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| <dominictarr> | mbalho: just rewatching your lxjs talk |
| 00:03:36
| <dominictarr> | at one point you say |
| 00:04:12
| <dominictarr> | javascript rules at everthing except matrix transformations, "but nobody uses those anyway" |
| 00:04:17
| <mbalho> | dominictarr: :P |
| 00:04:31
| <jesusabdullah> | I use those |
| 00:04:51
| <dominictarr> | mbalho: uses them now that he does 3d stuff |
| 00:05:12
| <mbalho> | yea i appreciate them |
| 00:05:34
| <jesusabdullah> | I actually haven't used them in quite a long time, not since school |
| 00:05:37
| <mbalho> | also mikolalysenko probably knows a way to achieve the same results |
| 00:05:58
| <dominictarr> | vector operations are coming to gpu |
| 00:06:08
| <dominictarr> | and getting bigger and bigger |
| 00:06:21
| <dominictarr> | js will have to absorb that to keep up |
| 00:06:27
| <mbalho> | this is the bench i was referring to https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/blob/master/test/perf/perf.js#L373-L393 |
| 00:07:52
| <mbalho> | dominictarr: also re: your question yesterday about flood fill... you can build towers by looking down and jumping and placing blocks :) |
| 00:08:01
| <jesusabdullah> | yeah, that's a cool benchmark |
| 00:08:10
| <jesusabdullah> | I'm still disappointed in how the julia dudes did their package management |
| 00:08:43
| <jesusabdullah> | packages are github repos which have to be named <Package>.jl |
| 00:09:03
| <jesusabdullah> | Then the central listings of packages are in another github repo, you "publish" by pull requesting a manifest |
| 00:09:15
| <jesusabdullah> | installation happens in the repl a la R |
| 00:09:18
| <jesusabdullah> | ಠ_ಠ |
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| 00:17:16
| <dominictarr> | mbalho: unfortunatly, at the end of your talk, no body knew "log structured merge tree" |
| 00:17:56
| <dominictarr> | jesusabdullah: oh my god. that is aweful |
| 00:18:07
| <rvagg> | dominictarr: yeah, that was sad, but I'd hope that if he repeated the talk today it might get a better response |
| 00:19:17
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| 00:19:39
| <dominictarr> | I think so, he basically forsaw level-* by 6 months |
| 00:20:25
| <mbalho> | i needed the level-* stuff for a project i was working on a year or so ago |
| 00:20:44
| <mbalho> | and i got excited about it and sent a talk proposal and they let me blab |
| 00:21:12
| <dominictarr> | jesusabdullah: what a package manager can do is tightly linked to what the lang's module system is like. |
| 00:21:14
| <mbalho> | im gonna stay up late tonight hacking on levelidb or some other incarnation of it |
| 00:21:25
| <mbalho> | cause i need it for my minecraft thing |
| 00:21:39
| <dominictarr> | jesusabdullah: what is julia's like? |
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| 01:01:11
| <mikeal> | never used githubs edit/fork/pull request web flow |
| 01:01:14
| <mikeal> | kinda nice :) |
| 01:05:17
| <jesusabdullah> | dangit mr. tarr |
| 01:05:53
| <jesusabdullah> | for those of you watching at home, it's similar to python in terms of namespaced imports, and I think similar to R in that they're global per-user in the home directory |
| 01:06:48
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| 01:07:47
| <jesusabdullah> | lol someone tried to fix a bug in require.extensions |
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| 01:28:47
| <Raynos> | isaacs: what would node look like if you forked and cleaned it up? |
| 01:45:31
| <jesusabdullah> | Raynos: like ynode? :v |
| 01:46:14
| <Raynos> | whats ynode? |
| 01:46:15
| <Raynos> | yahoo node? |
| 01:48:07
| <jesusabdullah> | yeah, Doug Crock in some keynote at a yahoo event said that if HE were in charge HE'd fork node jay ess and call it ynode because joyent "couldn't be trusted" or something like that |
| 01:48:15
| <jesusabdullah> | also I mentioned you in a tweet, TAKE THAT |
| 01:48:31
| <rvagg> | Raynos: do you have or use a package like 'after' for an async map operation? |
| 01:49:06
| <substack> | imagine what ynode would look like |
| 01:49:08
| <substack> | wow. |
| 01:49:19
| <jesusabdullah> | probably suspiciously like mojito |
| 01:49:24
| <substack> | it would have first-class yui support |
| 01:49:27
| <jesusabdullah> | YES |
| 01:49:35
| <jesusabdullah> | YUI === enterprise-grade |
| 01:49:36
| <rvagg> | YNODE.fileSystem.reads.readFileSync() |
| 01:50:02
| <jesusabdullah> | substack: Horatio Caine found YOUR MODULE inside RAYNOS's package.json SO HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT |
| 01:50:25
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| 01:51:57
| <rvagg> | Raynos: nmind, found it, map-async, perfecto |
| 01:52:31
| <Raynos> | rvagg: I also have iterators which is a kitchen sink |
| 01:52:35
| <Raynos> | rvagg: also execute |
| 01:52:44
| <rvagg> | Raynos: if I wanted kitchen sink I'd go for async |
| 01:53:01
| <rvagg> | Raynos: btw, 'after' is becoming my new crutch, thanks |
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| 01:53:17
| <Raynos> | i prefer https://github.com/Colingo/execute |
| 01:53:48
| <Raynos> | jesusabdullah: what? |
| 01:54:08
| <rvagg> | Raynos: mm.. execute is like async.parallel, iterators is good tho |
| 01:54:10
| <jesusabdullah> | Raynos: H just FOLLOWED THE EVIDENCE |
| 01:54:20
| <jesusabdullah> | Raynos: watching CSI: Miami |
| 01:54:22
| <Raynos> | rvagg: execute is map-async for objects |
| 01:54:32
| <rvagg> | mm |
| 01:54:34
| <Raynos> | i barely need the array version |
| 01:54:41
| <rvagg> | all good! shall add them to my list of goto packages |
| 01:54:53
| <Raynos> | Also I started doing continuables so I have hash and list functions that do nice things like |
| 01:55:00
| <jesusabdullah> | you've not seen CSI: Miami Raynos ? |
| 01:55:15
| <Raynos> | hash := (Object<key, Continuable<T>>) => Continuable<Object<key, T>> |
| 01:55:25
| <jesusabdullah> | brohonestly that's not javascript |
| 01:55:29
| <jesusabdullah> | 4 shame |
| 01:55:31
| <Raynos> | list := ([Continuable<T>]) => Continuable<[T]> |
| 01:55:38
| <jesusabdullah> | NO HASKLES ALLOWED |
| 01:55:39
| <LOUDBOT> | MAYBE YOU GO EAT A GODDAMN BOWL OF FORREALIOS |
| 01:55:50
| <Raynos> | dude https://github.com/jden/jsig |
| 01:56:06
| <jesusabdullah> | basically I just can't handle static typing |
| 01:56:27
| <rvagg> | Object<key, Continuable<T>> = legal java |
| 01:56:29
| <jesusabdullah> | (that's actually not true) |
| 01:56:43
| <Raynos> | something just clicked in my head when I realized that things like map async were just returning arrays of continuables into a continuable containing an array |
| 01:56:48
| <jesusabdullah> | (big has built-in method argument schemas which are basically type signatures for input) |
| 01:56:57
| <jesusabdullah> | yeah those are words |
| 02:01:51
| <rvagg> | Raynos: this is unfortunately verbose -> map = require('iterators/lib/async/map') |
| 02:02:05
| <Raynos> | oh |
| 02:02:11
| <Raynos> | require("iterators").map works |
| 02:02:18
| <Raynos> | or require("iterators").mapAsync |
| 02:02:36
| <rvagg> | yeah, doesn't look quite as sexy tho! |
| 02:02:49
| <Raynos> | agreed |
| 02:02:55
| <Raynos> | but iterators is deprecated async-map works |
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| 02:03:34
| <Raynos> | feel free to PR it so it dumps all the files into the root folder :D |
| 02:03:36
| <rvagg> | oh, so all the extra fluff in iterators, are they available as separate modules? |
| 02:03:49
| <rvagg> | or you're going for simpler patterns these days? |
| 02:03:49
| <Raynos> | half of them are |
| 02:03:55
| <Raynos> | i didnt bother to do all of them |
| 02:04:17
| <Raynos> | I use https://github.com/Raynos/continuable#maplambdasource |
| 02:04:24
| <Raynos> | also https://github.com/dominictarr/through |
