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00:17:23  <st_luke>.io domains are $27 on gandi.net right now, cheapest I've seen them
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00:23:39  <jesusabdullah>st_luke: serious about the .io?
00:23:43  <jesusabdullah>st_luke: .com 4 lyfe
00:23:52  <jesusabdullah>st_luke: actually I'm partial to .net but, yeah
00:24:16  <st_luke>reallylongdomainnamecausetheyarealltaken.com
00:24:38  <jesusabdullah>that's cause you're not creative
00:25:49  <jesusabdullah>hehe
00:25:50  <jesusabdullah>hmmm
00:25:51  <jesusabdullah>so
00:25:56  <jesusabdullah>resident evil 4 or majora's mask?
00:25:59  <st_luke>jesusabdullah: it's different than npm because most good domains are just squatters or seo bullshit
00:26:37  <jesusabdullah>yeah that's true
00:26:49  <st_luke>its not a matter of tens of thousands, there are 109 MILLION registered dot com domains
00:26:50  <jesusabdullah>joshandbird.com is available :3
00:28:40  <jesusabdullah>oh man I did not think I'd be this hung over
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00:59:09  <thl0>mbalho: thanks for pointing out that hypernal problem, still wondering what the best practice is though
01:00:34  <thl0>so if I have an index.js file is it best to point main in package.json at it or have no main at all? cc substack chrisdickinson Raynos Domenic_ hij1nx
01:02:50  <mbalho>https://github.com/maxogden/art-of-node#the-simplest-possible-module
01:02:57  <mbalho>dunno about best practice but thats the simplest practice
01:03:27  <substack>thl0: I put a main field anyhow
01:03:34  <thl0>mbalho: will prob write a script to fix all the other culprits I have
01:04:14  <thl0>substack: ok, thanks -- I'm leaning towards that although mbalho is correct that technically it is redundant
01:04:28  <thl0>mbalho: btw looking from the conversations from about 4hrs ago hypernal is exactly what you need
01:04:56  <mbalho>thl0: haha yea
01:05:16  <thl0>mbalho: I use it for scriptie-talkie http://thlorenz.github.io/scriptie-talkie/
01:05:20  <mbalho>ahhhh cool
01:07:24  <thl0>mbalho: love that require in the browser thing you are building -- was playing with it earlier :)
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01:10:26  <mbalho>thl0: thanks! i wanna add hypernal to it
01:10:38  <mbalho>thl0: so that theres a button where you can run code in a browser terminal
01:10:52  <mbalho>thl0: and it will automatically take anything written to stdout and pipe it to the temrinal
01:11:03  <thl0>mbalho: that's what I thought you were doing ;)
01:11:31  <thl0>you could do something like window.console.log = term.writeln.bind(term0
01:11:57  <mbalho>thl0: yea also hijacking process.stdout so modules written for terminal will work
01:12:20  <thl0>mbalho: look into hyperwatch for that
01:12:36  <thl0>https://github.com/thlorenz/hyperwatch
01:12:38  <mbalho>wtf is with you people and the wordl 'hyper' lately
01:12:42  <mbalho>word*
01:12:44  <mbalho>:D
01:12:49  <thl0>mbalho: it pipes server output to the browser
01:12:55  <mbalho>its like you and substack read a bunch of ted nelson books at the same time
01:13:08  <thl0>hyprnal beause it converts terminal output to hyper text ;)
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01:13:32  <thl0>i.e it is a HYPERtexttermiNAL
01:13:41  <mbalho>thl0: i dont want to run node, i want to run modules written against the process.stdout api in the browser but have them work
01:14:05  <thl0>ah, ok then you should be able to just pipe that
01:18:55  <st_luke>Raynos__: using https://github.com/raynos/webrtc-stream
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01:26:32  * thl0is checking out Ted Nelson
01:27:11  <thl0>substack which one did you read? Geeks bearing Gifts looks interesting
01:27:56  <substack>I haven't read anything.
01:28:38  <thl0>ah, so mbahlo was just joking I guess
01:29:01  <thl0>some of these look interesting though like Possiplex mbalho did you read any of those?
01:30:15  <mbalho>thl0: one of my favorite books is literary machines
01:30:46  <thl0>mbalho: ok - will look into that - wish I could get pdf or kindle versions of those - hate having dead trees in the house
01:30:53  <mbalho>the paper version is hard to find
01:31:02  <mbalho>its also a weird book cause you read it non-linearly
01:31:16  <mbalho>its written in the literary version of continuation passing style
01:31:19  <mbalho>hard to explain
01:32:16  <thl0>mbalho: so it's perfect for nodejs folks then :)
01:33:54  <mbalho>heh yea
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01:35:49  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: can i force browserify-cdn to install a newer version of something?
