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00:04:10  <rch>let's say i want to take a javascript module, find all the variables in it which are like
00:04:14  <rch>var thing = require('thing');
00:04:29  <mbalho>require('detective')
00:04:34  <rch>and generate a json mapping of {<variable name>: <path of the require>}
00:04:34  <mbalho>will tell you all the require statements
00:04:44  <mbalho>then you can require.resolve each module name
00:04:44  <rch>cool but i think i need the variable name too
00:04:52  <rch>within the local scope of the module
00:04:54  <mbalho>ah
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00:06:37  <rch>i swear i saw something that provided like an event emitter interface to parsing the ast
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00:46:15  <dominictarr>substack: mbalho this guy http://thomasbacklund.com/
00:46:48  <dominictarr>oh, hes is sweden
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01:00:20  <Raynos>bash drives me crazy
01:00:23  <Raynos>Its hard to debug
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01:15:38  <defunctzombie>don't use bash
01:17:41  <substack>bash is great for what it's good at
01:17:47  <substack>don't use it for things it's not good at
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01:24:04  <Raynos>I'm trying to write a bash script to automate github usage ( https://gist.github.com/Raynos/52e87b057961f093b78f ) but It's buggy :(
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01:32:22  <thl0>Raynos: we should prob convert all these shell scripts into proper node modules using https://npmjs.org/package/gh
01:32:45  <Raynos>thl0: first I want to fix pr_github
01:32:54  <Raynos>maybe I should just rewrite it using node
01:33:04  <thl0>yep
01:33:18  <thl0>I'm thinking nstart could also be done that way
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01:33:36  <thl0>it can even depend on travisify and testlingify, so it's a one step setup
01:34:14  <thl0>Raynos: it may even be smart and try to figure out uname and pwd from the config of either one of those
01:35:16  <Raynos>I see
01:35:27  <thl0>gh is nice because it's well documented, can't say that about the underlying gitub wrapper: https://npmjs.org/package/github
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01:55:59  <thl0>Raynos: what's this toArray thing doing in your write-stream thing?
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04:56:51  <Raynos>thl0: things!
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05:43:51  <jesusabdullah>Okay guys epic lulz https://plus.google.com/111725611310371673733/about?gl=us&hl=en
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07:14:51  <substack>hij1nx: why does paramify use a module global for its state?
07:15:44  <substack>wouldn't function paramify (url) { return function match(vurl) { ... } } be better?
07:16:00  <substack>and that way for whatever reason you could have 2 of them at once in the same app
07:16:07  <substack>so one reason why the module global might be very very bad
07:16:17  <substack>is that if you use a module that uses paramify
07:16:37  <substack>its internal state will interfere with your own expected state, causing a confusion explosion
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07:20:06  <substack>https://github.com/hij1nx/paramify/issues/1
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07:27:37  <substack>Raynos: great find @ tape patch
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08:15:31  <Raynos>substack: o/
08:16:46  <substack>I've mentioned this before but I really think tiny modules need better "branding"
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08:17:26  <substack>I started a prototype server using the testling redesign markdown tile grid approach
08:17:36  <substack>and wrote down some ideas for initial topics
08:18:40  <substack>big things like meteor and rails give a lot of value in how they present information about what they let you do
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08:19:15  <substack>I think we can copy this documentationa approach while keeping all the pieces independent and separable
08:19:19  <substack>voxeljs style
08:19:31  <substack>only moreso since there isn't a unifying voxel-engine
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08:20:51  <substack>although browserify and npm are somewhat fundamental to the structure of this approach
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09:30:12  <jesusabdullah>shit, I realized I have job hunt related email threads that are 3 days old >_<
09:30:17  <jesusabdullah>uuugh I'm really bad at this
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09:43:10  <substack>true reality http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKC21wDarBo
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09:54:24  <jesusabdullah>lol "gay texas"
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10:28:34  <kessler>yellow :)
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11:09:20  <ins0mnia>ralphtheninja: !!
11:15:51  <ralphtheninja>ins0mnia: hut hut
11:16:02  <ralphtheninja>in sthlm now? :)
11:16:03  <ins0mnia>ralphtheninja: /whois ins0mnia !!
11:17:26  <ralphtheninja>I dont want to crash the irc network
11:17:28  <ralphtheninja>lol
11:17:30  <ins0mnia>lol
11:17:55  <ins0mnia>ralphtheninja: I went to some coop here at Tyresö I swear everyone was looking at me like an alien because I was speaking norwegian lol
11:18:22  <ins0mnia>ralphtheninja: could also because I bought like 8kg meat - for my dogs lol
11:18:26  <ralphtheninja>yeah "oh no, wtf are the norwegians doing HERE?" :)
11:19:00  <ins0mnia>ralphtheninja: yeah I was telling the woman "kan jeg få en pose", in norwegian it sounds like "pooose" and swedish "påse" people were like WTF lol
11:19:16  <ralphtheninja>if you buy a lot of meat you blend in with all the other carnivore swedes
11:19:16  <ins0mnia>A norwegian around us! run for your life lol
11:19:29  <ralphtheninja>hehe
11:19:57  <ins0mnia>I'm going to print a stackvm logo on a flag and install it here
11:20:08  <ins0mnia>the region is an occupied zone now!!!
