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02:49:02  <jesusabdullah>substack: opinions on https://github.com/jesusabdullah/browserify-cdn/issues/43#issuecomment-25289284 ?
02:49:17  <jesusabdullah>substack: er, https://github.com/jesusabdullah/browserify-cdn/issues/43#issuecomment-25289271
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12:29:51  <dominictarr>just learnt that my uncle recently travelled OVERLAND into north korea (which, like never happens)
12:29:52  <dominictarr>http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-30/an-new-zealand-motorcyclists-ride-across-dmz-in-rare-north-sout/4923918?section=australianetworknews
12:31:06  <dominictarr>I now have an uncle from both my mothers and father's side who have been to North Korea.
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13:32:35  <substack>dominictarr: awesome!
13:32:45  <substack>when do you land in lx?
13:33:46  <dominictarr>substack: tuesday
13:34:11  <substack>jesusabdullah: browserify can already do that!
13:34:26  <substack>dominictarr: rad
13:35:03  <dominictarr>substack: so, I gave a talk on thursday, and some one asked about 'how to build apps with browserify'
13:35:14  <dominictarr>so I inserted a browserify section into my talk...
13:35:38  <dominictarr>browserify client.js --debug | indexhtmlify > index.html
13:35:51  <dominictarr>cos like, thats it!
13:36:22  <dominictarr>but then, I realized, what he wanted to know, how to build a _whole application_
13:36:34  <dominictarr>like, the stuff a framework just does
13:36:57  <dominictarr>we need a thing for "node style frontend"
13:37:08  <dominictarr>maybe a workshopper?
13:37:37  <substack>I was already thinking about this.
13:37:48  <substack>but the thing about "whole application"
13:37:57  <substack>is that you don't build a whole application
13:38:08  <substack>you just start with the tiniest possible thing and incrementally work your way up
13:38:41  <substack>jesusabdullah: oh wow, peterhunt is at instagram/facebook
13:38:50  <substack>right, they're using react for a re-architecture of it
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13:39:00  <substack>and react uses browserify
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14:15:17  <substack>dominictarr: I just found a great hacking cafe
14:15:29  <dominictarr>sweet
14:15:43  <substack>wifi, not busy, coffee etc
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14:16:32  <dominictarr>substack: I think a large part of the front end problem is we still need a simple thing that enables the modularity
14:16:46  <dominictarr>like sublevel in levelup
14:17:07  <dominictarr>a way that you can create independent parts of a ui that do not interfeer
14:17:24  <substack>you can make modules
14:17:27  <dominictarr>I'm thinking this is probably layouts
14:17:42  <substack>and use transforms to get brfs or whatever to load the static assets
14:17:55  <substack>and then insert those into your bundle so the interface is just pure js
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14:18:37  <mbalho>are there any approaches to bundling scoped css with UI widgets that people are happy with?
14:19:04  <substack>mbalho: there are plenty of adequate solutions I think
14:19:11  <substack>it's just not something you need to do very much
14:19:36  <substack>the shadow dom apis will make it easier to scope the css
14:19:38  <mbalho>substack: are you umplyiing that css is better when theres a bigger global stylesheet?
14:20:27  <substack>mbalho: it doesn't seem to be a very big issue because style and design are not as inherently modular as code
14:23:39  <mbalho>so say i was writing a checkbox widget, i would want the template as an html file, the style as a css file and the behavior as a js file, but also i would want a JS API for instantiating, which would use the html template, but at what point would the styles get applied and how?
14:25:33  <mbalho>simplest way would just be to append a new <style> tag with the css on the page, and not worry about scoping
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14:34:52  <substack>mbalho: why are you writing a checkbox widget?
14:35:56  <mbalho>substack: because i have checkbox requirements not fulfilled by the built in checkbox element and want to use a package manager to distribute it
14:43:01  <dominictarr>mbalho: substack html/css are just not universal enough to make good modules.
14:43:39  <dominictarr>you need a truer abstraction
14:43:55  <dominictarr>html does typesetting okay
14:44:05  <substack>mbalho: you can just use javascript
14:44:23  <dominictarr>but it doesn't do layouts very well at all
14:44:24  <substack>do you really need html templates for a checkbox?
14:44:46  <substack>the point of modules is that you write them and it doesn't matter if they're hacky or pleasant so long as they don't leak
14:44:55  <substack>it doesn't matter as much if modules are pretty or not
14:45:19  <substack>it matters much more if they're reusable and don't leak their internals
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15:25:39  <mikolalysenko>mbalho: a bit late to the discussion here, but couldn't you apply the style to the widget programmatically?
15:25:57  <mikolalysenko>ie set all the styles directly using blahblah.style.whatever?