| 02:06:21
| <rvagg> | nice |
| 02:07:35
| <rvagg> | Raynos: so what is continuable in npm? https://npmjs.org/package/continuable is creationix's |
| 02:07:43
| <Raynos> | yeah |
| 02:07:52
| <Raynos> | I have yet to finish fighting with him over the name |
| 02:07:56
| <Raynos> | for now `npm i Raynos/continuable` |
| 02:07:58
| <rvagg> | ahhh |
| 02:08:46
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| 02:09:06
| <Raynos> | rvagg: https://gist.github.com/Raynos/5486218 |
| 02:09:50
| <Raynos> | so if you want map over an array just map each value to a continuable that will do the async computation and the use list to parallelize it and then just grab the answer |
| 02:10:12
| <Raynos> | im not sure whether this is actually better |
| 02:10:27
| <Raynos> | but it might lead to some useful higher order abstractions eventually |
| 02:12:23
| <rvagg> | mm, it's possibly a nicer way to think about the problem |
| 02:12:36
| <rvagg> | a bit verbose but I guess that can be reduced easily enough |
| 02:12:50
| <jesusabdullah> | I need more CSI: Miami jokes |
| 02:12:56
| <jesusabdullah> | oh also I told the goog I'd talk to them :/ |
| 02:13:01
| <jesusabdullah> | on one hand, it's the goog |
| 02:13:09
| <jesusabdullah> | on the other hand, it could lead to stable, lucrative employment |
| 02:13:14
| <jesusabdullah> | :/ :\ |
| 02:13:54
| <no9> | mbalho I had a look at the levelidb stuff but there is no support for mobile browsers so it didn't fit my purpose |
| 02:14:48
| <Raynos> | https://gist.github.com/Raynos/5486231#file-async-filter-js-L5 |
| 02:15:08
| <Raynos> | you can implement async filtering with map & list in 12 lines |
| 02:15:19
| <Raynos> | so I think it's not a bad abstraction on which other things can be build |
| 02:15:56
| <jesusabdullah> | hmmm |
| 02:15:57
| <Raynos> | rvagg: ^ Of course the biggest advantage is that interop with everything that does cb's is trivial one line wrappers |
| 02:16:01
| <jesusabdullah> | what's the coding version of "uncrop" ? |
| 02:16:15
| <jesusabdullah> | also how come you guys don't stress about teh futar and I do? |
| 02:18:47
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| 02:20:19
| <isaacs> | Raynos: we'd do promises from the start, and only support JavaScript and C++ for extensions |
| 02:20:26
| <jesusabdullah> | this very special episode of CSI Miami is about gay action stars |
| 02:20:35
| <isaacs> | Raynos: and no streams, just monads |
| 02:20:46
| <jesusabdullah> | someone told me that vin diesel was gay but according to the internet they were a liar |
| 02:21:07
| <jesusabdullah> | that said, hearing that proved to me that really I wouldn't give a shit |
| 02:23:11
| <rvagg> | Raynos: the real problem you have is that it's so hard to grok what's going on with that code unless your head is deep in it |
| 02:24:02
| <rvagg> | actually, that's probably the case with any sufficiently advanced FP library |
| 02:28:50
| <jesusabdullah> | oh you guys |
| 02:28:54
| <jesusabdullah> | so distracted by theory |
| 02:29:05
| <jesusabdullah> | totally missing the human element of software |
| 02:29:22
| <jesusabdullah> | whereas I'm so buried in the so-called "human element" that I don't even have strong opinions about software anymore |
| 02:29:29
| <jesusabdullah> | what a world |
| 02:29:36
| <rvagg> | unhinged! |
| 02:29:53
| <jesusabdullah> | that's me alright |
| 02:31:24
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| 02:32:09
| <jesusabdullah> | hmmm |
| 02:32:19
| <jesusabdullah> | s2e16, yea or nay |
| 02:33:26
| <jesusabdullah> | You know what's interesting? |
| 02:33:35
| <jesusabdullah> | The Anchorage Bowl is roughly the size of San Francisco |
| 02:33:44
| <jesusabdullah> | surrounded by not a whole fucking lot |
| 02:33:47
| <jesusabdullah> | but still |
| 02:33:55
| <jesusabdullah> | a lot less dense though |
| 02:36:42
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| 02:37:07
| <jesusabdullah> | rvagg: what do you do for job these days anyway? |
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| 02:40:40
| <rvagg> | jesusabdullah: same stuff, animal genetics, horse nutrition |
| 02:40:54
| <jesusabdullah> | I actually never knew what you did for work |
| 02:41:31
| <rvagg> | yeah, been doing this stuff, mainly genetics, for far too long, 15 years or so |
| 02:41:50
| * isaacs | & |
| 02:41:51
| <LOUDBOT> | HE'S PAL-ING AROUND WITH ATHIEST INVESTMENT BANKER ANARCHISTS |
| 02:42:03
| <rvagg> | but on the plus side, give me a population of animals and good pedigree information and I can calculate the inbreeding and coancestry of each animal for you! |
| 02:42:17
| <jesusabdullah> | so |
| 02:42:23
| <jesusabdullah> | can you tell me how inbred my parakeet is? |
| 02:42:26
| <rvagg> | and implement a genetic algorithm that'll generate a suitable mating set to maximise genetic gain and minimise inbreeding |
| 02:42:29
| <jesusabdullah> | I can tell you he's male and that he's blue |
| 02:42:35
| <jesusabdullah> | and kind of an asshole |
| 02:43:08
| <rvagg> | jesusabdullah: when I had an office back at the university where we started this stuff, we had a work experience girl from a local highschool, she bred small parrots (australian budgies) for fun |
| 02:43:39
| <rvagg> | jesusabdullah: we were able to take her records and work out the genetic probabilities of the various traits she was after (particularly blue feathers), so she could pair them up better |
| 02:43:45
| <rvagg> | jesusabdullah: that was amusing |
| 02:44:06
| <rvagg> | jesusabdullah: we've also done stuff for the entire world's captive bengal tiger population via a PhD student who was into that |
| 02:44:27
| <rvagg> | but anyway, I'm a programmer with far too much genetic crud taking up space in my brain |
| 02:44:28
| <jesusabdullah> | rvagg: "parakeet" is American for "Australian Budgie" |
| 02:44:50
| <rvagg> | crikey, you're right |
| 02:44:51
| <rvagg> | didn't know that |
| 02:44:56
| <jesusabdullah> | ^__^ |
| 02:45:34
| <rvagg> | I believe "budgerigar" (budgie) means "good to eat" in local aboriginal language |
| 02:45:38
| <jesusabdullah> | hahaha |
| 02:45:53
| <jesusabdullah> | not a lot of meat on his bones XD |
| 02:46:05
| <rvagg> | and also google "budge smugglers" for a fun colloquial australianism |
| 02:46:16
| <rvagg> | anyway, off to lunch |
| 02:46:43
| <jesusabdullah> | lulz |
| 02:47:03
| <jesusabdullah> | lolol that was worth it |
| 02:47:13
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| 03:05:39
| <Raynos> | isaacs: you still need streams. But thankfully streams are just at type of monad. |
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| 03:07:38
| <mbalho> | rvagg: if i were to call a client side leveldb "level.js" would it annoy you? |
| 03:09:16
| <Raynos> | rvagg: would this api version help? ( https://gist.github.com/Raynos/5486231 ) |
| 03:09:42
| <Raynos> | i think prefixing anything with .js is really annoying |
| 03:09:49
| <Raynos> | its like the node-foo prefixes |
| 03:09:51
| <Raynos> | redundant |
| 03:10:07
| <mbalho> | i disagree with you |
| 03:10:09
| <mbalho> | :) |
| 03:10:31
| <Raynos> | but maybe |
| 03:10:37
| <Raynos> | this is why you can market and popularize your modules |
| 03:10:39
| <Raynos> | better then me :D |
| 03:10:44
| * defunctzombie | changed nick to defunctzombie_zz |
| 03:10:55
| <chapel> | could call it frontlevel |
| 03:18:43
| <jesusabdullah> | hello chapel ltns |
| 03:18:52
| <chapel> | :D |
| 03:18:55
| <chapel> | I know rite |
| 03:20:20
| <chapel> | hows alaska? |
| 03:23:30
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| 03:37:02
| <jesusabdullah> | chapel: not bad |
| 03:37:13
| <jesusabdullah> | chapel: anchorage is a fun drinking town |
| 03:37:24
| <jesusabdullah> | chapel: small but fun tech community too |
| 03:37:26