01:37:12  <thl0>mbalho: that literary machines thing seems to be a collector's item it's going used for up to $160
01:37:37  <mbalho>its a pretty important book IMO
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01:43:18  <mbalho>thl0: the readme example in hypernal needs to be var term = require('hypernal')(); instead of var term = require('hypernal'); for it to be copy-paste-able
01:43:40  <mbalho>thl0: also is there css i need to use to make it look pretty?
01:43:41  <thl0>good point - will fix that
01:44:37  <thl0>mbalho: it should look ok by default, but you can improve the styling if you want
01:44:44  <mbalho>cool
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01:47:29  <thl0>mbalho: actually just realized the readme has an example index.css to style it ;)
01:48:31  <mbalho>ohh yea
01:49:51  <thl0>mbalho: let me know when you got something up that's working -- excited!
01:54:09  <mbalho>thl0: well your example now copypastes into requirebin
01:54:19  <thl0>:)
01:55:01  <mbalho>thl0: i think im gonna make a new button on requirebin though that runs the code in a virtual terminal, that seems to be the best solution
01:55:20  <mbalho>thl0: cause i dont really wanna make the app really complex by adding multiple files for html and css
01:55:25  <mbalho>thl0: i kind of like that its 100% JS
01:55:30  <mbalho>keeps things simple
01:56:06  <thl0>yep, you could put a placeholder <div id=#terminal> though and let people know that they could print to that
01:56:25  <thl0>using that simple hypernal snippet
01:56:25  <mbalho>but how would they get the JS interface to that?
01:56:45  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: no way yet but I'm open to putting that in, not sure what ye standard way of cache busting here should be though
01:57:14  <thl0>actually you are right, just collect some snippets people could use -- one of them adds a hypernal to the page like in the example
01:57:29  <thl0>you could document.create the element to hold the terminal in the snippet
01:57:31  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: maybe when you install a specific version it will check to see if thats the new latest version
01:57:47  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: it does this for @latest already
01:58:13  <thl0>mbalho: somehow you'd need to provide people with a hook to reroute stdout and stderr
01:58:25  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: earlier when thl0 published the new version of hypernal it wasnt getting the new version until i killed the database and restarted the cdn
01:58:35  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: sounds like a bug
01:59:00  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: probably it's not special casing @latest and checks cache for that, which has a ttl of about a day I think?
01:59:17  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: we could either decrease the cache time to more like an hour, or special case latest
01:59:55  <thl0>mbalho: got the example to work by changing one line in my example
01:59:58  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: hmm both of those are sucky, how about a special api that just force upgrades?
02:00:03  <thl0>term.appendTo(document.body);
02:00:10  <mbalho>thl0: yea
02:00:27  <thl0>awesome :)
02:02:38  <thl0>mbalho: this works too: console.log = term.writeln.bind(term);
02:02:50  <thl0>now if you give me access to process.stdout we are all set
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02:11:42  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: and what special api do you recommend?
02:12:03  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: almost thinking I should implement cache headers a la ecstatic
02:16:39  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: i think if it cached everything by default but if you could hit something like modulename/update to force a npm sync
02:16:55  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: i dunno if theres a better way to do it
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02:22:14  <Raynos>dominictarr: I was thinking about level map reduce and how you recompute a subset of the changed tree on a removal for the life stuff
02:23:21  <Raynos>dominictarr: I dont think you took that approach in the end
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02:32:10  <mbalho>http://requirebin.com/embed?gist=5945838 :D
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03:52:40  <nexxy>mbalho, nodebotsday n stuff
03:52:48  <nexxy>substack, nodebotsday ok?
03:53:00  <substack>what what
03:53:04  <nexxy>27th
03:53:10  <nexxy>this month!
03:53:27  <nexxy>a day of javascripts and robots and hardware and fun
03:53:34  <nexxy>nodebotsday.com
03:54:14  <nexxy>https://github.com/nodebots/nodebotsday#san-francisco
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04:40:19  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: is there a way to implement bops on top of Object for compatibility reasons?
04:40:49  <chrisdickinson>mbalho: Object or Array?
