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00:01:10  <isaacs>mbalho: if you were interested in raising $$ for some npm-on-the-browser thingie, nodesummit would be a goodplace to revolutionize
00:02:03  <mbalho>isaacs: only thing i wanna throw money at is voxel.js
00:02:19  <isaacs>mbalho: that's what oyu should present about
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00:03:44  <rch>do both, voxel + requirebin
00:03:54  <rch>blow their pretty little minds
00:17:11  <damonoehlman>oh wow, requirebin I'm in love
00:19:26  <mbalho>damonoehlman: i need to get the word out more!
00:20:04  <damonoehlman>I had no idea about it
00:20:11  <damonoehlman>Saw the comment and looked it up
00:22:00  <jjjohnny_>whoo is gonna be throwing money at node summit?
00:22:34  <mbalho>investers
00:22:40  <rch>mbalho: the summary of topics looks like typical web development stuff. node deserves better than that so i thought an onslaught of brutal simplicity might fix them
00:22:54  <rch>which is how i think of requirebin and using npm for the browser
00:22:58  <jjjohnny_>i wonder if they will know me from teh first node summit
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00:23:08  <jjjohnny_>if i go again
00:23:13  <jjjohnny_>i left them a little bemused
00:26:29  <mbalho><3 this https://github.com/Rich-Harris/Ractive
00:27:50  <rch>$scope.$apply() that stuff kills me in angular
00:27:53  <substack>isaacs: considering submitting a talk entitled "your employees don't work for you anymore"
00:28:02  <rch>love it
00:28:26  <isaacs>substack: interesting. i'd watch it.
00:28:34  <substack>about how self-organizing community projects work versus corporate projects
00:29:09  <substack>and why community projects have many beneficial qualities that can't be duplicated inside of most corporate structures
00:29:59  <rch>as a result many well-meaning people will go back to their offices and empower some tiger team to create self-organized projects
00:30:09  <jjjohnny_>how about a talk called: don't hire employees, create them
00:30:22  <jjjohnny_>about investing in mentorship
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00:38:53  <jjjohnny_>crickets eh
00:43:09  <jjjohnny_>i dont care about companies anyway!
00:44:14  <jjjohnny_>when I think about people racking their brain over their dumb web product, I cringe
00:44:30  <jjjohnny_>capitalism induced lunacy!
00:45:00  <jjjohnny_>make it or heartbreak it? no thanks!
00:45:03  <substack>but it's a groundbreaking app that will connect dogs with dogwalkers! It will change everything!
00:46:36  <jjjohnny_>i say we team up, build a multi million dollar size hole around our "company" and say you know how to cross that one VEE SEE
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00:47:21  <jjjohnny_>use the money or lose the opprtunity necktier
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00:47:51  <jjjohnny_>until then we making it sucka, whatcha got!
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00:57:16  <mbalho>woot around ~13 mb of data in minecrafts format is only ~2.5 mb in voxel.js' format e.g. http://blockplot.com/world#07afb0b6a7626ca9b3edb191ca9fea2e
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01:12:22  <jjjohnny_>I AM NOT 3 LAWS COMPLIANT
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01:21:08  <jjjohnny_>LOUDBOT: twitlast
01:21:09  <LOUDBOT>http://twitter.com/LOUDBOT/status/360208060821667842 (YTZ/##church-of-loudbot)
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02:14:32  <mbalho>reasons to not user software: https://twitter.com/tjholowaychuk/status/360042365504851968
02:14:56  <mbalho>use*
02:17:35  <damonoehlman>mbalho: Looks like you are trying to start something ;)
02:19:14  <mbalho>:D
02:19:18  <mbalho>at least i use other peoples code
02:20:40  <damonoehlman>I agree, not using something because it approaches things differently than the way you naturally think is a recipe for, well, lots of bad things
02:23:31  <mbalho>idea: nodepackagedmodules.com, an introduction to putting any versioned dependency tree on npm (code agnostic)
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02:32:46  <substack>mbalho: speaking of using software, I was looking at doorknob earlier and it looks like exactly what I want for my lxjs demo
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03:02:24  <mbalho>substack: w00t
03:02:39  <mbalho>substack: feel free to pull req me better apis, i just kinda made it up
03:02:50  <mbalho>substack: the main thing i havent figured out is a way to make it work with things that arent persona e.g. oauth providers
03:02:57  <substack>I was looking at level-user too but that one didn't quite resonate as much
03:03:01  <mbalho>substack: i mean, conceptually i understand how to do it but in terms of making the API nice i havent figured it out
03:03:19  <substack>right
03:04:09  <mbalho>substack: yea level-user feels a little weird still but im using it in blockplot and it works there okay, it might need some regorganization
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03:05:54  <substack>mbalho: I think the biggest thing for level-user would be letting people pass the db ref themselves as a param
03:06:15  <mbalho>substack: oh oops yea totally agree
03:06:48  <substack>and level-user could also have .set() and .get() to set and get nested properties about users maybe?
03:07:03  <substack>or perhaps that could be abstracted separatedly in another module first and then used by level-user
03:07:45  <mbalho>substack: oh yea it should totally let you control the user profile object that doorknob stores
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03:39:34  <substack>mbalho: anyhow it seems like doorknob has enough right now to do basically what I have in mind
03:41:15  <substack>which is just to create a fully-featured twitter-style webapp with offline updates, persona auth, leveldb persistence, shared rendering between the browser and node, and streaming api endpoint
03:41:25  <substack>such that I could live-code all of that in ~25 minutes
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03:41:33  <substack>with some practice
03:41:44  <substack>with tiny modules
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04:20:40  <mbalho>man this opinion is so widespread https://github.com/ask11/indexed/issues/4
04:24:26  <jcrugzz>mbalho: this perception will be shattered
04:24:31  <mbalho>lol
04:24:36  <mbalho>jcrugzz: write a blog post about it!