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| 03:37:28
| <chapel> | cool |
| 03:37:38
| <jesusabdullah> | very .net-focused though |
| 03:37:50
| <jesusabdullah> | biggest employers are big oil and they looooove microsoft |
| 03:39:26
| <chapel> | sounds like here (spokane) |
| 03:39:30
| <chapel> | very .net focused |
| 03:42:31
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| 03:48:37
| <jesusabdullah> | yeah sounds plausible |
| 03:48:46
| <jesusabdullah> | I half-participated in a local civic hackathon |
| 03:49:29
| <jesusabdullah> | I was feeling sick, and the project I was working on ended up being a "set them up with salesforce" situation |
| 03:50:01
| <jesusabdullah> | anyways, there was another group I was thinking about working with and it was like |
| 03:50:12
| <jesusabdullah> | "oh hey these guys need some serious database lovin' what are you thinking" |
| 03:50:31
| <jesusabdullah> | "microsoft sql server, some c sharp" "oh yeah man I do visual basic dot net blah blah" |
| 03:50:35
| <jesusabdullah> | and I'm like |
| 03:50:41
| <jesusabdullah> | "...I do linux. Buy guise g'luck" |
| 03:50:44
| <rvagg> | mbalho: whatever, I have leveljs in npm and that's all I care about! |
| 03:50:44
| <jesusabdullah> | "ohohohoho" |
| 03:51:09
| <rvagg> | mbalho: I plan to modularise it (when I magically find time to complete it) into packages like: leveljs-sst, leveljs-log, leveljs-iterator, etc. |
| 03:52:23
| <rvagg> | Raynos: I have no idea if that's better cause it's still quite opaque |
| 03:52:43
| <rvagg> | give me some time to wrap my head around it and use it and i'll give feedback |
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| 03:54:01
| <rvagg> | mbalho: in summary: since I don't have a properly implemented LevelJS I have no right to complain about naming, so if you get something working browser-side and you think it makes sense to have that name then whatever |
| 03:56:01
| <rvagg> | Raynos: jsig isn't helping.. it's so unnatural |
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| 04:02:58
| <mbalho> | chrisdickinson: hmm... is beefy from npm working for you? if i type beefy entry.js it does nothing |
| 04:05:08
| <mbalho> | chrisdickinson: rolling back to 0.1.1 works for me but 0.2.0 and 0.2.1 just exit imediately |
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| 04:17:22
| <rvagg> | Raynos: why isn't list() in a module? it seems to be a pretty important component of what you can do with this stuff? |
| 04:17:35
| <rvagg> | Raynos: i.e. https://gist.github.com/Raynos/5486205 |
| 04:20:51
| <mbalho> | rvagg: fyi https://github.com/rvagg/node-abstract-leveldown/commit/6b6d23f9192aad5896a7bcede2db6739745a2d23 |
| 04:21:18
| <rvagg> | ✔ |
| 04:22:06
| <rvagg> | mbalho: do I need to publish a new release? |
| 04:22:34
| <mbalho> | rvagg: nah i might have more fixes |
| 04:22:53
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| 04:23:55
| <rvagg> | k |
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| 04:48:48
| <Raynos> | Rvagg: its really new stuff |
| 04:48:57
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| 04:48:59
| <Raynos> | Only been doing it for a week |
| 04:50:22
| <rvagg> | Raynos: ok, I'm sort of getting the hang of it |
| 04:50:27
| <rvagg> | stick list in there |
| 04:50:50
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| 04:52:05
| <rvagg> | Raynos: function X takes argument type A and returns object type B (async, on a callback).. what if I want to get something like { a: A, b: B } instead cause I don't want to lose my A when I map a bunch of stuff together |
| 04:52:35
| <rvagg> | Raynos: like, I have an fs.stat() but I lose the original file/path name to that call, I want both the stat & the file/path at the end |
| 04:53:23
| <chrisdickinson> | mbalho: `beefy entry.js` doesn't autoopen yet |
| 04:56:59
| <mbalho> | chrisdickinson: yea but shouldnt it start a server/ |
| 04:57:06
| <chrisdickinson> | oooh |
| 04:57:09
| <chrisdickinson> | yes |
| 04:57:13
| <chrisdickinson> | it really really should |
| 04:57:14
| <chrisdickinson> | :| |
| 04:57:19
| <mbalho> | chrisdickinson: cause it doesnt for me anymore, does it for you? |
| 04:57:44
| <chrisdickinson> | no! good catch. |
| 04:58:07
| * chrisdickinson | is sorry. |
| 04:58:12
| <mbalho> | haha its okay |
| 04:58:48
| <mbalho> | someone play this with me i wanna see if its good |
| 04:58:49
| <mbalho> | http://openfu.com/ld26/current/client/ |
| 04:59:24
| <mbalho> | waaa server connection lost? |
| 04:59:28
| <chrisdickinson> | yeah ): |
| 04:59:35
| <mbalho> | LAME |
| 04:59:37
| <chrisdickinson> | and again |
| 04:59:38
| <chrisdickinson> | boo |
| 04:59:48
| <mbalho> | givin up |
| 05:04:28
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| 05:05:17
| <mbalho> | rvagg: http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-26/?action=preview&uid=6781 |
| 05:06:12
| <rvagg> | mbalho: ? |
| 05:06:49
| <mbalho> | rvagg: STUNTS!!! |
| 05:07:01
| <rvagg> | mbalho: ! |
| 05:07:21
| <mbalho> | rvagg: werent you there at campjs when they were trying to implement stunts in js? |
| 05:07:44
| <rvagg> | mbalho: tweet @ @alexdickson, he's still working on it |
| 05:07:48
| <mbalho> | lol |
| 05:08:23
| <mbalho> | his last tweet about stunts was 3 hours ago hahaha |
| 05:08:42
| <rvagg> | yeah, I've been encouraging him to give a talk at melbjs about stunts |
| 05:08:56
| <mbalho> | haha |
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| 05:13:41
| <rvagg> | Raynos: your continuables are making me feel like a complete n00b! stumbling around in the dark with a confused look on my face waiting for the output to not be an error |
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| <rvagg> | it's like first learning the async mind-trip, waiting for it to *click* |
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| 05:19:32
| <Raynos> | rvagg: ok so |
| 05:23:41
| <Raynos> | rvagg: https://gist.github.com/Raynos/5486730 |
| 05:24:00
| <Raynos> | you can just return objects |
| 05:24:11
| <Raynos> | everything you can do with callbacks you can do with continuabvles |
| 05:24:26
| <Raynos> | the only difference is that continuable is a thing that you can return or pass to other functions. i.e. its a value |
| 05:24:36
| <Raynos> | its easier to write higher order functions over values then over CPS |
| 05:24:41
| <Raynos> | I'm sure the latter could be done |
| 05:26:48
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| 05:26:59
| <rvagg> | hrm |
| 05:27:01
| <Raynos> | rvagg: I was really hoping continuable's were close enough to callbacks that it would be easy to pick up |
| 05:27:13
| <rvagg> | keep hoping |
| 05:27:16
| <Raynos> | :D |
| 05:27:36
| <Raynos> | i need more real world usage before I can start giving good examples |
| 05:28:00
| <Raynos> | I also wrote a `cache` function which turns a continuable into a promise-like thing. i.e. if you call it multiple times it gives you the same value back |
| 05:28:09
| <Raynos> | best of both worlds! |
| 05:30:15
| <jesusabdullah> | wat is continuabul |
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| 05:35:09
| <Raynos> | https://github.com/Raynos/continuable |
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| 05:42:33
| <rvagg> | Raynos: https://gist.github.com/rvagg/f35c8fb674621d428fb0 |
| 05:42:49
| <rvagg> | I'm not sure that's any better than an alternative method, quite verbose in fact, can you improve? |
| 05:48:36
| <st_luke> | america - http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/29/nh-man-loses-life-savings-on-carnival-game/ |
| 05:50:50
| <jesusabdullah> | lol |
| 05:50:54
| <jesusabdullah> | $2600? |
| 05:50:56
| <jesusabdullah> | that's it? |
| 05:50:57
| <jesusabdullah> | I mean |
| 05:51:13
| <jesusabdullah> | At that point I wouldn't call it a "life savings" so much as a "buffer" |
| 06:07:56
| <Raynos> | sec |