15:26:41  <mikolalysenko>this would work for C-style widgets that you instantiate programmatically
15:26:56  <mikolalysenko>but maybe not the best solution if you want to allow users to apply custom styles
15:27:23  <mikolalysenko>also accessibility could be an issue and your widgets wouldn't be searchable/indexable...
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15:52:03  <leo_33>in your opinion can someone who is morbidly obese find a partner?
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16:01:55  <gildean>if they can fit through the door, maybe
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17:17:40  <mbalho>substack: i really do prefer html templates for widgets, yes
17:18:31  <mbalho>mikolalysenko: its possible to use the JS API for creating elements and setting styles but its really long winded and that workflow is difficult to use with chrome devtools
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17:20:01  <mikolalysenko>mbalho: also it prevents users from customizing with css stuff
17:20:27  <mikolalysenko>mbalho: but it is modular in the sense that all the details for the widget are totally self-contained
17:20:38  <mbalho>mikolalysenko: agreed, that is a nice property
17:20:47  <mikolalysenko>you could maybe create some kind of template language to help generating js like that
17:20:54  <mikolalysenko>kind of like qt's widget builder stuff
17:21:22  <mbalho>mikolalysenko: what i was trying to get at by bringing this up earlier was to figure out if there were any nice tools that people enjoyed using for using html, css and JS together to make widgets
17:21:44  <mikolalysenko>mbalho: agreed.
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17:22:33  <mbalho>mikolalysenko: maybe a browserify transform that reads main.css in a repo, then uses insert-css to put it into the page when the widget gets loaded
17:24:48  <mikolalysenko>how does insert-css work?
17:24:50  <mbalho>mikolalysenko: also maybe a convention where widgets expose an appendTo() method that 'renders' them inside a container (defaults to document.body)
17:24:59  <mbalho>mikolalysenko: https://npmjs.org/package/insert-css
17:25:17  <mikolalysenko>ah, I see
17:25:23  <mikolalysenko>just sticks a style tag in the document
17:26:00  <mbalho>i think you'd want to keep an index of all the style tags you've inserted so you can remove them later too
17:26:16  <mikolalysenko>yeah... and you could hit name conflicts if you aren't careful...
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17:26:45  <mbalho>well thats part of CSS that you can't easily avoid
17:26:47  <mikolalysenko>though if you pick sufficiently obscure names for internal css classes it shouldn't be an issue
17:27:35  <mbalho>yea or you can do it programatically like https://github.com/substack/yarnify but then you have UUIDs everywhere
17:28:00  <mbalho>though maybe you could transform the widget stylesheet so they get prefixed with the module name or something
17:28:04  * shamajoined
17:28:26  <mikolalysenko>also what happens if you have two versions of the same widget?
17:28:38  <mikolalysenko>I guess uuid solves that, but what a mess
17:29:06  <mbalho>the style tag insertion should only happen the first time you load a module
17:30:13  <mbalho>i recognize that css/html have no "closures" but i don't really care, i just wanna have widgets bundle their css + html on npm
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17:34:04  <mikolalysenko>mbalho: yeah, it's a reasonable thing to do
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17:59:10  <substack>https://github.com/substack/lxjs-2013-slides
17:59:40  <mbalho>lol
18:00:20  <substack>the terminals work inline in the presentation
18:00:29  <mbalho>substack: that cyberpunk wizard is awesome
18:01:24  <mbalho>substack: also excellent use of 'sweet as'
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18:04:01  * substack&
18:04:01  <LOUDBOT>I THINK SOMETHING IS WRONG HERE
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18:04:08  <guybrush>substack: pretty awesome! also you can add glsl at https://github.com/substack/lxjs-2013-slides#widening-the-modularity-tent
18:04:24  <guybrush>e.g. https://github.com/hughsk/glsl-point-light
18:04:39  <mbalho>does glsl have #include ?
18:04:50  <mbalho>(in webgl)
18:05:36  <guybrush>not native i think, but chrisdickinson made https://github.com/chrisdickinson/glslify
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18:48:30  <jesusabdullah>anoemi: !!
18:48:37  <jesusabdullah>anoemi: hello!
18:49:20  <mbalho>ANOEMI IN THE HOUSE
18:49:21  <LOUDBOT>DO YOU WANT TO TALK LOUD TO ME BABY?
18:49:28  <mbalho>LOUDBOT: NO
18:49:28  <LOUDBOT>mbalho: YES I THINK IT ANNOUNCES RELOADING BUT IT'S USEFUL INFORMATION AND YOU GET USED TO IT
18:49:45  <jesusabdullah>haha
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18:54:58  <anoemi>OH MAH GOD HAI!