04:24:51  <mbalho>or make nodepackagedmodules.com, an introduction to putting any versioned dependency tree on npm (code agnostic)
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04:25:00  <jcrugzz>I need to do more of that blog writing thing.
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04:26:38  <st_luke>mbalho: when i find packages like that i usually just put them on npm myself and move on
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04:26:45  <mbalho>lol
04:26:50  <st_luke>set the author to the person who wrote it
04:27:03  <mbalho>yea but i think the dude is smart but just oblivious
04:27:24  <jcrugzz>st_luke: i kinda like that approach
04:27:29  <jcrugzz>education after its already done
04:27:34  <st_luke>jcrugzz: its not a really good approach though
04:27:53  <st_luke>but like
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04:28:01  <jcrugzz>its efficient for your purposes lol. but some people need forced education
04:28:02  <st_luke>if im in a hurry to get a bunch of things done
04:28:47  <st_luke>some people are set to the author of a package on npm and they dont even know it
04:29:01  <st_luke>I wonder if theres some sort of restriction on doing that with licensing
04:29:03  <st_luke>oh well
04:29:06  <jcrugzz>mbalho: arent you gonna be doing a talk on this requirebin stuff to blow peoples minds?
04:29:07  <damonoehlman>I'll do a post on it too at some stage - with a strong "I've changed my mind about publishing browser modules to npm" flavour
04:30:29  <mbalho>jcrugzz: well i want someone to do that talk, im kind of sick of talking
04:30:48  <st_luke>public speaking is the least fun thing in the world imo
04:31:01  <st_luke>after performing surgery on yourself and putting your animal to sleep i think
04:31:02  <mbalho>lol wrong
04:31:11  <mbalho>you just gotta talk about fun things
04:31:25  <jcrugzz>mbalho: ahh i got you.
04:31:57  <st_luke>no not cause of the subject matter
04:32:02  <substack>and telling people who it's gonna be
04:32:08  <substack>st_luke: also practice really helps
04:32:11  <st_luke>i would rather talk to 3 people than 30 people
04:32:23  <substack>I used to get pretty nervous and I gave rubbish presentations when I first started giving them
04:32:52  <jcrugzz>id talk about it but im a front end nub in reality (learned javascript through writing node) using node modules just makes complete since browser/node
04:33:01  <jcrugzz>i may do a post on that at some point
04:33:40  <jcrugzz>st_luke: its always anxiety inducing but people who know what they are talking about have to market the cool shit going on
04:33:42  <st_luke>part of the reason it sucks is cause you have to do something that takes a lot of effort on someone else's timetable
04:34:23  <mbalho>talks are easy when you just spent a year writing modules
04:34:41  <st_luke>jcrugzz: imo talks are just one of the ways you can market something you have worked on. i also hate using the term market fwiw
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04:35:08  <substack>blah why didn't this already exist https://github.com/substack/shallow-copy
04:35:09  * daleharveyhates speaking
04:35:13  <daleharvey>yo max
04:35:16  <mbalho>daleharvey: WASSUP
04:35:20  <mbalho>dale harvey in the house
04:35:36  <mbalho>reppin the uk north side
04:35:43  <st_luke>substack: i always write that manually when i need it
04:35:48  <substack>so that took about 15 minutes from zero to npm module with tests, docs, ci
04:36:01  <substack>st_luke: yeah I noticed I was doing that too often
04:36:23  <substack>and I figured I might as well make it work in all the browsers too
04:36:46  <mbalho>daleharvey: does pouchdb do binary?
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04:37:42  <daleharvey>yeh you can store blob attachments, been a bit lazy with chrome fixing its non support for blobs in idb though
04:38:11  <mbalho>ahh blobs
04:38:20  <daleharvey>max mentioned array buffers work, but havent had time to get to that
04:38:26  <mbalho><- max
04:38:54  <st_luke>substack: does that maybe exist on npm as part of lodash
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04:39:00  <mbalho>its supposed to do any basic js type so its weird that blobs dont work, i wasnt aware of that
04:39:04  <daleharvey>hah I wondered why I recognised the name but couldnt figure out who is was
04:39:06  <mbalho>lol
04:39:29  <substack>st_luke: who knows! lodash is gigantic
04:39:42  <daleharvey>https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=108012
04:39:43  <st_luke>i thought someone published some of the pieces separately
04:39:45  <substack>when I did `npm search shallow copy` I got 0 results
04:39:58  <substack>so as far as I'm concerned nothing existed
04:40:01  <mbalho>daleharvey: i found a workaround for the ff worker idb issue which is that i can read a typed array out of idb on the main thread and use the transferable object api to pass it to the worker, do cpu heavy stuff and transfer it back
04:40:03  <jcrugzz>st_luke: yea i feel you there. There do need to be better ways to educate people on things
04:40:13  <substack>and I looked at the stuff that turned up in `npm search copy` too and they were all deep clone algorithms
04:40:20  <mbalho>daleharvey: but that requires updating major portions of voxeljs/threejs to work with pure typed arrays
04:40:25  <st_luke>jcrugzz: i think there are plenty of good ways
04:40:47  <mbalho>daleharvey: cause the only thing you can transfer in both chrome + ff is a typed array
04:40:56  <jcrugzz>st_luke: not for a large group. there need to be more conference like learning environments happening more often
04:40:57  <st_luke>substack: ah yeah looks like a lot of junk
04:41:14  <daleharvey>mbalho: ah nice
04:41:22  <st_luke>jcrugzz: personally i think giant learning sessions are crappy
04:41:26  <daleharvey>but still pretty annoying
04:41:27  <damonoehlman>substack, st_luke a search at npmsearch.com turned up extendr but the api could use a bit of work for shallow copies: https://github.com/bevry/extendr
04:41:48  <mbalho>daleharvey: yea but at least i can support FF
04:41:50  <st_luke>damonoehlman: thts coffeescript dude
04:41:51  <vladikoff>hey daleharvey !