| 06:07:59
| <Raynos> | ill look at it |
| 06:09:38
| <Raynos> | god I cant read that |
| 06:14:49
| <jesusabdullah> | ugh what the fuck kind of recruiter sends out email blasts for serious |
| 06:14:57
| <jesusabdullah> | even the skeeviest at least fake one-on-one |
| 06:15:01
| <jesusabdullah> | ಠ_ಠ |
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| 06:16:54
| <Raynos> | rvagg: https://gist.github.com/Raynos/e312c81ac46b96135517#file-index-js-L11 |
| 06:17:27
| <Raynos> | the improvement here is hash function and only using continuables when needed and using normal objects / arrays when not needed |
| 06:18:53
| <rvagg> | Raynos: ok, so we're closer to a vanilla implementation, does that mean the value of continuables is limited? |
| 06:19:55
| <rvagg> | oh yea, toPath() was meant to be something a bit more complex initially, the callback is unnecessary so that does change things |
| 06:20:20
| <rvagg> | tho the err is handy as a callback |
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| <rvagg> | Raynos: I'm inclined just to go with this version: https://gist.github.com/rvagg/f35c8fb674621d428fb0 |
| 06:30:05
| <rvagg> | much simpler, sans continuables |
| 06:30:46
| <rvagg> | what I'd really like to do is string functions together arbitrarily, like streams, it'd be nice if contibuables allowed that |
| 06:31:20
| <jesusabdullah> | still dun noe wat contunuabul is :C |
| 06:31:22
| <rvagg> | ['foo','bar'].map(toPath(mappify(stat))) |
| 06:32:03
| <rvagg> | jesusabdullah: it's ok, you'll find out when you grow up |
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| 06:39:21
| <jesusabdullah> | rvagg: ur so mean 2 me |
| 06:39:33
| <jesusabdullah> | ;_; |
| 06:40:11
| <jesusabdullah> | ahhh, config code |
| 06:40:31
| <jesusabdullah> | part of me thinks that config stuff was 100% solved with dominic's config-chain and rc modules |
| 06:41:38
| <jesusabdullah> | same part of me that things require('./config.json') is sufficient for most cases |
| 06:41:51
| <jesusabdullah> | another part of me thinks nconf fucked it up but was a half-truth |
| 06:42:00
| <jesusabdullah> | what do you think rvagg? |
| 06:42:17
| <jesusabdullah> | if you had to choose between require('./config.json') and a hypothetical rewrite of nconf...... |
| 06:43:26
| <rvagg> | jesusabdullah: nconf, a little like the rest of the stuff that comes out of nodejitsu, is kind of over the top, all-things-to-all-apps bloatware |
| 06:43:44
| <rvagg> | jesusabdullah: which is sad cause there's so much good stuff in there, it's just bloated by trying to be generic |
| 06:47:08
| <jesusabdullah> | yeah rvagg |
| 06:47:25
| <jesusabdullah> | like 80% right, 20% nodjatso |
| 06:47:36
| <jesusabdullah> | and that 20% is kind of a deal breaker |
| 06:48:22
| <jesusabdullah> | or maybe a different cut, wherein I can't figure out the exact cut |
| 06:49:03
| <jesusabdullah> | Nexxy: didn't you and tasha get engaged ages ago? or did the gubmint say no for nebulous reasons? |
| 06:49:12
| <jesusabdullah> | Nexxy: facebro teh confuzzles |
| 06:51:39
| <jesusabdullah> | obtw rvagg budgie smuggler was lulz |
| 06:52:05
| <rvagg> | jesusabdullah: yeah, we have a ton of euphemisms for those |
| 06:53:58
| <rvagg> | jesusabdullah: "lolly bags" is my fave tho |
| 06:54:02
| <jesusabdullah> | haha |
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| 06:54:10
| <jesusabdullah> | naw "budgie smuggler" is the best |
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| <jesusabdullah> | dangit why did this tweet get retwatted it makes NO SENSE |
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| <Raynos> | rvagg: i also want to string functions together |
| 07:50:22
| <Raynos> | thats why map returns a fn(cont) => cont |
| 07:50:35
| <Raynos> | so you can do compose([ map(f), map(g), map(h) ]) and it does the correct thing |
| 07:50:44
| <Raynos> | but I have yet to figure out how to use it effectively |
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| 08:56:29
| <rvagg> | Raynos: another variation: https://gist.github.com/rvagg/f35c8fb674621d428fb0 |
| 08:59:54
| <rvagg> | Raynos: it seems that the goal, at least as far as I see it, is to have better reusable functions that can be pieced together in flexible ways |
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| <dominictarr> | mbalho: substack idea for game: you are playing along, and then suddenly, you accidentally hit a key, and go into code edit mode (and can see things, like strings the characters will say) |
| 10:48:29
| <dominictarr> | and you have to use that to solve a puzzel |
| 10:48:56
| <dominictarr> | but then, the some other character, some wizard guy |
| 10:49:10
| <dominictarr> | when you tell him about it |
| 10:49:20
| <dominictarr> | is like: no no no, that was nothing |
| 10:49:32
| <dominictarr> | you just had a fit of insanity |
| 10:49:37
| <dominictarr> | you where dreaming |
| 10:49:57
| <dominictarr> | and trys to expel you and send you to the mental asylum |
| 10:50:13
| <dominictarr> | but then in the asylum, you meet another guy who can do it |
| 10:50:25
| <dominictarr> | and he starts to teach you more programming |
| 10:50:40
| <dominictarr> | and introduce you to a secret society of programmers |
| 10:51:08
| <dominictarr> | maybe it's not a wizard character |
| 10:51:13
| <dominictarr> | maybe it's a priest |
| 10:51:31
| <dominictarr> | it's a non magic world - except you discover magic |
| 10:52:05
| <dominictarr> | and all the powerful people are trying to suppress it and cover it up |
| 10:54:00
| <tanepiper> | sounds a bit like Dreamweb http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DreamWeb |
| 10:56:55
| <substack> | I just had some really vivid abstract art and music in my dream |
| 11:00:00
| <st_luke> | substack: draw it before you forget it! |
| 11:03:37
| <st_luke> | since i changed my twitter i get a lot of spam from justin bieber fans |
| 11:03:42
| <st_luke> | this must be what happiness feels like |
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| <juliangruber> | substack: you dropped the hash fallback in single-page but also removed the check for window.addEventListener |
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| 12:44:31
| <juliangruber> | so you won't support older browsers? |
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| <substack> | I did that because it wasn't working with hash urls on pushstate urls |
| 12:49:41
| <juliangruber> | oh |
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| 13:01:05
| <juliangruber> | having to support ie8 and firefox 3.6 sucks so hard |
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| 13:20:46
| <juliangruber> | in ie8: typeof el.appendChild === 'object' |
| 13:20:59
| <dominictarr> | wtf |
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| 13:21:17
| <juliangruber> | that's so wrong |
| 13:21:19
| <dominictarr> | typeof el.appendChild.call ? |
| 13:21:48
| <juliangruber> | object |
| 13:21:55
| <juliangruber> | typeof function() {} == 'function' |
| 13:22:00
| <juliangruber> | weirdo |
| 13:22:16
| <dominictarr> | what about in ie9 ? |
| 13:22:29
| <juliangruber> | seems to be fixed there |
| 13:22:56
| <dominictarr> | recently in v8, typeof /regexp/ === 'function'; but now: it's object |
| 13:23:11
| <dominictarr> | changed when we switched to 0.8 |
| 13:23:56
| <juliangruber> | makes more sense? |
| 13:24:15
| <dominictarr> | it was a function, but you couldn't call it. |
| 13:24:22
| <dominictarr> | which was silly |
| 13:24:43
| <dominictarr> | or maybe you could? can't remember... |
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| 13:25:20
| <juliangruber> | now, how do we fix typing |
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| <juliangruber> | in ie8: typeof NodeList == 'object' |
| 13:29:25
| <juliangruber> | so you can't do instanceof checks |