18:54:59  <LOUDBOT>HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT I SUCK COCKS
18:55:03  <anoemi>lol
18:55:28  <AvianFlu>LOUDBOT: whosaid
18:55:28  <LOUDBOT>apeiron in #welcome on 71
18:55:41  <AvianFlu>LOUDBOT: THAT WAS LESS EXCITING THAN I HAD PREVIOUSLY HOPED
18:55:41  <LOUDBOT>AvianFlu: THE OCEAN IS COMING
18:55:42  <mbalho>also bash.org 10 years ago
18:55:45  <anoemi>jesusabdullah: what's up dawg?
19:01:04  <jesusabdullah>uhhh
19:01:11  <jesusabdullah>would you believe I'm still waking up?
19:01:13  <jesusabdullah>XD
19:01:18  <jesusabdullah>pretty groggy right now
19:01:32  <anoemi>wild night?
19:01:46  <jesusabdullah>nahh
19:01:50  <jesusabdullah>I just don't sleep good
19:03:43  <AvianFlu>HE'S LYING IT WAS AN ALL NIGHT PARTY WITH CATNIP AND HOOKERS (IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER)
19:03:44  <LOUDBOT>YOU HAVE A CAPS LOCK INFECTION.
19:04:02  <anoemi>haha
19:04:50  <jesusabdullah>nahh that was thursday
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19:05:07  <jesusabdullah>friday I hunted race conditions in an angular app
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19:07:31  <anoemi>which is like kinda the same
19:07:50  <jesusabdullah>well
19:08:00  <jesusabdullah>it's enough to make you WANT to blow off steam with an all night party
19:08:19  <jesusabdullah>angular's gnar, I say
19:10:19  <AvianFlu>ANGUGNAR
19:11:16  <jesusabdullah>obtuse? apropos.
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19:13:03  <anoemi>i haven't messed with angular but i'll take your word for it
19:13:24  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: http://sourceforge.net/p/chirpy/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/chirpy/ opan saurce quote db a la bash.org
19:14:33  <jesusabdullah>someday, someone's going to find the right reaction gif for angular
19:14:39  <jesusabdullah>that will be a day worth celebrating
19:16:05  <anoemi>are you familiar with http://giphy.com/ ?
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19:17:06  <jesusabdullah>:o no!
19:17:46  <jesusabdullah>very cool
19:18:01  <anoemi>yea, might help
19:18:17  <anoemi>AvianFlu works in the same office with those guys
19:19:07  <jesusabdullah>oh word
19:19:27  <jesusabdullah>my office's neighbors are not so interesting
19:19:53  <jesusabdullah>:(
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20:00:07  <jesusabdullah>my laundry didn't dry :(
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20:42:27  <substack>it rained all day in lisbon
20:42:31  <substack>but it was fun hiking around
20:42:36  <substack>also lisbon has a china town
20:45:35  <mbalho>new module, a fast csv parser: https://github.com/maxogden/binary-csv
20:47:20  <chrisdickinson>mbalho: cool, though, why `writeUInt8` here? https://github.com/maxogden/binary-csv/blob/master/index.js#L128
20:48:37  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: i guess i can just do val[y] = buf[i] now that i think about it
20:48:49  <chrisdickinson>(also, it might be faster to allocate a "slab" up front and subarray out of it instead of `bops.create` here: https://github.com/maxogden/binary-csv/blob/master/index.js#L123)
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20:49:03  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: yea i was thinking about that, needed to benchmark
20:49:57  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: my gut was telling me that most cells will be relatively short in length (hundreds of bytes) so the time to initalize all those buffers up front would be more than a double loop
20:50:02  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: but it was just a guess
20:50:15  <chrisdickinson>buffer allocations are actually pretty pricey
20:50:49  <chrisdickinson>at least with uint8array they are -- i should double check that with node's Buffer
20:51:13  <mbalho>yea i was mostly thinking for uint8array since they get zero filled
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21:24:04  <substack>jesusabdullah: https://github.com/jesusabdullah/node-ecstatic/pull/79
21:24:42  <substack>it's the same bug I sent a patch for ages ago, just in a different place
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21:38:07  <jesusabdullah>substack: good deal, I'll try to get that pubbed in a little bit
21:38:11  <jesusabdullah>eating wendy's right now
21:38:17  <jesusabdullah>wendy's: salt is our recipe
21:39:21  <jesusabdullah>"slaughtering process" win
21:44:46  <jesusabdullah>substack: v0.4.10 \o/
21:45:40  <substack>hooray
21:53:01  <jesusabdullah>substack: https://github.com/jesusabdullah/node-ecstatic/issues/78
21:53:17  <jesusabdullah>substack: I think getting a bugfix with tests cancels out getting a bad feature request
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22:03:50  <substack>I get bad feature requests all the time
22:04:42  <substack>jesusabdullah: does ecstatic do ranges yet?
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22:12:43  <jesusabdullah>substack: it does not, oldest issue it has by far
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22:15:09  <jesusabdullah>maan I don't wanna work today
22:15:11  <jesusabdullah>or tomorrow
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22:29:02  <thlorenz>so dominictarr substack you know something about a charting thing that moves the panel to the left instead of redrawing the entire thing on each new value?
