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00:27:48  <juliangruber>jesusabdullah mbalho: http://wzrd.in/standalone/reconnect-engine fails, but npm install && browserify works on my machine
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01:05:07  <juliangruber>substack: battleship-search looks cool, what will you use it for?
01:08:04  <substack>juliangruber: not sure yet!
01:08:27  <substack>I'm just collaborating with a mathematician at sudoroom to implement it from some hand-drawn sheets
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01:41:19  <juliangruber>substack: I really need to go check out sudoroom when I make it to oakland some time
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02:50:14  <st_luke>anyone recall the dtrace usage to show the files touched by a command?
02:50:17  <jesusabdullah>juliangruber: I'll try looking in a bit, meeting with client right now
02:50:32  <jesusabdullah>juliangruber: if you make a github issue, I'll definitely not forget
02:50:40  <juliangruber>jesusabdullah: ok, will do!
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03:17:17  <substack>juliangruber: ok there was a bug in battleship-search but it works much better now
03:22:57  <juliangruber>substack: are the test results before finding a max of any worth?
03:23:52  <juliangruber>could that e.g. be used to find closest matches in face databases?
03:24:33  <juliangruber>because that has a lot of dimensions
03:24:59  <substack>yes they are finding the maxima very quickly
03:25:17  <substack>I don't have more than 1 dimension working yet, that part is next.
03:25:48  <juliangruber>ok
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03:32:48  <juliangruber>the fact that the algorithm works efficiently in n dimensions makes it very interesting
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04:08:48  <mbalho>how do i destroy an entire sublevel
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04:10:07  <mbalho>juliangruber: is there an easy way to delete a whole sublevel at once?
04:14:29  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: juliangruber: What happens if you update wzrd.in's browserify to @latest ?
04:14:32  <jesusabdullah>I guess I can do that
04:15:04  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: actually i think i have to, one sec
04:15:12  <jesusabdullah>aha
04:16:29  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: k upgraded
04:16:43  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: first log statement was 'http info undefined - - [Mon, 29 Jul 2013 04:16:25 GMT] "HEAD / HTTP/1.0" 200'
04:17:57  <jesusabdullah>weeeird
04:18:17  <jesusabdullah>how? o_o
04:18:21  <mbalho>Raynos: do you know of a way to hook up a sublevel to https://github.com/Raynos/level-delete-range ?
04:18:25  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: dunno
04:18:28  <jesusabdullah>huh
04:18:30  <jesusabdullah>well
04:18:38  <jesusabdullah>actually that HEAD / might be a clue
04:18:43  <jesusabdullah>if something did a HEAD req against /
04:18:50  <jesusabdullah>maybe there's a logging edge case there
04:19:42  <jesusabdullah>anyways
04:19:59  <jesusabdullah>I plan to get back on the browserify-cdn train once I'm on the other side of the move
04:20:08  <mbalho>its working well so far!
04:21:09  <jesusabdullah>cool cool
04:21:40  <jesusabdullah>juliangruber: max upgraded browserify on the machine, what happens if you make the request now?
04:22:46  <mbalho>browserify-cdn ERR! stderr: Error: module "xmlhttprequest" not found from "/tmp/reconnect-engine113629-9072-7a6pux/node_modules/reconnect-engine/node_modules/engine.io-stream/node_modules/engine.io-client/lib/transports/index.js"
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05:27:44  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: dangit
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05:55:20  <mbalho>ooh https://github.com/alecperkins/btmessage
05:58:44  <st_luke>going on a taco run
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08:38:09  <timoxley>dominictarr: is there a nicer way to set a delimiter for pull-stream output than:
08:38:21  <timoxley>pull.map(function(data) {return data + '\n'}),
08:38:45  <dominictarr>there is if you write it
08:39:16  <timoxley>dominictarr: ok, no worries
08:39:20  <dominictarr>:(
08:39:24  <dominictarr>:)
08:39:28  <dominictarr>I meant!