04:40:53  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: either
04:41:22  <chrisdickinson>so, i left that out, primarily because at that point you're best off using the buffer-browserify shim
04:41:37  <chrisdickinson>you either get [] indexing or cheap slicing, but not both
04:41:46  <chrisdickinson>(if you base on array or object)
04:41:54  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: i think for browsers without typed arrays it would be cool if bops still worked
04:42:06  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: (well, substack brought it up, im just relaying it)
04:42:40  <chrisdickinson>the hard part is the subarray semantics, as aforementioned :(
04:43:06  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: well it can be really slow
04:43:11  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: cause youre already in a slow browser
04:44:34  <chrisdickinson>well, it introduces different semantics -- `B = A.slice(2); B[0] = 3; A[2] === 3`
04:45:06  <chrisdickinson>you *could* fix that by making all gets/sets go through bops
04:45:33  <mbalho>ok this commit breaks JSONStream in the browser https://github.com/creationix/jsonparse/commit/fba4e12ddaa502abf37067e23232a6e12ac3f09b
04:46:13  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: yea i figured since its already an abstraction layer then an old browser support layer would make sense
04:46:56  <chrisdickinson>i waffle on it, since it would work some of the time, but with really, really hard to reproduce errors some other percentage of the time
04:47:22  <chrisdickinson>(and hard to reproduce errors that manifest in other folk's libraries, in old, already-hard-to-debug browsers)
04:47:49  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: yea
04:54:54  <st_luke>is there a non-crappy peerconnection broker server on npm?
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05:07:52  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: do you know if there is any semantic difference between typedarray.subarray and buffer.slice?
05:08:14  <chrisdickinson>mbalho: for uint8arrays, there shouldn't be
05:08:20  <chrisdickinson>well
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05:08:34  <chrisdickinson>i'm not sure about the oob behavior -- i think they both barf errors
05:08:35  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: im trying to figure out why this commit breaks jsonstream so badly https://github.com/creationix/jsonparse/commit/fba4e12ddaa502abf37067e23232a6e12ac3f09b
05:09:12  <chrisdickinson>mbalho: is buffer a typedarray?
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05:09:35  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: yep before that commit you could just pass in a Uint8Array and it would work beautifully
05:09:43  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: but after it hangs after the first chunk
05:09:54  <chrisdickinson>mbalho: uint8array.toString() === '"[object Uint8Array]"'
05:09:55  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: and you have to do chunk.subarray = chunk.slice to make it not throw an error
05:10:05  <chrisdickinson>which is not true of buffers
05:10:19  <chrisdickinson>http://npm.im/to-utf8
05:10:36  <mbalho>ohhh
05:11:19  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: does that module work with typed arrays?
05:11:39  <chrisdickinson>it should
05:11:49  <chrisdickinson>that's how bops.to(buf, 'utf8') works
05:11:52  <mbalho>cool
05:12:03  <chrisdickinson>brbrb.
05:12:12  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: im trying to figure out how to get jsonparse working again with plain ole typed arrays
05:14:26  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: i think if we used bops it would do it, but then it wouldnt work in browsers that dont support typed arrays
05:14:49  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: buffer-browserify works in old browsers but doesnt take advantage of typed arrays
05:16:25  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: couldnt you just give bops a buffer-browserify instance? is it composable like that?
05:19:00  <chrisdickinson>depends on if buffer-browserify supports array indexing now
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05:21:06  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: it got published but hasnt been updated in browserify yet
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05:23:52  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: ah actually it should be working now
05:23:57  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: with a fresh install
05:24:38  <chrisdickinson>in that case to-utf8 should work swimmingly
05:24:52  <chrisdickinson>(or bops.to(buf, 'utf8'))
05:25:05  <chrisdickinson>(though it would probably be overkill to include all of bops)
05:25:12  <mbalho>chrisdickinson: yea
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05:29:53  <substack>chrisdickinson: just tested, the version of buffer-browserify that browserify currently has supports indexing!