| 13:29:35
| <juliangruber> | can I hire someone to fix my ie8 bugs? |
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| <tanepiper> | Yes, but it'll cost you a lot :p |
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| <defunctzombie> | substack: version 1.0.0 of browser-resolve has no shims |
| 15:34:53
| <defunctzombie> | substack: I can do a pull on browserify for those if you want |
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| <mbalho> | rvagg: hmm i think the only thing keeping me from being able to use abstract leveldown for client side is the Buffer.isBuffer. i dunno a good interop pattern for buffers/typed arrays though :( |
| 16:59:28
| <mbalho> | rvagg: how does levelup handle storing typed arrays? |
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| <rowbit> | /!\ GitHub user "no9" is supporting Testling with the testling_supporter_5 plan! $5/month. Cash money! |
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| <mbalho> | rvagg: also indexeddb stores all JS data types natively so you dont have to do the whole stringify-all-the-things that leveldown seems to do now |
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| <dominictarr> | substack: defunctzombie_zz would you be able to do module-deps using just a tokenizer instead of parsing? |
| 18:57:10
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| 18:57:56
| <juliangruber> | dominictarr: what laptop are you thinking of getting? |
| 18:58:10
| <dominictarr> | for going back to linux? |
| 18:58:14
| <juliangruber> | yes |
| 18:58:14
| <juliangruber> | :) |
| 18:58:26
| <dominictarr> | I'm just gonna try install something on the air |
| 18:58:35
| <dominictarr> | nothing against the hardware |
| 18:58:46
| <dominictarr> | some people seem to manage it! |
| 18:58:52
| <juliangruber> | I was thinking of that 350$ samsung chromebook which has 3g built in |
| 18:59:09
| <dominictarr> | oh yeah that looks really good too |
| 18:59:18
| <mbalho> | if anyone has opinions on leveldb node/browser test suite compatibility: https://github.com/rvagg/node-abstract-leveldown/issues/2 |
| 18:59:22
| <juliangruber> | but 16gb ssd is tiny, my ~/git folder already has 16gb |
| 18:59:42
| <dominictarr> | would be awesome not to have a phone for working from cafes |
| 19:00:09
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| 19:00:16
| <mbalho> | 3g with a plan? |
| 19:00:19
| <dominictarr> | I'm at 9bg |
| 19:00:25
| <dominictarr> | fuck that |
| 19:00:30
| <dominictarr> | prepay or nothing |
| 19:00:32
| <mbalho> | i have 6gb |
| 19:00:50
| <dominictarr> | my ~/.npm is also 0.9gb |
| 19:02:09
| <dominictarr> | juliangruber: I was reading something that made we think I needed a intel chromebook |
| 19:02:25
| <dominictarr> | think it was something about gcc working? |
| 19:03:50
| <dominictarr> | but for only 350 it's not really a big deal |
| 19:04:16
| <juliangruber> | hm tough call |
| 19:04:30
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| 19:06:51
| <dominictarr> | I like the idea of the chromebook, but need a package manager for stuff, so it might be ubuntu in the end. |
| 19:06:59
| <dominictarr> | until anarchy os is ready that is! |
| 19:07:03
| <juliangruber> | :D |
| 19:07:14
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| 19:07:30
| <juliangruber> | yeah, what's the advantage of chromeos over ubuntu or another linux distro? |
| 19:11:28
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| 19:13:09
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| 19:13:52
| <dominictarr> | well the problem is ubuntu isn't that great |
| 19:14:11
| <juliangruber> | with chromeos you have chrome and shell |
| 19:14:18
| <juliangruber> | shouldn't be too hard with any other os |
| 19:14:23
| <dominictarr> | choromeos sounds promising |
| 19:14:24
| <juliangruber> | the boot is fast, thoguh |
| 19:14:41
| <dominictarr> | ubuntu has a pretty good package manager. |
| 19:15:00
| <dominictarr> | if you could install gcc with npm all my problems would be solved, though. |
| 19:15:48
| <juliangruber> | dominictarr: why gcc with npm? |
| 19:16:06
| <dominictarr> | well, gcc is just an example |
| 19:16:15
| <juliangruber> | ah, I see what you mean |
| 19:16:21
| <dominictarr> | the low level tools you always need eventually |
| 19:16:31
| <dominictarr> | if not to use directly |
| 19:16:42
| <dominictarr> | then to compile something like leveldown |
| 19:16:58
| <dominictarr> | I don't want to have to go and install that stuff manually |
| 19:17:02
| <juliangruber> | dominictarr: chromeos comes with portage as a package manager |
| 19:17:11
| <juliangruber> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portage_(software) |
| 19:17:42
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| 19:20:20
| <dominictarr> | hmm, that sounds pretty good |
| 19:20:32
| <Domenic_> | where was that place where substack gave a good explanation of how you should handle excessive ..s |
| 19:20:34
| <CoverSlide> | yeah it's based on gentoo |
| 19:20:37
| <Domenic_> | (by creating new packages) |
| 19:22:57
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| 19:24:20
| <dominictarr> | juliangruber: downloading the virtual box thing to try it out http://chromeos.hexxeh.net/ |
| 19:24:38
| <juliangruber> | dominictarr: i think i tried that and it didn't work |
| 19:24:44
| <st_luke> | Domenic_: jw, did you have izs go over that domains stuff you were demoing? |
| 19:24:49
| <dominictarr> | the vm one? |
| 19:24:53
| <juliangruber> | yes |
| 19:24:55
| <juliangruber> | I'll try again |
| 19:24:58
| <dominictarr> | hmm |
| 19:25:10
| <st_luke> | Domenic_: idk if you can just wrap it in an ee and have the same benefit as actually ending the process |
| 19:25:48
| <Domenic_> | st_luke: isaacs only commented on the promise slides :P |
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| 19:31:24
| <juliangruber> | dominictarr: it booted but doesn't recognize the network interface |
| 19:31:40
| <dominictarr> | in virtualbox? |
| 19:31:48
| <dominictarr> | or on your computer? |
| 19:31:49
| <juliangruber> | yes |
| 19:31:52
| <juliangruber> | virtualbox |
| 19:34:11
| <juliangruber> | http://www.howtogeek.com/128087/how-to-run-chrome-os-in-virtualbox-and-try-out-chrome-os-before-buying-a-chromebook/ |
| 19:34:56
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| 19:36:58
| <juliangruber> | dominictarr: it works :) |
| 19:37:03
| <dominictarr> | ! |
| 19:37:41
| <juliangruber> | the mouse pointer moves strangely |
| 19:44:33
| <juliangruber> | dominictarr: you get to a shell through ctrl+alt+T |
| 19:44:47
| <dominictarr> | still downloading.... |
| 19:49:20
| * defunctzombie_zz | changed nick to defunctzombie |
| 19:50:35
| <defunctzombie> | dominictarr: module deps on just source without a location doesn't produce any useful output |
| 19:50:44
| <defunctzombie> | since module-deps needs to then load the other files |
| 19:54:51
| <dominictarr> | the keyboard shortcuts suck |
| 19:55:07
| <dominictarr> | sometimes I am changing tabs with the keys |
| 19:55:25
| <dominictarr> | and the focus gets stuck in the location bar |
| 19:56:48
| <dominictarr> | and you have to hit tab and then it will work again... |
| 19:56:55
| <juliangruber> | dominictarr: when you're at the shell, username and password are chronos and facepunch |
| 19:56:55
| <juliangruber> | vim in the chrome shell behaves strangely...or the display doesn't update when doing some thing |
| 19:56:55
| <juliangruber> | s |
| 19:57:39
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| 19:57:46
| <dominictarr> | unless there is a auto suggest there… which means I have to press esc then tab |
| 19:58:27
| <juliangruber> | in chromeos? |
| 19:58:41
| <dominictarr> | yeah |
| 19:58:49
| <dominictarr> | I always change tabs by keys |
| 19:59:06