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11:20:36  <ralphtheninja>the plastic bags are always at the beginning of the register thingie and they cost money
11:20:43  <ralphtheninja>hahaha
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11:21:14  <ins0mnia>I used like 12 plastic bags the woman said just take it from there
11:21:21  <ins0mnia>didn't know I had to pay for it, cuz I didn't
11:21:22  <ins0mnia>lol
11:21:54  <ralphtheninja>thats why they gave you the evil eye, it's like 10 fucking kronors man!!!11
11:21:56  <ins0mnia>I couldn't use a wagon because I didn't have 5kr coin on me hehe
11:22:11  <ins0mnia>no no I bought half of the shop!!
11:22:19  <ins0mnia>if they are to complain about 10kr I will give her everything back
11:22:36  <ins0mnia>and tell her "you swedeees are cheaaaaaaaaaaaap" hehehe
11:22:40  <ralphtheninja>no no .. in sweden we never complain directly
11:22:52  <ralphtheninja>we complain AFTER the customer has left
11:22:58  <ins0mnia>haha
11:23:03  <ralphtheninja>"oh did you see that customer the other day?"
11:23:10  <ins0mnia>ok then, I'll give her 10kr next time plus 50% interest :)
11:23:29  <ins0mnia>"did you see that moron the other day" :)
11:23:31  <ralphtheninja>"he didn't pay for his plastic bags .. and he was norwegian too"
11:23:36  <ins0mnia>lol
11:24:37  <ins0mnia>and the moron landlord I WARNED him not to knock on the car window while my wife is in it
11:24:41  <ins0mnia>he still did
11:24:45  <ins0mnia>so what happens?
11:24:51  <ins0mnia>two dobermans that want to bite his ass
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11:30:11  <ralphtheninja>hehe of course
11:30:25  <ralphtheninja>he wont knock again :)
11:30:33  <ins0mnia>ralphtheninja: nope :)
11:31:00  <ins0mnia>ralphtheninja: anyway we should meet up soon, whenever you ready :)
11:37:11  <ralphtheninja>ins0mnia: of course :)
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12:20:11  <hij1nx>substack: heh, it was pretty late at night, i think i'll change that right now :)
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18:18:15  <creationix>what do you guys think about gittip?
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18:26:14  <gildean>creationix: i'll have some, thanks for asking
18:26:48  <mbalho>creationix: i like it
18:27:16  <creationix>but nobody making a living off gittip alone
18:27:20  <creationix>it's just extra money
18:31:49  <st_luke>you might be able to live off it if you are in eastern europe in a tiny apartment and do not have a family
18:31:55  <st_luke>but you would have to get like a thousand a month
18:32:33  <mikolalysenko>I think it is a bit too much of a hassle to set up and send cash, just like everything else involving $$$ on the internet
18:32:43  <mikolalysenko>which is why the cash in there is so small
18:33:09  <st_luke>i dont really like the recurring monthly thing that much
18:33:29  <mikolalysenko>also I don't think most of the people getting cash on git tip really need it, they are typically really famous guys who have stable jobs/speaking gigs
18:34:39  <mikolalysenko>the concept is nice though, but I don't think it really seems to be working in its present incarnation
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18:35:53  <mbalho>mikolalysenko: yea i feel the same actually
18:36:36  <mikolalysenko>mbalho: yeah, it also just looks a little douchey with these rich guys getting these tips from random people over the internet
18:37:02  <mikolalysenko>and it doesn't help that they have a high score board for tips, turning it into some kind of weird competitive thing...
18:37:31  <st_luke>they should ban yehuda katz from being able to receive money
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18:40:26  <mikolalysenko>I think for funding open source a better solution would be more structured, like a grant/proposal writing process
18:40:59  <chapel>how about a benefactor model
18:41:08  <mikolalysenko>that could work too
18:41:10  <chapel>distributed benefactor model
18:41:38  <mikolalysenko>like kickstarter, but for hacking random stuff
18:41:46  <chapel>so larger reoccurring sums from multiple people/orgs
18:42:10  <chapel>I don't think it should be indefinite like gittip
18:42:19  <chapel>but more, you set a total amount, and it is spread over X months
18:42:23  <mikolalysenko>really you can look at how things work in academia for inspiration I think
18:42:38  <chapel>eh, academia is broken imo
18:42:44  <mikolalysenko>even though there is a lot that is fucked up in that space, they have been dealing with basically the same stuff for centuries
18:42:49  <chapel>the whole grant system is not really ideal
18:43:03  <mikolalysenko>well, it is a solution and it is sustainable to some extent
18:43:09  <mikolalysenko>but I agree that it is kind of shitty
18:43:34  <mikolalysenko>I think though that there are a lot of parallels between open source software and academic research
18:43:51  <mikolalysenko>both are intellectual undertakings for the collective good of society
18:43:59  <mikolalysenko>and I think that similar funding models should work for both
18:44:47  <mikolalysenko>and even though grants are admittedly imperfect, it is still better than something like gittip which will just degenerate into a winner take all popularity contest
18:45:23  <mikolalysenko>review processes like the ones at the nsf actually do a pretty good job selecting proposals, but I will agree that we should always strive for something better
18:45:31  <chapel>I think the problem is, most people write open source software for personal reasons
18:45:34  <chapel>not for money
18:45:49  <chapel>though there are people that write it for their company and are lucky to be able to open source it
18:45:58  <mikolalysenko>chapel: well, people do academic research for personal reasons too
18:46:12  <mikolalysenko>and it is the same with industrial research, sometimes people get to publish it if their employers are generous
18:46:25  <mikolalysenko>the wages in academia are not very competitive, it isn't about money
18:46:36  <mikolalysenko>but you need some funding to sustain it or else you can't eat
18:46:44  <gwenbell>interesting to be hanging out here and in #gittip at the same moment
18:46:47  <chapel>mikolalysenko: of course, but I think the mindset about open source is not ready for funding like in academia
18:47:08  <mikolalysenko>chapel: true, most people doing open source are dilettantes or hobbyists
18:47:09  <chapel>maybe its just because open source is so new
18:47:16  <mikolalysenko>it is kind of like scientific research in the early days
18:47:32  <mikolalysenko>there are a few professionals doing it, but they are kind of blazing new trails
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18:47:42  <mikolalysenko>also some academics are starting to get into it
18:47:46  <chapel>I guess I worry about bringing money and/or something like grants, because it adds layers to the process
18:47:59  <chapel>and can further dissuade people from participating
18:48:03  <mikolalysenko>grants would only be if you want to make a living doing only open source
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18:48:10  <mikolalysenko>I think you could still participate regardles
18:48:15  <mikolalysenko>*s
18:48:16  <chapel>I honestly would not consider doing academic research as a hobby
18:48:23  <mikolalysenko>chapel: why not?