08:39:52  <timoxley>just thought there might have been some undocumented shortcut or module
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12:25:40  <juliangruber>mbalho: deleteRange(db.sublevel('foo')) with https://github.com/Raynos/level-delete-range
12:26:44  <juliangruber>mbalho: level-delete-range shouldn't care about sublevels
12:27:07  <juliangruber>mbalho: or: db.sublevel('foo').createKeyStream().pipe(db.sublevel('foo').createDeleteStream())
12:27:20  <juliangruber>we just need createDeleteStream :D
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15:43:21  <dominictarr>mikeal: I notice that there are a bunch of node packackages published to debian repo
15:43:32  <dominictarr>debian registry I mean
15:43:40  <mikeal>debian does that on their own
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15:43:44  <mikeal>and it is really stupid
15:44:47  <dominictarr>they are installing it all globally
15:44:49  <dominictarr>!
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15:45:26  <dominictarr>will they even work? there are no package.json ?
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15:53:44  <dominictarr>it installs them all globally, too, so it would be impossible to have more than one version...
15:54:23  <dominictarr>what we NEED is an os level package manager that can handle multiple versions of dependencies...
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16:09:35  <dominictarr>and macports is just about as bad
16:09:35  <dominictarr>https://trac.macports.org/browser/trunk/dports/devel/nodejs/Portfile
16:09:40  <dominictarr>what language is that?
16:09:47  <dominictarr>is it some custom thing?
16:10:59  <dominictarr>describing your packages in bash (or any turing complete lang) is such a bad idea
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17:07:28  <Raynos>juliangruber: correct
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18:12:34  <dominictarr>I am wondering if there is a way to build a non-conflicting package manager right on a typical unix
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18:12:48  <dominictarr>and have it work with bash, and regular commands
18:17:52  <mikeal>really?
18:25:13  <substack>dominictarr: yes
18:25:25  <substack>http://modules.sourceforge.net/
18:25:46  <dominictarr>how does it work? i'm thinking subshells?
18:26:01  <dominictarr>or, manipulating $PATH, basically.
18:26:39  <substack>dominictarr: also I implemented the 1-d version of anthony's battleship search algorithm yesterday https://github.com/substack/battleship-search
18:26:49  <dominictarr>sweet!
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18:27:12  <dominictarr>how does it work, basically?
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18:28:03  <timoxley>dominictarr: I'm getting an empty string at the end of every pull-split stream, is there a reason?
18:28:15  <substack>it bifurcates the search space into subsections and compares the variance slopes at every step as a way to prioritize which area of the landscape is more likely to have peaks
18:28:35  <substack>and it's guaranteed to not get stuck on local maxima
18:28:50  <dominictarr>timoxley: yes, that is what string.split('/n') would do too
18:28:59  <dominictarr>if the string ends in a /n
18:29:40  <dominictarr>substack: guaranteed?
18:30:00  <timoxley>dominictarr: ok I will work around it, thanks.
18:30:04  <dominictarr>but what if it looks at A, and C and they are the same fitness
18:30:18  <dominictarr>but there is a narrow spike B inbetween?
18:30:38  <dominictarr>timoxley: if you use pull.filter right after it, that should work
18:32:01  <timoxley>dominictarr: great, thanks, I still don't get why it pushes an empty string though
18:32:27  <timoxley>oh
18:32:47  <substack>dominictarr: it can still find those
18:32:49  <dominictarr>if you did readFileSync(file).split('/n') there would be an empty string between the last line, and the end of the file
18:33:15  <dominictarr>substack: eventually, you mean?
18:33:28  <substack>yes eventually but it converges quite fast
18:33:46  <substack>like the example on the readme has 3 peaks and it pretty quickly finds the highest peak
18:34:49  <dominictarr>lots of other good stuff on that wiki page...
18:34:49  <dominictarr>http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Anthony_Repetto/Concept_Log#Insect_Farm_Module
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18:49:09  <dominictarr>substack: can modules do version conflicts within a session?
18:50:38  <dominictarr>aha, there is a whitepaper
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19:03:52  <mbalho>i wonder why the tests are so broken here https://github.com/Raynos/level-delete-range#level-delete-range
19:03:56  <mbalho>Raynos: any idea?
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19:33:32  <mbalho>html5 <video> sux
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19:34:02  <mbalho>in chrome at least
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19:34:25  <dominictarr>juliangruber: what are you gonna use diffeHelman for?