05:30:01  <substack>and I added a test to browserify's suite
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05:52:13  <mbalho>shama: WOOHOO https://github.com/shama/browser-module-cache
05:52:29  <shama>mbalho: hehe
05:52:39  <shama>almost got a PR for you
05:52:42  <mbalho>w00t
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06:40:42  <juliangruber>mbalho: haven't run the level-fs testsuite on level.js yet, only memdown in the browser…but so far it works in brash
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10:47:40  <substack>just set up https://www.gittip.com/testling/
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11:49:37  <substack>sneak peak: http://staging.ci.testling.com/profesh
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15:08:53  <Domenic_>so cute
15:09:00  <Domenic_>i want a testling sticker
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15:19:46  <Domenic_>substack: you should give someone with OCD collaborator rights on browserify just so we can close all the stupid issues that people raise. There are two about sourceMappingURL that don't even belong in that repo :(
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16:30:46  <mikolalysenko>I feel like this must have been done before, but I didn't know the right keywords to search for: https://github.com/mikolalysenko/lazy-property
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18:41:21  <mbalho>substack: +1 to more issue goaltenders on browserify
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19:22:49  <mbalho>https://npmjs.org/package/ansi-html-stream
19:22:51  <mbalho>kewl package
19:38:59  <mbalho>thlorenz: do you know if hypernal plays nicely with charm? http://localhost:8080/?gist=5951831
19:39:10  <mbalho>thlorenz: i tracked the error down to this https://github.com/jesusabdullah/ansimator/blob/master/lib/ansimator.js#L36-L38
19:39:27  <mbalho>thlorenz: which calls this with null https://github.com/thlorenz/hypernal/blob/master/lib/write.js#L32
19:39:31  <mbalho>(i think)
19:39:56  <thlorenz>mbalho: never used it with charm
19:40:31  <thlorenz>mbalho: you could add some guard for null there to keep it from blowing up
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20:01:26  <mbalho>thlorenz: oooh 'white-space: pre;' is pretty important for hypernal to show up correctly
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20:02:26  <thlorenz>mbalho: not entirely sure what you mean, but love to take a PR if that fixes things
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20:02:31  <mbalho>thlorenz: its just css
20:02:35  <thlorenz>ah
20:02:42  <mbalho>thlorenz: but it makes whitespace take up space
20:02:48  <thlorenz>but maybe we should add that to the example?
20:02:49  <mbalho>thlorenz: otherwise whitespace gets collapsed
20:02:56  <thlorenz>ah - cool
20:03:05  <thlorenz>had no idea that existed ;)
20:03:14  <mbalho>thlorenz: v
20:03:16  <mbalho>oops
20:03:17  <mbalho>thlorenz: http://requirebin.com/?gist=5952023
20:03:30  <mbalho>thlorenz: take out the white-space line and see what happens
20:05:17  <thlorenz>mbalho: clear difference :) - I'll have to inject this when I create the terminal so you don't even have to declare it in css
20:05:23  <thlorenz>mbalho: look for a patch tonite or so
20:05:42  <mbalho>thlorenz: i think all the 4 style lines should be in there
20:05:52  <mbalho>thlorenz: well i guess it depends
20:06:15  <thlorenz>mbalho: if I hardcode them it's hard to override them (you'd have to use important! everywhere)
20:06:23  <mbalho>oh right
20:06:51  <thlorenz>mbalho: so maybe better to just include the white-space thing and include the other ones in a default.css or so
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20:13:22  <soldair>anyone know of a module for streaming+unzipping only specific chunks of gzipped files? i was going to start experimenting though it may be silly
20:14:18  <mbalho>http://requirebin.com/?gist=5952100
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20:15:46  <mbalho>i totally forgot i made http://civicapi.com/
20:15:47  <mbalho>lol
20:16:07  <mbalho>i googled for 'open civic data jsonp' and it was the first result and i was like 'oh yea! i thought i let that domain expire!'
20:18:05  <shama>lol
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20:35:30  <st_luke>mikeal: am I no longer going to be able to rent that forklift?
20:35:48  <mikeal>you were never gonna rent that forklift luk
20:35:51  <mikeal>:P
20:36:02  <st_luke>maybe
20:36:13  <st_luke>have you ever climbed a billboard? the ladders don't start for 10 feet.
20:36:15  <st_luke>it's a huge pain in the ass
20:36:39  <mikeal>a step ladder would work a lot better to solve that tahn a forklift
20:38:46  <st_luke>I guess I gotta get a jobsite now
20:38:48  <st_luke>fwiw
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20:51:24  <st_luke>I don't even care about eggs
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21:00:03  <mbalho>thlorenz: term.term.element.style['white-space'] = 'pre' doesnt work in firefox but term.term.element.setAttribute('style', 'white-space: pre;') does, weird
21:03:02  <shama>mbalho: this one -> https://github.com/rvagg/node-memdown ?
21:03:24  <mbalho>shama: yea, it should work in browser (i think)
21:03:32  <shama>cool
21:19:13  <mikolalysenko>is there a simple way to append css to a page dynamically?
21:19:22  <mikolalysenko>like I want to statically load a css file using brfs
21:19:35  <mikolalysenko>and then once the script loads stick it in the page, appending to the main css stuff
21:20:04  <mikolalysenko>maybe this is a bad idea...
21:20:25  <dlmanning>mikolalysenko: trumpet?