18:48:25  <chapel>but for me open source is just natural
18:48:33  <chapel>mikolalysenko: idk, I didn't goto college
18:48:39  <chapel>so its foreign to me
18:48:52  * thl0joined
18:48:58  <chapel>obviously thats more about me than academic research
18:49:20  <mikolalysenko>if you find stuff interesting there is nothing stopping you from working on it, and there is no rule that says you have to be a professor to write papers and go to conferences
18:49:21  <chapel>I think that kind of misconception would be bad to open source over the long term
18:49:33  <mbalho>mikolalysenko: i think gittip is aware of its inherent flaws, note how users can tip other users
18:50:02  <mbalho>mikolalysenko: so they can tweak the app to encourage people like john resig to act as domain experts who can identify developers who need funding
18:50:36  <chapel>mikolalysenko: the main problem I see in a grant like system, is requiring a certain amount of credibility (usually through credentials of some sort) to participate
18:51:02  <mikolalysenko>mbalho: that could work. though right now the money in gittip is so small that it barely even matters
18:51:30  <chapel>being someone who didn't goto college, I am hyper aware of the stigma of not having a degree in software engineering and programming in general
18:51:33  * clone1018joined
18:51:43  * whit537joined
18:51:48  <mikolalysenko>chapel: it is true, but the same is true for any time you are asking for money for a project. you have to demonstrate credibility before people will take you seriously if you say you are going to do something
18:52:16  <chapel>mikolalysenko: that shouldn't always be the case for open source though
18:52:25  <mikolalysenko>chapel: I agree generally that too much emphasis is placed on degrees, but I think that things are slowly changing
18:52:48  <mikolalysenko>chapel: absolutely, if you have good contributions you should be able to refer to your work and not try to beat people over the head with a meaningless piece of paper
18:52:57  <chapel>mikolalysenko: I work for walmart labs, and I feel like the only person without a degree, most of my colleagues have masters or phds
18:53:11  <whit537>chapel: Did we meet at Waza?
18:53:17  <whit537>I met someone from Walmart Labs there.
18:53:19  <chapel>whit537: nope
18:53:28  <whit537>k
18:53:29  <chapel>not that I know of
18:53:31  <chapel>whats waza?
18:53:35  <whit537>Hehe. :)
18:53:37  <whit537>Heroku's dev conf.
18:53:58  <whit537>mikolalysenko: Gittip
18:54:02  <whit537>derp
18:54:13  <whit537>'s not going to degenerate into a popularity contest if I can help it.
18:54:54  <mikolalysenko>whit537: that's reassuring, but how do you plan to stop it?
18:54:57  <mbalho>whit537: i like the newer communities feature
18:54:58  <chapel>I like the idea of gittip, I think its a good start where others have kind of failed
18:55:20  <mbalho>whit537: i was at githubs offices yesterday saying how i wish there was a similar thing on github
18:55:21  <clone1018>mikolalysenko: hiding amounts from the homepage, showing new tips instead, or whatever, there's various ideas so far
18:55:26  <whit537>It's something we talk a lot about, e.g.: https://github.com/gittip/www.gittip.com/issues/216
18:55:31  <whit537>"make Gittip work for behind-the-sceners"
18:55:41  <chapel>maybe instead of tipping just one person, you can tip a project, it can be spread out over contributors
18:55:49  <whit537>mbalho: Did you get any bites?
18:55:50  <thl0>st_luke: actually if you live in Brasov, Romania $600/month may be enough ;)
18:56:16  <whit537>mikolalysenko: Basic plan is to build better features for groups/projects/teams.
18:56:32  <whit537>We're piloting with Gittip itself right now: https://www.gittip.com/Gittip/split.html
18:56:32  <mbalho>whit537: theyre currently working on a rewrite of the Organizations feature, so the ship kind of already sailed, but they werent opposed to it. also theres gonna be a new Discussions tab in repos soon
18:56:53  <whit537>mbalho: Word, discussions being different than issues?