04:41:54  <jcrugzz>st_luke: im referring to the take gigantic group of people who are interested and send them in smaller groups to a bunch of different workshops
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04:42:03  <jcrugzz>i was a fan of the latest nodeconf style
04:42:06  <mbalho>daleharvey: in chrome check out http://blockplot.com/world#07afb0b6a7626ca9b3edb191ca9fea2e
04:42:19  <damonoehlman>st_luke true not my favourite either
04:42:24  <substack>damonoehlman: when modules have a lot of exposed methods like that it's really hard to find them on npm
04:42:25  <daleharvey>hah hey vladikoff
04:42:33  <substack>damonoehlman: much better to have them be separate modules entirely
04:42:40  <st_luke>damonoehlman: its not that its not my favorite, literally cant read/write coffeescript. its a foreign language
04:43:39  <daleharvey>SF? that is crazy awesome
04:43:50  <mbalho>daleharvey: midtown NYC circa 1940
04:43:58  <mbalho>daleharvey: the empire state building is in there somewhere
04:44:15  <mbalho>daleharvey: the app is a thing you can upload your minecraft single player worlds into and then play them online
04:44:16  <st_luke>i see it
04:44:42  <st_luke>mbalho: when you look down you see a massive beard. does that happen irl
04:44:46  <mbalho>yea
04:44:47  <mbalho>hit r
04:44:52  <mbalho>its realistic
04:44:52  <jcrugzz>mbalho: thats awesome
04:45:12  <damonoehlman>substack I'm not sure I agree there - I think one of the difficulties the "non node" folks have with getting into npm, etc is that there is a bit too much granularity
04:45:18  <st_luke>the hair flows
04:45:26  <damonoehlman>I like what you did with browserify v2 - the static analysis kicks arse
04:45:37  <st_luke>also npm breaks for too many people and they have nfi how to fix it
04:45:47  <mbalho>what breaks?
04:46:08  <damonoehlman>Possibility of creating reusability in larger libraries, but just getting what you need at build time
04:46:12  <damonoehlman>it's ace
04:46:18  <st_luke>mbalho: npm
04:46:30  <mbalho>what about npm breaks?
04:46:32  <mbalho>lol
04:46:59  <damonoehlman>npmsearch with plain text search caps might help though and change my mind though, who knows
04:47:14  <st_luke>a lot of the time its a problem with permissions and npm cant install, theres also issues people have with file descriptor limits
04:47:19  <st_luke>a lot of grunt related issues
04:47:29  <st_luke>also a lot of people have network issues with it, usually proxy related
04:47:35  <mbalho>ive only seen permissions issues with -g installs
04:47:35  <daleharvey>http://junk.arandomurl.com/todo-sync/ is what I spent tonight on
04:47:41  <substack>damonoehlman: when I am less busy I want to make a commonjs-aware pre-minification pass to turn required modules into inline functions given a browserify bundle as input
04:47:53  <daleharvey>login with persona and stuff gets automatically provisioned / synced
04:48:04  <st_luke>also sometimes when people upgrade npm and it messes up it deletes npm
04:48:06  <st_luke>thats a fun one
04:48:11  <substack>google closure can do things like that but it's all lumped together with a bunch of other noise
04:48:27  <st_luke>mbalho: ive read every npm issue thats come in for the past 5 months or so, have gotten an interesting perspective on it
04:48:28  <st_luke>neat
04:48:28  <daleharvey>havent really fixed the frontend yet, but pretty happy that pouch only needed a few minor bug fixes for it
04:48:44  <mbalho>daleharvey: needs an appcache!
04:49:11  <damonoehlman>yeah, there's come good stuff in closure compiler but well there's that whole java thing to have to contend with :/
04:49:18  <substack>st_luke: there's a lot of observation bias with that
04:49:22  <st_luke>also we dont really document npm changes that well so lately a few people cant publish cause their old packages werent grandfathered in to the no lowercase rule
04:49:39  <substack>you only hear about it when npm doesn't work, not when it works great
04:49:50  <daleharvey>'no lowercase' rule? :)
04:49:54  <st_luke>substack: probably, but i figure there are a lot of people who aren't reporting issues also. ive had some just ask me directly since they knew i have done some node things
04:50:02  <st_luke>daleharvey: i mean no uppercase
04:50:02  <st_luke>my bad
04:50:34  <mbalho>st_luke: i think you should write a FAQ
04:50:44  <mbalho>st_luke: or a 'yer doin it rong' guide
04:51:02  <daleharvey>mbalho: yeh will probably add one at some point, mostly just using it to test and fix bugs, and uses as a tutorial base
04:51:12  <mbalho>ah cool
04:51:18  <st_luke>i dont really like the 'youre doing it wrong approach' cause its kind of combative but ive thought about doing a faq sometime
04:51:45  <st_luke>also people are dicks on #node.js when people have npm questions or any questions for that matter
04:52:12  <daleharvey>is there any particular reason to not just set with_credentials on xhr
04:52:32  <mbalho>daleharvey: reducing MITM surface area
04:52:33  <daleharvey>it seems like if thats gonna cause a problem, you are already screwed
04:52:53  <mbalho>but yea
04:53:01  <mbalho>i dont think anyone would really care if you did
04:53:24  <mbalho>daleharvey: i implemented a thing the other day for blockplot where i embed my persona provider server in an iframe
04:53:38  <mbalho>daleharvey: then use postmessage to tell the parent page when youre logged in
04:53:56  <mbalho>daleharvey: then do with credentials XHR/websockets to the backend persona server to sync data
04:53:58  <st_luke>wooo tc 39 meeting this week
04:54:10  <mbalho>daleharvey: that way i can put my app on gh-pages and have a generic backend somewhere else
04:54:51  <daleharvey>mbalho: any reason to not just put cors on your persona backend?
