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01:38:09  <kumavis>tuna of the c?
01:38:29  <kumavis>i also get now how that doesnt work
01:38:43  <kumavis>time for a brain break
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02:46:43  <mikolalysenko>so I've been thinking a bit about how binary dependencies and node lately and am trying to figure out a good solution
02:47:06  <mikolalysenko>for example, say I have a library that is open source and has a lot of dependencies. what is the best way I could distribute a nodejs binding for it?
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02:48:44  <mikolalysenko>also is there any good documentation out there for node-gyp/whatever is the current preferred way to build native code?
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02:56:49  <defunctzombie>how do you guys deal with user's who keep your sites open in tabs forever
02:56:58  <defunctzombie>if you want to ship code updates, etc
02:57:21  <ik>All browsers have solved that as a matter of design
02:57:34  <ik>Since they consume all system memory w/in 1-5 days
02:57:41  <mikolalysenko>defunctzombie: that's an interesting question
02:57:59  <defunctzombie>ik: I dunno, I find that I keep browsers open longer than that
02:58:14  <mikolalysenko>ik: I don't know when I last closed my browser...
02:58:28  <defunctzombie>ik: also doesn't answer the question :p
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03:03:13  <chapel> defunctzombie: add a piece of code that tells the user there is an update and for them to refresh the page
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03:03:19  <chapel>with a link of course
03:03:29  <defunctzombie>hm
03:03:30  <defunctzombie>interesting
03:03:34  <chapel>trello does that, a kind of graceful way of updating
03:03:46  <defunctzombie>what if the update is not really visible?
03:03:53  <defunctzombie>I feel like it is easier to auto refresh the page?
03:04:01  <chapel>well, depends
03:04:17  <chapel>if a refresh could interrupt the users usage of your site, then I'd say no
03:04:22  <chapel>people would be upset
03:04:42  <defunctzombie>yea
03:04:48  <defunctzombie>I currently tried to use the 'idle' thing
03:04:49  <chapel>at least tell them you are updating, but don't let them continue using the site
03:04:54  <defunctzombie>which waits for you to go idle
03:04:59  <defunctzombie>but I am not positive that is working
03:05:04  <chapel>so its a forced refresh, but they choose when
03:05:04  <shama>new Float64Array(9999999999999)... that should make them close their browser
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03:05:43  <chapel>ultimately it depends on if they need the new code immediately
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06:24:43  <kumavis>jesusabdullah https://gist.github.com/kumavis/7be352f3b61cc0846285
06:25:04  <kumavis>its FLAGRANT
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09:17:52  <mbalho>substack: hey you should do a requirebin.com demo of bashful running in some js terminal
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10:04:54  <dominictarr>this is impressive http://contextis.co.uk/files/Browser_Timing_Attacks.pdf
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10:41:30  <dominictarr>mcollina_: hey, have you done any prolog?
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10:51:39  <djcoin>dominictarr: have you ?
10:51:53  <dominictarr>djcoin: just looking into it now
10:52:03  <dominictarr>it feels very weird - inside out -
10:52:35  <dominictarr>instead of telling it how to calculate the anwser
10:52:40  <djcoin>I have done one course at college, my teacher was a russian that made himself barely understandable
10:52:54  <djcoin>Yeah, this is a logic system, you specify fact and it does the rest
10:52:54  <dominictarr>haha
10:53:09  <djcoin>Have you seen any clojure example ?