18:57:05  <whit537>Organizations needs a rewrite, happy to hear that's underway.
18:57:28  <mbalho>whit537: i dunno what discussions will look like but they'll be in addition to issues
18:57:34  <whit537>chapel: Exactly. Tipping projects.
18:57:43  <whit537>So communities is >= 150 members.
18:57:53  <whit537>The plan is to build out projects for groups of 2 - 149.
18:58:05  <whit537>We've already got projects receiving on Gittip:
18:58:14  <whit537>https://www.gittip.com/JSFiddle/
18:58:27  <whit537>https://www.gittip.com/tastejs/
18:58:32  <whit537>https://www.gittip.com/readthedocs/
18:58:33  <whit537>etc.
18:58:49  <whit537>Need to build that out more.
18:59:19  <gwenbell>glad you stopped in chad
19:00:12  * jolissjoined
19:00:23  <whit537>:)
19:00:33  <mikolalysenko>whit537: interesting, I hope it works
19:00:46  <whit537>mikolalysenko: Thanks, me too! :)
19:00:49  <mikolalysenko>whit537: do you guys have plans to make it easier to put money into gittip in the first place?
19:01:00  <whit537>Options besides credit cards, you mean?
19:01:10  <mikolalysenko>yeah
19:01:19  <mikolalysenko>also how do you guys deal with charge backs/fraud/whatever
19:01:32  <whit537>ACH debits are within reach.
19:01:45  <whit537>PayPal / Google Checkout / Amazon are much less likely.
19:01:59  <whit537>We have a fraud review dashboard.
19:02:14  <whit537>I whitelist all new cc/bank accounts.
19:02:33  <mikolalysenko>hmm, that seems like it would be difficult to scale
19:02:42  <whit537>We had a spate of fraud last fall, I rooted it out and refunded everyone and all the chargebacks have been successfully contested by our payment provider, Balanced.
19:03:10  <whit537>All the feedback I'm getting is that this is how it's done.
19:03:17  <whit537>As you scale the dashboard becomes richer.
19:03:21  <whit537>More signals.
19:03:27  <mikolalysenko>whit537: yeah that sounds like a headache. I think that systems like gittip are especially susceptible to this kind of thing
19:03:27  <whit537>Trust becomes a float instead of an int.
19:03:39  <whit537>Sure, moving money == fraus.
19:03:43  <whit537>s/aus/aud
19:03:45  <whit537>Name of the game.
19:04:00  <whit537>Fortunately we're not the first to have to figure out how to manage it. :)
19:04:22  <mikolalysenko>the sort of obvious thing I guess would be to create a few gittip accounts, have them all push money to some account; have that guy cash out then chargeback all the transferred funds
19:04:49  <whit537>mikolalysenko: https://www.gittip.com/about/fraud/2012-11-05.html
19:04:53  <mikolalysenko>which is kind of the same problem paypal/amazon/google/etc. have
19:05:54  <whit537>Indeed.
19:06:12  <venportman>Is anyone wondering here how to make more tips on Gittips? Is that a question?
19:06:30  <whit537>Do awesome shit. That's my strategy. :)
19:06:48  <venportman>Whit537: I like your strategy. :)
19:06:50  <whit537>Kind of almost working a little bit so far. :)
19:07:02  <mikolalysenko>whit537: sounds like a great way to go!
19:07:42  <mikolalysenko>whit537: I hope you guys succeed, though I am worried for you about the scammers
19:07:56  <mikolalysenko>I can only see it getting worse as gittip gets bigger
19:08:08  <whit537>Sure, we'll deal.
19:08:16  <whit537>I just flagged a bunch this past week, actually.
19:08:22  <whit537>First spate since November.
19:08:52  * jibayjoined
19:08:57  <mikolalysenko>the bigger problem is the crazy credit card charge back system
19:09:11  <whit537>creationix: Did you see we're working on integrating Gittip with Bountysource?
19:09:21  <venportman>whit537: have you had chargebacks?
19:09:26  <paul_irish>whit537: hows that work?
19:09:54  <whit537>paul_irish: What we have deployed today is connecting your Bountysource account on your Gittip profile.
19:09:54  <creationix>whit537: yep
19:10:17  <whit537>paul_irish: The next step is to be able to use your Gittip balance as a funding source on Bountysource.
19:10:39  <whit537>paul_irish: You can +1 here: https://github.com/gittip/www.gittip.com/issues/872.
19:10:40  <whit537>:)
19:11:15  <whit537>venportman: Yes, but they haven't hit me because I had already refunded them, and Balanced takes care of dispute resolution in that case.
19:12:00  <whit537>creationix: I agree that $10k/mo is a stretch on Gittip today.
19:12:57  <whit537>My goal atm is to get to $3k/mo or so. :)
19:16:10  * tilgovijoined
19:17:06  <whit537>Where am I, anyway? What is stackvm?
19:17:25  <mbalho>whit537: its like the node.js backchannel
19:17:34  <whit537>Word.
19:19:21  <mbalho>p.s. any mozillians in here working on the mars project with nasa?
