00:00:00  * ircretaryquit (Remote host closed the connection)
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00:17:54  <Raynos>defunctzbomie, substack: anyone have a good calendar widget?
00:19:01  * rvaggjoined
00:25:31  <defunctzombie>Raynos: nope, there is one in component iirc
00:25:38  <defunctzombie>take that and make it work :)
00:25:40  <Raynos>there are 4 in component :p
00:25:43  <defunctzombie>wow
00:25:46  <defunctzombie>well, pick one haha
00:25:50  <defunctzombie>and make a tryme for it too!
00:25:55  <defunctzombie>so we can see it in action
00:28:09  <Raynos>Ok
00:28:15  <Raynos>So.
00:28:21  <Raynos>I need a tool that auto converts components
00:28:22  <Raynos>into npm
00:28:30  <Raynos>and ill run it on all of component
00:28:32  <Raynos>the entire fucking thing
00:28:41  <Raynos>and prefix their names with `lol-component-`
00:29:43  <defunctzombie>haha
00:30:42  <Raynos>im serious
00:42:02  * st_lukejoined
00:42:05  <dominictarr>Raynos: ++
00:42:18  <Raynos>like there are 4 calendar things in component & 0 in npm -.-
00:42:33  <dominictarr>so, you basically just convert user/repo to the git path
00:42:53  <dominictarr>oh, wait you are gonna publish it
00:43:28  <st_luke>isaacs: after our conversation about bart restrooms I nearly used one
00:43:40  <isaacs>st_luke: hahah
00:43:42  <st_luke>but there was a cone in front of it, seemingly saying "do not use this"
00:44:14  <st_luke>so I had to do the needful
00:44:49  <rvagg>st_luke: you've made my day already with Claude but I was interested to know if he had an opinion on the new pope?
00:44:51  <mbalho>Raynos: do it
00:45:00  <mbalho>st_luke: there are bart restrooms?
00:45:09  <st_luke>mbalho: yes!
00:45:11  <mbalho>wow
00:45:12  <Raynos>I'm porting over component/calendar by hand
00:45:17  <substack>they are closed in the downtown stations
00:45:20  <substack>because of TERRORISM
00:45:29  <st_luke>I saw someone enter one the other day
00:45:31  <Raynos>dominictarr: I think it's better to just republish all of fucking component under a prefix on npm
00:45:35  <st_luke>presumably to use it
00:45:38  <st_luke>hopefully not for terrorism
00:45:41  <Raynos>recursively republish every single one of them
00:45:57  <substack>Raynos: how do you fix the dependency graph?
00:46:18  <st_luke>rvagg: I ended up leaving but I might go back in an hour to get another espresso and if Claude is still there I'll ask him what he thinks about the new Pope
00:46:21  <Raynos>hit the component api get the github, fork, publish to npm then store github -> npm name
00:46:24  <st_luke>but I will probably get the same response that I got about leveldb
00:46:27  <Raynos>Or maybe just machine map it
00:46:41  <Raynos>`{{user}}/{{project}} -> "component~user~project"
00:46:41  * nicholasf0quit (Remote host closed the connection)
00:46:56  <Raynos>then sort all the components in order of "how many deps do you have"
00:47:00  <Raynos>then resort by dependencies
00:47:05  <Raynos>and assume there are no circular ones
00:47:08  <substack>st_luke: sorry I didn't get a chance to say hello, I went to bed late and got up late
00:47:10  <Raynos>maybe just batch publish all of them at once
00:47:12  <Raynos>that would work
00:47:13  <substack>and by that point you were already gone
00:47:15  * nicholasf0joined
00:47:27  <Raynos>then once i'm done publishing them you can install any of them
00:47:37  <st_luke>substack: it's all good, I was exhausted or I'd have stayed up
00:47:40  <st_luke>thanks again
00:47:45  <st_luke>new place is nice
00:47:59  <st_luke>and jjjjohnn1y is a cool dude
00:49:30  <defunctzombie>Raynos: woooo
00:49:37  <defunctzombie>republish all the things!!
00:49:56  <rvagg>Raynos: get components into npm and we'd use them with Ender too
00:50:05  <Raynos>:D
00:50:08  <Raynos>but anyway
00:50:10  <Raynos>this is a weekend project
00:50:15  <Raynos>right now I need a frigging calendar
00:50:19  <defunctzombie>yep
00:50:21  <defunctzombie>so port one
00:50:26  <defunctzombie>should be realtively easy
00:51:56  <dominictarr>juliangruber: so, I need a way that I can make multilevel aware of my plugins
00:52:31  <rvagg>this is why we need internal support for plugins
00:52:32  * shamaquit (Remote host closed the connection)
00:53:00  <dominictarr>rvagg: what do you think about merging sublevel into levelup?
00:53:42  <rvagg>dominictarr: my concern is that it only helps with a limited subset of the problems, I need to put more thought into it but it seems like it might be a leap too far and perhaps we'd be better working on the machinery needed to make sublevel easier to sit on top of levelup
00:54:18  <dominictarr>It depends on what plugins you are envisioning
00:54:45  <Raynos>I hate TJ ;_;
00:54:57  <Raynos>defunctzombie: I'm half rewriting it because it makes me vomit
00:55:05  <defunctzombie>:(
00:55:13  <defunctzombie>don't be a hater
00:57:22  <dominictarr>rvagg: well, maybe just pre/post hooks on ranges
00:58:43  * tmcwjoined
00:59:57  <dominictarr>rvagg: but, it fits most of the plugins I'm expecting to build.
01:00:14  <rvagg>dominictarr: yeah, I hear that and perhaps you're right
01:00:23  <rvagg>it just seems like a very specific kind of abstraction
01:00:39  <guybrush>just use fullcalendar?
01:01:03  <guybrush>oh i forgot you dont like anything but ultrasmart node-modules :p
01:02:22  <guybrush>wow there is even a package.json now! https://github.com/arshaw/fullcalendar
01:02:33  <guybrush>oh its kinda not so usefull
01:03:40  * tmcwquit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
01:11:08  <Raynos>defunctzombie: i'm not hating. I'm just vomiting
01:11:33  <Raynos>guybrush: fullcalendar is full :P
01:11:41  <Raynos>its huge.
01:12:00  <guybrush>Raynos: i used it a lot :) but i understand what you mean
01:12:11  <Raynos>i mean the UX isn't suitable
01:12:13  <Raynos>I want a datepicker
01:12:14  <Raynos>not a calendar
01:12:19  <guybrush>ah
01:12:29  <guybrush>like the one in jquery-ui? :DDD
01:12:35  <Raynos>defunctzombie: http://tryme.jit.su/Raynos/calendar/examples/simple.js
01:12:42  <Raynos>guybrush: I am vomit
01:13:20  <guybrush>the thing with client-modules i still dont get, how do you do style/theming
01:13:24  <defunctzombie>Raynos: Y it no load?
01:13:28  <Raynos>that's a seperate problem
01:13:33  <Raynos>defunctzombie: your bug :D
01:13:37  <defunctzombie>:(
01:13:44  <Raynos>oh wait
01:13:47  <Raynos>invalid package.json
01:14:17  <defunctzombie>Raynos:
01:14:20  <defunctzombie>logs say SyntaxError: Unexpected token }
01:14:24  <Raynos>yeah
01:14:28  <Raynos>fixing the package.json :P
01:14:31  <defunctzombie>we should fix that
01:14:35  <defunctzombie>to not fail like this
01:14:43  <Raynos>re-pushed
01:14:58  <Raynos>defunctzombie: use domains <trollface>
01:15:04  <defunctzombie>sigh
01:15:14  <defunctzombie>it should just not fail!!!
01:15:19  <defunctzombie>I will fix it
01:15:21  <Raynos>:)
01:15:36  <guybrush>Raynos: styling/theming is not a seperate problem! client-modules are more than just input/output of data
01:15:50  <Raynos>guybrush: styling is a seperate problem. you just do it
01:15:53  <guybrush>its about UI/UX which is styling
01:16:13  <st_luke>isaacs: <3 `curl github.com/user/project/pulls/12345.pach | git am`
01:16:40  <defunctzombie>https://github.com/ncb000gt/node.bcrypt.js/issues/150
01:16:46  <defunctzombie>THIS MAKES ME RAGE SO HARD!!!
01:16:50  <defunctzombie>who the fuck opens issues like this
01:16:55  <defunctzombie>not a single fucking comment, nothing
01:17:03  <defunctzombie>just like.. oh here.. have this useless output
01:17:13  <defunctzombie>I am too stupid to figure it out, you waste your time
01:17:28  <defunctzombie>you don't have anything better to do than install windows NT
01:17:33  <st_luke>defunctzombie: someone opened an npm issue about the same thing with bcrypt, I couldn't reproduce it though
01:17:35  <defunctzombie>and retrace my steps
01:17:39  * CryptoQuickquit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
01:17:51  <defunctzombie>st_luke: that is bcrypt
01:18:03  <isaacs>st_luke: yeah, it's baller
01:18:05  <isaacs>github rocks
01:18:07  <defunctzombie>st_luke: and of course you couldn't, cause you probably didn't do something stupid
01:18:15  * owen1quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
01:18:48  <st_luke>defunctzombie: the issue was he couldn't do npm rebuild after upgrading to v0.10, I had some free time in the airport so I installed bcrypt on v0.8.22 then switched over to v0.10 and rebuilt and it worked like a charm
01:19:03  <defunctzombie>probably some bad state
01:19:09  <defunctzombie>whenever I encounter build issues
01:19:09  <st_luke>I wonder how many issues are because someone has a weird homebrew install or something else like that, probably a lot
01:19:16  <defunctzombie>I always blow away node_modules
01:19:21  <st_luke>yeah same here
01:19:23  <st_luke>I mean why not?
01:19:26  <st_luke>you have literally nothing to lose
01:19:26  <defunctzombie>people panic or some shit for some reason
01:19:29  <defunctzombie>yea, I dunno
01:19:31  <defunctzombie>they are scared
01:20:07  <defunctzombie>Raynos: http://tryme.jit.su/Raynos/calendar/examples/simple.js
01:20:09  <guybrush>defunctzombie: when someone takes the time to copy the error-msg and put it into an issue, thats anything but unacceptable or rude
01:20:09  <defunctzombie>broken!
01:20:25  <defunctzombie>guybrush: I don't agree
01:20:31  <defunctzombie>guybrush: you have to *think* first
01:20:32  <st_luke>there are some issues in node that can be solved just by deleting node modules and starting over, it's really easy, but someone runs into this extreme edge case and goes oh that better be fixed or im gonna be fucked someday never
01:20:36  <defunctzombie>take a moment to read the error
01:20:43  <defunctzombie>guybrush: and you *must* give context
01:20:57  <defunctzombie>guybrush: error logs like this are not context
01:21:02  * HM2quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
01:21:08  <defunctzombie>guybrush: I am doing this guy and every issue he ever reports to a favor
01:21:17  <defunctzombie>guybrush: by telling him that he needs to do better
01:21:31  <mikolalysenko>I just looked at the issue, I think the guy doesn't speak english very well...
