin to your batman
16:40:05  <jesusabdullah>grncdr: or is it the batman to your robin?
16:41:54  <grncdr>hah I don't know
16:42:19  <grncdr>not sure if she's still my wife after the last few days
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16:43:03  <grncdr>she's been pretty bummed about SF in general
16:44:25  <jesusabdullah>awww
16:44:27  <jesusabdullah>that's too bad grncdr
16:44:36  <jesusabdullah>I'm sure she'll still be your wife
16:44:41  <jesusabdullah>you just gotta get outta sanfer shitsco
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16:45:53  <grncdr>that's the plan for today
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16:50:01  <thlorenz>Domenic_: pong
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17:05:54  <st_luke>robertkowalski: what branch is passing for you?
17:05:57  <st_luke>master does not pass for me
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17:21:16  <st_luke>Domenic_: have we ever thought about using mocks
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17:23:33  <st_luke>dominictarr: im deleting goatdb
17:23:47  <dominictarr>st_luke: NONOONESESOEOS!
17:23:50  <dominictarr>you can't!
17:23:59  <st_luke>unless someone wants it
17:24:00  <st_luke>im deleting it
17:24:02  <dominictarr>okay. you can if you want
17:24:29  <dominictarr>or transfer it to one of the pull requesters
17:24:32  <dominictarr>or rvagg
17:24:41  <dominictarr>he hasn't owned it yet
17:24:43  <st_luke>its gone
17:24:46  <st_luke>too late
17:24:55  <dominictarr>killjoy
17:25:35  * thlorenzis selling all his goats
17:26:06  <dominictarr>thlorenz: just wait for goatOS
17:26:37  <dominictarr>it incorporates all the worst ideas from goatDB and then adds a bunch more worse ones
17:26:38  <thlorenz>dominictarr: shoot sold 'em all now - had no place to store them
17:26:52  <thlorenz>sounds very useful
17:27:06  <AvianFlu>there's only one real question
17:27:15  <AvianFlu>WHICH ONE OF YOU IS GOING TO MAKE THE GOAT_JS TWITTER ACCOUNT
17:27:16  <LOUDBOT>/* YOU ARE NOT EXPECTED TO UNDERSTAND THIS */
17:27:20  <dominictarr>it's based on the design principle that "everything is a goat"
17:27:36  <dominictarr>no flies, file systems, devices, networks, sockets
17:27:41  <thlorenz>dominictarr: ah, kinda like Plan 9 for rural areas?
17:27:43  <dominictarr>just goats goats and more goats
17:27:48  <dominictarr>thlorenz: exactly
17:27:55  <st_luke>this just in sunnyvale is stupid
17:27:56  <thlorenz>cool, I'm in
17:29:33  <thlorenz>dominictarr: although I'd expect some flies to be around the goats
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17:59:04  <isaacs>what's goatdb?
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18:14:16  <st_luke>a readme repo people kept transferring to my github account
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18:25:33  <defunctzombie>substack: does testling have the server stuff deployed yet?
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19:17:21  <AvianFlu>LOLOL http://ikeaordeath.com/
19:18:28  * ednapiranhajoined
19:19:23  <yorick>hah 16/20
19:23:05  <AvianFlu>lol I was only 7/20
19:23:12  <AvianFlu>hey jesusabdullah take that test lol ^^
19:23:37  <grncdr>mbalho: pretty sure you just walked in to awaken?
19:24:18  <grncdr>unless long blonde hair and giant red beards are a common combination in Oakland...
19:28:48  <thlorenz>grncdr: I think it's pretty common since it's *Oak*land -- here is an Oak Ridge Boy: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.billboard.com/files/styles/promo_650/public/stylus/1307039-william-lee-golden-oak-ridge-boys-617.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/the-615/465119/an-oak-ridge-boy-known-for-his-beard-turns-to-painting&h=409&w=617&sz=29&tbnid=N1Ok6thyFr9cdM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=136&zoom=1&usg=__lhSAsKo
19:28:48  <thlorenz>v4TR7AiTE0mlE7cJh6Es=&docid=rWU9S0SS9dAgbM&sa=X&ei=w_9WUr2pMK-o4AP9g4Bg&ved=0CC4Q9QEwAA
19:29:24  <thlorenz>grncdr: sorry, better link: http://www.billboard.com/files/styles/promo_650/public/stylus/1307039-william-lee-golden-oak-ridge-boys-617.jpg
19:34:15  <grncdr>good point
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19:55:25  <st_luke>robertkowalski: what's the output if you run test/tap/publish-config.js directly?
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20:11:10  <grncdr>does anybody happen to know if there's open wifi at the berkeley library?
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20:13:36  <grncdr>uc berkeley that is
20:14:04  <grncdr>nm, finally found the faq
20:14:31  <mbalho>i visited berkeley campus and had to have a student login, library might be different
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20:30:47  <jesusabdullah>AvianFlu: I'll tryyy!
20:30:56  <jesusabdullah>AvianFlu: I think the site's getting hammered
20:31:39  <jesusabdullah>yeah, the system's down yo
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20:42:49  <AvianFlu>THE SYSTEM
20:42:50  <LOUDBOT>IT IS RUMORED THAT BUU, BUUBOT, AND UR MOM
20:42:51  <AvianFlu>IS DOWN
20:42:51  <LOUDBOT>I DON'T NEED A TUNE UP. I NEED A TUNE DOWN
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21:01:08  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) pocmarketing@... successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
21:01:09  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
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21:06:34  <juliangruber>if a module exists to update a file, should this module take a path and do the IO or should it be "pure" and require the consumer to do the fs.writeFileSync(path, moduleName(fs.readFileSync(path))) dance?
21:06:37  * tilgoviquit (Remote host closed the connection)
21:07:00  <juliangruber>or should it also expose a helper method to do the IO thing
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21:08:39  <grncdr>juliangruber: when you say "update a file"
21:09:11  <grncdr>is it a streamable transformation? or is it 99% of the time going to be replaceing the file in place?
21:09:12  <juliangruber>it takes a file's content as input and outputs content that should be written to the same file
21:09:28  <juliangruber>in this case, it updates appcache manifests
21:09:32  <juliangruber>so small files
21:10:03  <grncdr>I'd go with helper
21:10:17  <juliangruber>but should it be sync or async? in my case i want it sync
21:10:22  <grncdr>async
21:10:26  <juliangruber>or
21:10:27  <grncdr>with a .sync helper
21:10:31  <juliangruber>ok
21:10:37  <juliangruber>i'll keep it pure
21:10:42  <juliangruber>less to argument about
21:11:07  <grncdr>require('app-cache-update')(path, callback) or require('app-cache-update').sync(path)
21:11:28  <grncdr>to be honest, I'd just leave the writing of the file to the caller
21:11:42  <juliangruber>yeah, what I'm thinking
21:12:43  <grncdr>yeah, that definitely makes the most sense
21:20:52  <grncdr>mbalho: what was the module you were talking about earlier? (integer encoding)
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21:31:05  <mbalho>grncdr: https://github.com/chrisdickinson/varint/pull/2
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23:56:02  <jlord>does anyone have a repo i can look at/learn from on getting data from the github api
23:56:27  <jlord>I wanna get repos and commits from a set of users
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