19:19:35  <mikolalysenko>whit537: regarding fraud stuff, you may be interested in the following paper: http://davidreiley.com/papers/SpamEconomics.pdf
19:19:51  <mikolalysenko>the short answer is that basically all the money from spam comes from credit card theft
19:20:02  <mikolalysenko>but stealing credit cards by themselves is quite difficult
19:20:18  <mikolalysenko>(or not stealing them, but really get money out of them)
19:20:41  <mikolalysenko>basically because of charge backs it is hard to extract cash from a stolen card, and the owners of the card are legally not liable for any charges
19:21:00  <mikolalysenko>so the way criminals get cash out of them is that they find services (like gittip or prepaid cards)
19:21:14  <mikolalysenko>and then buy them with stolen credit cards and convert the result to liquid cash
19:21:37  <mikolalysenko>or the other option is to use a nigerian scam to get a dummy to accept the chargeback for them via a wire service
19:22:24  <whit537>Gittip isn't ideal for the use case.
19:22:28  * jcrugzzjoined
19:22:28  <mikolalysenko>(at least I think that is what that paper says, it might be the wrong link but it is from the same author)
19:22:45  <whit537>You can only unload $24 at a time, and only once a week.
19:23:00  <mikolalysenko>well, just make lots of accounts
19:23:25  <whit537>Sure, but that's easy to catch.
19:23:37  <whit537>The more likely scenario we came up with is the card validation part of the market.
19:23:51  <whit537>You get 1M cards and need to find the 10k with value left on them.
19:24:03  <st_luke>thl0: yeah, you can live to be an old person with $0 in the bank
19:24:23  <st_luke>work every day until you die
19:24:23  <whit537>You run them through Gittip and are able to recover some of the value by giving to yourself as well as innocent bystanders.
19:24:56  <mikolalysenko>whit537: that makes sense, also much harder to catch
19:25:16  <whit537>The saving grace is that we require social network accounts to login.
19:25:31  <whit537>Gittip doesn't support registering via email.
19:25:52  <whit537>Gives us *much* more signal to identify fraudsters.
19:25:57  <mikolalysenko>yeah, that is a good decision
19:34:35  * gwenbellquit
19:38:31  <jesusabdullah>Domenic_: lgtm I'll merge that in asap
19:38:41  <jesusabdullah>I gotta say getting PRs for ecstatic makes me feel warm/fuzzy
19:39:44  <mbalho>makes you feel.... ecstatic
19:39:54  <st_luke>oh
19:40:26  <Domenic_>jesusabdullah: sweet on my way to a clean chrome console when doing http-server
19:40:45  <Domenic_>BTW I noticed ecstatic has an executable, any idea how it compares to http-server which I've been using all this time?
19:40:59  <jesusabdullah>Domenic_: MUCHsmaller
19:41:00  <st_luke>doesn't http-server use ecstatic?
19:41:05  <jesusabdullah>Yes it does
19:41:18  <Domenic_>yeah so what's missing from ecstatic is i guess my question
19:41:22  <jesusabdullah>logs
19:41:47  <Domenic_>hmm maybe i can just switch to ecstatic then
19:41:59  <jesusabdullah>There might be some default configs that need riggledoggin'
19:42:05  <jesusabdullah>I think I fixed the major ones
19:42:10  <mbalho>ecstatic is my favorite
19:42:13  <jesusabdullah>if you run into any of 'em lemme know
19:46:17  <thl0>speaking of which, if you gotta serve more than just static content and wanna stay away from express/connect, what alternatives are there?
19:46:28  <thl0>i.e. some that don't have the middleware syndrom
19:46:56  <chapel>thl0: Ive been using restify, but it does have middleware
19:47:01  <chapel>its express-like
19:47:09  <chapel>but lighter/cleaner
19:47:26  <chapel>rest api focused features
19:47:52  <thl0>ok, so I could certainly use ecstatic for the html and pics (or nginx), but what would I use to serve that JSON, do authentication, sessions etc. Domenic_?
19:48:25  <Domenic_>*shrug*
19:48:29  <thl0>chapel: I'll check out restify as well
19:48:33  <chapel>thl0: also to add, ecstatic plugs in with restify very easily
19:48:37  <Domenic_>i think the middleware pattern is here to stay for http servers
19:48:50  <chapel>I don't particularly have any horse in the race, just sharing :)
19:49:03  <thl0>ok, so instead of express any alternatives? or just use express for the JSON resources?
19:49:08  <Domenic_>there are some promise-based server attempts a few people are doing, but i haven't played with them actually.
19:49:17  <Domenic_>thl0: for APIs +1 to restify.
19:49:25  <thl0>cool
19:49:33  <Domenic_>I've also heard good things about hapi, looks a bit more frameworkey i.e. less manual
19:49:38  <chapel>Domenic_: yeah, so far its been pretty nice to work with
19:49:38  * thl0types npm docs restify
19:49:40  <jesusabdullah>thl0: ecstatic works without express
19:49:53  <jesusabdullah>thl0: next callback is optional
19:50:00  <thl0>jesusabdullah: but only handles static file content right?
19:50:47  <jesusabdullah>thl0: yes, you'll need moar things
19:51:56  <thl0>got it
19:52:40  <thl0>I'll definitely will use restify for valuepack's api server
19:53:12  <chapel>thl0: I heard on nodeup that restify supports streams as well
19:53:27  <chapel>if that matters to you
19:53:31  <thl0>chapel: nice - unlike express ;)
19:53:35  <thl0>yes it does!