01:21:37  <defunctzombie>guybrush: I didn't tell him to just fuck off, I listed things he could mention to be better
01:21:44  <defunctzombie>mikolalysenko: sure, and that is fine
01:21:49  <defunctzombie>mikolalysenko: I did not make fun of his language
01:21:50  <st_luke>anyway, I'm just glad npm issues are under 300, hopefully when I have more free time in the future I an kill the rest of the year old "can't install socket.io on node 0.6 with npm beta" issues
01:21:55  <defunctzombie>mikolalysenko: but he didn't write ANYTHING
01:22:03  <mikolalysenko>yeah, but maybe he just doesn't know how to write anything.
01:22:08  <defunctzombie>yea
01:22:13  <mikolalysenko>but I totally agree that opening that issue is useless
01:22:13  <defunctzombie>and that is why you have to say that
01:22:21  <defunctzombie>and be very clear to the person
01:22:36  <Raynos>defunctzombie: that breaks because domify is wrong
01:22:42  <Raynos>I think this may be a lol global state bug with window.eval
01:22:55  <defunctzombie>haha
01:23:07  <defunctzombie>https://github.com/shtylman/domify
01:23:10  <defunctzombie>I forked domify
01:23:15  <defunctzombie>to make it return a document fragment
01:23:19  <defunctzombie>seems better to me
01:23:23  <defunctzombie>haven't used that version yet tho
01:23:36  <defunctzombie>var css = require("../lib/calendar.css") wtf?
01:23:51  <defunctzombie>just put a style.css file in the example
01:23:54  <defunctzombie>and it will be loaded
01:23:55  <Raynos>defunctzombie: the problem is
01:24:00  <Raynos>defunctzombie: FUCK DAT SHIT YO
01:24:05  <defunctzombie>you don't need to inject this crap
01:24:07  <Raynos>defunctzombie: IF ITS NOT JS I AINT USING IT
01:24:17  <defunctzombie>npm-css is used for you and such
01:24:18  <Raynos>I will look into the domify issue
01:25:21  <Raynos>defunctzombie: It bundled the wrogn version of domify somehow
01:25:35  <defunctzombie>haha
01:29:45  <Raynos>defunctzombie: I updated https://github.com/Raynos/calendar
01:29:50  <Raynos>when does tryme update?
01:29:57  <defunctzombie>right away I think
01:30:06  * jan____quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
01:30:10  <defunctzombie>it always tries to pull latest first iirc
01:30:18  <defunctzombie>maybe not
01:30:19  <defunctzombie>haha
01:30:37  <Raynos>it doesnt update :(
01:30:38  <Raynos>anyway
01:30:42  <Raynos>I should have fixed the thing
01:30:47  <defunctzombie>k
01:30:47  <Raynos>god my eyes ;_; they bleed
01:30:55  <defunctzombie>does it work?
01:31:53  * marcello3dquit (Remote host closed the connection)
01:33:31  <Raynos>well tryme wont update yet
01:33:39  <Raynos>TRYME Y U NO NEW CODE
01:36:13  <Raynos>anyway this is good enough for now
01:41:30  * HM2joined
01:42:27  <st_luke>ah crap, love when I don't work in branches and obliterate commits because I'm not paying attention
01:42:35  <st_luke>guess ill write that code again sometime
01:44:49  <st_luke>god dammit
01:52:15  <defunctzombie>haha
01:52:26  <defunctzombie>Raynos: tryme needs to re-check after some time
01:52:39  <defunctzombie>right now it doesn't for git repos
01:52:53  <defunctzombie>if it sees the folder there it won't re-git it
01:56:27  * thl0joined
02:02:13  <Raynos>defunctzombie: what?
02:02:30  <defunctzombie>who?
02:03:39  * marcello3djoined
02:05:10  <Raynos>defunctzombie: so how do I update its? :(
02:05:18  <Raynos>crash tryme so it restarts xd
02:05:37  <defunctzombie>that is one way to do it haha
02:05:43  <defunctzombie>lets see.. how can I crash it
02:05:55  <defunctzombie>oh wait.. I think I can just restart it
02:05:57  <defunctzombie>from jitsu cli
02:06:32  <Raynos>yeah :P
02:06:55  <Raynos>also from their website gui
02:07:33  <defunctzombie>http://tryme.jit.su/Raynos/calendar/examples/simple.js
02:07:34  <defunctzombie>wooo
02:07:35  <defunctzombie>works
02:07:42  <defunctzombie>awesome
02:07:51  <defunctzombie>this require.css thing is fucked up but otherwise quite cool
02:08:00  <Raynos>its fine
02:08:05  <Raynos>require("x.css.js") :D
02:08:09  <defunctzombie>if you add style field to package.json
02:08:14  <defunctzombie>then it will just load
02:08:19  <Raynos>its a hack
02:08:20  <Raynos>i care not
02:08:22  <defunctzombie>if you require('calendar');
02:08:26  <Raynos>about optionated css things
02:08:37  <defunctzombie>sigh
02:08:48  <defunctzombie>well, how are you gonna use the css?
02:08:52  <defunctzombie>injecting head tags is stupid
02:08:59  <defunctzombie>in a real app
02:09:02  <defunctzombie>too much work
02:09:12  <defunctzombie>and noise for the example too
02:09:19  * tmcwjoined
02:09:38  <defunctzombie>pretty cool component tho
02:09:44  <defunctzombie>publish it!!
02:10:21  <defunctzombie>was calendar npm name already taken?
02:10:28  <defunctzombie>maybe do calendar-widget
02:11:02  * tmcwquit (Remote host closed the connection)
02:11:20  <st_luke>mkcalendar
02:11:43  <defunctzombie>or that
02:11:51  <defunctzombie>calendar-widget is a bit clearer
02:12:00  <defunctzombie>mkcalendar could be some thing that makes calendars or whatnot
02:13:49  <defunctzombie>http://component.io/
02:13:52  <defunctzombie>this is pretty hot
02:14:15  <st_luke>can't remember is there a way to list all of an authors packages with npm
02:14:36  <st_luke>nice website
02:14:46  <st_luke>tj is a pretty good designer
02:15:50  <defunctzombie>yea
02:25:13  <Raynos>defunctzombie: out of scope of the demo
02:25:16  <Raynos>use whatever is suitable
02:25:30  <Raynos>defunctzombie: it's raynos-calendar
02:25:30  <defunctzombie>?
02:25:42  <defunctzombie>just saying the demo could be simpler
02:25:48  <Raynos>agreed
02:25:49  <defunctzombie>less lines haha
02:25:57  <defunctzombie>cause of how tryme will load the css for you
02:26:00  <substack>old blog articles 100% ported
02:26:11  <Raynos>st_luke: `npm search =raynos`
02:26:44  <substack>finishing this new blog stuff then getting streaming updates and pending badges for testling-ci
02:27:06  <substack>and if I'm feeling particularly adventurous, animated gif long polling for REALTIME
02:27:22  <Raynos>xd
02:27:28  <defunctzombie>wooooooo
02:27:33  <defunctzombie>pkrumins: https?
02:27:42  <Raynos>defunctzombie: can you turn tryme demos into a gif :P
02:27:49  <defunctzombie>wut
02:27:49  <Raynos>so i can embed them in my README's
02:27:51  <substack>the ssl people were supposed to call me today to verify but I haven't heard anything yet
02:27:59  <defunctzombie>Raynos: can you put iframes in your readmes?
02:28:02  <st_luke>Raynos: that works well enough but if a username is part of another you get those also
02:28:07  <substack>ssl certs are such a fundamentally broken idea
02:28:14  <Raynos>st_luke: true
02:28:18  <defunctzombie>substack: best not start down that path hahaha
02:28:36  <substack>defunctzombie: I just wish they worked like ssh where every server self-signed
02:28:37  <Raynos>defunctzombie: never tried, but presume no
02:28:50  <defunctzombie>substack: not good
02:28:54  <defunctzombie>Raynos: I presume no as well
02:29:01  <defunctzombie>Raynos: just make a screenshot and link to tryme
02:29:02  <st_luke>Raynos: well enough to get what I'm looking for, maybe ill write a feature to do npm author sugar sometime
02:29:04  <defunctzombie>that is why it exists
02:29:22  <defunctzombie>substack: if everything was self signed you can't detect MiM iirc
02:29:23  <Raynos>defunctzombie: I prefer to embed `tryme.com/raynos/graphics.gif`
02:29:33  <defunctzombie>haha
02:29:39  <st_luke>the entire SSL industry is fucking racketeering
02:29:43  <defunctzombie>not sure what the gif would do
02:29:46  <defunctzombie>just screenshot?
02:29:58  <Raynos>defunctzombie: it should be real time! :p whatever that means
02:30:01  <defunctzombie>substack: you have to think about end user
02:30:02  <Raynos>spawn a webkit instance
02:30:06  <defunctzombie>wut
02:30:07  <st_luke>"hey buy from us we will tell your people that you are trustworthy because we are trustworthy (sort of)"
02:30:08  <Raynos>and stream the state of the browser
02:30:12  <defunctzombie>Raynos: realtime to what...
02:30:14  <defunctzombie>what browser?
02:30:25  <Raynos>defunctzombie: :D who knows.
02:30:31  <Raynos>this would only work for time based demos
02:30:34  <defunctzombie>yea.. who knows
02:30:34  <Raynos>that are just loops
02:30:36  <substack>defunctzombie: the problem is that SSL is really hard and frustrating to configure so tons of people just use plain http
02:30:38  <Raynos>without user interaction
02:30:39  <defunctzombie>Raynos: now.. screenshot of loaded page
02:30:43  <defunctzombie>Raynos: that could be cool
02:30:46  <substack>https isn't just the default thing that everybody does because it's easy
02:30:52  <defunctzombie>Raynos: and easy to do with phantomjs stuff I think
02:30:56  <substack>and THAT is far more dangerous to security
02:31:03  <defunctzombie>substack: I find https super easy
02:31:23  <st_luke>https isn't hard for people that use out of the box web servers
02:31:26  <Raynos>https is easy
02:31:28  <defunctzombie>substack: it isn't 0 work
02:31:31  <Raynos>you ask your coworker to get some certs
02:31:34  <Raynos>drop them in
02:31:34  <defunctzombie>substack: but it also isn't something crazy
02:31:35  <Raynos>done
02:31:43  <defunctzombie>substack: ive deployed many things with https
02:31:59  * defunctzombieis biased because I usually run 1 person top-to-bottom operations haha
02:32:01  <st_luke>Raynos: a lot of people fuck their shit up because they don't have CA chain stuff set up correctly, and browsers are inconsistent when it comes to complaining about that
02:32:10  <defunctzombie>yes
02:32:21  <Raynos>just buy a cert from godaddy
02:32:27  <Raynos>and drop it into your apache folder
02:32:27  <st_luke>like someone buying a $6.95 SSL cert doesn't understand that they have to set up other shit so some browsers know where to go to check for validity of the cert
02:32:54  <st_luke>Raynos: that's not good enough
02:32:56  <st_luke>godaddy is a reseller
02:33:10  <mbalho>dominictarr: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhEFVBGqI10
02:33:14  <st_luke>if you just drop in your .crt and .key or even if you're lucky a .pem then you're missing part of the chain
02:34:29  <st_luke>actually im not sure currently if godaddy is officially a CA or if they just resell like a lot of other places
02:34:34  <dominictarr>mbalho: I saw dolphins crossing the cook strait once!