10:53:18  <djcoin>Because clojure has clojure.logic
10:53:32  <djcoin>And guess what, which clojurescript, it compiles to javascript
10:53:34  <dominictarr>working through the tutorial it looks like it's mainly about traversing trees
10:53:38  <djcoin>so you have a logic system in the browser
10:53:52  <dominictarr>djcoin: yeah, I met a clojurescript dev at web rebels
10:54:05  <djcoin>I wondering about switching to clojure + clojurescript
10:54:13  <dominictarr>and he told me you could implement prolog in lisp, quite easily
10:54:27  <djcoin>There is such a book
10:54:39  <dominictarr>I think it might be good for querying leveldb
10:54:50  <dominictarr>given a tree/graph schema
10:54:51  <djcoin>That's what datomic does
10:54:58  <djcoin>(never used it)
10:54:58  <dominictarr>yeah, with datalog
10:55:12  <djcoin>Yeah, it would be pure awesomeness :)
10:55:23  <dominictarr>datalog looks pretty close to what mcollina_ did with levelgraph
10:55:26  <djcoin>dominictarr: never afraid of digging in new topic are you ? :)
10:56:15  <dominictarr>yes, I have the bad habit of depth first searching
10:56:56  <djcoin>That's great
10:57:08  <dominictarr>there is another usecase I have in mind also
10:57:19  <dominictarr>for model based testing
10:57:29  <dominictarr>of async automatam
10:57:39  <dominictarr>async automata
10:59:08  <djcoin>Not sure I can follow you there :)
10:59:51  <dominictarr>it's related to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_methods
11:00:02  <djcoin>Nooo not Z
11:00:28  <dominictarr>yeah, agree
11:00:29  <djcoin>oh gawd - worst cs nightmare (worse teacher than the russian :) )
11:00:51  <dominictarr>haha, I had an aweful formal methods lecurer too
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11:01:39  <dominictarr>but - the other half of the course on this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-based_testing#From_finite_state_machines
11:01:41  <dominictarr>was very good
11:02:15  <dominictarr>djcoin: then a while back I read this post http://www.zedshaw.com/essays/ragel_state_charts.html
11:02:51  <dominictarr>and realized that Async Systems… like streams, net works, distributed systems etc
11:03:13  <dominictarr>I realized that Async systems are really just parsers
11:03:38  <dominictarr>and you can use the same formal abstractions to model parsers, and async systems
11:04:00  <dominictarr>except that instead of parsing tokens, you parse network events...
11:04:39  <dominictarr>anyway, that make it bit less intimidating...
11:05:02  <dominictarr>because normal developers are pretty comfertable with parsing abstractions...
11:05:11  <dominictarr>like RegExp
11:05:31  <dominictarr>so I wrote this https://github.com/dominictarr/regular-stream
11:06:19  <djcoin>dominictarr: oh i was away, I will take a look
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11:30:15  <substack>mbalho: how do I add html to requirebin?
11:30:28  <substack>clicking "see instructions" doesn't do anything
11:39:03  <dominictarr>hmm, prolog interpreter in js http://ioctl.org/logic/prolog-latest
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13:56:46  <dominictarr>mmckegg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uFu1aGKsw4&list=UUeecKs0KQxT7ejAHkoQ4wUw
13:57:05  <dominictarr>^ pushing midi to the limit
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15:58:25  <jesusabdullah>kumavis: I made a few comments on that gist fyi
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16:25:37  <jesusabdullah>so, mocha describes itself as "the fun simple flexible javascript test framework"
16:25:55  <jesusabdullah>which makes me want to describe a test library as "easy breezy beautiful javascript test framework"
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16:44:16  <AvianFlu_>jesusabdullah: nothing will ever top
16:44:19  <AvianFlu_>TESTS OF THE SIERRA MADRE
16:44:19  <LOUDBOT>ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: TCP OVER PIGEON
16:44:29  <AvianFlu_>LOUDBOT: twitlast
16:44:29  <LOUDBOT>http://twitter.com/LOUDBOT/status/365513857868890116 (HighBit/##church-of-loudbot)
16:45:33  <soldair>the mountain mother is not very forgiving makes sense
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17:01:49  <jesusabdullah>AvianFlu: :D :D
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17:05:49  <mbalho>substack: right now its just a JS file, no html editing UI exists. the instructions are already shown by default (the floating box with text in it on the right)
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18:11:08  <mcollina>dominictarr: yeah!