19:53:37  <chapel>yep
19:54:19  <creationix>I'm trying bountysource to help fund js-git. We'll see how this goes https://twitter.com/creationix/status/343093128816910336
19:54:34  <st_luke>jesusabdullah: that's more like it
19:54:43  <jesusabdullah>hahaha
19:54:51  <jesusabdullah>"jello shots? okay you got me"
19:55:32  <st_luke>I'm in it for the subway
19:55:55  <st_luke>any event that has those giant part platters with the non-customizable toppings and old tomatoes that get the taste over the entire sandwich
19:55:58  <chapel>creationix: the kickstarter wasn't enough?
19:56:06  <creationix>chapel: not hardly
19:56:11  <thl0>creationix: what are the differenced to kickstarter?
19:56:12  <creationix>git is a huge project
19:56:35  <jesusabdullah>st_luke: oh God those tomatoes
19:56:37  <jesusabdullah>st_luke: the best
19:56:46  <creationix>thl0: they specialize in open source projects.
19:56:54  <creationix>thl0: and handle stickers and tshirts for me!
19:57:07  <thl0>but the model is the same?
19:57:21  <st_luke>also, maybe they don't use rails like kickstarter does
19:57:25  <thl0>creationix: I was thinking of doing agile kickstarters for valuepack
19:57:40  * gwenbelljoined
19:57:43  <thl0>i.e. give me $5000 and I'll implement this feature
19:58:05  <thl0>then do that for every feature and the ones that don't get funding will not be implemented
19:58:13  <thl0>instead of taking a huge amount up front
20:00:31  <jesusabdullah>lol Domenic_ just use ecstatic's bin
20:01:16  <jesusabdullah>okay getting coffee, will merge PR soon
20:03:59  <creationix>thl0: sounds like fun
20:04:07  <creationix>bountysource also kinda does that
20:04:31  <thl0>not sure if I'll do it (maybe with bountysource) - wanna get it off the ground first to have something to show
20:05:54  <jesusabdullah>oh shit there are a BUNCH of PRs on ecstatic that need attending to
20:06:06  <jesusabdullah>I'm sorry everybody! You know where to find me if I don't say anything!
20:07:15  <jesusabdullah>oh crap I am VERY TIRED apparently!
20:07:21  <jesusabdullah>I was reading BROOFA's issues!!
20:08:13  <ralphtheninja>ins0mnia: ping
20:10:13  <chapel>thl0: whats valuepack?
20:11:16  <thl0>chapel: https://github.com/thlorenz/valuepack
20:11:25  <thl0>it's goals: https://github.com/thlorenz/valuepack/blob/master/goals.md
20:11:50  <chapel>thl0: sounds like something I wanted to do very early on in nodes life
20:12:02  <thl0>well better late than never ;)
20:13:13  <chapel>heh, probably a good time to do something like that, since there is a dearth of modules to compare
20:13:28  <jesusabdullah>just don't use stars
20:13:32  <jesusabdullah>stars are the most useless thing
20:13:37  <chapel>lol
20:14:06  <jesusabdullah>I need to clear out my stars
20:14:09  <thl0>exactly! I came up with the idea at nodepdx after giving my module driven development talk and talking to some peeps about how to properly decide on a module
20:14:10  <jesusabdullah>they're from my nodejitsu days
20:14:11  <chapel>use full text revues, and semantic / emotional analysis of the text
20:14:29  <thl0>jesusabdullah: valuepack will link upvotes to stars, but allow downvotes as well
20:14:38  <jesusabdullah>NOT A STORE! WASTE TIME DRIVER HERE!
20:15:08  <thl0>jesusabdullah: Don't wanna create an entire new evaluation system, rather build on top of the most popular one (which is github)
20:17:08  <jesusabdullah>thl0: Yeah, I meant npm stars, github stars are somewhat valuable
20:17:29  <ins0mnia>ralphtheninja: pong
20:17:55  <thl0>yeah npm stars are a prob. because they exist in parallel with github stars
20:18:14  <thl0>feature github is missing is vote down (i.e. not just unstar but give a neg. star)
20:18:28  <thl0>jesusabdullah: valuepack will fix that among other thins
20:20:16  <thl0>I'm actually smuggling substack's beep boop stuff into some enterprise code (hidden inside some tests) :)
20:21:06  <thl0>i.e. Assert.AreEqual("beep", ...)
20:21:07  <mbalho>lol
20:23:10  <substack>github should have netflix-style recommendations
20:23:17  <Domenic_>substack: that'd be awesome
20:23:53  <thl0>not sure how that'd make sense
20:24:10  <thl0>I see you are using express, looks like you'd be interested in connect as well..
20:24:20  <thl0>no, I already am using express now!
20:24:50  <thl0>it's like amazon bombarding you with washing machine suggestions after you just bought one - what are the odds I need another one?
20:25:56  <Domenic_>i guess netflix does know what you've watched
20:26:13  <thl0>well and you'd be interested in similar movies
20:26:32  <thl0>but once you found a module that solves your problem, you won't need another one just like it
20:32:13  <substack>I disagree.
20:32:24  <substack>if you liked through, you might like duplexer
20:33:11  <mikolalysenko>Check it out! http://mikolalysenko.github.io/implicit-studio/index.html
20:33:20  <mikolalysenko>a basic in browser editor for implicit functions
20:33:34  <substack>implicit surfaces!