04:55:35  <mbalho>daleharvey: so its for blockplot.com
04:55:39  <mbalho>daleharvey: which is a static site
04:55:47  <mbalho>daleharvey: but the backend is on a different domain + server
04:56:02  <mbalho>daleharvey: and i dont want persona to log into blockplot.com, i want it to log into the backend
04:56:25  <daleharvey>sure, thats the same with http://junk.arandomurl.com/todo-sync/
04:57:03  <mbalho>daleharvey: where is the backend?
04:57:09  <daleharvey>the persona server is running on http://couch-persona.pouchdb.com/, and the database http://couch-persona.iriscouch.com/
04:57:51  <mbalho>daleharvey: so does it log you into couch-persona.iriscouch.com when you log in with persona?
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04:58:09  <daleharvey>the persona request returns a url and a token to authenticate with
04:59:16  <mbalho>daleharvey: yea but how do you do http auth with iriscouch
05:00:15  <daleharvey>the token you get back is just a couch session cookie, xhr.setRequestHeader("Cookie", result.authToken);
05:00:42  <mbalho>ah so its not httponly
05:01:54  <mbalho>daleharvey: when you log in with the persona pop up you get a token that you give to couch, then couch uses that token to verify your identity with persona?
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05:03:20  <daleharvey>nah, the persona server validates the assertion, once thats successful it makes a random password for you, logs in, reads the cookie and gives it back to you
05:04:03  <mbalho>daleharvey: ah gotcha
05:04:22  <mbalho>daleharvey: i didnt wanna expose the cookies to JS
05:05:23  <st_luke>substack: yea i usually use just slice() for arrays too
05:05:34  <daleharvey>so your persona server and backend are on the same host?
05:06:05  <mbalho>daleharvey: yea
05:06:31  <mbalho>daleharvey: its https://github.com/maxogden/level-socket which uses https://github.com/maxogden/auth-socket which uses https://github.com/maxogden/doorknob
05:07:22  <substack>st_luke: I hadn't thought of that
05:08:29  <mbalho>daleharvey: this is where i use it mostly, i need to clean it up tho https://github.com/maxogden/blockplot/blob/master/world.js#L34-L53
05:08:44  <daleharvey>thats pretty cool, I wanted to make this setup work with people existing couches so needed remote db host to work
05:09:00  <mbalho>daleharvey: ahh yea
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05:11:37  <st_luke>someone should do hosted multilevel as a service already
05:11:57  <jesusabdullah>do it st_luke
05:12:11  <jesusabdullah>host multilevel as a service, LIKE THE WIND
05:12:12  <st_luke>no
05:12:22  <jesusabdullah>:(
05:12:34  <mbalho>ive essentially been working on the auth part
05:12:43  <mbalho>pretty much have it figured out and working now
05:12:51  <mbalho>just need a http basic auth api for doorknob
05:12:53  <mbalho>and oauth
05:12:53  <jesusabdullah>gg
05:14:34  <daleharvey>man this is killing me, another library breaking Pouch by extending Array / Object
05:15:52  <mbalho>hmm odd response at the bottom https://github.com/ask11/indexed/issues/2
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05:20:41  <st_luke>substack mbalho: was just a car accident in front of the house
05:20:48  <st_luke>some guy in a lexus obliterated a parked van
05:20:52  <st_luke>or suv
05:21:27  <mbalho>oh shit
05:22:45  <mbalho>hit n run! damn
05:22:55  <jesusabdullah>daaang
05:25:39  * defunctzombie_zzchanged nick to defunctzombie
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05:27:49  <dominictarr>daleharvey: welcome to stackvm.
05:28:23  <daleharvey>Yo, hey dominictarr
05:28:37  * daleharveyfeels bad for closing a 3000 line PR
05:33:04  <substack>st!
05:37:01  <jesusabdullah>huh?
05:37:47  <defunctzombie>substack: did shallow-copy not already exist?
05:37:52  <defunctzombie>that seems quite strange haha
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05:40:26  <substack>defunctzombie: it did not
05:40:38  <defunctzombie>new things every day!!
05:40:38  <substack>and a search for "shallow copy" returned 0 results
05:40:55  <defunctzombie>make progress with testling server support stuff?
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06:09:35  <substack>defunctzombie: yes I'm working on that right now in fact!
06:13:16  <juliangruber>jesusabdullah: i think nearform is working on a hosted leveldb/multilevel service
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06:14:23  <mbalho>anyone else besides dominic?
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06:18:51  <juliangruber>mbalho: you mean at nearform?
06:19:15  <mbalho>yep
06:19:47  <juliangruber>mbalho: i think rvagg too
06:19:53  <rvagg>NEIN
06:19:58  <juliangruber>oh
06:20:02  <juliangruber>dann nicht
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06:20:51  <juliangruber>yeah, am excited to see how such a service could look like
06:22:18  <mbalho>agreed
06:23:19  <mbalho>ive been messin with very similar stuff this week, https://github.com/maxogden/level-socket is pretty cool cause it lets you write ugly code like this :P https://github.com/maxogden/blockplot/blob/master/world.js#L34
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06:27:35  <rvagg>what's that router that mikeal really likes>
06:27:36  <rvagg>?
06:27:44  <rvagg>thinking of switching out director for something else
06:28:05  <damonoehlman>mapleTree ?
06:28:12  <rvagg>that's the one
06:28:42  <mbalho>hij1nx: whats your new one called
06:29:41  <rvagg>I wish hapi was more modular, looks like a decent router in there
06:30:13  <juliangruber>mbalho: it's not released yet
06:30:28  <damonoehlman>kinda wordy...