18:11:27  <mcollina>dominictarr: I'm a master of Prolog :)
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18:11:54  <dominictarr>oh execllent!
18:12:04  <dominictarr>I've been working through some tutorials
18:12:08  <dominictarr>fucking weird
18:12:12  <dominictarr>brain stretching
18:12:20  <dominictarr>:)
18:12:49  <mbalho>dominictarr: had an idea
18:12:54  <mbalho>dominictarr: International Module Day
18:13:02  <dominictarr>mbalho: do go on
18:13:08  <mbalho>dominictarr: not language specific
18:13:26  <mbalho>dominictarr: we copy the format of http://opendataday.org/
18:13:46  <mbalho>dominictarr: get people to host module meetups, where they teach people how to write and publish a module
18:13:59  <mbalho>we would of course provide the workshop materials for a node one
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18:14:22  <mbalho>i think it would be a good reason to a write a module publishing handbook too
18:14:33  <mbalho>that lists all of the community conventions and tools
18:14:50  <mbalho>from things like semver to things like nodei.co
18:15:18  <mikolalysenko>prolog was the last programming language with really new ideas in it
18:15:38  <mikolalysenko>though there have been plenty of innovations sense, but just none as big
18:16:13  <pkrumins>dominictarr: you should read this book called The Reasoned Schemer
18:16:56  <mcollina>Prolog is very fucking weird... and the hardest thing is that your program is very likely NOT to complete :).
18:17:19  <mcollina>My university built a Prolog version in Java, it also works on Android
18:17:48  <mcollina>I'd like to have a Prolog interpreter in Javascript :P
18:18:14  <dominictarr>mcollina: I found one just before
18:18:46  <dominictarr>http://ioctl.org/logic/prolog-latest
18:19:00  <dominictarr>mcollina: am thinking a datalog thing for leveldb
18:19:17  <dominictarr>datalog feels simple enough
18:20:23  <mcollina>That seems something I'd really want to hack on :)
18:21:18  <dominictarr>excellent
18:22:10  <mcollina>:)
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18:24:51  <mcollina>The hard thing is the unification algorithm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_(computer_science)
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18:28:34  <dominictarr>oh no! there is no article!
18:28:50  <dominictarr>oh there it is
18:28:59  <dominictarr>my irc just parsed the url wrong
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18:32:42  <mbalho>dominictarr: what is your initial reaction to moduleday?
18:32:55  <mbalho>haha whered he go
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18:34:52  <mcollina>The actual implementation is easier
18:35:32  <mcollina>Have a look at here: http://apice.unibo.it/xwiki/bin/view/Tuprolog/ the source is kind of bad but readable
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19:55:00  <kanzure>mikolalysenko: so, i was thinking of some sort of state machine for each downloader. here is how zotero currently does it: https://github.com/zotero/translators/blob/master/ScienceDirect.js
19:55:07  <kanzure>mikolalysenko: i would like to theoretically avoid a mess like that.
19:56:21  <kanzure>mikolalysenko: i was wondering if you have any ideas for that
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19:57:13  <kanzure>right now i just have a download method that takes url, options, callback and callback gets a dictionary and pdfstream. except there might be multiple files worth fetching that could be transferred over multiple streams. and each file has other metadata attached. and why would i want to cram everything into a single download() method?
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20:42:26  <hij1nx>new fun module: pipe streams using "pipes" :) `stream1 | stream2 | stream3` via the valueOf operator -- https://github.com/hij1nx/pipechain
20:43:21  <mbalho>lol
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20:50:00  <hij1nx>mbalho: of course ;)
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21:10:17  <juliangruber>substack: you could probably mention level-fs on the bashful readme?
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21:50:12  <kumavis>juliangruber substack what would be the browser replacement for require('child_process').spawn ?
21:50:20  <kumavis>for use with bashful
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21:53:21  <juliangruber>kumavis: require(x) ?
21:53:33  <kumavis>?
21:53:58  <kumavis>uh yes. please solve for x.