20:33:43  <thl0>substack: that is true, but this works out here because they both relate to streams
20:33:43  <mikolalysenko>all the css stuff looks like ass though since I suck at teh web :(
20:33:55  <mikolalysenko>but you can type in functions and change their colors!
20:33:57  <substack>http://substack.net/images/shader_emulation_taurus.png
20:34:01  <thl0>an npm search on 'streams' will do that already
20:34:27  <thl0>maybe npm could have trending modules/category
20:34:39  <thl0>i.e. latest popular stream modules
20:35:49  * no9quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
20:36:03  * venportmanquit (Quit: venportman)
20:36:34  <mikolalysenko>substack: cool! You should make something
20:37:35  * gwenbellquit
20:39:37  <niftylettuce>Show HN: SDK for using multiple iPhones as one big screen (mosaic.io)
20:39:41  <niftylettuce>http://news.ycombinator.com
20:41:28  <jesusabdullah>Domenic_: Pulled, publishing v0.4.4 right now
20:41:30  <jesusabdullah>Domenic_: Enjoy
20:41:42  <Domenic_>jesusabdullah: sweet, thanks!
20:42:13  <Raynos>thl0: I created npm-used a while ago
20:42:30  <Raynos>thl0: the notion of "these people X use these tools Y to solve problems by popularity" is useful
20:42:58  <Raynos>thl0: Its more about learning what other people think are really good modules.
20:43:20  <jesusabdullah>Domenic_: I'm still in awe at how hard you got shut down on that http-server issue lol
20:44:16  <jesusabdullah>Domenic_: I still have commit access to that repo, I could just fix it right now without even testing \m/
20:45:26  <Domenic_>meh i mean it shouldn't be hard to upgrade, just needs more than me doing a PR from the GitHub editor haha
20:45:26  <jesusabdullah>Domenic_: no publish rights though
20:45:41  <jesusabdullah>I was gonna do a not-so-PR from the gh editor
20:46:15  <jesusabdullah>Domenic_: seriously though, ecstatic has a bin that does most of what http-server does and you KNOW I'm at least okay at taking PRs and feedbax
20:46:42  <mikolalysenko>does anyone here have any good resources on how I can learn to make things that don't ugly in CSS? (I realize this is a vague request)
20:46:48  <jesusabdullah>oh shit, I *don't* have commit access anymore
20:47:15  <jesusabdullah>mikolalysenko: haha, I feel THAT. Unfortunately I'm almost as clueless as you are.
20:47:45  <thl0>Raynos: that is what valuepack is supposed to do in a somewhat grander scheme
20:48:39  * no9joined
20:48:46  <thl0>i.e. stars will be weighed by authors credibility, investigating popularity by category is another good measure and can prob. be added
20:49:26  <Raynos>thl0: I want to limit the search by a whitelist of authors
20:49:45  <chapel>mikolalysenko: I think the best way is to figure out how you want something to look, then make it look like that
20:49:46  <chapel>:)
20:50:06  <mikolalysenko>chapel: I see... I guess this is that artistic vision they keep talking about...
20:50:07  <thl0>I'm weighing by number of stars they have to give author's credibility (possibly other measures as well)
20:50:11  <chapel>I am still bad at design, but am doing more and more directly with just css/html (not something like bootstrap)
20:50:26  <thl0>so substack's star will be weighed much more than mine for instance
20:50:41  <jesusabdullah>ugh discovered bug in ecstatic options parsing
20:50:43  * jolissquit (Quit: joliss)
20:50:57  <chapel>a lot of the skill of design comes from knowing how to translate the spacial design to css semantics
20:53:12  <isaacs>Just made npm like 5x faster.
20:53:22  <isaacs>lockfiles. man. dangerous stuff.
20:53:29  <Raynos>isaacs: :D
20:53:33  <isaacs>they make you safe, but they can also make you CRAZY ASS SLOW if they collide.
20:53:34  <jesusabdullah>cool, so that should work way the fuck better lol
20:54:17  <jesusabdullah>so, use v0.4.5 of ecstatic >_<
21:02:14  <st_luke>oh nice, I may qualify for Italian citizenship
21:02:40  <thl0>st_luke: just b/c of your last name?
21:06:25  <jjjohnny>mikolalysenko: sweet editor
21:06:42  <st_luke>thl0: someone reached out to me and said that i may be able to get it if my grandparents had Italian citizenship
21:07:27  * ins0mniaquit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
21:07:35  <mikolalysenko>jjjohnny: thanks! the code is super simple too: https://github.com/mikolalysenko/implicit-studio
21:07:58  <st_luke>getting a real euro passport would be better than a fake one, at least i wouldnt potentially get arrested at airports
21:09:57  <thl0>st_luke: that's awesome -- only problem is you'd loose your American citizenship most likely, so it's a one way street
21:10:17  <jesusabdullah>st_luke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e90vsS7KGCc
21:11:42  <st_luke>thl0: id only go through with it if it were dual
21:11:43  <thl0>st_luke: if you had a bunch of money, you'd prob. get an honary citizenship if you invested in a business in lets say Romania
21:12:02  <thl0>in that case it could prob be dual
21:12:10  <st_luke>id rather not lose my us citizenship because its a lot easier to be undocumented in europe than in america
21:12:44  <thl0>what are you talking about? I've been undocumented for years
21:12:46  <st_luke>i mean i can just get on a train here and go to random countries and never have my passport checked
21:12:50  <thl0>kidding
21:13:08  <thl0>true
21:13:15  <thl0>also they have green borders
21:13:58  <thl0>only problem is when you are trying to go from a poorer country to a richer one (i.e. the busses from Romania where held at Hungarian border for hours)
21:14:29  <thl0>everyone was checked and the bus could only pass once the necessary bribe was collected from every passenger
21:14:39  <thl0>that was 8 years ago though
21:15:20  <st_luke>if i go by bike then it should be quicker
21:16:12  <thl0>st_luke: I thought you bought that bicycle?