02:34:35  <defunctzombie>buy a cert from namecheap
02:34:38  <defunctzombie>you can use bitcoins!!
02:35:40  * marcello3dquit (Remote host closed the connection)
02:36:03  <st_luke>if you're buying an ssl cert for 10 bucks and some jerkoff like microsoft doesn't identify at as a 'trusted root' then you can't just set it without an intermediary certificate
02:36:18  <st_luke>it's such overcomplicated bullshit that I'm glad I don't deal with regularly anymore, but it's a huge headache for a lot of people that don't understand it
02:37:15  <st_luke>the last thing you want is a browser warning for your [for profit] app saying the domain is invalid, those things are basically telling users "you will get a computer virus that is going to steal your identity if you click continue and probably kill your dog"
02:37:43  <st_luke>so glad i dont do ops anymore
02:38:01  <st_luke>fuck ssl write code
02:38:57  <substack>peer to peer crypto
02:39:05  <substack>I need to look more at pgp when I get some time
02:39:14  <substack>it seems like it has a lot of the correct ideas about this kind of thing
02:40:14  <Raynos>hello LOUDBOT
02:41:55  <defunctzombie>substack: it doesn't really
02:42:01  <defunctzombie>it is too complex to use
02:42:05  * thl0quit (Remote host closed the connection)
02:42:13  <defunctzombie>it has some interesting ideas but is unusuable
02:42:16  <defunctzombie>for most people
02:42:27  <defunctzombie>st_luke: namecheap always gives me the intermediary certs
02:42:33  <defunctzombie>I know what order to put them in now haha
02:43:02  <substack>the biggest problem in crypto is that many people aren't using crypto
02:43:15  <substack>I don't think enough people get that
02:43:20  <substack>especially crypto nerds
02:43:21  <st_luke>defunctzombie: they give them to you but most people go "wtf is this and where do I put it in my apache httpd.conf im so confused"
02:43:26  <defunctzombie>yep
02:44:05  * ins0mniaquit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
02:47:20  <substack>what is up with numbers in passwords
02:47:24  <substack>that is the stupidest thing
02:47:27  <substack>fuck numbers
02:47:54  <substack>I would be ok with requiring one non-single byte utf8 character
02:48:09  <substack>but numbers are completely dumb
02:50:49  <dominictarr>juliangruber: there are a few things that can be simplified in multilevel
02:52:01  <st_luke>defunctzombie: when will bitcoins crash again so I can buy like 1k worth as an experiment
02:54:18  <dominictarr>http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#tgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
02:54:44  <dominictarr>looks like it's getting a bit steep
02:55:10  <dominictarr>I mean, I don't know much about finance, but that looks like unsustainable growth to me
02:55:55  <defunctzombie>st_luke: who knows :D
02:56:07  <dominictarr>If I had purchased a lot of bit coin, like a year ago you could sell and be pretty happy
02:56:51  <defunctzombie>substack: I just use 'pass' these days
02:57:04  <defunctzombie>substack: http://zx2c4.com/projects/password-store/
02:57:09  <defunctzombie>been meaning to write a chrome plugin
02:57:14  <defunctzombie>for password stuff
02:57:18  <dominictarr>st_luke: it's trippled in value since jan
02:57:19  <defunctzombie>but am too busy
03:00:43  <st_luke>dominictarr: yeah, if it goes down a bit I'll jump on to see what happens
03:00:49  <st_luke>but ideally it will crash and I can get them super cheap
03:01:19  <dominictarr>st_luke: that is what everyone is thinking.
03:01:52  <st_luke>i dont really have any investments in stuff because im dumb financially so i figure bitcoin is a good place to start for someone that makes poor financial decisions
03:02:14  <dominictarr>st_luke: there is a story about the great depression
03:02:44  <st_luke>dominictarr: i was also thinking about buying gold bars and putting them in a safe deposit box somewhere, but i dont think im a crazy person
03:02:47  <dominictarr>one day, john kennedy gets asked for stock tips -- by his shoe shine boy!
03:02:47  <st_luke>yet
03:03:24  <dominictarr>and he figures, if shoe shine boys are getting into the stock market, then everything has gone crazy
03:03:43  <dominictarr>and he gets his money out, and then the market crashes....
03:04:06  <dominictarr>st_luke: I thought it was illegal for US citizens to hoard gold?
03:04:22  <dominictarr>st_luke: get quad copter parts
03:04:39  <st_luke>dominictarr: it might be but i dont really care, there are other things I can get arrested for if they really want to come after me
03:04:56  <dominictarr>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102
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03:05:36  <st_luke>fuck FDR, he was just pissed off polio fucked up his life
03:05:43  <dominictarr>st_luke: sure, deal drugs, or commit murder, but don't mess with the tax man.
03:05:58  <st_luke>dominictarr: I'm actually terrified of the tax man
03:06:06  <dominictarr>you should be
03:06:08  <st_luke>I owe new york state and city almost 4k combined
03:06:19  <dominictarr>he has terrifying powers!
03:06:21  <st_luke>fucking sucks
03:06:28  <st_luke>it makes me want to leave
03:06:40  <dominictarr>st_luke: anyway, this isn't just about gold -
03:07:08  <dominictarr>1933 is about the time the US went from the gold standard to a fiat currency
03:07:49  <st_luke>I'm not an insane gold person but I think gold is the best way to make it inconvenient for me to spend money
03:08:06  <dominictarr>right, that makes sense
03:08:32  <dominictarr>according to the article you can own upto 100 g of gold, which is $7k
03:08:42  <dominictarr>sorry, 160g
03:09:07  <st_luke>my impulse control financially is pretty bad, ideally I'd like to avoid the 'shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves' idiom
03:09:27  <st_luke>dominictarr: not really super great
03:09:32  <substack>relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELEwjVRxxGE
03:09:33  <st_luke>dominictarr: but I wonder if you can own more as a company
03:09:56  <st_luke>dominictarr: my LLC paperwork just came back, now I'm a business owner in Delaware
03:10:04  <st_luke>so maybe I can say it's the property of HT IN ET, LLC
03:14:38  <dominictarr>st_luke: crypto-currency wants a crypto-company
03:16:38  <st_luke>has anyone used 99designs.com ?
03:16:55  <substack>imagine if a company was just a piece of software that had the capability to reward improvements to itself monetarily in proportion to the amount of value created
03:16:57  <st_luke>most of the logo people I know cost a couple thousand at least and I can't really afford that for a logo
03:17:11  <substack>st_luke: I can make logos!
03:17:44  <st_luke>substack: would you be interested in giving me a quote for something if I can give you some general details for what I'm looking for?
03:17:46  <st_luke>it's for my LLC
03:17:51  <dominictarr>st_luke: ascii logo
03:18:04  <substack>st_luke: yep sure
03:18:22  <st_luke>basically i really like thing thing russia sent up to the moon a long time ago, luna 2: http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/image/luna_2.jpg
03:18:36  <substack>that is so rad
03:19:08  <st_luke>and my LLC is titled "HT IN ET"
03:19:15  <substack>the logo I made for defunctzombie took me 25 minutes
03:19:29  <substack>or no, it was just 20
03:19:34  <st_luke>so i thought it would be cool to have kinda strong lettering right above/below a schematic style sketch of something that looks like that image
03:19:49  <st_luke>like remember the schematics on the wall at stackhouse
03:19:52  <st_luke>those were awesome
03:20:51  <st_luke>substack: but if that sounds like something you would be interested in let me know and PM me how much you think it would cost
03:21:00  <st_luke>my company doesn't do anything but I guess I need a logo
03:25:04  <defunctzombie>substack: make a bitcoin wallet yet?
03:25:33  <substack>I'll get to that soon
03:25:35  * substackdrawing
03:25:37  <defunctzombie>:)
03:26:11  <Raynos>https://gist.github.com/Raynos/0b519f16572ddb924084
03:26:11  <dominictarr>juliangruber: I'm thinking that probably what we need is just an easy way to configure, extend, a levelup client, and then improve that later - maybe follow a convention so that it's automatic
03:26:15  <Raynos>I keep copy & pasting that around
03:26:35  <dominictarr>-- although I think it might be necessary to have code running on both sides.
03:26:49  <Raynos>how do I stop doing that
03:28:13  * dominictarrquit (Quit: dominictarr)
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04:00:19  <defunctzombie>https://github.com/bitfloor/nacha
04:00:24  <defunctzombie>anyone work in banking hahahah
04:00:35  <defunctzombie>node.js can now send your money in the US interbank system
04:01:33  <st_luke>mbalho: gonna start working on taco conf east stuff soon now that my company stuff is filed and I can get insurance
04:06:09  <defunctzombie>I have finally started to see what I can pull out of the bitfloor codebase into modules
04:06:19  <defunctzombie>nacha, hopefully the first of some more random modules haha
04:14:07  <rvagg>next time someone makes a Node video with mikeal, do it in this style: http://youtu.be/pii4G8FkCA4 - dramatic & serious about something that's essentially whimsical and trivial
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04:27:50  <jesusabdullah>uuuugh this is the worst cold ever
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04:33:53  <jesusabdullah>In other news http://www.theonion.com/articles/arm-hammer-representative-starting-to-wonder-what,31639
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05:02:21  <dominictarr>Raynos: it is easy to make animations with Raynos/graphics?
05:02:42  <dominictarr>I want to make animation of how leveldb works
05:03:21  <dominictarr>with colours as key values - so the SST are RAINBOWS
05:04:51  * mikolalysenkoquit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
05:05:41  <defunctzombie>macports is updating
05:05:48  <defunctzombie>my macbook air sounds like it is gonna take off
05:11:23  <substack>http://substack.net/images/ht_in_et.png
05:11:27  <substack>aforementioned logo from earlier
05:14:44  <substack>the smart machine I just provisioned on joyent is still at "provisioning" after 2 hours :(
05:15:36  <substack>isaacs: how long does provisioning usually take?
05:16:59  <st_luke>substack: last time I did one it took like a minute
05:17:19  <substack>!
05:17:28  <substack>how do I cancel it so I can try afresh?
05:17:55  <rvagg>yeah, should be nice and quick
05:18:15  <jesusabdullah>what is an htinet
05:18:21  <rvagg>join #joyent and rage
05:18:25  <defunctzombie>st_luke: wtf is puid?
05:18:32  <defunctzombie>st_luke: just use uuid ?
05:19:03  <st_luke>https://github.com/broofa/node-uuid ?
05:19:13  <defunctzombie>st_luke: yea
05:19:19  <defunctzombie>st_luke: I forked it and published as the uuid module
05:19:44  <st_luke>what's the name of the one you published?