06:30:48  <juliangruber>mbalho: the api will be like https://gist.github.com/juliangruber/6077347
06:31:21  <rvagg>based on this juliangruber? https://github.com/hij1nx/paramify
06:31:32  <juliangruber>rvagg: yes, and ghub.io/single-page
06:31:43  <jesusabdullah>hay guise
06:31:49  <jesusabdullah>I gave up on working today :(
06:32:04  <rvagg>ok, so it's a client & server type thing juliangruber?
06:32:11  <rvagg>sounds like director-style overreach
06:32:13  <rvagg>do one thing well
06:32:34  <juliangruber>rvagg: oh, it's just for the client, because on the server just paramify is enough
06:32:47  <rvagg>ok, cool, looking at paramify now
06:37:52  <damonoehlman>mbalho would you accept a PR for requirebin that allowed page-body.html to be supplied from gist also?
06:38:56  <mbalho>damonoehlman: sure, theres an api for it in the sandbox module too https://github.com/maxogden/browser-module-sandbox#sandboxoptions
06:38:59  <juliangruber>damonoehlman mbalho: and edit css, maybe a 3 column thing
06:39:20  <mbalho>i was thinking of that, dont wanna clutter it up too much
06:39:43  <mbalho>i like the way multi file editing works with gists
06:39:44  <juliangruber>mbalho: or a select box, so you can switch between 3 files
06:40:03  <damonoehlman>I like the interface simple, with a focus on the JS
06:40:08  <juliangruber>that would at least not clutter up the interface
06:40:28  <juliangruber>damonoehlman: then just use the dom and insert-css
06:40:58  <juliangruber>loading html from gists is only cool if you can also edit the html inside requirebin
06:41:02  <mbalho>i think the pull req damon proposed is good cause then at least theres a workaround, you just edit it on gist.github.com :D
06:41:04  <damonoehlman>juliangruber That's not really what I meant
06:41:43  <mbalho>im not opposed to multiple file editing but it needs to be done in a way that isnt confusing/overwhelming to beginners
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06:42:27  <damonoehlman>Yeah, that's what I liked too. For the stuff that I'm doing I need some boilerplate HTML / CSS but it's really not the focus
06:42:57  <juliangruber>yeah now i see how that would work
06:43:33  <juliangruber>showcasers would do the extra steps to add custom html/css, consumers or experimenters just don't have to / don't care
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06:43:58  <mbalho>+1 to those personas
06:44:29  <damonoehlman>yep, agreed
06:44:41  <damonoehlman>nicely put julian
06:47:23  <damonoehlman>is anyone sponsoring the hosting of browserify-cdn?
06:47:29  <mbalho>just me
06:47:42  <mbalho>i bought a linode, its 40 bucks a month right now
06:47:52  <mbalho>if you wanna gittip me it would be much appreciated https://www.gittip.com/maxogden/
06:48:20  <damonoehlman>yeah, I'll do that - makes a big difference to me
06:49:43  <damonoehlman>damn, can't gittip less than 1c a month ;)
06:49:53  <mbalho>haha
06:49:59  <mbalho>1 buck a week is my preferred tip
06:52:03  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: oh wow, that's a pretty expensive machine
06:52:33  <mbalho>depends on your definition of expensive
06:52:39  <jesusabdullah>I guess so
06:52:44  <jesusabdullah>I always bought tiny machines
06:52:46  <mbalho>its the 2gb one https://www.linode.com/
06:52:58  <jesusabdullah>what kind of load is it getting?
06:53:05  <mbalho>pretty low still
06:53:10  <jesusabdullah>aha
06:53:53  <mbalho>moar people need to write requirebin examples for readmes
06:53:54  <damonoehlman>wow you can change your tip very easily
06:54:04  <damonoehlman>I'm on it at the moment
06:54:10  <damonoehlman>writing readmes that is
06:54:15  <damonoehlman>not changing tip amounts
06:54:23  <mbalho>hah
06:55:41  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: yeah, I'm-a start doing that for my stuff I think
06:56:30  <mbalho>we need a page that lists all of the bling that you can put in your readme
06:56:56  <mbalho>david-dm, travis-ci, testling-ci, requirebin, nodei.co
06:56:58  <mbalho>what else
06:57:19  <jesusabdullah>hahaha
06:57:28  <jesusabdullah>david-dm ?
06:57:59  <mbalho>its more likely than you think
06:58:50  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: I link directly to browserify-cdn standalone builds in my readmes now
06:58:57  <mbalho>nice
06:59:04  <damonoehlman>I suggested on #polyhack that someone register badgistry.com to help regulate the masses
06:59:14  <damonoehlman>nobody has though
06:59:15  <mbalho>hah
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07:01:22  <jesusabdullah>is there a cli tool for rendering web pages as pdfs yet
07:01:37  <damonoehlman>apart from phantomjs?
07:01:44  <jesusabdullah>maybe?
07:01:50  <jesusabdullah>I know you can get output from phantom
07:02:22  <jesusabdullah>I think I want something like, html2pdf ./foo.html --width=950px -o ./foo.pdf
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07:03:34  <damonoehlman>it's been a while since I tried, but I found phantom to be the best option
07:07:32  <jesusabdullah>yeah, looks like it
07:07:40  <jesusabdullah>just wrap that in a cli tool
07:07:48  <jesusabdullah>probably a phantom script <_<;
07:08:09  <damonoehlman>was looking for the script I had, but can't find it
07:08:47  <damonoehlman>was basically taking web presentations and generating pdfs so they could be pushed up to something like speakerdeck
07:10:02  <damonoehlman>time to catch a train...
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07:12:15  <st_luke>defunctzombie: nyu is so fuuuckd
07:12:35  <jesusabdullah>wait how come?