| <dominictarr> | that is essential - also I want the same controls for browser as for terminal |
| 19:59:20
| <juliangruber> | I use CMD+LARR/RARR |
| 19:59:33
| <juliangruber> | i mean cmd + alt + larr/rarr |
| 20:00:04
| <juliangruber> | never had the problem of hitting that with the address bar focused |
| 20:00:37
| <dominictarr> | in chrome os? |
| 20:00:53
| <juliangruber> | in mac os |
| 20:01:23
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| 20:01:56
| <dominictarr> | on mac it's okay |
| 20:02:04
| <juliangruber> | I think the browser shouldn't have tabs at all, that should os level |
| 20:02:11
| <juliangruber> | +be |
| 20:02:25
| <dominictarr> | on linux it's best! you can also reposition tabs with keys! |
| 20:02:33
| <dominictarr> | I kinda agree |
| 20:02:56
| <rowbit> | /!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\ |
| 20:02:56
| <rowbit> | /!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) moreoutput@... successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\ |
| 20:02:59
| <dominictarr> | I think I'll go to a tile based windows manager like substack |
| 20:03:38
| <juliangruber> | I've been on those but some apps couldn't be forced into tiles...maybe I won't have that problem anymore |
| 20:04:05
| <juliangruber> | it would be cool to go to browser + terminal only, absolutely nothing else |
| 20:04:06
| <dominictarr> | I got to a term, but there are no commands? |
| 20:04:22
| <juliangruber> | which term are you in? |
| 20:04:23
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| 20:04:37
| <dominictarr> | crosh |
| 20:04:51
| <juliangruber> | ctrl+alt+fn+f1 |
| 20:05:55
| <dominictarr> | aha I found it |
| 20:06:05
| <dominictarr> | the command is `shell` |
| 20:06:09
| <juliangruber> | oh |
| 20:06:19
| <juliangruber> | yeah sry forgot that |
| 20:06:20
| <mbalho> | typing this from chromeos WOOP WOOP |
| 20:06:50
| <dominictarr> | there is no man command! |
| 20:07:01
| <juliangruber> | WOOP WOOP |
| 20:07:02
| <LOUDBOT> | LUNIX HAD TEH TROJANS? DUZ DAT MEEN WE'RE POPULAR?! |
| 20:07:06
| <mbalho> | why man when you can google |
| 20:07:24
| <mbalho> | i wouldnt not expect chromeos to have anything except chrome on it |
| 20:07:26
| <CoverSlide> | LOUDBOT: tweetlast |
| 20:07:26
| <LOUDBOT> | CoverSlide: HELLO CUSTOMER SERVICE YES THESE BANANNA ROLLING PAPERS ARE YELLOW BUT THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY ACTUAL BANANA FLAVOR AND ALSO THE COTTON CANDY ONES ARE BLUE |
| 20:07:27
| <guybrush> | because you dont need tobe online :D |
| 20:07:29
| <mbalho> | oops meant to say 'would not' |
| 20:07:54
| <mbalho> | i wonder what the meta key is mapped to... |
| 20:08:16
| <juliangruber> | mbalho: but it has a package manager! |
| 20:08:49
| <juliangruber> | maybe I'll just order the cheap samsung chromebook and use the 30d return policy |
| 20:20:14
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| 20:39:38
| <dominictarr> | nah, fuck this. |
| 20:40:05
| <dominictarr> | I don't want to use something that is working against me hacking so hard. |
| 20:44:11
| <dominictarr> | chromeos is too badly crippled. |
| 20:45:36
| <mbalho> | its not crippled, you just had your own expectations :) |
| 20:47:03
| <dominictarr> | yes. and they are unreasonably high. |
| 20:47:20
| <dominictarr> | if a computer can't compile it's just a toy |
| 20:47:59
| <dominictarr> | if you can only use a web browser and email then you arn't computer literate |
| 20:48:12
| <dominictarr> | literate is being able to read and write programs. |
| 20:48:22
| <CoverSlide> | chromeos is basically an ipad with a keyboard |
| 20:48:28
| <dominictarr> | yeah. |
| 20:48:36
| <mbalho> | javascript is programming |
| 20:48:52
| <mbalho> | you guys just want unix |
| 20:48:54
| <dominictarr> | maybe when js git is ready. |
| 20:49:06
| <CoverSlide> | well sure there's c9 |
| 20:49:09
| <dominictarr> | well, it is unix |
| 20:49:17
| <mbalho> | its chrome |
| 20:49:24
| <dominictarr> | it's gentoo |
| 20:49:26
| <CoverSlide> | iOS is unix too |
| 20:49:37
| <mbalho> | its not unix if you cant get to the unix |
| 20:49:48
| <CoverSlide> | true |
| 20:50:19
| <dominictarr> | Anyway, I object to the idea of apps that only work when signed by a central authority |
| 20:50:28
| <dominictarr> | that is completely the wrong approach |
| 20:50:59
| <dominictarr> | the right approach is to install untrusted apps into a sandbox - a la the web |
| 20:52:04
| <juliangruber> | -> firefox os |
| 20:52:15
| <juliangruber> | everyone can host a firefox os marketplace |
| 20:52:31
| <dominictarr> | oh really? that sounds much better |
| 20:52:34
| <juliangruber> | but I don't think you can get to a shell easily |
| 20:52:38
| <juliangruber> | yeah |
| 20:53:46
| <dominictarr> | someone said once, if you arn't programming the computer, the computer is programming you. |
| 20:55:02
| * dominictarr | quit (Quit: dominictarr) |
| 20:56:56
| <juliangruber> | we program browsers, so if the browser is the lowest accessible level that's ok, right? :) |
| 20:59:51
| <mbalho> | juliangruber: what does the over-the-wore protocol of multilevel look like? |
| 20:59:55
| <mbalho> | juliangruber: wire* |
| 21:00:16
| <mbalho> | juliangruber: is it a binary stream? |
| 21:03:46
| <juliangruber> | mbalho: it currently uses rpc-stream and mux-demux |
| 21:04:19
| <mbalho> | juliangruber: i think mux demux is just strings, right? |
| 21:04:41
| <mbalho> | juliangruber: so it converts binary to string and back? |
| 21:04:45
| <juliangruber> | it might have problems with binary data atm, mux-demux could be configured to use msgpack or redis-protocol-stream |
| 21:05:34
| <juliangruber> | ah |
| 21:05:51
| <juliangruber> | mux-demux uses JSON.stringify/parse by default |
| 21:05:55
| <mbalho> | :( |
| 21:06:33
| <juliangruber> | mbalho: should be a quick fix :) |
| 21:07:03
| <mbalho> | juliangruber: to use msgpack? is there a fast pure js implementation that works reliably in node + client? |
| 21:07:14
| <mbalho> | i havent used it in JS |
| 21:07:35
| <juliangruber> | I'll have a look |
| 21:07:41
| <mbalho> | i wanna say chrisdickinson was writing one |
| 21:08:04
| <mbalho> | we could also just get dominictarr to write a binary version of mux demux |
| 21:08:12
| <mbalho> | and then we could just use a binary transport like tcp/websockets etc |
| 21:11:19
| <mbalho> | cause js already has native binary support, msgpack seems like the wrong way to get binary support for multilevel |
| 21:12:47
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| 21:12:51
| <juliangruber> | hmm |
| 21:13:09
| <juliangruber> | maybe https://github.com/dominictarr/redis-protocol-stream |
| 21:14:55
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| 21:17:42
| <juliangruber> | a binary mux-demux is the solution |
| 21:19:25
| * shuaib | quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 21:19:44
| <wolfeidau> | yeah you still need to decide on a encoding for the data though :) |
| 21:20:01
| <wolfeidau> | You could go retro and use ASN.1 :P |
| 21:20:38
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| 21:20:39
| <chapel> | is anyone working on a sharded distributed leveldb implementation? |
| 21:20:56
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| 21:21:11
| <juliangruber> | chapel: I started with sharding |
| 21:21:36
| <juliangruber> | but there are different ways to approach that problem and I don't really have a usecase atm... |
| 21:21:45
| <chapel> | mostly just curious, honestly don't think I know enough atm to do something production ready, but wanted to see if anyone had tackled it |
| 21:21:51
| <chapel> | yeah |
| 21:22:25
| <chapel> | Ive been reading and playing with everything node + level db |
| 21:22:38
| <wolfeidau> | mbalho: There is an article around comparing the different binary data encoding methods, message pack is fast but a bit black box in my view |