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19:46:28  <Raynos>mbalho: tests work locally on node
19:46:45  <Raynos>mbalho: tests look broke on chrome because it uses ileveldb which is old + indexeddb breaks back compat
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19:49:30  <jesusabdullah>why is indexeddb so crappy?
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20:03:09  <daleharvey>heh working on an idb bug now
20:03:12  <daleharvey>http://jsbin.com/acuyor/2/edit
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20:03:56  <daleharvey>if you use pretty much any common extend function, and someone has modified the Array / Object prototype, idb cant clone the object
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20:39:18  <Raynos>jesusabdullah: design by committee
20:39:29  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: substack ping
20:39:43  <Domenic_>substack: accept the PRs on ent? https://github.com/substack/node-ent/pull/9
20:39:56  <thlorenz>I think I just figured out where the pkg.main (cannot read undefined) is coming from
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20:40:54  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: pong
20:40:54  <thlorenz>it's when you don't specify main correclty like I dig here: https://github.com/thlorenz/get-style-property/blob/master/package.json#L5
20:41:04  <thlorenz>main is actually "index.js" -- node/npm figures it out, but browserify doesn't find a main in that case
20:41:07  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: (read above)
20:41:25  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: I personally think relative paths should be required :/
20:41:28  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: ./index.js
20:41:36  <defunctzombie>but we should make it work I guess
20:41:38  <substack>thlorenz: pong
20:41:42  <defunctzombie>just requires an additional fstat
20:41:46  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: maybe that too, but at least now we know where this is coming from
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20:42:42  <defunctzombie>I think that is a resolved issue
20:42:50  <defunctzombie>resolved the module, not resolved as in fixed
20:43:15  <thlorenz>so we should probably put a try catch around https://github.com/substack/node-resolve/blob/master/lib/async.js#L91 substack
20:43:38  <thlorenz>and log what 'x' was, so the user knows what module needs to have its "main" fixed in package.json
20:44:15  <defunctzombie>that or check if file exists
20:44:17  <defunctzombie>and go with that
20:44:34  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: yep, whatever results in a better error message
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20:45:43  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: substack: unless there is a way to find main exactly the same way that node does, so if it works in node it works with browserify (even if main is not correct)
20:48:30  <substack>Domenic_: published
20:49:45  <Domenic_>substack: oh sorry also https://github.com/substack/node-ent/pull/10??
20:52:48  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: substack, so this is confirmed -- fixing the main field in the culprit made the error go away
20:56:05  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: I would say it should work like node does and try to resolve the file locally, I think that is stupid but unless others agree it is ok to require relative starts with ./ then I would favor existing behavior
20:56:39  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: including finding index.js although I set main to 'foo.js'?
20:56:49  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: does node do that?
20:56:53  <thlorenz>yep
20:56:55  <defunctzombie>I bet it does
20:56:59  <defunctzombie>cause it fstats
20:57:00  <defunctzombie>haha
20:57:07  <defunctzombie>that is fucked up
20:57:25  <thlorenz>that's the problem - it works fine until you require it as a dependent via browserify
20:57:42  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: I'd prefer an early fail ;)
20:57:42  <defunctzombie>personally, I would have relative paths be specified with a leading ./
20:57:46  <defunctzombie>yea
20:58:30  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: well we can't change node like that, but we may make browserify adapt to this weird behavior and/or at least give a more meaningful error
21:02:31  <juliangruber>dominictarr: secure-peer
21:02:48  <juliangruber>dominictarr: i want secure streams
21:02:50  <dominictarr>.. in the browser
21:02:53  <juliangruber>dominictarr: yup
21:02:57  <dominictarr>right. cool.
21:03:03  <juliangruber>dominictarr: do you know of another method i could use?
21:03:10  <dominictarr>I'm using your keypair thing
21:03:21  <juliangruber>dominictarr: sweet, but how?
21:03:31  <dominictarr>no, secure-peer is the ssh style, that is what you want.
21:03:56  <dominictarr>I'm working on the same idea as pkp, but for generic data objects.