05:19:44  <defunctzombie>st_luke: the puid guy should be told that uuid exists
05:19:49  <defunctzombie>and to not reinvent this
05:19:50  <jesusabdullah>broofaaaaa -_-;
05:19:55  <jesusabdullah>he was a hoarders hater
05:19:55  <defunctzombie>st_luke: uuid
05:20:03  <jesusabdullah>THAT SAID I do appreciate what uuid does
05:20:06  <defunctzombie>st_luke: it is this same module except published under the uuid name
05:20:08  <jesusabdullah>EVEN SO he was STILL a HATER
05:20:10  <jesusabdullah>>:O
05:20:12  <defunctzombie>yea
05:20:18  <defunctzombie>and he doesn't really maintain it I think
05:20:25  <defunctzombie>so I got control of the uuid npm module
05:20:28  <defunctzombie>to publish updates
05:20:42  <jesusabdullah>I see
05:20:42  <st_luke>defunctzombie: are you not on the contrib list in npm or am i looking at the wrong one
05:20:43  <st_luke>npm view uuid
05:20:57  <defunctzombie>https://npmjs.org/package/uuid
05:21:16  <st_luke>wtf
05:21:23  <st_luke>it doesn't list you as a maintainer on the cli output
05:21:51  <st_luke>ah
05:21:51  <defunctzombie>heh
05:21:57  <st_luke>npm add owner doesn't add you to the package.json maybe/
05:22:03  <defunctzombie>I will publish an update now
05:22:09  <defunctzombie>cause the new readme needs to be out there
05:22:16  <st_luke>i guess that makes sense cause it shouldn't change a package's contents really
05:23:44  <defunctzombie>yea
05:24:07  <jesusabdullah>st_luke: I'm not crazy for disliking strict mode right? o__o
05:24:10  <Raynos>dominictarr: not yet
05:24:12  <jesusabdullah>st_luke: sometimes I feel like I'm crazy
05:24:16  <st_luke>jesusabdullah: nah, no worries
05:24:34  <Raynos>you can create coloured boxes
05:24:37  <Raynos>that follow your mouse :D
05:24:47  <jesusabdullah>srsly what's the point?
05:24:54  <jesusabdullah>I don't understand AJ's argument ;__;
05:25:09  <jesusabdullah>and like believe it or not I *want* to
05:25:09  <dominictarr>I don't them to move I think, just update as I move things on arrays
05:25:09  <defunctzombie>?
05:25:43  <st_luke>jesusabdullah: he's being an idiot
05:25:51  <st_luke>trying to make a parade around something that is largely unimportant
05:26:15  <jesusabdullah>*whew* thank goodness!
05:26:33  <defunctzombie>st_luke: published 1.4.1
05:26:38  <st_luke>defunctzombie: sweet
05:26:39  <defunctzombie>so now I show up
05:26:40  <st_luke>I will unstar the other one
05:26:43  <defunctzombie>also has browser field
05:26:46  <jesusabdullah>I'd be down if I saw a real example of where "use strict" at the global scope saved someone's ass
05:26:49  <defunctzombie>so you can use browserify
05:26:55  <defunctzombie>st_luke: we should tell the other dude
05:27:03  <jesusabdullah>ugh I should not watch home and garden TV it makes me want to buy a house and rennovate it
05:27:04  <defunctzombie>st_luke: he probably doesn't know about uuid's or something
05:27:07  <Raynos>jesusabdullah: strict mode is cool
05:27:09  <Raynos>i want to use it
05:27:10  <defunctzombie>st_luke: sounds like he is making up things
05:27:14  <Raynos>but its bullshit boilerplate
05:27:24  <defunctzombie>jesusabdullah: "use strict" should not exist in code
05:27:35  <defunctzombie>jesusabdullah: it is for tools to use and environments to set
05:27:39  <Raynos>and a pain in the ass
05:27:42  <jesusabdullah>Raynos: yeah but you'd want to scope it to your module right? not run it globally? because I mean I'm not writing MY modules in strict mode and AS FAR AS I KNOW it's TOTALLY COOL
05:27:48  <st_luke>defunctzombie: I'll let you take care of that comment, as I imagine it will start an argument on the githubs
05:27:56  <Raynos>oh lol
05:27:56  <defunctzombie>oh jesus
05:27:57  <substack>I verify correctness with tests
05:27:59  <Raynos>global scrict mode
05:28:02  <Raynos>is for dem trolls
05:28:08  <jesusabdullah>idk defunctzombie I just try to write sane code I don't feel like I need linting or strict modes
05:28:17  <substack>I really don't care what the code even looks like so long as there isn't very much of it in a single place
05:28:20  <jesusabdullah>for all I know my code would run just find with a strict mode flag
05:28:25  <st_luke>if you're pushing for global use strict then you don't understand why it was implemented in the manner in which it was to begin with
05:28:26  <defunctzombie>jesusabdullah: you do
05:28:33  <defunctzombie>jesusabdullah: over time some of it matters more
05:28:44  <defunctzombie>jesusabdullah: and for larger projects with multiple people certain things are different
05:28:50  <defunctzombie>small personal projects less so
05:28:56  <st_luke>I didn't think there was this much confusion about use strict
05:29:05  <jesusabdullah>yeah substack and like I don't want to throw away a perfectly good module because it's not strict-compliant
05:29:17  <jesusabdullah>substack: tests and real-world use should be more than enough amirite
05:29:27  <substack>same
05:29:51  <defunctzombie>st_luke: https://github.com/pid/puid/issues/1
05:29:52  <jesusabdullah>goodness
05:29:59  <jesusabdullah>I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking like this
05:30:03  <jesusabdullah>I tried to explain it
05:30:08  <defunctzombie>I will not throw away modules that are not strict
05:30:21  <defunctzombie>but if it isn't, I will investigate why not to see if it matters
05:30:22  <jesusabdullah>I still wish I understood dudebro's argument
05:30:26  <jesusabdullah>even if I think he's wrong
05:30:33  <defunctzombie>what is the argument?
05:30:55  <st_luke>defunctzombie: I added in my seal of approval
05:31:13  <defunctzombie>haha
05:31:20  <jesusabdullah>uhhh I don't understand it defunctzombie so lemme find a link to the thread and you can SEE 4 URSELF
05:31:21  <defunctzombie>I love the github stream
05:31:24  <defunctzombie>I discover so many things
05:31:32  <jesusabdullah>https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en%3Fhl%3Den&fromgroups=#!topic/nodejs/rV8ujM-U52g
05:31:34  <defunctzombie>by following people
05:31:35  <jesusabdullah>defunctzombie: ^^
05:35:22  <defunctzombie>I mean, sure
05:35:31  <defunctzombie>strict mode will catch certain errors
05:35:38  <defunctzombie>I am all for running with it
05:36:08  <defunctzombie>I just think it is silly to put that in files
05:36:08  <jesusabdullah>I guess I can see running something with strict mode to check for warnings so to speak
05:36:31  <jesusabdullah>what kind of errors are we talking about?
05:36:33  <defunctzombie>if you think of strict mode as the mode that should have been
05:36:46  <jesusabdullah>yeah, I don't have that mindset at all
05:36:58  <jesusabdullah>to be fair I don't fully know what things strict mode is strict about
05:37:07  <defunctzombie>https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/JavaScript/Reference/Functions_and_function_scope/Strict_mode
05:37:15  <jesusabdullah>mostly because at one point I saw something that it was strict about that I thought was dumb and wrote it off
05:37:32  <defunctzombie>that mindset comes with working on systems with many parts over time with many developers
05:38:23  <jesusabdullah>oh, octal syntax
05:38:27  <jesusabdullah>that's the one I thought was dumb
05:39:00  <defunctzombie>octal is rarely useful
05:39:11  <defunctzombie>and looks weird cause of the confusion it causes with numbers
05:39:25  <defunctzombie>it is a C ism carry over
05:39:52  <jesusabdullah>yeah but it's sometimes useful and that's enough for me
05:39:54  <jesusabdullah>example: file perms
05:40:13  <defunctzombie>put it in a string?
05:40:23  <jesusabdullah>idk man, like I'll accept that this more or less enforces good practice
05:40:51  <jesusabdullah>but like, I guess I don't have much sympathy for people that run into most of these problems
05:41:15  <defunctzombie>I do
05:41:20  <defunctzombie>I have lots of sympathy
05:41:26  <jesusabdullah>why?
05:41:30  <defunctzombie>because I have run into random issues myself
05:41:37  <defunctzombie>and there is no reason why you should
05:41:42  <defunctzombie>if you write to a non writable field
05:41:49  <defunctzombie>that should not silently move on
05:42:00  <defunctzombie>it will make debugging very hard
05:42:08  <defunctzombie>and debugging is harder than writing the code in the first place
05:42:15  <defunctzombie>which means that if you are barely smart enough to write it
05:42:21  <defunctzombie>you are not smart enough to debug it :)
05:42:35  <jesusabdullah>so like I think that's a reasonable argument for function or module-scoped strict mode
05:42:44  <jesusabdullah>just not global strict mode
05:42:53  <jesusabdullah>that's just so...
05:42:57  <jesusabdullah>...totalitarian.
05:43:12  <defunctzombie>meh
05:43:15  <jesusabdullah>I take my free speech rights in javascript seriously dammit
05:43:16  <defunctzombie>people write shitty code
05:43:26  <defunctzombie>everyone does what they think is right to try to protect themselves
05:43:28  <defunctzombie>haha
05:43:44  <substack>defunctzombie: ok I made a wallet!
05:44:09  <substack>196A7czbZum2nKNNwhHDeFcaGdacxPwfPB
05:45:02  <jesusabdullah>that is not a wallet that is a string of garblemesh
05:45:07  <substack>haha
05:45:34  <defunctzombie>substack: in blockchain.info?
05:45:36  <substack>yep
05:45:38  <jesusabdullah>seriously tho, bitcoin?
05:45:42  <jesusabdullah><--luddite
05:46:00  <jesusabdullah>Marak invested in bitcoins some time ago, it's worked out pretty well for him so far actually!
05:46:13  <substack>jesusabdullah: it's just this CRYPTOCURRENCY used by ANARCHISTS to UNDERMINE ECONOMIES and also you've probably never heard of it
05:46:26  <jesusabdullah>no I've definitely heard of it it is called bitcoin
05:46:27  <substack>didn't he buy when it was just a few bucks each?
05:46:31  <jesusabdullah>yeah
05:46:46  <jesusabdullah>oh so this "reserved keywords" thing in strict mode is kinda weaksauce
05:46:56  <jesusabdullah>I break those rules ALL THE TIME
05:47:14  <defunctzombie>haha
05:47:15  <substack>whoa there are bitcoin in my account
05:47:17  <defunctzombie>I do too
05:47:19  <defunctzombie>substack: :p
05:47:59  <substack>defunctzombie: is that bitcoin address the kind of thing I should be putting places like my website?
05:48:16  <substack>I mean I already pasted it into this channel which is logged so it's already part of the public record
05:48:21  <defunctzombie>substack: yes
05:48:25  <substack>ok sweet
05:48:27  <defunctzombie>substack: it is like your email
05:48:30  <substack>I'll just put it on my website then
05:48:40  <substack>fuck yeah this is rad
05:48:40  <defunctzombie>if people want to send you money, they send it there
05:48:51  <defunctzombie>http://xkcd.com/bitcoin/
05:49:19  <defunctzombie>substack: and everyone can see how much money you have received
05:49:30  <defunctzombie>http://blockchain.info/address/196A7czbZum2nKNNwhHDeFcaGdacxPwfPB
05:49:37  <defunctzombie>once you make an address public that is
05:51:44  <jesusabdullah>hmmm
05:52:07  <jesusabdullah>so, if you wrote a class library for javascript because you're a tool and wanted to avoid using the word "class"
05:52:14  <jesusabdullah>and thought "klass" was teh ghey
05:52:17  <jesusabdullah>what would you do?