21:20:52  <mikolalysenko>no, I don't want to transform/template
21:20:54  <mikolalysenko>just style stuff
21:21:14  <mikolalysenko>basically I don't want to create a separate html document for my app
21:21:24  <mikolalysenko>I'd rather just load up the whole things from beefy...
21:21:38  <mikolalysenko>though I am probably making this more complicated than it needs to be
21:21:42  <thlorenz>mbalho: I'll play around with both and see what works in all browsers
21:22:18  <mikolalysenko>ok. I think I'll just use a static page. thinking about it, this is pretty silly
21:22:33  <dlmanning>mikolalysenko: Out of curiosity, are you using beefy's live reload?
21:22:39  <jcrugzz>mikolalysenko: hyperglue/hyperstream may be useful
21:22:42  <mikolalysenko>yeah
21:23:11  <mikolalysenko>I had my own beefy-like thing long ago, but have since switched to using chrisdickinson's
21:23:18  <dlmanning>Did you see that it can stick the live reload script dynamically into static html?
21:23:31  <mikolalysenko>ah, I did not know that
21:23:37  <thlorenz>mbalho: feel free to comment here: https://github.com/thlorenz/hypernal/issues/2
21:23:50  <mikolalysenko>that was part of my rationale for having everything done dynamically...
21:24:06  <chrisdickinson>i need to update to the latest trumpet there
21:24:11  <mikolalysenko>ok, I'll take another look at it. probably static html will work then
21:24:25  <dlmanning>chrisdickinson: It uses htmlparser2
21:24:32  <chrisdickinson>yeah
21:24:33  <dlmanning>would you rather it use trumpet?
21:24:43  <chrisdickinson>dlmanning: yeah, trumpet just updated and fixed a bunch of things
21:24:53  <chrisdickinson>(i think you tried *right* before trumpet was updated)
21:24:58  <dlmanning>I did
21:25:09  <thlorenz>yay, first day starting to contribute code at my new job => one more project using browserify ^^ substack Domenic_
21:25:23  <dlmanning>I could rejigger script injector to use trumpet
21:25:27  <Domenic_>thlorenz: nice! you convinced 'em?
21:25:58  <thlorenz>Domenic_: yep, there was a project with fairly small code base and I just refactored it :)
21:26:15  <thlorenz>precompiled handlebars and everything -- worked right out of the box
21:26:22  <thlorenz>refactoring the tests now
21:26:46  <thlorenz>Domenic_: hope that will be the POC for future projects to come
21:27:35  <jcrugzz>thlorenz: easily, cause it will make the most sense from a logical standpoint ;)
21:28:05  <thlorenz>jcrugzz: :) I just had to prove that all requirements can be met
21:28:19  <jcrugzz>exactly, gotta play the game
21:28:41  <thlorenz>:) so bromote worked out in this case although it enables an antipattern ;)
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21:31:24  <mbalho>thlorenz: congrats
21:32:03  <thlorenz>mbalho: thanks :) main argument was that npm and browserify enable separating the app into multiple small self reliant apps
21:32:17  <jcrugzz>thlorenz: one step at a time, to the inevitable victory of course
21:32:24  <thlorenz>:)
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21:54:39  <mbalho>shama: oh yea split screen button would be awesome
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21:55:59  <shama>mbalho: yeah! Ive been using a split screen setup to live edit exploring ndarrays... super helpful
21:56:15  <mbalho>nice
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22:12:42  <substack>chrisdickinson: http://superbigtree.tumblr.com/post/54873453939/introduction-to-browserify
22:12:52  <substack>beefy will be in a book soon it seems!
22:13:40  <mbalho>w00t
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22:20:16  <chrisdickinson>whoa awesome
22:20:39  <jesusabdullah>very cool.
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22:23:03  <jcrugzz>the message will slowly propagate
22:23:09  <jcrugzz>and this is awesome
22:27:26  <jesusabdullah>indeed
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23:13:09  <mbalho>jlord: im gonna try out https://github.com/jnordberg/wintersmith/
23:18:21  <mbalho>jesusabdullah: can you npm publish browserify-cdn?
23:18:50  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: yeah, was mostly waiting for some sense of "stability" but I suppose we're there now
23:18:54  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: gimme 10 mins
23:26:27  <jesusabdullah>mbalho: published
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23:52:58  <shama>mbalho: are you one of the organizers for nodebotsday in sf?
23:54:32  <mbalho>http://requirebin.com/embed?gist=5953495&q=json
23:54:34  <mbalho>shama: nope
23:57:09  <substack>mbalho: module-deps is now deterministic
23:57:29  <substack>next up, adding deterministic JSON.stringify() to browser-pack
23:58:27  <mbalho>w00t