21:54:28  <juliangruber>kumavis: child_process.spawn = require
21:54:40  <juliangruber>or rather require('x')()
21:54:45  <juliangruber>so if you do 'cat "foo"'
21:54:56  <juliangruber>it would to require('cat')('foo')
21:54:58  <juliangruber>or something
21:55:15  <kumavis>oh interesting
21:55:20  <juliangruber>there probably needs to be a spec for bashful compatible modules
21:55:31  <juliangruber>stdarg are arguments, like require('cat')('foo')
21:55:46  <juliangruber>stdin is stdin.pipe(require('cat'))
21:55:58  <juliangruber>stdout is require('cat')().stdout, the same for stderr
21:56:30  <juliangruber>and then you can make a wrapper function, so you can wrap any stream in this api. 'error' events would just be written to stderr
21:56:36  <juliangruber>oh, and introduce a convention for exit codes
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21:58:45  <mikolalysenko>kumavis: hmmm, can you walk me through again what the method is doing? if you see a good way to split it up you should probably do it as a rule of thumb
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22:00:55  <kumavis>mikolalysenko mm?
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22:03:48  <mikolalysenko>do you have a github repo I could look at?
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22:07:07  <kumavis>mikolalysenko maybe you mean to be talking to kanzure ?
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22:09:45  <mikolalysenko>err right
22:09:57  <mikolalysenko>I just hit k then tab and it autocmpleted you
22:10:00  <mikolalysenko>sorry about that
22:10:15  <mikolalysenko>kanzure: ^^^ (sorry about that, wrong tab complete)
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22:14:40  <kanzure>mikolalysenko: the method extracts metadata from a page like http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v28/n12/full/nbt.1710.html but also prepares http streams for pdfs and supplementary documents like video/pdf/docx files. but not every user wants all of the pdfs. still, it needs to be something written in a repeatably-testable manner. with mocked http requests and cached html that can be tested against.
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22:27:00  <jesusabdullah>derf
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22:35:40  <mikolalysenko>kanzure: there are two ways I could think of doing it. One is to pass a flag that tells it to not download pdfs, the other is to make two methods. One that just gets metadata and the other that gets metadata+pdfs
22:36:18  <mikolalysenko>kanzure: I kind of lean toward the first since it means there is less surface area in the api
22:36:58  <kumavis>mbalho requirebin injects the code as html in a script tag, which makes it difficult to debug (no callstack)
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22:37:49  <kumavis>thoughts? i'm sure you tried a few things before settling on this method
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23:00:26  <mbalho>kumavis: oh didnt think about that actually
23:00:30  <mbalho>kumavis: im open to suggestions
23:00:54  <kumavis>mbalho well i think theres a few ways of going about it
23:00:57  <mbalho>kumavis: theres no way to get stack traces with script tags? that seems crazy
23:01:23  <kumavis>im not certain thats the problem im running into
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23:01:37  <kumavis>but i am getting hard-to-debug errors
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23:01:44  <kumavis>it could be source map problems
23:04:10  <kumavis>mbalho https://gist.github.com/kumavis/6c5bba624667c50cde3c
23:04:17  <kumavis>yeah i think source map problems actually
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23:04:48  <kumavis>im not actually expecting that code to work, but it illustrates the problem
23:05:25  <mbalho>kumavis: it looks like it isnt saving source maps
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23:06:08  <mbalho>kumavis: e.g. curl -X POST http://wzrd.in/multi -d '{"debug": "true", "dependencies":{"concat-stream":"latest"}}'
23:06:13  <mbalho>kumavis: doesnt seem to have source map output
23:06:47  <mbalho>but http://wzrd.in/debug-bundle/concat-stream@latest does
23:07:18  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: ping!