05:52:27  <jesusabdullah>Me? I'd go with fhqwhclass
05:53:01  <defunctzombie>haha
05:53:21  <defunctzombie>probably should give it a better name than 'class' in the first place
05:53:37  <defunctzombie>that is up there with things like 'util' and 'helpers'
05:53:40  <defunctzombie>and 'datafiles'
05:54:00  <jesusabdullah>c'mon fhqwhclass
05:54:07  <jesusabdullah>I see you jockin' me, tryin' play like
05:54:08  <jesusabdullah>U NO ME
05:54:19  <jesusabdullah>haha, nice
05:54:33  <jesusabdullah>that reminds me, I had a fever dream where I saved the day by having rolling papers in my pocket
06:02:12  <defunctzombie>control yourself
06:03:48  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah: "caste"
06:04:26  <jesusabdullah>hmm?
06:04:30  <jesusabdullah>oh, cute dominictarr
06:05:13  <rvagg>or the Java way: clazz
06:05:13  <rvagg>snazzy
06:05:13  <rvagg>like class but with jazz hands
06:05:52  <jesusabdullah>ugh
06:05:57  <jesusabdullah>clazz is like double gross
06:06:06  <jesusabdullah>I'm settling with fhqwhclass
06:06:29  <jesusabdullah>Man, fhqwhclass
06:06:36  <jesusabdullah>you're just makin' yourself look worse y'know?
06:06:43  <jesusabdullah>I mean, everybody's just gonna feel sorry for you
06:06:45  <jesusabdullah>I mean I do
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06:15:05  <jesusabdullah>oh man I hope I don't regret writing this
06:30:15  <Raynos>Ok so I'm putting port all of component to npm as a project
06:31:19  <Raynos>someone recommend a witty prefix
06:35:21  <jesusabdullah>that sounds like effort
06:35:35  <fotoverite>Why have I been pulled into a php project
06:36:23  <fotoverite>Must convince 45 cofounders that this is a mistake.
06:36:45  <fotoverite>Yo so how good is https://github.com/rsms/node-imagemagick
06:36:55  <fotoverite>has anyone used it or other packages?
06:39:46  <Raynos>jesusabdullah: its trivial
06:39:52  <Raynos>map component.json to package.json
06:40:01  <Raynos>tree parse require statements and rewrite them
06:40:07  <Raynos>and then have a bot that publishes to npm
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06:47:15  <jesusabdullah>Raynos: I didn't say MUCH effort, *any* effort XD
06:47:27  <Raynos>BUT
06:47:28  <jesusabdullah>Raynos: but yeah I feels you, I've done something similar!
06:47:33  <Raynos>then I can re-use all of component
06:47:35  <Raynos>AND
06:47:39  <jesusabdullah>Raynos: so it would be useful?
06:47:48  <Raynos>I can tell component people "its cool. your code goes on npm anyway so we cool"
06:47:54  <Raynos>instead of "ಠ_ಠ"
06:47:58  <jesusabdullah>I see
06:48:12  <Raynos>I ported a component/calendar by hand and it took 2 hours
06:48:20  <Raynos>its faster to write a bot to do it :D
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06:48:43  <Raynos>`npm search datepicker` -> nothing. `component search datepicker` -> 4 results. ಠ_ಠ
06:49:00  <Raynos>`jquery plugins search datepicker` -> 200 results. ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ
07:08:56  <jesusabdullah>http://imgur.com/HwJ3MIR I herd u guise liek streams
07:24:42  <jesusabdullah>substack: http://imgur.com/8FFkuEk
07:24:46  <jesusabdullah>:v :v :v
07:25:19  <substack>Raynos: https://github.com/substack/insert-module-globals/issues/1
07:25:35  <Raynos>nice!
07:27:37  <substack>I just ran into that problem because jsonparse pushed a change that used Buffer
07:27:43  <substack>so that broke JSONStream
07:27:46  <substack>and that made me sad
07:28:00  <substack>but now it works
07:28:53  <substack>it's running!
07:31:33  <jesusabdullah>interneeet >_<
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07:41:09  <substack>blog entries aren't showing up :/
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07:49:33  <substack>dominictarr: browserify 2.6.0 has Buffer detection
07:49:46  <substack>since I just hit a bug in JSONStream because of changes to jsonparse far upstream
07:51:25  <substack>dominictarr: uh oh problem, the latest JSONStream isn't working in the browser at all now
07:51:29  <dominictarr>jesusabdullah: what is FHQWH?
07:51:46  <substack>can you peg the version of jsonparse back a version?
07:52:12  <substack>but first, verifying that such a thing will fix this
07:52:27  <dominictarr>substack: sure
07:52:29  <jesusabdullah>dominictarr: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=votBDwhTu1E
07:53:28  <substack>ok that's not actually seeming to fix it
07:54:37  <dominictarr>does a previous version of JSONStream do it?
07:54:49  <substack>trying combinations right now
07:56:13  <substack>ok false alarm
07:56:20  <substack>this is a bug in browserify 2.6.0
07:56:36  <substack>but the newest jsonparse does implicitly use Buffer all over
07:56:42  <substack>without requiring it explicitly
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07:59:48  <jesusabdullah>that's a thing you would do?
07:59:50  <jesusabdullah>gurl
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08:01:45  <substack>blarg everything is broken
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08:14:45  <substack>wow npm shrinkwrap is completely bonkers
08:25:12  <substack>working now
08:25:24  <substack>added JSONStream as a vendored dep with my jsonparse fixes
08:25:53  <st_luke>geeklist does some interesting rate limiting
08:26:10  <st_luke>I had to write a script that does variable rates for all sorts of stuff so whatever kind of algorithm its using can't pick up on a pattern
08:26:23  <st_luke>I was getting hit by their rate limiter before but I think I just finally got around it
08:26:49  <st_luke>on a random interval I'm following a random amount of people, and loading more people on another random interval
08:26:55  <st_luke>ah fuck, just hit the limiter
08:28:34  <substack>checking all 155M of my images/ directory into git
08:28:35  <jesusabdullah>why are you doing greeklist things
08:30:23  <fotoverite>Why are you doing that?
08:31:03  <fotoverite>st_luke: why are you doing this. I think there is nothing of value over at tgeeklame.
08:31:38  <st_luke>have a bet with someone to see who can write a script to automatically get more followers without it getting picked up by their rate limiter
08:31:52  <fotoverite>Lol Okay that's awesome!
08:32:00  <st_luke>I'm really close
08:32:01  <st_luke>almost have it
08:34:03  <substack>35/155 transferred
08:34:06  <substack>this will take a while
08:34:35  <st_luke>it will be worth it
08:38:01  <substack>62
08:42:59  <st_luke>seem to have found the lucky combination of requests to not upset the rate limiter
08:43:00  <st_luke>https://gist.github.com/st-luke/b17035b0fa9ea36d9282
08:45:13  <st_luke>forgot to make the timeout call itself again so the page scrolls, whoops
08:46:20  <st_luke>looks like if I don't overdo it, and make sure I add a random small amount on a random time interval, it doesn't seem to catch it
08:49:36  <st_luke>ah it catches on eventually, but not that well, 2/3 of my requests get denied, I can just add something in to have it take a break between 5 and 10 seconds every 10-20 requests
08:50:10  <st_luke>oo maybe on primes
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09:09:02  <st_luke>I think I have it this time
09:09:41  <st_luke>it will select a random small amount of eligible people you can follow on the page, then follow them, then wait for a random amount of time between 5 and 20 seconds
09:09:48  <st_luke>then once it picks up again, the same
09:10:08  <st_luke>but there's a 1/3 chance that it will have to wait for a longer period of time to throw some fun in
09:10:19  <st_luke>just in case the rate limiter is on a timer that catches everything within a range of times
09:10:50  <st_luke>the longer period of time is between 10 and 50 seconds
09:11:23  <st_luke>1932 people followed so far
09:11:51  <st_luke>ohh the lottery just won, 49 second delay this time
09:11:52  <st_luke>damn thing
09:13:35  <st_luke>lmao, now a bunch of people are following me on twitter
09:18:44  <jesusabdullah>oh?
09:19:19  <st_luke>ok, time to start up another engine here
09:20:44  <st_luke>have 2 loops going, carefully adding people out of the 1970 that I have loaded on the 'active users' infinite scrolling page
09:20:55  <st_luke>each loop adds 5 to 10 people every so often
09:21:03  <st_luke>I wonder if they'll send me an email about it
09:22:14  <jesusabdullah>lol
09:22:20  <jesusabdullah>maybe write a pissy blog post
09:30:25  <st_luke>haha
09:30:28  <st_luke>'dont do this'
09:32:24  <substack>
09:34:26  <st_luke>adding about 2,000/minute now
09:34:51  <jesusabdullah>damn gurl
09:35:50  <st_luke>substack: looks good
09:36:17  <st_luke>had to slow down adding followers cause I was starting to get rate limited, I can easily throttle that though
09:36:29  <st_luke>whenever the http requests start giving a 429 response lmao
09:36:49  <st_luke>I should probably get some actual work done but this is too much fun
09:37:15  <substack>pointing the dns at the new site now
09:37:25  <st_luke>hopefully people on the tweets don't complain about getting a lot of geeklist emails tomorrow
09:44:19  <substack>fixed a thing, should be heaps faster now
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10:00:30  <substack> :D
10:00:54  <substack>that article seriously only took me 3 minutes, rawk
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10:19:35  <rvagg>substack: btw, if you'd like decent syntax highlighting and can handle a bit of python in your call stack then http://github.com/rvagg/node-brucedown sits on top of marked & pygments
10:20:08  <substack>could be nifty
10:21:52  <substack>is the new site up for anybody? http://substack.net/
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10:22:00  <substack>I was getting some dns issues here
10:22:08  <rvagg>bad_httpd_conf
10:31:55  <substack>st_luke: if you're having problems linking to the image on substack.net this link will be more reliable until the dns fixes itself
10:38:22  <st_luke>substack: sweet
10:38:29  <st_luke>I dont think geeklist has a very smart rate limiting algorithm
10:39:35  <substack>I can't imagine rate limiting algorithms are usually very smart
10:39:38  <substack>
10:40:16  <st_luke>i think you should probably just assume a massive amount of requests for similar things is something nefarious and/or automated and start giving captchas like google does
10:40:43  <st_luke>like my code is assuming that it's tracking the frequency at which I made the requests, and it's just doing volume
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11:16:05  <st_luke><3 entropy
11:17:17  <st_luke>http://vimeo.com/59725734
11:17:48  <st_luke>now following all the rails people on geeklist
11:21:33  <st_luke>33% of the time, the delay between groups of API calls is between 10 seconds and 50 seconds to confuse the rate limiting
11:21:36  <st_luke>normally only 10 seconds
11:22:19  <st_luke>and between 1 and 20 new people are followed every time, to keep it from catching on to a specific number pattern of requests
11:23:26  <st_luke>paolo got to it before the rate limiting, he had it easy
12:05:40  <rvagg>st_luke: so.... why?
