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00:02:35  <dominictarr>ins0mnia: yeah, we just need something to manipulate html lists with splice
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00:03:45  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: yeah, and much of it is already in sortable
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00:11:40  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: will fix toString() and get attributes to work while at it
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00:44:49  <st_luke>anyone ever use 'bsd new' license?
00:45:54  <CoverSlide>I like WTFPL better
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01:10:46  <dominictarr>rvagg: hmm, thinking about the subdb thing
01:11:01  <dominictarr>getting post hooks to work will be easy
01:11:20  <dominictarr>but pre hooks will be hard, might require a smarter batch object
01:11:49  <rvagg>dominictarr: I'm experimenting with a plugin mechanism that should make it easier to expose the innards
01:12:26  <dominictarr>oh, another thing, it would be great to inject a leveldown instance into level up
01:12:45  <dominictarr>then it would be easy to reuse levelup in the browser, etc
01:12:57  <dominictarr>or on anything that implements leveldown
01:13:21  <rvagg>yeah, I'm thinking along those lines too
01:13:46  <rvagg>if you can replace leveldown with your own thing then you could easily do the sub-databases thing, your leveldown stub is just a wrapper around a levelup instance with clever stuff happening
01:14:03  <pkrumins>defunctzombie_zz: buying the cert right now
01:14:04  <dominictarr>yeah
01:15:11  <dominictarr>one thing that would be easy it to create is a subDb with post
01:15:42  <dominictarr>post-hooks, but prehooks can only atomically insert within the same subdb
01:15:51  <dominictarr>(so they have to manage their own prefixes
01:15:53  <dominictarr>)
01:16:29  <dominictarr>otherwise, the prehooks would have to bubble up, and be managed by the top db
01:17:09  <ins0mnia>dominictarr: fixed toString and setAttribute, passing test
01:19:24  <ins0mnia>haven't check with hyperscript yet though
01:19:24  <ins0mnia>checked
01:20:14  <dominictarr>but what I want to be able to do, is intercept a put, and turn it into a batch with another put into a different db
01:20:24  <dominictarr>how to express that though?
01:20:28  <dominictarr>ins0mnia: looks good
01:20:53  <dominictarr>rvagg: might need a smarter batch thing
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01:21:39  <dominictarr>like batch.put(db, key, value)
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01:21:52  <dominictarr>(this would be the chainable api that people want...
01:21:54  <dominictarr>)
01:22:15  <dominictarr>the db option would be optional,
01:22:38  <dominictarr>if you passed a db, it would add the prefix for that subdb into the batch
01:23:33  <rvagg>so, the thing I'm fiddling with now will let you inject plugins that can intercept/adjust/bypass internal calls to various things
01:23:59  <Raynos>rvagg, dominictarr: +1 for injecting leveldown into levelup
01:24:12  <rvagg>so you should be able to intercept a put, not pass it on to the real put activity but pass it on to a batch with additional stuff you needed
01:24:35  <dominictarr>so you could do subdb.pre(function (batch) { batch.each(function (e) { if(subdb.inRange(e)) batch.put(otherDb, key, value})})
01:25:49  <dominictarr>or, maybe, it would just cb for each item that subdb adds
01:26:19  <dominictarr>subdb.pre(function (batch, item) { batch.put(otherDb, key, value) })
01:26:51  <dominictarr>problem here is that you'd need to create a batch object for everything that is inserted
01:26:59  <dominictarr>well, everything that is hooked
01:28:03  <dominictarr>or maybe, instead of iterating over the batch, pre could just be called on each thing
01:28:07  <dominictarr>hmm
01:29:21  <dominictarr>subdb.pre(function (ch = {key: k, value: v, type: 'put'}) { return [ch, {key: key2, value: value2, type: 'put'}]}
01:29:30  <rvagg> btw, if we just allowed `leveldown` to be set on the options object on creation, but we set `require('leveldown')` as a default inside levelup.js, will browserify be able to somehow ignore leveldown?
01:29:56  <dominictarr>rvagg: you could do require('levelup/inject')(leveldown)
01:29:57  <rvagg>var db = levelup('location', { binding: require('leveldownreplacement') })
01:30:07  <substack>the browsers field can be used to set up browser-specific paths
01:30:26  <dominictarr>but require('levelup') just gives you the default leveldown
01:31:24  <dominictarr>because you need to get leveldown out of the require path for browserify, anyway
01:31:57  <dominictarr>substack: this isn't just for browser, may want to use a js only leveldown
01:33:11  <dominictarr>hmm,
01:33:13  <dominictarr>I know
01:33:45  <rvagg>well, dominictarr, Raynos, one of you should put in a PR for leveldown replacing so we can discuss
01:33:55  <dominictarr>subdb.pre(function (ch, add) { add.veto(ch) })
01:34:15  <dominictarr>just thinking out loud for now
01:34:16  <Raynos>i would like to make levelidb feature pairity with leveldown, that would be nicer
01:34:33  <Raynos>it does raise the question of can levelup be ported to browsers trivially
01:34:39  <Raynos>or does it use crazy node stuff
01:35:12  <dominictarr>Raynos: yeah, and then you just use levelup's streams etc
01:35:30  <dominictarr>I want to make an Iterator thing to
01:35:55  <rvagg>mm, the iterator interface is super simple now
01:36:58  <rvagg>iterator.next(cb), iterator.end(cb)
01:36:58  <Raynos>rvagg: just have options.db or something
01:36:58  <rvagg>yeah, I'm find with extending `options`
01:36:59  <rvagg>'db', 'leveldown', 'binding', 'base', whatever
01:36:59  <rvagg>s/find/fine
01:39:32  * defunctzombie_zzchanged nick to defunctzombie
01:41:20  <defunctzombie>I am thinking of getting a 5$ month vps box for IRC bouncers for people that are interested
01:41:27  <defunctzombie>we could all pool onto one box
01:41:40  <defunctzombie>st_luke hij1nx dominictarr Raynos substack ^
01:41:46  <defunctzombie>what are you guys doing for this currently?