21:04:06  <dominictarr>for the cyphernet
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21:05:36  <hij1nx>dominictarr: pkp can work for any arbitrary data, not just packages
21:06:18  <dominictarr>well, I was working on this before you pushed pkp
21:06:29  <hij1nx>dominictarr: ah ok
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21:06:57  <dominictarr>but towards the same aim
21:07:16  <mbalho>juliangruber: i have secure websocket binary streams working in browser
21:07:19  <mbalho>juliangruber: doesnt have fallbacks though
21:07:23  <hij1nx>dominictarr: hmm, do you think its worth working on pkp then still?
21:07:31  <juliangruber>mbalho: omg!
21:07:35  <juliangruber>mbalho: how? where?
21:07:47  <hij1nx>dominictarr: sounds like you have a broader solution
21:07:59  <defunctzombie>thlorenz: I would lean towards more meaningful error... substack?
21:08:08  <mbalho>http://blockplot.com/world.html#a378441a5d420286bbd2273828d696a8
21:08:22  <substack>why do people put npmignore and gitignore files in pull requests >_<
21:08:24  <mbalho>juliangruber: that uses multilevel non-binary
21:08:44  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: +1 was thinking the same
21:08:51  <hij1nx>dominictarr: where is it so i can see what it does?
21:08:53  <mbalho>juliangruber: if you're logged in you can read+write otherwise you can onlyr ead
21:09:06  <dominictarr>hij1nx: I have only just started
21:09:08  <mbalho>juliangruber: the only thing i can get to work is require('multilevel'), not require('mutlilevel/msgpack')
21:09:22  <mbalho>juliangruber: also couldnt get level-replicate or level-merkle to work reliably in browser yet
21:09:41  <thlorenz>defunctzombie: as I said: https://github.com/substack/node-resolve/blob/master/lib/async.js#L91 needs to be wrapped in try/catch and 'x' logged out in error message ^^ substack
21:09:44  <hij1nx>dominictarr: looks im almost done with pkp
21:09:47  <dominictarr>oh, now I remember, I only got to messing around, without actually writing a module
21:09:47  <mbalho>juliangruber: but the authenticated streams part is pretty easy https://github.com/maxogden/auth-socket
21:10:08  <hij1nx>dominictarr: maybe you could help out with pkp? :)
21:10:28  <substack>thlorenz: can you send a pull request?
21:10:40  <mbalho>juliangruber: i am concerned about cpu usage for these higher level serialization protocols... i really wish there was just a dumb binary replication stream that didnt require complex CPU work to serialize/deserialize
21:10:50  <substack>it could just throw with the file data
21:10:59  <hij1nx>dominictarr: it would be nice to have a single spec/ref implementation, and so far, pkp is pretty small and simple
21:11:00  <defunctzombie>substack: they add those files just to make your day better :p
21:11:02  <dominictarr>hij1nx: at the moment I'm researching pgp/trust nets
21:11:16  <juliangruber>mbalho: is the websocket traffic actually encrypted?
21:11:27  <thlorenz>substack: yeah, that will be the simplest solution -- I'll do one tonite (wanna properly test that it works)
21:11:37  <hij1nx>dominictarr: yeah, thats what I did as a starting point
21:11:48  <dominictarr>hij1nx: basically, all I have currently is some notes.
21:11:51  <hij1nx>dominictarr: but i found that the scope was too broad
21:11:53  <juliangruber>mbalho: i got level-replicate to work with level and level-js, just using reconnect-engine
21:12:00  <dominictarr>did you find any good resources?
21:12:03  <mbalho>juliangruber: oh i dont have SSL turned on yet but it supporst it
21:12:15  <hij1nx>dominictarr: yes, i can put together a gist with some links
21:12:21  <juliangruber>mbalho: i need it to work without servers or anything
21:12:21  <substack>defunctzombie: and they cause merge errors because I don't check those into git
21:12:28  <mbalho>juliangruber: why?
21:12:31  <dominictarr>hij1nx yes please!
21:12:44  <juliangruber>mbalho: because, distributed
21:13:28  <mbalho>juliangruber: do you have a specific use case in mind? its probably going to be insecure and slow to do your own encryption
21:13:58  <dominictarr>hij1nx: what I want is part of this idea: https://gist.github.com/dominictarr/5990143
21:14:22  <dominictarr>a way to create an object that signs another object.