12:05:43  <rvagg>rails?
12:06:45  <st_luke>im trying to hit everyone
12:06:49  <st_luke>if I can get 50k users then I'll be happy
12:07:05  <st_luke>figured out a cool way to cut back on the rate limiting
12:07:35  <st_luke>their api starts to deny the requests
12:08:01  <st_luke>so I monkeypatched their jquery xhr so if it detects a failure response it will set a global stop variable to true with a 30 second timeout
12:08:18  <st_luke>then the loop keeps going but the following gets canceled
12:08:26  <st_luke>then when the timeout is done stop is set to false and it resumes
12:09:55  <Nexxy>st_luke, I wrote a follow bot for geeklist when it was in beta
12:10:13  <st_luke>Nexxy: it would have been a lot easier ~3 weeks ago but they put in rate limiting
12:10:23  <Nexxy>you can also hook into the pusher channel and click follow as people pop up in the strea
12:10:26  <Nexxy>stream
12:10:40  <Nexxy>I wrote a bot for that too
12:10:46  <Nexxy>but they deleted my account
12:10:49  <st_luke>if you send too many requests at once they give you a 429 response so you just have to wait a bit
12:10:59  <st_luke>Nexxy: lmfao are you kidding me?
12:11:03  <Nexxy>no.
12:11:04  <st_luke>that's fucking awesome
12:11:06  <Nexxy>lol
12:11:12  <st_luke>because you got their attention hahaha
12:11:15  <Nexxy>I also cost them over $100 in sendgrid credit
12:11:19  <st_luke>hahahahahaha
12:11:22  <st_luke>I'm wondering if this will do the same
12:11:23  <Nexxy>by giving myself like, 100,000 thumbs up
12:11:32  <Nexxy>and thus, 100,000 emails
12:12:59  <Nexxy>https://twitter.com/nexxylove/statuses/113911668383285248?tw_i=113911668383285248
12:14:37  <st_luke>hahaha wow
12:15:40  <Nexxy>then https://twitter.com/nexxylove/statuses/185081483868913667?tw_i=185081483868913667
12:15:57  <rvagg>haha, that's pretty awesome
12:17:03  <Nexxy>http://i.imgur.com/B72we.png
12:17:28  <st_luke>oh shit my script is out of control i cant stop it
12:17:36  <Nexxy>which caused this: http://i.imgur.com/QPgFk.png
12:17:40  <Nexxy>st_luke, same thing happeend to me :D
12:17:50  <Nexxy>4.0Mb/s of email
12:17:53  <st_luke>I'm not gonna close the page because I'll lose all the profiles I've loaded
12:18:26  <st_luke>guess ill just wait for their http 429 responses to stop lol
12:19:06  <st_luke>with the rate limiting I'm only up to following 3900 so far
12:19:13  <Nexxy>lol
12:19:33  <Nexxy>you can do it
12:19:40  <Nexxy>try starting 2 sessions
12:19:46  <Nexxy>it might rate-limit per session
12:19:51  <st_luke>true
12:20:02  <Nexxy>then if timeouts don't halve
12:20:04  <Nexxy>go crazy
12:20:14  <st_luke>guess i should hit the java crowd as well
12:20:26  <Nexxy>are you following 'communities' or w/e?
12:20:31  <st_luke>yeah
12:20:36  <st_luke>cause you can get a really consumable list
12:20:41  <st_luke>for example http://geekli.st/community/php/members/active
12:20:50  <st_luke>I have a timeout set to hit the infinite scroll when I need more
12:20:57  <Nexxy>lol nice
12:21:22  <Nexxy>https://twitter.com/gklst/statuses/116986407469326336?tw_i=116986407469326336
12:21:44  <st_luke>once i have a good amount of unfollowed peeps, it will get an array of those, and follow between 1 and 20 to confuse the rate limiter in case it's fancy algorithmic
12:21:55  <st_luke>it also does random times between the request batches to confuse it just in case
12:21:58  <Nexxy>sinister
12:21:59  <st_luke>but i dont think its that smart
12:22:36  <st_luke>and then 30% of the time, there's a lottery system that runs and it has the potential to make the next request have an extended amount of time for a break, with a random time that's a bit longer than the regular random delays
12:22:49  <st_luke>so that's been helping with the rate limiting so far but I think I can do better
12:22:54  <Nexxy>lol
12:25:15  <Nexxy>st_luke, is it still using pusher?
12:25:32  <Nexxy>I would imagine since they're probably still on heroku
12:25:40  <st_luke>then I monkey patched their jquery ajax so when I get the 429 reponse cause it failed I have my stuff set to turn off for a while
12:25:48  <st_luke>i'm not sure, what's pusher?
12:25:55  <st_luke>oh some messaging thing
12:25:59  <Nexxy>pusher is their pubsub thing
12:26:13  <Nexxy>you can add your own listeners
12:26:17  <Nexxy>or at least you could
12:26:18  <st_luke>w00t hit 4000
12:26:44  <Nexxy>so, like what I did was listen for the new user events
12:26:48  <Nexxy>and follow them
12:28:57  <st_luke>oh thats smart
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12:40:28  <st_luke>oh yup pusher is there still
12:40:48  <st_luke>once i get to 10k ill high five some peeps for their geek accomplishments
12:40:54  <st_luke>all at the same time
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13:16:02  <st_luke>Nexxy: I'm not even running any scripts anymore and it's still making me follow new people, I wonder if all the requests that supposedly 'failed' were entered in some sort of internal queue :P
13:16:09  <st_luke>cause the number keeps going up and I'm not hitting them
13:16:38  <Nexxy>lol
13:16:39  <st_luke>i guess i'll have a lot of new pals in the wordpress, java, php and startup communities
13:16:43  <Nexxy>^5
13:16:46  <st_luke>hahahaha
13:16:48  <st_luke>^5
13:16:51  <Nexxy>:P
13:17:15  <st_luke>someone should write an article about how to make an app that works so poorly
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14:01:02  <st_luke>Nexxy: ok, I'm done, that was probably a huge waste of time but oh well. I'm at 5000 users and having a hard time finding more to follow, plus their API is starting to croak
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14:37:37  <isaacs>substack: provisioning itself takes very little time, in fact. seconds. but as usual, all the things around the provisioning take a while. checking your user acct, finding a machine with space on it, alerting the databses, telling the website.
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14:53:52  <st_luke>sometimes orchestration platforms just break also
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16:03:11  <substack>it's up! http://substack.net/
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16:06:39  <isaacs>substack: nice.
16:06:50  <isaacs>substack: this is the most substack website i've ever seen, perhaps that has ever been
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16:27:13  <tanepiper>substack: tempted to move from octopress to this, i like it
16:27:43  <substack>\o/
16:27:54  <substack>well you've got to roll a lot of the fanciness yourself still
16:28:18  <substack>right now I'm just pulling down all the blog contents when the page loads
16:28:23  <substack>because I'm lazy
16:33:23  <thl0>substack: I did something similar - I use a git commit hook to tell my site to pull the blog down and update the contents
16:33:47  <thl0>substack: so every time I publish a post on github my site automatically updatex
16:34:42  <thl0>substack: I'm using this: https://github.com/thlorenz/dog - to render markdown and pull in code snippets
16:37:42  <gozala>substack: do you know if anyone wrote browserify transform for css / html ?
16:39:40  <substack>I wrote one for static assets that might be relevant http://github.com/substack/brfs
16:39:54  <substack>you could use that to load html and css but all it does is inline fs.readFileSync() calls
16:40:36  <tanepiper>wonder if I can do some integration with https://github.com/tanepiper/nell/
16:40:53  <tanepiper>octopress in the nodes
16:41:07  <gozala>substack: awesome thanks
16:41:40  <gozala>no I figured it would be simple, I just did not want to duplicate efforts
16:42:46  <substack>what some folks have been working on lately is modules to insert css into the <head> from strings and such
16:42:53  <substack>that module possibly already exists
16:45:22  <gozala>substack: oh brfs interferes into fs.read...
16:45:41  <gozala>I was thinking about require("./resource/style.css")
16:45:54  <substack>I'm not very keen on overloading require() like that
16:46:10  <substack>if you want to move your scripts from browser-side into node later it's really tricky
16:46:16  <gozala>I think it would be nice to have registry for browserify plugins
16:46:39  <gozala>substack: well I don't really need css on node
16:46:42  <thl0>substack: gozala: just implementing a transform that calls out to filed or something should work
16:46:58  <substack>I'm thinking I'd like something like: insertCss(fs.readFileSync(__dirname + '/style.css'))
16:47:00  <gozala>thl0: sure it's super easy to write
16:47:16  <substack>insertCss() can just be an ordinary module
16:48:20  <substack>published a new version of browser-badge that supports "pending" as a status
16:48:35  <substack>and I just merged a patch that fixes the ordering
16:48:54  <substack>next I'll roll the new browser-badge into the ci project pages
16:52:37  <thl0>substack: btw coffeefy now inlines sourcemaps ;)
16:52:59  <thl0>substack: https://github.com/thlorenz/coffeeify/blob/master/index.js#L5-L13
16:53:31  <thl0>substack: gonna make the nec. changes to browser-pack tonite and we should be able to support transpiled languages with browserify
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17:08:28  <substack>whaaa!
17:08:34  <substack>thl0: this is so much awesome
17:08:57  <thl0>substack: :)
17:09:06  <substack>this is what happens when you've got a bunch of tiny pieces that all do their 1 thing well and communicate over simple text streams
17:09:13  <substack>this is what unix was SUPPOSED to be ABOUT
17:09:44  * mikolalysenkoquit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
17:11:06  <mbalho>new default cat image http://areallykewlwebpage.tripod.com/cat.jpg
17:12:13  <substack>mbalho: not even my cat, just some random cat I found on the internet in ~2000!
17:12:20  <thl0>substack: all string based, although the encoding - decoding - re-encoding steps will affect bundle speed (at least only felt during development)
17:12:26  <substack>actually probably around 2002 or 2003
17:17:19  <tmcw>substack: does through work in browsers via browserify?
17:17:37  <substack>yep
17:17:40  <gozala>substack: would you be willing to add option for exportify to specify destination dir ?
17:17:53  <tmcw>sweet
17:17:56  <substack>http://ci.testling.com/dominictarr/through
17:18:33  <substack>gozala: sounds good
17:18:43  <gozala>ok will send pull request then
17:18:45  * substackheading down to san bruno to do testling-ci demos! &
17:21:47  * intabulasjoined
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17:39:04  <tanepiper>http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/854870933/worlds-most-super-amazing-100-awesome-cat-calendar
17:40:00  * defunctzombie_zzchanged nick to defunctzombie
17:42:44  <st_luke>defunctzombie: my script capped at 5k users
17:42:52  <defunctzombie>aww
17:42:58  <st_luke>and the site is kinda slow now
17:45:46  <defunctzombie>haha
17:45:54  <defunctzombie>probably just slow for you
17:46:02  <defunctzombie>since they don't expect someone to have 5000 connections?