| 21:22:39
| <chapel> | definitely like the potential |
| 21:23:06
| <chapel> | reminds me of the excitement I had when I started using node in the first place |
| 21:23:43
| <mbalho> | wolfeidau: i wonder how much slower it is than sending a buffer between 2 tcp servers or sending a typed array over a binary websocket to a node websocket server |
| 21:24:28
| <Raynos> | isaacs: https://github.com/isaacs/redsess/pull/5 |
| 21:24:35
| <wolfeidau> | mbalho: well it depends on the header size, tcp service you get to choose ws is 2 byte header for the message |
| 21:25:04
| <wolfeidau> | mbalho: issue with tcp service is you lose all the control messages and stuff |
| 21:25:04
| <Raynos> | oh wait |
| 21:25:07
| <Raynos> | you already solved that |
| 21:25:48
| <wolfeidau> | mbalho: You pretty much build your own protocol, which can get complicated unless your just doing simple stuff |
| 21:25:51
| <mbalho> | wolfeidau: yea but i was thinking more along the lines of the fact that node + browsers already have natively implemented binary encoders/decoders |
| 21:26:30
| <mbalho> | wolfeidau: so it makes the most sense to me to just use those instead of tryign to write your own binary encoder in JS |
| 21:26:48
| <wolfeidau> | mbalho: Yeah I think it depends on message size, you will probably see little diff in small messages, especially given ws is going to gzip it anyways |
| 21:27:24
| <juliangruber> | mbalho: mux-demux is only 180loc, maybe it's not that hard to move it to a binary protocol |
| 21:27:29
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| 21:27:29
| <mbalho> | wolfeidau: ill be sending medium sized binary messages (500kb - 1mb) |
| 21:27:38
| <mbalho> | juliangruber: ah cool |
| 21:27:56
| <mbalho> | i commented here https://github.com/dominictarr/mux-demux/issues/14 |
| 21:28:01
| <juliangruber> | yeah I saw |
| 21:28:25
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| 21:28:58
| <wolfeidau> | mbalho: o ok so the bottle neck you need to test is the serialisation speed of the various methods in said browsers for your message sizes |
| 21:29:58
| <juliangruber> | wolfeidau: streaming serialization for all data types is kinda unsolved in node right now |
| 21:30:30
| <juliangruber> | atm mux-demux only supports object-streams |
| 21:30:30
| <mbalho> | thats why i just want a pure binary protocol |
| 21:30:33
| <dominictarr> | mbalho: what about the redis protocol? |
| 21:30:51
| <guybrush> | there is also https://github.com/binaryjs/binaryjs its based on npm.im/binarypack which is based on npm.im/buffercursor |
| 21:30:55
| <mbalho> | i dont care what the protocol is as long as it can efficiently replicate a leveldb :) |
| 21:31:07
| <dominictarr> | there is already an optimized parser from voxer |
| 21:31:10
| <CoverSlide> | i do like the redis protocol |
| 21:31:28
| <dominictarr> | chapel: there are two problems: replication and sharding |
| 21:31:47
| <dominictarr> | I have a basic master-slave replication already |
| 21:32:33
| <dominictarr> | you could use that to do something like a master (transactor) in the middle that handles all writes, and fan it out to many slaves that handle reads. |
| 21:32:49
| <chapel> | dominictarr: yeah, Ive been reading your code in your various level/scuttlebutt repos |
| 21:33:04
| <dominictarr> | you'll need quite a serious amount of data before you need sharding |
| 21:33:07
| <mbalho> | dominictarr: is the redis protocol text or binary? |
| 21:33:17
| <dominictarr> | it can do binary |
| 21:33:37
| <chapel> | yeah, can't help thinking about the possibilities, but master <-> master should be more than capable for node + level |
| 21:33:38
| <CoverSlide> | it's similar to http chunked encoding. |
| 21:33:44
| <CoverSlide> | though not really |
| 21:33:54
| <dominictarr> | chapel: yeah that is on my list |
| 21:34:06
| <chapel> | isn't redis binary with known delimiter bits? |
| 21:34:12
| <dominictarr> | I might start on that soon. |
| 21:34:19
| <dominictarr> | redis is like |
| 21:34:46
| <dominictarr> | 1*\r\n5$\r\nhello |
| 21:34:50
| <st_luke> | NAS IS LIKE NAS IS LIKE |
| 21:34:50
| <LOUDBOT> | BUT I LIKE BEING NICE |
| 21:34:52
| <chapel> | yeah |
| 21:34:55
| <dominictarr> | (or something) |
| 21:34:59
| <chapel> | you're right |
| 21:35:02
| <chapel> | its very similar to that |
| 21:35:06
| <chapel> | super simple |
| 21:35:14
| <chapel> | conceptually at least |
| 21:35:27
| <mbalho> | dominictarr: if you can make mux-demux use redis protocol then that seems like a win |
| 21:35:33
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| 21:35:34
| <chapel> | dominictarr: are you familiar with elasticsearch? |
| 21:35:42
| <dominictarr> | chapel: so, there are a bunch of approaches to master master it really depends on your application |
| 21:35:47
| <dominictarr> | I've heard of it. |
| 21:36:02
| <chapel> | it has very flexible sharding with automatic failover |
| 21:36:30
| <dominictarr> | interesting. |
| 21:36:31
| <chapel> | e.g. master is usually the first instance up, it transitions based on who is the most trusted |
| 21:36:44
| <dominictarr> | yeah you need sharding + replication |
| 21:36:46
| <chapel> | so you can boot one instance, load another, close the first, and the 2nd will be the new master |
| 21:37:00
| <dominictarr> | what does the master do? |
| 21:37:01
| <chapel> | anyways, its interesting and I'd love to see something like that for node |
| 21:37:15
| <chapel> | tbh, I think its not that important |
| 21:37:22
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| 21:37:23
| <dominictarr> | seems like master could be masterless |
| 21:37:50
| <chapel> | I tried to look for any academic or similar setups I could reference, but its all new to me |
| 21:37:50
| <dominictarr> | I have a module for full text search, that is a start. |
| 21:38:28
| <wolfeidau> | mbalho: Using a common protocol is handy as you can then crack it open in wireshark if something goes awry |
| 21:38:30
| <chapel> | I just think the flexible nature of how it is built would be interesting for node servers |
| 21:39:04
| <chapel> | so Im sure its a gossip protocol, but I don't know the specifics |
| 21:39:19
| <wolfeidau> | mbalho: And the redis protocol is mature and has been out in the wild for a while |
| 21:40:00
| <dominictarr> | chapel: you should read the dynamo paper |
| 21:40:13
| <chapel> | dominictarr: yeah, that and bigtable/mr papers |
| 21:40:36
| <dominictarr> | that has a really interesting discussion of a masterless replication and sharding based architecture |
| 21:41:39
| <chapel> | conceptually I could see masterless replicated node servers using leveldb being a very awesome architecture |
| 21:42:10
| <dominictarr> | workin' on it! |
| 21:42:14
| <chapel> | :D |
| 21:42:31
| <chapel> | keep it up, love the streams work as well |
| 21:42:33
| <mbalho> | i am not the qualified person to hook up leveldb replication with the redis protocol but i happily delegate that task to dominictarr |
| 21:42:53
| <chapel> | mbalho: +1 |
| 21:44:12
| <wolfeidau> | dominictarr: you had a look at the raft paper? |
| 21:44:18
| <dominictarr> | mbalho: you need to arrange someone to cook for me so I have more time to code |
| 21:44:29
| <dominictarr> | wolfeidau: no - I havn't heard of it |
| 21:44:30
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| 21:45:10
| <wolfeidau> | dominictarr: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbZ3zDzDnrw and https://ramcloud.stanford.edu/wiki/download/attachments/11370504/raft.pdf |
| 21:45:45
| <dominictarr> | cool - will watch while I eat dinner |
| 21:45:58
| * chapel | is watching |
| 21:46:13
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| 21:46:37
| <wolfeidau> | It is nice to see a lot of different ideas in this area being so openly presented |
| 21:47:09