21:14:36  <juliangruber>mbalho: a chat application where users store keypairs in their localstorage and the server knows nothing
21:15:11  <dominictarr>basically it would create an object {signed: SIGNED_HASH, signer: HASH_OF_SIGNING_KEY, signature: SIG}
21:16:00  <dominictarr>but the hard part is actually verifying that key X belongs to person Y
21:16:06  <juliangruber>mbalho: the server would just be forwarding encrypted data
21:16:28  <mbalho>juliangruber: only sucky thing about that is XSS vulnerabilities
21:16:37  <defunctzombie>what is the smallest ajax lib people know of?
21:16:37  <juliangruber>mbalho: hm?
21:17:06  <substack>defunctzombie: new XMLHttpRequest
21:17:20  <mbalho>juliangruber: if someone gets access to your JS context they can take your credentials
21:17:22  <defunctzombie>haha
21:17:37  <mbalho>juliangruber: whereas with httponly cookies for instance they can only make requests on your behalf but cant access your credentials directly
21:17:47  <defunctzombie>substack: anything with a reasonable api hahaha
21:18:00  <dominictarr>mbalho: if someone gets access to your machine your are fucked anyway.
21:18:20  <substack>defunctzombie: it's like 3 methods
21:18:27  <juliangruber>mbalho: it would be really great to get that working without having to run a private server
21:18:29  <defunctzombie>substack: haters be hatin
21:18:34  <juliangruber>mbalho: think phones or chromeos
21:18:38  <hij1nx>dominictarr: https://gist.github.com/hij1nx/6107937
21:18:50  <mbalho>dominictarr: XSS !== 'getting access to machine'
21:19:29  <juliangruber>mbalho: xss can be avoided, right
21:19:45  <chrisdickinson>it can be avoided
21:19:48  <chrisdickinson>but you have to be careful.
21:19:52  <hij1nx>dominictarr: if you want an object that signs another object, thats pkp
21:20:17  <juliangruber>chrisdickinson: when doing a web application with focus on security and privacy anyways, that's a given :D
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21:21:35  <dominictarr>hij1nx: what are all the files and emails for?
21:21:38  <hij1nx>dominictarr: however, this is a much smaller subset of your idea
21:21:43  <dominictarr>I just want a tiny module
21:21:54  <hij1nx>dominictarr: thats just sugar on the "workflow"
21:22:12  <hij1nx>dominictarr: it helps people to get the workflow accomplished
21:22:20  <chrisdickinson>juliangruber: `someElem.html('<a href="'+someInput+'">womp</a>')` is all it takes to open pandora's xss box.
21:22:22  <dominictarr>right, but only one specific workflow
21:22:29  <hij1nx>dominictarr: actually i've removed a few steps from the workflow
21:22:53  <hij1nx>dominictarr: sending an email is to alert either party of the signing is now optional
21:23:15  <dominictarr>if this was build into an application, you might do that differently
21:23:15  <hij1nx>dominictarr: and gisting the result as a public record is also no longer needed
21:23:48  <dominictarr>what I want is just an object that signs another object
21:24:00  <juliangruber>chrisdickinson: there is no other way. secure encrypted messaging has to be possible with browser only code. no matter what it takes
21:24:01  <dominictarr>can you pull that out? then we can collaborate.
21:24:08  <hij1nx>dominictarr: if this was to build an app, you'd just be wrapping diffie hellman because that's all you need
21:24:20  <hij1nx>dominictarr: i can def pull it out into a smaller module
21:24:41  <dominictarr>I thought diffiehellman was different
21:24:53  <dominictarr>dh is for exchanging a symetrical key
21:24:57  <chrisdickinson>oh, yeah, i'm just giving an example of where you need to be hyper-vigilant about XSS.
21:25:08  <dominictarr>without eavesdroppers
21:25:10  <hij1nx>dominictarr: my main objective was to offer people a deadly simple tool to sign eachother's packages
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21:25:41  <dominictarr>hij1nx: okay, that is cool -
21:25:57  <dominictarr>(you mean signing like, you've done a security audit?)