17:48:32  <defunctzombie>travis needs to fix their version parser
17:48:40  <defunctzombie>I don't wnat to use quotes hahaha
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17:55:59  <Raynos>defunctzombie: unquoted 0.10 works for me
17:56:07  <defunctzombie>Raynos: really?
17:56:16  <Raynos>yeah
17:56:17  <defunctzombie>is that a new thing?
17:56:29  <defunctzombie>cause they tweeted about needing quotes
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18:04:50  <Raynos>defunctzombie: `nvm use 0.1` installs 0.10
18:05:01  * mikolalysenkojoined
18:05:30  <defunctzombie>Raynos: um
18:05:39  <defunctzombie>Raynos: defunctzombie: travis needs to fix their version parser
18:05:45  <Raynos>i.e yaml parses as 0.1
18:05:52  <Raynos>but the node version switcher tool they uses
18:05:58  <Raynos>installs 0.10 when you give it 0.1
18:06:07  <Raynos>so things work out :D
18:06:09  <Raynos>double bug
18:06:14  <Raynos>also lawl yaml
18:06:19  <defunctzombie>haha
18:06:19  <Raynos>lawl travis file
18:06:30  <Raynos>defunctzombie: pressure them to support travis property in package.json
18:06:39  <defunctzombie>meh
18:06:45  <defunctzombie>I think .travis file is fine
18:07:01  <defunctzombie>they could read the engines field in package json
18:07:03  <defunctzombie>that could be cool
18:11:51  <jesusabdullah>yaml -_-;
18:12:49  <st_luke>I misread "fighting a battle with cancer" with "fighting a battle with a narwal whale"
18:12:55  <st_luke>might need sleep soon
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18:29:07  <defunctzombie>wow
18:38:49  <defunctzombie>new daemon module published!
18:38:49  <defunctzombie>https://github.com/indexzero/daemon.node
18:38:59  <defunctzombie>works with cluster too (for those that might care)
18:39:24  <tmcw>any working pure-js-gunzip the cool kids know about?
18:39:41  <defunctzombie>purejs eh?
18:41:46  <tmcw>yeah, there's the browserify zlib, which is semi-finished but doesn't include gunzip
18:41:55  <tmcw>and zlibjs's gunzip impl doesn't seem to work
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18:45:10  <defunctzombie>sounds like time to make zlibjs gunzip work?
18:45:20  <defunctzombie>or ideally make it a module and then make zlibjs use that haha
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18:48:14  <AvianFlu>defunctzombie: win
18:48:19  <AvianFlu>about daemon.node I mean
18:49:14  <st_luke>WIN
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18:52:38  <defunctzombie>\o/
18:53:58  <Raynos>ST_LUKE: narwhal whale xd
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19:01:11  <Raynos>dominictarr: you were right
19:01:30  <Raynos>https://github.com/Raynos/insert#working-with-widgets <- that was a really bad idea
19:04:03  <defunctzombie>magic is always a bad idea hahaha
19:06:32  <defunctzombie>I need a designer
19:07:12  <defunctzombie>have an oss oriented project I want to make
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19:11:43  <defunctzombie>anyone using the new nginx websocket stuff?
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19:33:32  <Domenic_>this is promising https://twitter.com/rwaldron/status/312278241077493760
19:40:53  <Domenic_>Raynos: is there a version of benvie's color scheme that is not scary, but does have all the distinct syntax elements?
19:41:03  <Domenic_>meh i'll file an issue easier to explain that way
19:41:06  * defunctzombiechanged nick to defunctzombie_zz
19:41:25  <Raynos>Domenic_: his thing is split into two
19:41:27  <Raynos>one is colors
19:41:33  <Raynos>and the other is the distinct syntax elements
19:41:38  <Raynos>Domenic_: also try the colors. TRY IT
19:41:46  <Raynos>unless you write es6
19:41:49  <Raynos>his es6 colors are crazy
19:41:53  <Raynos>the es5 ones arent as crazy
19:41:55  <Domenic_>lol interesting
19:42:13  <Domenic_>man those are pretty crazy
19:42:31  <Raynos>https://twitter.com/Raynos2/status/312093780364890112
19:42:53  <Raynos>this makes me many sads
19:43:24  <Domenic_>is there a chance this is because npm search is bad
19:44:04  <Domenic_>also how do i use this tmLanguage thing
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19:45:00  <guybrush>rofl Raynos that is hilarious http://www.doxdesk.com/img/updates/20091116-so-large.gif
19:45:40  <Raynos>Domenic_: I have a sublime text 2 folder called JavaScriptNext
19:45:47  <Raynos>in my apps directory
19:45:50  <Raynos>that contains those things
19:45:59  <Domenic_>ok. how does st2 know to use that instead of the JavaScript folder.
19:46:07  <Raynos>Domenic_: its not a search problem. It's a people do not write UI widgets as npm modules
19:46:22  <Raynos>Domenic_: `ctrl shift + P use javascriptnext
19:46:32  <Domenic_>sweet
19:46:34  <Raynos>I configure syntax highlighting to be "when open js file always use javascriptnext syntax"
19:46:45  <Raynos>theres a menu option for that
19:49:12  <Domenic_>hmm it still highlights random method names
19:49:21  <Domenic_>like it highlights .push and .max but not .getClientBoundingRect
19:50:52  <thl0>Raynos: Domenic_: I know the obvious solution to your problem - use a real editor
19:50:59  <thl0>i.e. Vim ;)
19:51:38  <thl0>just kidding, no flame wars plz
19:54:12  <Domenic_>ok wait i just had it set up wrong it works now
19:54:15  <Domenic_>but damn these colors
19:54:18  <Domenic_>not sure i can take it
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20:07:33  * defunctzombie_zzchanged nick to defunctzombie
20:08:51  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: how is everyone getting what they want?
20:08:56  <st_luke>tea time
20:09:00  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: and why is it all behind closed doors?
20:09:13  <Domenic_>defunctzombie: we don't know exactly how, my guess is that single exports are back on the table
20:09:25  <Domenic_>defunctzombie: minutes will be published Monday, just git Rick a few days.
20:09:38  <Domenic_>s/git/give
20:10:11  <defunctzombie>my guess is they need to give up and accept that you will still need browserify tools to do anything useful since no browser is gonan support this crap
20:10:16  <defunctzombie>haha
20:11:25  <st_luke>they do it behind closed doors because they don't want anyone taking pictures while wycats stands on a table and takes a dump on a printed copy of ecma-262
20:13:04  <Domenic_>defunctzombie: the browser vendors are the ones on the committee, so browsers will almost certainly implement it
20:13:11  <Domenic_>but yes in terms of older browsers you're certainly right
20:13:27  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: they are all doing it wrong
20:13:36  <Domenic_>yeah yeah
20:13:37  <defunctzombie>they should just expose a low level interface
20:13:41  <st_luke>what browser does wycats represent
20:13:44  <st_luke>rails
20:13:46  <defunctzombie>and stop bitching about languages
20:13:49  <Domenic_>st_luke: haha
20:13:56  <Domenic_>defunctzombie: write your own compile-to-js language
20:14:13  <Domenic_>js is the low-level interface, asm.js has proven this
20:14:14  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: my point is that "js" doesn't mean anything to anyone
20:14:33  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: that is my point
20:14:44  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: browsers don't matter as far as "ES" whatever goes
20:14:53  <defunctzombie>they should be discussing smallest feature set
20:15:01  <defunctzombie>for something like asm level
20:15:06  <defunctzombie>everything else leave to users
20:16:29  <Domenic_>asm is already done
20:16:42  <Domenic_>they want to build a better language on top of es5, and i for one welcome it
20:16:52  <Domenic_>but you can just use asm.js and your own compile-to-asm.js language if you want
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20:17:36  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: asm.js is slow
20:18:02  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: my point is that browsers should have no desire to participate in any ES discussions or whatever about next js
20:18:04  <Domenic_>defunctzombie: O_o 0.5x speed of C is quite fast
20:18:05  <defunctzombie>it doesn't matter
20:18:13  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: in the browser?
20:18:15  <Domenic_>yes
20:18:20  <Domenic_>have you seen the benchmarks!?
20:18:23  <defunctzombie>link?
20:18:36  <defunctzombie>if that is teh case, I need a browserify plugin now hahaa
20:19:08  <Domenic_>http://kripken.github.com/mloc_emscripten_talk/#/27 and http://kripken.github.com/mloc_emscripten_talk/#/28
20:20:05  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: explain?
20:20:12  <defunctzombie>is native -> js?
20:20:16  <defunctzombie>or asm.js stuff?
20:20:35  <Domenic_>you can read the rest of the slides but basically
20:20:59  <Domenic_>it's compiling some native code to naive JS (red and blue bars) versus compiling it to asm.js (green bars) vs. leaving it native (yellow bars)
20:21:18  <Domenic_>i really recommend the whole slideset
20:21:22  <st_luke>meh i'm not a huge fan of the color of the bars
20:21:47  <Domenic_>st_luke: your sense of humor is my favorite sense of humor
20:21:52  <guybrush>st_luke: try bananabread if you are not a fan of bars :D
20:21:53  <Domenic_>except maybe FakeAlexRussell's.
20:21:54  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: comparing you mean?
20:22:06  <Domenic_>defunctzombie: no compiling
20:22:16  <Domenic_>with emscripten
20:22:23  <defunctzombie>what is compiling?
20:22:26  <defunctzombie>and what is "its" haha
20:22:37  <defunctzombie>anyhow.. sounds like I need a js-> asm.js transpiler
20:22:43  <defunctzombie>does one exist?!
20:22:44  <Domenic_>that's not that fruitful
20:22:51  <Domenic_>asm.js is more for c -> asm.js
20:23:07  <tanepiper>I do love BananaBread - I was a big fan of the sauerbraten engine anyway
20:23:23  <tanepiper>(I also love banana bread :p)
20:23:33  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: then I don't understand what you are telling me about my comment that browsers should just only ever implement at the level of asm.js
20:24:12  <tanepiper>defunctzombie: maybe not only implement, but they should certainly optimise for it
20:24:29  <defunctzombie>my argument is that is the only thing they need to worry about
20:24:29  <Domenic_>because asm.js gives you the low-level vm you're looking for. just write code that compiles to asm.js and you win.
20:24:33  <defunctzombie>and no js.next or anything
20:24:39  <Domenic_>ah
20:24:50  <Domenic_>well that's one opinion but all the people coding browsers don't agree with you so... cool story?
20:25:02  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: they are wrong :p
20:25:16  <defunctzombie>and wasting their time having multi year debates as a result :)
20:25:23  <Domenic_>meh, it's their time to waste
20:25:29  <defunctzombie>sure
20:25:33  <defunctzombie>totally agree
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20:27:58  <guybrush>Domenic_: i dont get why everyone is only talking about asm.js as compiletarget, why not write it in asm.js in first place?
20:28:15  <Domenic_>guybrush: have you seen asm.js code? it's literally like writing hand-coded assembly.
20:28:25  <guybrush>ah ok
20:29:37  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: the reason I want a js -> asm.js transpiler
20:29:45  <defunctzombie>is I don't want to worry about using a .forEach
20:29:46  <guybrush>i agree :p
20:29:50  <defunctzombie>or some other thing
20:29:54  <guybrush>but i think its hard due nature of js
20:30:03  <defunctzombie>ideally asm.js runs in more places?