23:07:40  <emilyrose>synchronized pinging
23:07:40  <mbalho>kumavis: the debug: true in /multi is supposed to turn on source maps but i guess it isnt working
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23:07:48  <mbalho>emilyrose: whoa
23:07:52  <emilyrose>lol
23:08:02  <emilyrose>GET OUT OF MY HEAD, MBALHO
23:08:02  <LOUDBOT>RONPAUL DOESN'T KNOW THE TRUTH
23:08:27  <mbalho>emilyrose: that was whoa as in the whoa that keanu reeves said in the matrix, because obviously our sync ping was a glitch in th ematrix
23:08:33  <emilyrose>WHERE'S STONE PHILIPS
23:08:34  <LOUDBOT>MY FACE IS A ~ AND I LIE ABOUT NIGGERS
23:08:39  <emilyrose>oh jesus
23:08:42  <mbalho>LOUDBOT: god damn it loudbot
23:08:42  <LOUDBOT>mbalho: I AM LAUNCHING AN ECOMMERCE PORTAL FOR RANKING UPPERCASE TEXT QUOTES
23:09:01  <emilyrose>someday
23:09:09  <emilyrose>i will load a massive army of bots
23:09:19  <emilyrose>and flood LOUDBOT's samples
23:09:27  <emilyrose>(probably not)
23:09:28  <emilyrose>but still
23:09:36  <emilyrose>someone should
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23:25:00  <jesusabdullah>yo dawgs who wants to read the cascadiajs proposal I'm working on? https://github.com/jesusabdullah/2013.cascadiajs.com/blob/jesusabdullah/why-people-hate-your-framework_jesusabdullah.md
23:25:07  <jesusabdullah>substack: ^^ emilyrose ^^ :) :)
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23:26:47  <chrisdickinson>jesusabdullah: o/
23:26:52  <jesusabdullah>chrisdickinson: you too
23:26:58  <chrisdickinson>this has come up (recently) for me, actually
23:27:04  <jesusabdullah>uhhh, I've been pinged it looks like
23:27:24  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: can you make a github issue on that plz? :)
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23:27:45  <jesusabdullah>Maybe this weekend I'll go on a browserify-cdn hacking spree
23:27:50  <jesusabdullah>I'm getting behind on the issues here
23:27:54  <jesusabdullah>bbiaf pluggin in laptop
23:28:56  <jesusabdullah>k back
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23:31:18  <jesusabdullah>hey AvianFlu do you have a few minutes?
23:31:30  <AvianFlu>yeah what's hood
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23:33:25  <jesusabdullah>actually, uhh
23:33:37  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: kumavis: https://github.com/jesusabdullah/browserify-cdn/issues/36
23:33:43  <mikolalysenko>jesusabdullah: that sounds like a pretty interesting talk
23:33:52  <jesusabdullah>AvianFlu: https://github.com/jesusabdullah/2013.cascadiajs.com/blob/jesusabdullah/why-people-hate-your-framework_jesusabdullah.md plz2b feedbax ?
23:33:56  <jesusabdullah>mikolalysenko: hah, thanks
23:35:14  <AvianFlu>jesusabdullah: lol that's awesome
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23:35:34  <jesusabdullah>AvianFlu: yeah? Cool :D
23:36:04  <jesusabdullah>cool, I'll probably PR it then
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23:37:46  <emilyrose>jesusabdullah,
23:39:37  <jesusabdullah>emilyrose: yes?
23:40:24  <emilyrose>https://twitter.com/nodeconfeu/status/365522113160966144/photo/1
23:40:40  <emilyrose>jesusabdullah, also that looks like a good talk
23:41:17  <jesusabdullah>emilyrose nice! :D
23:41:24  <jesusabdullah>emilyrose: also thank you :3
23:43:35  <mbalho>emilyrose: i like the new viking nexxy
23:43:49  <emilyrose>mbalho, hah thanks me too
23:49:41  <chrisdickinson>jesusabdullah: my co-worker desperately wants to hear that talk
23:49:52  <jesusabdullah>chrisdickinson: awesome, submitting now
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23:57:35  <jesusabdullah>so, that got merged quickly
23:57:40  <jesusabdullah>wondering if Carter has a bot set up
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