07:12:37  <defunctzombie>st_luke: yep
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07:19:51  <djcoin>Damn guyz
07:20:05  <djcoin>Can't wait to see what dominictarr has to say about CCNx
07:20:26  <djcoin>I was thinking of a js/json/leveldb implementation at the beginning of this year
07:22:07  <djcoin>https://gist.github.com/dominictarr/5990143
07:23:22  <st_luke>defunctzombie: colleges have ridiculous departments also
07:23:29  <st_luke>defunctzombie: one of nyu's was drama therapy
07:23:30  <st_luke>wtf?
07:24:04  <st_luke>subject/department
07:25:19  <defunctzombie>haha
07:25:23  <defunctzombie>drama therapy
07:25:25  <defunctzombie>that is a new one
07:25:47  <st_luke>I thought it was just a class, but no
07:25:58  <st_luke>no wonder college is so expensive
07:26:06  <st_luke>drama therapy teachers must be hard to find
07:27:46  <jesusabdullah>sounds, uhh
07:27:48  <jesusabdullah>useful?
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07:45:47  <substack>http://entrendipity.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/cross-development-common-code-base-for.html
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07:53:40  <djcoin>substack: thoughts ?
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07:58:16  <djcoin>Don't know if the "target the browser first" is better than target node first
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08:08:31  <st_luke>xpath is so nice
08:10:23  <defunctzombie>yep
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08:58:46  <jjjohnny_>is tweetbombing US reps an act of some adjective terrorism?
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10:24:25  <st_luke>find out
10:24:29  <st_luke>by doing it
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10:24:31  <st_luke>well
10:24:40  <st_luke>just do not use the b word
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13:43:25  <juliangruber>jesusabdullah: you can use that as a starting point: https://github.com/juliangruber/review/blob/master/script/rasterize.js
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15:04:48  <Domenic_>thlorenz: need es6ify updated rawr
15:05:15  <thlorenz>rawr?
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15:05:37  <thlorenz>Domenic_: I need to make it use the official node-traceur thing
15:05:47  <thlorenz>just had no time so far to do it
15:06:06  <thlorenz>not sure if they supplied all entriepoints that I need (and exposed in my version)
15:06:21  <thlorenz>Domenic_: so PR welcome if you need this quick ;)
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15:11:41  <Domenic_>thlorenz: i might timebox that for the next half-hour or so...
15:12:06  <Domenic_>thlorenz: starting to write d3 code, and I'm feeling a desparate need for arrow functions and array destructuring.
15:12:23  <thlorenz>cool, basically just look at my chagnes to node-traceur in my fork and see what I exposed an make sure you can get to it from the official version
15:12:29  <thlorenz>the rest should be easy
15:12:56  <thlorenz>Domenic_: another idea I had with es6 was:
15:13:28  <thlorenz>use co and rewrite all 'require's to 'yield require' and have a commonjs working in the browser w/out bundling ;)
15:14:32  <thlorenz>Domenic_: the rewrite would happen dynamically of course (when you require it)
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15:27:44  <juliangruber>quick streams problem
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15:29:36  <juliangruber>on a createReadStream method I am returning a through stream, that filters my underlying data feed
15:29:38  * defunctzombie_zzchanged nick to defunctzombie
15:29:49  <juliangruber>e.g. return db.createReadStream().pipe(through(write, end))
15:30:00  <juliangruber>now this stream that I return needs to be readable only
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15:30:20  <juliangruber>how do I return a readable stream, that forwards backpressure to the underlying stream?
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15:30:50  <juliangruber>because if I pipe the underlying stream to the through stream and the through stream isn't writable, data won't flow
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15:34:06  <Domenic_>thlorenz: that was easy, yay
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15:35:25  <thlorenz>Domenic_: no shit
15:35:34  <thlorenz>I'll pull that in asap!
15:36:25  <thlorenz>Domenic_: btw the sourcemapping in the tests changed due to changes in the mozilla source-map module, I had to update other libs already
15:37:12  <Domenic_>thlorenz: ah ok, was wondering about that, just kind of assumed some of the output changed due to traceur upgrades or something
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15:39:21  <jcrugzz>juliangruber: ahh so this is the issue i ran into. i would love to know how to do this as wel
15:40:08  <juliangruber>jcrugzz: I'm using throughout now, that fixed it like this: https://github.com/Wayla/level-places/blob/master/index.js#L41-43
15:40:25  <juliangruber>so you make a wrapper stream read-only
15:40:37  <jcrugzz>ahhh ok
15:41:06  <jcrugzz>juliangruber: thanks for that
15:41:11  <juliangruber>jcrugzz: sure :)
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15:45:39  <mikeal>juliangruber: we're doing a podcast about replication today at 4:30 PST, you in?
15:45:50  <mikeal>more like a discussion on skype that we happen to publish
15:47:29  <thlorenz>Domenic_: yay! published
15:47:56  <thlorenz>sourcemaps work a bit better for it in canary, but still kind of a mess whenever generators are involved
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15:48:38  <Domenic_>thlorenz: this is so cool, my d3 code just got a billion times better
15:48:45  <thlorenz>:)
15:49:02  <thlorenz>Domenic_: Is this still relevant now? https://github.com/thlorenz/es6ify/issues/5
15:49:44  <Domenic_>thlorenz: hmm i didn't check but i think it still is. pretty sure i'm not using any runtime features though so i haven't run into it yet
15:51:09  <thlorenz>Domenic_: couldn't you just add the runtimne to browserify bundle like I show in the example? https://github.com/thlorenz/es6ify#es6ify-
15:51:19  <Domenic_>thlorenz: yes but why should i have to?
15:51:29  <thlorenz>Domenic_: cause it's huge
15:51:38  <thlorenz>and you may not want it if you don't need it
15:51:52  <Domenic_>thlorenz: hmm yeah if i don't need it that's a good point. annoying.
15:52:10  <thlorenz>Domenic_: also then it couldn't work as a pure transform anymore
15:52:27  <thlorenz>since then I'd need ref to browserify like browserify-shim does
15:52:57  <Domenic_>thlorenz: that shouldn't be true. see the simple-jadeify example.