21:16:21  <st_luke>yeah i did
21:16:35  <thl0>you could go unchecked forever on that
21:16:41  <st_luke>"by bike" !== "buy bike"
21:17:00  <thl0>I know, but if you don't mind pedaling ...
21:17:53  <st_luke>i could just drink a lot of espresso first
21:18:17  <Raynos>:D
21:18:23  <Raynos>europe sounds like fun
21:18:24  <thl0>sounds like a plan, and once you make it to Bulgaria, they got great coffee there
21:18:38  <st_luke>i dont think i want to go to that place
21:18:50  <thl0>y not? it's very nice!
21:19:16  <st_luke>I'm going to dresden next, I can get there in 8 hours of biking at 15 mph
21:19:35  <thl0>so you are in Leipzig then?
21:19:54  * mikolalysenkoquit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
21:19:54  <st_luke>no
21:19:58  <st_luke>I'm in berlin
21:20:06  <thl0>or still Berlin? btw 15mph is harder to do for 8hrs than you think
21:20:09  <thl0>:)
21:20:16  <st_luke>I rented a small house in the countryside in a neighboring country, it's $400/ month, so dresden is a nice middle point
21:20:35  <thl0>in Czech republic?
21:20:52  <st_luke>somewhere around there
21:21:09  <thl0>cool, Dresden is nice, lots of history
21:24:02  <jesusabdullah>where's your home turf thl0 ?
21:24:10  <jesusabdullah>also st_luke bulgaria has some sick beaches I hear
21:24:35  <thl0>jesusabdullah: used to live in Potsdam (right by Berlin)
21:24:45  <jesusabdullah>and now?
21:24:49  <thl0>NYC
21:24:52  <jesusabdullah>aha
21:25:04  <jesusabdullah>I haven't been to NYC yet though I would like to visit!
21:25:26  <thl0>lots of stuff going on here, lots of concrete - sometimes too much
21:25:45  <jesusabdullah>yeah sounds about right
21:27:19  <substack>thl0: have you seen https://github.com/jaredhanson/deamdify ?
21:27:34  <substack>curious about how it compares with your shim project
21:27:54  <thl0>substack: no haven't -- looking at it
21:29:09  <thl0>substack: interesting, it does it on the fly
21:29:45  <thl0>it won't handle any of the more advanced cases though i.e. if people use a require.config
21:30:29  <thl0>substack: I think auto refactoring to browserify once and for all is the better approach, as it also allows to fix things where the tool failed
21:31:39  <thl0>substack: so it's good for single files you wanna use in browserify, but not to transform entire projects - in a way it addresses a different concern
21:32:50  <thl0>substack: comparing to browserify-ftw btw, browserify-shim is for things like jquery that put things onto the window
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22:14:54  <st_luke>oh shit
22:15:11  <st_luke>if you have two immigrant grandparents from italy it looks like it's even easier
22:15:26  <AvianFlu>a lot of the european countries have stuff like that
22:15:31  <jesusabdullah>cool st_luke
22:15:33  <jesusabdullah>sup AvianFlu
22:15:41  <AvianFlu>I looked into irish citizenship once for myself, but I'm a little too far from the boat, so to speak
22:15:43  <jesusabdullah>i'm hangin' out with my DnD playing neighbors
22:15:44  <AvianFlu>OMG SUP jesusabdullah
22:15:57  <jesusabdullah>n2m did some opan saurce maintenance today
22:16:07  <AvianFlu>OPAN SAUCE
22:16:13  <jesusabdullah>makin' coffee
22:18:01  * thl0quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
22:19:31  <AvianFlu>jesusabdullah: QUICK ROLL TO SEE IF YOU OVERBREWED THE COFFEE
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22:23:45  <chapel>hey AvianFlu
22:23:48  <chapel>you still in the bay area?
22:23:51  <AvianFlu>nope
22:23:53  <AvianFlu>I've moved back to NY
22:23:58  <chapel>ah, too bad
22:24:03  <AvianFlu>why, are you there now?
22:24:04  <chapel>well not for you :P
22:24:07  <chapel>yeah
22:24:10  <AvianFlu>oh word
22:24:17  <chapel>working for walmart labs
22:24:18  <AvianFlu>I'll be out at some point, we'll have to drink beer, or somesuch
22:24:21  <AvianFlu>nice, I'd heard as much
22:24:22  <AvianFlu>good shit
22:24:24  <chapel>yeah for sure
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22:59:29  <Raynos>Would anyone be interested in a generators -> ES5 transpiler?
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