| <wolfeidau> | A lot of this stuff used to hide behind the walls of corporations now we all get to hack on it |
| 21:47:24
| <chapel> | yeah for sure wolfeidau |
| 21:47:36
| <isaacs> | Raynos: replied |
| 21:47:38
| <chapel> | very exciting times, increasing tech knowledge for everyone |
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| 21:48:02
| <Raynos> | isaacs: will fix |
| 21:48:07
| <isaacs> | Raynos: thanks |
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| 21:59:26
| <juliangruber> | dominictarr: does redis-protocol-stream support buffers? |
| 21:59:52
| <dominictarr> | yes! |
| 22:00:00
| <juliangruber> | sweet |
| 22:01:28
| <dominictarr> | what I would do, is just get rid of the createStream message from mux-demux |
| 22:01:37
| <juliangruber> | dominictarr: I'm doing just this |
| 22:01:41
| <juliangruber> | so it's just arrays |
| 22:01:42
| <dominictarr> | (which was an object) |
| 22:01:47
| <juliangruber> | and redis-protocol-stream can wrap it |
| 22:02:05
| <dominictarr> | very good! |
| 22:02:06
| <juliangruber> | I just JSON.stringify the object |
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| 22:08:16
| <Raynos> | isaacs: I may have to patch your redis.conf file :/ |
| 22:10:02
| <isaacs> | Raynos: k |
| 22:10:10
| <isaacs> | Raynos: oh, yeah, i think there's a config option that changed recently or something? |
| 22:10:22
| <Raynos> | redis removed vm |
| 22:10:22
| <isaacs> | Raynos: someone sent me a patch for npm-www for something or other |
| 22:10:24
| <isaacs> | don't remember what |
| 22:10:24
| <isaacs> | right |
| 22:10:25
| <Raynos> | and they changed hash thing |
| 22:10:25
| <isaacs> | that |
| 22:10:39
| <Raynos> | http://redis.io/topics/memory-optimization |
| 22:10:45
| <Raynos> | also different names for 2.6 and < 2.6 >_< |
| 22:10:47
| <Raynos> | bullshit |
| 22:12:17
| <juliangruber> | dominictarr: does redis-protocol-stream handle arrays in arrays? |
| 22:13:07
| <dominictarr> | no, it can only be an array on buffers|strings |
| 22:13:12
| <juliangruber> | ok |
| 22:13:46
| <juliangruber> | I fixed mux-demux's new event |
| 22:13:51
| <juliangruber> | now rpc-stream |
| 22:14:07
| <juliangruber> | we said [id, method, args...], right? |
| 22:14:25
| <juliangruber> | atm it is [method, [arg,...], id] |
| 22:19:10
| <juliangruber> | [arg..., method, id] is better |
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| 22:30:36
| <Raynos> | isaacs: how do I squash things? |
| 22:33:11
| <isaacs> | git remote add isaacs git://github.com/isaacs/redsess; git fetch -a isaacs; git rebase -i isaacs/master |
| 22:33:19
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| 22:33:25
| <isaacs> | Raynos: then in the editor, you set the comits to `s` like it says to in the comment |
| 22:33:30
| <isaacs> | Raynos: all but the first one |
| 22:33:46
| <isaacs> | Raynos: or just skip the squash, and only do the rebase |
| 22:34:07
| <Raynos> | if I reorder the lines |
| 22:34:10
| <Raynos> | does hell break lose? |
| 22:34:15
| <isaacs> | Raynos: Best to have one commit forthe cookie-options stuff, and one for the redis conf changes |
| 22:34:21
| <isaacs> | Raynos: no, reordering just reorders the commits |
| 22:34:26
| <isaacs> | Raynos: so... maybe. |
| 22:34:35
| <isaacs> | Raynos: you might get back-and-forth conflicts. |
| 22:34:41
| <isaacs> | Raynos: but usually easy enough to resolve. |
| 22:35:12
| <Raynos> | mother of god |
| 22:35:17
| <Raynos> | ill see what happens |
| 22:35:20
| <Raynos> | i think itll just be worse |
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| 22:42:24
| <Raynos> | Yeah its worse :D |
| 22:42:44
| <Raynos> | this is why I dont use rebase |
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| 22:51:52
| <chapel> | wolfeidau: watched the raft video, not too bad (though youtube kept messing up lol) |
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| 22:56:32
| <Raynos> | isaaacs: https://github.com/isaacs/redsess/pull/5 it will merge cleanly but I ruined the rebase |
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| 22:59:04
| <isaacs> | Raynos: that's kind of awful. |
| 22:59:09
| <isaacs> | r |
| 22:59:12
| <isaacs> | Raynos: you cna fix it. |
| 22:59:21
| <Raynos> | I'll try again |
| 22:59:33
| <isaacs> | Raynos: `git rebase -i 010aac2` |
| 22:59:48
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| 22:59:57
| <chapel> | heh |
| 23:00:16
| <chapel> | <isaacs> I am disappoint. You can do better. |
| 23:00:33
| <chapel> | :) |
| 23:00:47
| <isaacs> | Raynos: delete the ones that are by me, since those are already there |
| 23:00:57
| <isaacs> | ok, gotta run |
| 23:00:59
| <Raynos> | Oh! |
| 23:01:12
| <isaacs> | heading to a metup in paloalto |
| 23:01:31
| * isaacs | & |
| 23:01:31
| <LOUDBOT> | FOUR THREE TWO ONE, I DECLARE A WAR THUMB |
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| 23:10:53
| <juliangruber> | dominictarr: I made mux-demux and rpc-stream use only flat arrays, will create pull requests as soon as it's working with multilevel |
| 23:12:10
| <defunctzombie> | welp, so much for me hosting tryme and balabolka on nodejitsu |
| 23:12:21
| <Raynos> | isaacs: ok first time rebase did want I wanted |
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| 23:14:33
| <dominictarr> | cool - going to bed will merge in the morning! |
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| 23:16:49
| <chapel> | wolfeidau: looks like raft is more C than A in cap, where as dynamo (and similar) is more A than C |
| 23:18:18
| <wolfeidau> | chapel: yeah I am not sure how it will behave, it was my understanding it is probably going to faster for small clusters of servers |
| 23:18:36
| <jesusabdullah> | defunctzombie: why come? |
| 23:18:54
| <chapel> | wolfeidau: well not sure about faster, since it is built to not respond unless a log entry is committed |
| 23:18:55
| <defunctzombie> | jesusabdullah: ? |
| 23:19:09
| <defunctzombie> | jesusabdullah: http://blog.nodejitsu.com/changes-in-nodejitsu-public-cloud |
| 23:19:29
| <wolfeidau> | chapel: the reduction in gossip is what i am referring to speed wise |
| 23:19:33
| <chapel> | so consistency is the first priority which would make the worst case speed slower than something like dynamo |
| 23:19:37
| <chapel> | ah |
| 23:19:42
| <jesusabdullah> | defunctzombie: ah, can't afford? |
| 23:19:46
| <defunctzombie> | jesusabdullah: I was on the 3 drone plan at 9 USD monthly iirc or something like that |
| 23:19:55
| <defunctzombie> | jesusabdullah: not worth it honestly |
| 23:20:06
| <defunctzombie> | jesusabdullah: I can just do digitalocean for 5 USD month |
| 23:20:07
| <jesusabdullah> | defunctzombie: yeah, I'm kinda surprised they never got 64mb machines |
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| 23:20:12
| <jesusabdullah> | yeah defunctzombie |
| 23:20:19
| <chapel> | wolfeidau: yeah, the node to node gossip is less in general since only one master will be talking |
| 23:20:24
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| 23:20:38
| <defunctzombie> | jesusabdullah: I don't really care about "managing" my own server since once I set it up I basically leave it and it works |
| 23:21:03
| <defunctzombie> | jesusabdullah: and with substack's git deployment stuff, I can probably make it even easier than what I do |
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| 23:30:52
| <jesusabdullah> | defunctzombie: yeah, I didn't use nodejitsu after I parted ways with them |
| 23:35:08
| <chilts> | defunctzombie: I started a DigitalOcean server yesterday (by coincidence), and today confirms that I'll be moving stuff off Nodejitsu over to there |
| 23:41:09
| <mbalho> | paul_irish: can you encode/save/export video in JS? either through emscripten or webm or <video> or webgl <canvas> or soemthing? |
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