15:53:47  <thlorenz>Domenic_: but you add it to every output file
15:53:48  <juliangruber>mikeal: i haven't actually done work on replication myself
15:53:54  <thlorenz>that's not a good solution IMO
15:54:04  <thlorenz>since you'd have it in the bundle lots of times
15:54:13  <juliangruber>mikeal: so don't know if i could add meaningful content
15:54:37  <juliangruber>mikeal: but could just join if it's not like "juliangruber officially joined but did not say a word"
15:54:42  <juliangruber>you know what i mean?
15:54:44  <mikeal>it's more of a discussion
15:54:54  <thlorenz>Domenic_: never mind, get it now
15:54:54  <juliangruber>ok
15:54:56  <mikeal>so if you have ideas/questions that could also be helpful
15:55:02  <juliangruber>ok sweet
15:55:10  <juliangruber>lemme just check time
15:55:14  <thlorenz>Domenic_: you just require multiple times, that is a good idea
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15:55:51  <Domenic_>thlorenz: :) not sure about the simpler cases though where runtime isn't necessary.
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15:56:24  <thlorenz>Domenic_: yeah, so for es6ify current solution may be best, but for other stuff that is a good solution
15:56:33  <juliangruber>mikeal: i'm in
15:56:38  <Domenic_>i wonder how big the runtime is minified and gzipped
15:56:47  <mikeal>cool
15:57:29  <juliangruber>mikeal: could get paolo on board too, we're in the same room
15:57:50  <thlorenz>Domenic_: I did something similar for bromote https://github.com/thlorenz/bromote/blob/master/lib/remote.hbs#L4
15:57:56  <mikeal>juliangruber: i sent him an email
15:58:12  <mikeal>like 10 minutes ago
15:58:18  <juliangruber>cool
15:59:21  <Domenic_>thlorenz: 1023 bytes mingzipped
16:00:00  <thlorenz>Domenic_: not too bad and probably less the generator statemachine that gets created
16:00:11  <Domenic_>thlorenz: hahaha yeah
16:01:14  <thlorenz>Domenic_: how about we add an option here: https://github.com/thlorenz/es6ify/blob/master/index.js#L66-L68 that allows setting auto require to false
16:01:27  <thlorenz>and by default we'd require it, so the manual add is no longer needed
16:01:29  <Domenic_>thlorenz: so default auto-require? +1
16:01:33  <thlorenz>yep
16:02:11  <thlorenz>Domenic_: should be fairly easy - if you get to it let me know, otherwise I'll do it this weekend
16:02:55  <Domenic_>thlorenz: sounds good, i'll probably do it if i end up using any runtime features otherwise might leave it for you :P
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16:08:13  <thlorenz>Domenic_: sounds like a plan :P, but I might not get to it this weekend though in the hopes that you'll need it next week or so
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18:36:40  <mbalho>muaha finally got through to the guy https://github.com/ask11/indexed/issues/2#issuecomment-21547057
18:37:54  <defunctzombie>browserify has way too many dependencies
18:38:03  <defunctzombie>shit like "umd" brings in uglify again?
18:38:15  <defunctzombie>and source map again
18:38:18  <defunctzombie>so much stuff
18:41:25  <mikeal>defunctzombie: do the versions differ?
18:41:35  <jesusabdullah>whiner.
18:41:44  <defunctzombie>mikeal: of what?
18:41:52  <jesusabdullah>I feels you though. Is there a good way to shrinkwrap that shit?
18:41:54  <mikeal>of the deps that show up twice
18:42:02  <mikeal>shrinkwrap is the worst
18:42:10  <jesusabdullah>be a man mikeal
18:42:11  <jesusabdullah>be a man
18:42:15  <mikeal>it actually makes this problem worse because now dedupe doesn't work right
18:42:25  <jesusabdullah>first dedupe, then shrinkwrap?
18:42:26  <mikeal>so you can't even flatten out all these deps after you install them
18:42:29  <defunctzombie>mikeal: I was mostly complaining about the need to have deps like uglify for UMD module
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18:42:41  <defunctzombie>I don't use shrinkwrap
18:42:41  <jesusabdullah>defunctzombie: yeah, not my department
18:42:48  * jesusabdullahjazz hands
18:42:59  <mikeal>i care more about the dep chain of what I run through browserify than browserify itself
18:43:02  <jesusabdullah>oh look at me I'm defunctzombie and/or mikeal and I don't use SHRINKWRAP
18:43:05  <mikeal>currently lodash is like half my package
18:43:10  <jesusabdullah>lol
18:43:16  <jesusabdullah>okay I don't use shrinkwrap either
18:43:19  <jesusabdullah>if I can be real
18:43:24  <defunctzombie>mikeal: yea, ive been thinking about ways to help that
18:43:36  <jesusabdullah>not due to hatred or educated dislike though
18:43:36  <defunctzombie>mikeal: at end of day there isn't too much magic that can be done safely without user action
18:43:40  <jesusabdullah>more of a "not giving a shit"
18:43:42  <mikeal>it's about to get much easier
18:43:49  <defunctzombie>mikeal: one annoying thing is that dedup doesn't work on githup url I think
18:43:56  <mikeal>lodash is going to publish every method as its own package
18:44:06  <mikeal>so you can just require the methods you need
18:44:07  <defunctzombie>I don't use things like lodash
18:44:24  <defunctzombie>mostly cause I want separate methods like you said
18:44:30  <mikeal>defunctzombie: we have a policy about not using git urls in production
18:44:41  <defunctzombie>that policy wouldn't work for me
18:44:45  <mikeal>there is no better deep clone than lodash's
18:44:46  <defunctzombie>package mainters are too slow
18:44:56  <defunctzombie>things like engine.io-client
18:45:00  <defunctzombie>I make work with browserify
18:45:06  <defunctzombie>but upstream doesn't care about that as much
18:45:18  <defunctzombie>so I have have giturls for many things like that
18:47:08  <defunctzombie>I think the low overhead of a few client side duplicates is worth the price of sanity
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18:49:30  <DTrejo>defunctzombie: doesnt lodash let you build your own version with only the fn's you want?