20:30:35  <Domenic_>asm.js is a strict subset of js, so currently it runs in the same number of places. but that would be interesting
20:30:49  <Domenic_>http://asmjs.org/faq.html
20:31:36  <defunctzombie>you get what I am getting at tho, I think
20:33:16  <Domenic_>not sure about the forEach thing.
20:33:25  <defunctzombie>if I never have to worry about Array.indexOf() existing or other such things it would be awesome
20:34:35  <Domenic_>Oh I see for downlevel browsers?
20:34:41  <Domenic_>So you really want an ES5 -> ES3 compiler
20:35:08  <mikolalysenko>I think compiling js -> asm.js is probably not a good use of resources
20:35:17  <mikolalysenko>since most engines basically do that anyway
20:35:32  <mikolalysenko>the other thing is that asm.js has a somewhat awkward memory model
20:35:46  <mikolalysenko>you have to specify a heap up front for all allocated memory, and you can't grow it at run time
20:36:01  <Raynos>Domenic_: well it cant know too much
20:36:03  <mikolalysenko>this is ok if you have like one big chunk of asm.js, but if you have many asm.js modules it is going to have problems
20:36:12  <Raynos>Domenic_: bare with th ecolors
20:36:14  <Raynos>they are important
20:36:15  <Raynos>soon
20:36:17  <Raynos>you wont see code
20:36:20  <Raynos>you will only see colors
20:36:30  <Domenic_>lol
20:37:00  <defunctzombie>Domenic_: yea, ES5 -> ES3 would be adequate, but the idea is that you can go lower level to a targeted subset that browsers make even faster
20:37:20  <Domenic_>i wonder if the targetted subset is actually faster in the ES3 browsers
20:37:30  <Domenic_>because those didn't even have JITers so it's a whole different world
20:38:50  <defunctzombie>yea
20:39:11  <Domenic_>also wait i think asm.js depends on arraybuffers being available
20:39:14  <Domenic_>so yeah that's no good
20:39:38  <defunctzombie>sadness
20:39:44  <defunctzombie>I guess I need es3 haha
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20:44:26  <Raynos>who cares about es3
20:44:35  <Raynos>I should watch the mloc talk about asmjs
20:54:06  <defunctzombie>haha
20:54:22  <defunctzombie>I am gonna start having a requirement to only use chrome or firefox for my sites haha
20:54:27  <defunctzombie>cross browser is overrated
21:11:17  <marcello3d>are there any modules out there that verify the packages in node_moduels match the package.json requirements? (e.g. check if you need to npm install)
21:14:13  <guybrush>npm ls
21:15:16  <guybrush>it will tell you about invalid and extraneous modules
21:19:54  <marcello3d>can I access that programmatically?
21:20:01  <guybrush>yes
21:20:07  <marcello3d>I basically want to run it on startup and exit if they don't have the dependencies
21:20:20  <guybrush>require('npm').execCommand('ls',cb)
21:20:24  <guybrush>or something like that
21:20:37  <marcello3d>hmmm
21:20:43  <marcello3d>extraneous is ok
21:20:46  <guybrush>im just curious why you would want to do that
21:21:16  <marcello3d>because npm install is slow, and I don't want to ask my teammates to run it every time they do a git pull
21:21:27  <marcello3d>it'd be nice if when you tried to run it, it was like "hey, you need to do npm install first"
21:21:29  <marcello3d>or even just run it
21:21:32  <guybrush>oh
21:21:42  <guybrush>you could put all the things into git
21:22:01  <marcello3d>I could. that's a different problem though :)
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21:22:13  <guybrush>ha :D
21:22:25  <guybrush>but i would try to teach your mates about npm
21:22:32  <guybrush>its really easy to use
21:22:38  <guybrush>and not soooo slow
21:22:58  <marcello3d>it's not a matter of easiness
21:23:01  <marcello3d>it's a matter of automation
21:23:22  <marcello3d>I don't want my app to start if they have an outdated module in node_modules
21:23:52  <marcello3d>my initial thought was to use the same logic that I have in https://github.com/marcello3d/node-licensecheck but it seems like reinventing the wheel
21:23:59  <guybrush>you could implement it via a git-hook
21:24:15  <marcello3d>hmmm
21:24:38  <guybrush>but im not sure if that fits your circumstance
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21:25:58  <Raynos>defunctzombie: only ie8 cares about es3
21:26:04  <defunctzombie>haha
21:26:04  <Raynos>just do ie9/saf6/ff/chrome
21:26:42  <Raynos>marcello3d: npm install should be a no-op if it doesnt need to be run
21:26:57  <Raynos>marcello3d: generally you only need to run npm install if `git pull` updated the package.json
21:27:06  <marcello3d>I agree
21:27:09  <defunctzombie>npm install is broken
21:27:12  <defunctzombie>and cannot be trusted
21:27:21  <defunctzombie>marcello3d: such a package would be good actually
21:27:26  <defunctzombie>if it could check deps or whatnot
21:27:26  <guybrush>defunctzombie: ellaborate plz
21:27:46  <marcello3d>npm install takes about 2.5 seconds on this project
21:27:49  <guybrush>why is it broken
21:28:01  <defunctzombie>guybrush: https://github.com/isaacs/npm/issues/3124
21:28:11  <defunctzombie>guybrush: when you update certain deps
21:28:14  <defunctzombie>and run npm install
21:28:18  <defunctzombie>you will end up with a broken tree
21:28:26  <defunctzombie>https://github.com/isaacs/npm/issues/3124#issuecomment-13464136
21:28:33  <defunctzombie>that comment
21:28:41  <defunctzombie>that behavior is very dangerous
21:28:44  <defunctzombie>if you are not aware of it
21:29:02  <guybrush>oh thanks for pointing it out wasnt aware
21:29:05  <defunctzombie>basically, once you update deps and run npm install, it can fail in subtle ways
21:29:13  <defunctzombie>the safe thing is to blow away node_modules
21:29:15  <defunctzombie>and install again
21:29:21  <defunctzombie>until npm install is fixed
21:29:24  <guybrush>oh i do that very often haha
21:30:22  <guybrush>oooh btw i had some idea about the whole install thing, since its couchdb there could be a cached dependency-info-thing that speeds up installing?
21:30:32  <Raynos>marcello3d: that's fast
21:30:37  <Raynos>how many times do you git pull per day
21:30:42  <guybrush>was just thinking about it when i got up, so didnt think about it in depth
21:31:09  <defunctzombie>Raynos: the point isn't how many times, the point is to not start if deps are not correct
21:31:22  <defunctzombie>Raynos: this would be a very awesome module and I would absolutely use it
21:31:23  <marcello3d>yea, I don't want a 2.5 second delay on starting my app
21:31:34  <thl0>defunctzombie: I have a dependency check package
21:31:40  <defunctzombie>marcello3d: don't use npm install, it is slow and not necessary
21:31:54  <thl0>defunctzombie: https://github.com/thlorenz/valiquire
21:31:58  <defunctzombie>marcello3d: ^
21:32:00  <Raynos>defunctzombie: thats a seperate problem
21:32:09  <thl0>defunctzombie: makes sure that all your requires can be resolved
21:32:28  <thl0>defunctzombie: so if you'd be missing a dependency in node_modules, it would catch that
21:32:30  <defunctzombie>thl0: does it check versions?
21:32:31  <marcello3d>thl0: does it check versions?
21:32:34  <marcello3d>hah
21:32:36  <defunctzombie>:)
21:32:52  <defunctzombie>marcello3d: might be a nice starting point
21:32:58  <thl0>defunctzombie: marcello3d: no - its more about require.resolve, but ensures proper casing
21:33:01  <defunctzombie>marcello3d: I would call it "safelaunch"
21:33:09  <thl0>defunctzombie: marcello3d: sorry ;(
21:33:19  <marcello3d>alright well I'll just hack it up
21:34:18  <defunctzombie>+1
21:34:48  <fotoverite>+1
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21:58:13  <dominictarr>juliangruber: ping?
22:07:37  <Raynos>substack: I've used insert-css myself (inlined in lib). It works for a bit but then you have to balance the flicker
22:07:40  <Raynos>and its a bit weird
22:08:15  <Raynos>If you have a complex UI thing made out of UI thing A and UI thing B
22:08:29  <Raynos>then the app that uses complex UI has to insertCss the complex css, A & B
22:08:37  <Raynos>or each package / module has to mutate document.head themself
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22:20:54  <dominictarr>hij1nx: idea: turn an english word -> a color representing where it will lexiographically sort
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22:22:21  <dominictarr>lets say you start at green, and go to blue or red or something
22:24:14  <dominictarr>just map on the first letter to 1/26 the color wheel -- so you can roughly see where strings will sort
22:24:47  <dominictarr>then appends will look like a gradient, but random writes will look like a rainbow
22:26:13  <defunctzombie>Raynos: stop mutating document head
22:27:11  <Raynos>defunctzombie: MUTATE ALL THE HEADS
22:27:16  <defunctzombie>hahaha
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22:33:36  <mbalho>WOOT https://github.com/substack/insert-css
22:33:46  <substack>yep yep
22:33:53  <substack>adjusting the tests
22:36:04  <substack>Raynos: I'm going to experiment with using it and solve the issues that pop up as I encounter them
22:36:17  <Raynos>good luck!
22:36:31  <Raynos>substack: the biggest issue is still css === global bucket
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22:39:04  <substack>Raynos: I've thought about that too with css parsers to auto-prefix
22:39:14  <substack>already written some modules that do such things
22:39:33  <substack>what I need to do is find a magical combination of modules that works well for the average case and then write a blog post about it
22:39:39  <Raynos>yes
22:39:40  <Raynos>that :)
22:44:09  <chrisdickinson>i wonder if there's a sequence of characters that css will parse as a comment that js won't?
22:44:38  <chrisdickinson>like, some horrible hack to basically use the same file to contain both the bundled JS and the bundled css?
22:44:55  <chrisdickinson>also maybe fun: browserify for css?
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22:47:40  <chrisdickinson>substack: is the requirement of a browserify transform function that it produce javascript?
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22:48:38  <substack>yes
22:48:49  <substack>because module-deps will parse it for require() calls
22:48:56  <chrisdickinson>ah cool
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22:50:35  <chrisdickinson>and transform steps can't introduce dependencies of their own (without just shoving them into their output as require statements)?
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22:52:38  <substack>correct
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23:07:14  <marcello3d>so I built this thing but it doesn't seem to work
23:09:40  <dools>it's the human condition
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23:22:16  <substack>updated http://substack.net
23:22:25  <substack>for more readability
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23:31:21  <Raynos>substack: what do you think about tryme for blogging ?
23:31:36  <Raynos>I'm thinking I want to use an interactive example / repl environment for javascript blog posts
23:32:14  <substack>that could be pretty neat
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23:56:25  <jesusabdullah>Working on dc tycoon a little bit https://gist.github.com/jesusabdullah/5166336
23:58:16  <jesusabdullah>substack: ^^
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23:59:26  <substack>yes, looks super neat!
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