01:41:47  <Raynos>OH HI
01:42:08  <Raynos>I'm more open to sharing the cost of a joyent box
01:42:11  <dominictarr>what is an IRC bouncer?
01:42:24  <st_luke>defunctzombie: I'd be down for that, I don't really bother with it right now due to laziness
01:42:40  <st_luke>you mean something to just run an irssi session?
01:42:46  <substack>defunctzombie: I bounce from the box running browserling.com
01:42:49  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZNC
01:43:01  <defunctzombie>this is how some of us are always on IRC
01:43:01  <st_luke>ah
01:43:16  <defunctzombie>substack: I bounce from another personal server of mine
01:43:20  <defunctzombie>the one for courseoff haha
01:43:23  <Raynos>I just use irccloud
01:43:36  <st_luke>defunctzombie: if you end up doing it I'll pitch in, I'm indifferent to platform but cheaper is probably better for this kinda thing
01:43:59  <defunctzombie>st_luke: cool, yea the 5$ month box is so cheap that i don't even care if it is just me haha
01:44:28  <st_luke>yea, I just set one of those up, not too bad for $5
01:44:32  <defunctzombie>we could offer it up to others that are interested, I have a few other friends that I think might use it
01:44:42  <defunctzombie>st_luke: I have 3 with them already
01:44:47  <defunctzombie>haha
01:44:53  <defunctzombie>so cheap I don't even think about it
01:45:00  <st_luke>for hosting a few static sites it's great
01:45:11  <st_luke>it's like the price of shared hosting but none of the bullshit
01:45:12  <defunctzombie>and I use github to host my other static shit
01:45:14  <defunctzombie>like blog and stuff
01:45:18  <defunctzombie>yea
01:45:33  <st_luke>im using this giant monitor and its weird as fuck
01:45:39  <st_luke>its gonna make me adopt bad habits
01:45:44  <defunctzombie>probably
01:45:56  <defunctzombie>osX doesn't have good tiling support
01:46:00  <defunctzombie>makes me sad
01:46:02  <defunctzombie>sadpanda
01:46:04  <st_luke>ive been using spectacle which works really well
01:46:16  <st_luke>spectacle is like the best os x tiling app ive used
01:46:34  <st_luke>there's one that's popular but there are a million things to configure and a config file to write
01:46:46  <st_luke>and then there's that other one where you drag the size you want which im not a fan of
01:47:15  <defunctzombie>I just wish there was a way to disable the shadow border
01:47:17  <defunctzombie>and title bar
01:47:19  <st_luke>this one i just have shortcuts for left/right half, full screen, centered, each quarter
01:47:19  <defunctzombie>then it would be better
01:47:27  <defunctzombie>whoever though title bars were cool should be shot
01:47:35  <defunctzombie>20px of wasted space all the time
01:47:38  <st_luke>the title bar on specific windows?
01:47:42  <defunctzombie>yea
01:47:42  <st_luke>or the menu bar at top
01:47:56  <defunctzombie>title bar on windows
01:48:03  <st_luke>never really bothered me that much
01:48:03  <substack>I like tiny screens
01:48:17  <substack>I can bring them with me wherever I go
01:48:22  <st_luke>going to the air already gave me a pretty good boost in vertical space cause it has a higher resolution than the 13" pro
01:48:25  <defunctzombie>st_luke: once you go full tiling you never go back
01:48:31  <defunctzombie>substack: haha
01:48:44  <Raynos>Anyone have a good alternative to https://github.com/Raynos/individual ?
01:48:50  <substack>the center of vision with the highest retina density is not very big in the first place
01:49:36  <st_luke>defunctzombie: now that valve cares about steam support on linux I'm interested to see if the video card vendors write better drivers, then maybe linux desktop UIs wont be so sluggish in a few years
01:49:52  <defunctzombie>Raynos: won't it break for the "load modules in their own global space" option to node?