18:49:38  <defunctzombie>no idea
18:50:13  <DTrejo>pretty sure they do, i heard kit talking about it at some point
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18:52:27  <DTrejo>safe to say that consensus on the use of shrinkwrap/check-into-git/be-unprotected is still mixed?
18:52:32  <defunctzombie>I hate grab bag utility libraies
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18:54:20  <substack>if you use tiny modules that only do what you want, you get a build that only has the fns you want
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18:55:08  <thlorenz>substack: +1
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19:01:16  <defunctzombie>yep, except when you get a build of everyone using a different version of all the tiny modules hahaha
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19:03:28  <jesusabdullah>just got an interesting email this morning
19:04:45  <jesusabdullah>one deserving of a solid reply
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19:09:25  <chapel>yeah jesusabdullah ?
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19:11:10  <jesusabdullah>yeah, do you guys know a ben postlethwaite?
19:11:21  <chapel>I don't
19:11:25  <jesusabdullah>mhm
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19:17:00  <DTrejo>is he @postwait?
19:17:12  <DTrejo>no nvm
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19:18:48  <DTrejo>did you move back to alaska?
19:19:45  <chapel>DTrejo: yeah he did
19:19:57  <jesusabdullah>DTrejo: yeah back in AK for now
19:19:58  * defunctzombieis very anxious to get engine.io-client tested in testling server :)
19:20:10  <jesusabdullah>DTrejo: sounds like I'm going to be moving again though, to Utah
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19:20:29  <DTrejo>for fun?
19:20:36  <jesusabdullah>for work
19:20:47  <jesusabdullah>make actual real money
19:21:07  <jesusabdullah>no longer will I have to feel guilt when I go to the bodega to buy snacks!
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19:23:02  <DTrejo>nice, dont forget to marry a buncha people. that's utah right?
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19:35:40  <jesusabdullah>DTrejo: sort of
19:35:52  <jesusabdullah>DTrejo: mainline mos excommunicate for polygamy
19:46:39  <DTrejo>mm
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19:51:03  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: lol why dont you get a programming job and live from anywhere
19:52:42  <jesusabdullah>that's basically the plan mbalho
19:52:57  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: I just don't care much about where I live as long as it's not terrible so I told people I was wide open for relo
19:53:21  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: I had to turn down a mech eng job cause I realized I like software more
19:54:05  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: way I see it Utah is the safest possible adventure lol
19:54:39  <jesusabdullah>okay, so, today's agenda, accept job, work on freelance
19:54:46  <jesusabdullah>probably more zelda
19:58:19  <DTrejo>eat
19:58:50  <DTrejo>sounds like a good way to experience new lands etc
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19:59:33  <jesusabdullah>mmhmm
20:00:37  <jesusabdullah>also: oh yeah I should eat today
20:01:13  <mbalho>freezer pizza
20:01:22  <mbalho>totinos specifically
20:01:55  <jesusabdullah>do they make gluten free totinos?
20:02:10  <jesusabdullah>apparently wheat gives me heartburn and a whole mess of other things
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20:54:39  <defunctzombie>isaacs: what versions of libc do you build node against?
20:54:45  <defunctzombie>seems to want >= 2.14?
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20:59:03  <defunctzombie>isaacs: yep, installing latest node binary on debian stable does not work :)
20:59:12  <defunctzombie>node: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.15' not found (required by node)
20:59:12  <defunctzombie>node: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.14' not found (required by node)
20:59:44  <isaacs>defunctzombie: yeah, i guess
20:59:58  <defunctzombie>any reason that changed from before?
21:00:04  <defunctzombie>I had 0.10.12 installed without issue
21:02:43  <defunctzombie>isaacs: and any way to get that fixed?
21:02:57  <isaacs>defunctzombie: come to #libuv. bug tjfontaine
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21:38:06  <daleharvey>whats like the safest clone / extend algorithm around?
21:38:07  <jjjohnny_>rideshare to from LA auhust 3rd-5th respective if anybody wanna rideshare
21:38:50  <daleharvey>I keep needing to clone object arguments to write them to idb, and libraries keep on adding crap to Array / OBject which breaks everything
21:39:26  <mbalho>daleharvey: substack just wrote one yesterday called shallow-clone
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21:41:07  <daleharvey>it needs to be deep
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21:47:03  <mbalho>w00t linode doubled disk space today, now requirebin has 100 giggabytes
21:47:09  <mbalho>jiggabytes*
21:47:17  <chilts>heh
21:47:34  <chilts>I thought we got extra memory last week, didn't realise it was more disk too :)
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22:01:23  <jjjohnny_>jiggabytes!
22:01:49  <jjjohnny_>how many jigglebits is that?
22:02:05  <mbalho>87 oscillations
22:02:47  <jjjohnny_>id restart my linode by then i would have to restart a bunch of servers ho hum
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22:14:28  <juliangruber>daleharvey: what about https://github.com/pvorb/node-clone ?
22:15:07  <juliangruber>also, JSON.parse(JSON.stringify(obj))
22:15:53  <daleharvey>yeh the json parse thing worked nice, we shouldnt have taken that out
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22:28:22  <jesusabdullah>taken it out?
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23:02:52  <mbalho>mk30: YO!
23:03:06  <mk30>hello!
23:03:09  <mbalho>mk30: also fun is #nerdtracker
23:03:23  <mk30>kk
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23:49:20  <Raynos>I just realized that my "github commenting voice" is dominictarr's voice
23:49:34  <Raynos>I read and write all comments in his voice.
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23:51:55  <jesusabdullah>hahaha
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