21:26:06  <hij1nx>dominictarr: but at the end of the day, you are signing the sha1 of a chunk of data
21:26:33  <juliangruber>dominictarr: security audit *and* to prove it's not been changed, e.g. when a distributed npm is in place
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21:27:04  <dominictarr>juliangruber: mbalho I think chrome apps could help here, also, substack has an idea, regarding appcache
21:27:14  <dominictarr>that could be used to do secure updates
21:27:34  <juliangruber>dominictarr: how do chrome apps help?
21:27:49  <juliangruber>maybe I should invest some time in them...
21:27:57  <dominictarr>they have different permission models than websites
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21:30:25  <juliangruber>mhm
21:31:04  <juliangruber>and on phones it can just use phonegap to get access to lower apis
21:31:11  <juliangruber>in order to create tcp servers e.g.
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21:33:32  <dominictarr>also, can install node programs directly on people's computers
21:33:50  <dominictarr>which people will do if there is a strong use
21:34:05  <dominictarr>although, web is so much easier.
21:34:17  <juliangruber>mhm
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21:45:27  <mbalho>oh so awesome https://twitter.com/hughskennedy/status/361678374579617793
21:48:18  <defunctzombie>mbalho: I think I just wet myself
21:48:42  <mbalho>yea for reals
21:50:28  <defunctzombie>I also want to add a mode to browserify to de-duplicate
21:50:35  <defunctzombie>even if npm install installs duplicates
21:50:46  <defunctzombie>cause that sometimes happens with github urls
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21:57:05  <dominictarr>wow
21:57:17  <dominictarr>that guy needs to be in stackvm
21:58:00  <substack>dominictarr, juliangruber: ok now battleship-search works with n-dimensional inputs
21:58:13  <substack>but there's probably a bug in it someplace because it should converge more towards the maxima
21:58:39  <juliangruber>substack: rad!
21:58:47  <dominictarr>substack: the decription on his wiki was pretty straightforward! a pitty he didn't want to explain it while we where there
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22:01:23  <substack>time for hammocks
22:01:37  <substack>cracking open snow crash
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22:04:03  <dominictarr>substack: nice. a classic
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22:12:10  <defunctzombie>substack: I could not get through that book
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22:31:23  <mbalho>dominictarr: hes a voxel.js contributor, but isnt on irc very often
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22:36:17  <dominictarr>mbalho: he does good work
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22:38:50  <mbalho>dominictarr: check out this talk he just gave https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhoTnce4-EQ
22:39:10  <dominictarr>oh, I saw that one
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22:43:59  <st_luke>mikeal: ICE is the best way to travel in germany
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22:46:19  <mikeal>st_luke: yeah, that's what i was seeing
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22:47:15  <mikeal>i might spring for upper class tickets too
22:47:30  <st_luke>mikeal: fancy
22:47:49  <st_luke>mikeal: there's not a huge difference between first and second class from what I experienced, but reserving a seat is nice so you don't have to get up and move
22:49:15  <st_luke>mikeal: also, if you buy a ticket through eurorail or eurail or any of the third party vendors online you get ripped off, I never had an issue buying a ticket at the station even a few minutes before departure, it seems like the majority of riders don't reserve a seat.
22:49:51  <mikeal>do you get a better rate buying in advance?
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22:50:09  <st_luke>mikeal: no I don't believe so
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22:51:05  <st_luke>also fyi if you take a non-ICE train it sometimes looks like the ones in old James Bond movies, so there's that\
22:52:58  <mikeal>haha
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22:55:01  <st_luke>if you end up buying a ticket at a station keep in mind that american credit cards don't work on the ticket machines cause they lack the special chip thing, so you'll have to get some euros
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23:01:12  <defunctzombie>st_luke: I will merge those new schools later today
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23:04:03  <mikeal>st_luke: usually works if you talk to the booth
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23:04:14  <mikeal>i travelled on ICE a few years back and that's what i had to do
23:04:56  <mikeal>st_luke: what is that thing called actually?
23:04:59  <mikeal>i need a new credit card anyway
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23:11:34  <mk30_>chip and pin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B80SyRmtbdI
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23:34:27  <jesusabdullah>hahaha got an email from an internal recruiter (the okay kind)
23:34:38  <jesusabdullah>title of email: "the startup everyone has been waiting for"
23:34:40  <jesusabdullah>lol
23:34:42  <jesusabdullah>ahhh, sales
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