22:29:31  <thlorenz>kinda like smoothie but w/ lots more features like zooming and being able to scroll back in time
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22:35:13  <substack>thlorenz: a graph lib?
22:35:26  <thlorenz>substack: yes, something I can stream values into
22:35:43  <thlorenz>and it renders a linechart
22:36:05  <substack>nope I don't know any libs
22:36:25  <substack>but you can use <svg> and <polyline>
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22:40:50  <thlorenz>substack: that's what I'm doing except I don't wanna reinvent the wheel, so I'm giving nvd3 a try
22:41:15  <thlorenz>I don't wanna reimplement all the features like zooming, scrolling etc
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22:43:51  <jesusabdullah>uhhh
22:43:58  <jesusabdullah>smoothie charts, thlorenz ?
22:44:09  <thlorenz>jesusabdullah: not enough features :(
22:44:34  <jesusabdullah>beyond that, charting in js kinda sucks, best you can do is to find something that abstracts slightly over something else, like fabric.js or raphael or d3
22:44:42  <jesusabdullah>and they all kinda suck in their own way
22:44:55  <thlorenz>actually this realtime update sample in nvd3 repo looks promising: nvd3/test/realTimeChartTest.html
22:45:13  <thlorenz>running this on my machine and it looks good
22:45:26  <thlorenz>it's basically streaming
22:46:17  <thlorenz>just gotta wrap it in a Writable API and done :) https://github.com/novus/nvd3/blob/master/test/realTimeChartTest.html#L78-L93
22:47:31  <substack>cool!
22:48:21  <jesusabdullah>my favorite plotting library is in python :(
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22:56:05  <thlorenz>jesusabdullah: yeah those python people are plotting lots of things and they aren't very sensitive (except to white space)
22:56:41  <thlorenz>so simply replacing historicalBarChart with lineChart in that example worked, going with nvd3 :)
23:00:38  <jesusabdullah>sensitive?
23:00:54  <jesusabdullah>I will admit that matplotlib's generally used for static images
23:01:03  <jesusabdullah>though it *can* be wired up for dynamicity
23:05:20  <jesusabdullah>imo no scatterplots is a deal breaker
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23:12:03  <thlorenz>jesusabdullah: I was joking, anyways seems only historicalBarChart looks good with nvd3 for streaming, plots and lines jump around too much
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23:17:09  <jcrugzz>thlorenz: so nvd3 doesnt redraw the entire thing each time? ive wanted something to create nice line graphs from a stream of time series data
23:18:38  <jesusabdullah>thlorenz: another good one is ggplot2 for R
23:21:34  <thlorenz>jcrugzz: looks like it doesn't, but only works for historical graphs
23:21:45  <thlorenz>and at this point there is only a historical bar chart
23:22:01  <thlorenz>for other chart types it jumps around a lot at some point
23:22:44  <jcrugzz>damn
23:23:27  <thlorenz>jcrugzz: you could look into smoothie charts
23:23:49  <thlorenz>it has no zooming feature however, so your data just streams through and is gone
23:24:29  <thlorenz>jesusabdullah: ggplot2 looks nice, but is based on raphael - already using d3, wanted to limit the loc I pull in
23:25:35  <thlorenz>jcrugzz: also just found this: http://bost.ocks.org/mike/path/
23:25:39  <thlorenz>looks interesting
23:26:25  <jcrugzz>thlorenz: oh nice
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23:35:09  <jesusabdullah>thlorenz: no, ggplot2 is written in R not javascript
23:35:28  <jesusabdullah>thlorenz: about as useless to you as matplotlib
23:35:39  <jesusabdullah>thlorenz: just really well done is all
23:36:03  <thlorenz>jesusabdullah: well that sucks - btw giving smoothie a try - running out of time here :)
23:37:54  <jesusabdullah>yeah, smoothie is dirt simple
23:38:04  <jesusabdullah>does exactly one thing, but does that one thing reasonably well
23:40:51  <thlorenz>jesusabdullah: ok smoothie it is, got it working immediately and pushing a value per 50ms and it doesn't seem to mind
23:41:06  <thlorenz>even val/ 5ms worked, started looking like a wave file
23:41:41  <thlorenz>jesusabdullah: do you know the guy behind smoothie? maybe we could add scrolling, zooming to it?
23:42:04  <jesusabdullah>I don't
23:42:43  <thlorenz>ok, well for now it's gonna be smothie, maybe I'll store the data somewhere else additionally so you could review it via a non-streaming chart later
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23:58:45  <jcrugzz>thlorenz: oh awesome
23:59:46  <jcrugzz>thlorenz: stream it into leveldb and get a livestream that you send to the client into smoothie :)