01:49:56  <substack>I'm nervous about big screens for many of the same reasons that IDEs make me skeptical
01:50:09  <defunctzombie>st_luke: the vid cards area already quite good
01:50:16  <Raynos>defunctzombie: yes but if you do that screw you
01:50:20  <defunctzombie>st_luke: then again, I haven't used typical desktop linux in years
01:50:24  <Raynos>`instanceof Error` also breaks if you do that
01:50:25  <defunctzombie>I run debian unstable
01:50:27  <substack>if I can fit a lot of code on the same screen that's probably a bad thing
01:50:30  <defunctzombie>with awesome
01:50:32  <defunctzombie>and that is it
01:50:36  <defunctzombie>mostly to have a "server" dekstop
01:50:36  <substack>since I might start to write a lot of code
01:50:56  <defunctzombie>substack: I find technology does influence the amount of code people write
01:51:06  <defunctzombie>Raynos: nice
01:51:52  <Raynos>but the question was I hat globals, how do I do shared state without globals :p
01:52:15  <defunctzombie>Raynos: "I use it myself because opening a SockJS websocket to the same URI twice causes an infinite loop."
01:52:17  <defunctzombie>wtf
01:52:26  <defunctzombie>sounds like that is the issue that needs to be fixed and not the singleton haha
01:52:37  <Raynos> defunctzombie: browser limitation
01:52:42  <defunctzombie>Raynos: spaceport :p
01:52:51  <defunctzombie>hahaha
01:52:58  <Raynos>im dead serious
01:53:03  <Raynos>its a browser limitation
01:53:12  <defunctzombie>what is?
01:53:14  <Raynos>anyway its also for performance reasons
01:53:26  <defunctzombie>the infinite loop thing?
01:53:30  <Raynos>I want to memoize a single tcp socket to a thing
01:53:33  <defunctzombie>the browser fails when you open two?
01:54:05  <defunctzombie>Raynos: is this a client or server side lib?
01:54:08  <Raynos>although maybe I want to actually socket pool it instead of memoizing
01:54:13  <Raynos>this a browser library
01:54:22  <defunctzombie>k
01:54:49  <defunctzombie>Raynos: I think globals is a fine enough solution
01:55:02  <defunctzombie>simple at least
01:55:05  <Raynos>I like the fact I can hide it behind a module called individual :p
01:55:09  <Raynos>pretend it's not a global
01:55:09  <defunctzombie>haha
01:55:23  <defunctzombie>I mean, you can pretend haha
01:55:32  <defunctzombie>it is singleton
01:55:38  <Raynos>yes
01:55:45  <Raynos>the singleton name was already taken on npm
01:56:21  <dominictarr>okay, rvagg Raynos I think I've figured it out
01:56:22  <dominictarr>https://github.com/rvagg/node-levelup/issues/80
01:56:27  <Raynos>> singleton java class
01:56:32  <Raynos>https://npmjs.org/package/singleton
01:56:36  <Raynos>-.-
01:57:06  <defunctzombie>coffeescript
01:57:07  <defunctzombie>kill me now
01:57:18  <defunctzombie>"The most tested singleton javascript class ever"
01:57:18  <defunctzombie>wow
01:57:49  <Raynos>did you find a github link?
01:57:54  <Raynos>does it have 0 tests? :D
01:58:00  <defunctzombie>https://github.com/wlaurance/singleton
01:58:03  <dominictarr>first hoarders and then THIS?
01:58:30  <dominictarr>okay, someone post a "Singleton is not cute" issue
01:58:33  <Raynos>https://github.com/wlaurance/singleton/blob/master/src/singleton.coffee xd
01:58:44  * ins0mniaquit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
01:59:24  <dominictarr>oh, it has a bug too
01:59:40  <Raynos>dominictarr: wait a second is https://github.com/Raynos/ready-signal the same as dominictarr/observable ?
01:59:44  <defunctzombie>I am not sure it even works
01:59:44  <dominictarr>because of node modules, it's possible to get more than one version of the singleton
01:59:49  <defunctzombie>yea
01:59:51  <defunctzombie>rofl
02:00:35  <dominictarr>Raynos: no, because you can't do readySignal(value)
02:00:43  <Raynos>you can
02:00:47  <Raynos>its just not documented
02:00:48  <dominictarr>and get onReady(value) calledback?
02:00:57  <defunctzombie>Raynos: if the "Object" is global to all modules in node you could monkey patch onto that
02:01:07  <defunctzombie>not saying you should.. just saying you _could_ hahaha
02:01:13  <dominictarr>oh, also‚Ķ v(function) returns a clean up function
02:01:18  <defunctzombie>but really, just use the global
02:02:22  <Raynos>dominictarr: ready-signal is different because it's promise style, i.e. it happens once, observable is stream style
02:02:41  <dominictarr>It's not stream style
02:02:59  <dominictarr>not really
02:03:10  <dominictarr>because it's only about properties
02:03:25  <dominictarr>like in FRP
02:03:48  <dominictarr>and it supports 2 way bindings
02:04:04  <Raynos>oh wait
02:04:16  <Raynos>observable is about a stateful thing you can observe
02:05:45  <dominictarr>yeah, and use to define new state interms of other state
02:05:53  <dominictarr>see observable.compute
02:06:17  <dominictarr>and observable.not, .transform...
02:06:31  <dominictarr>well, define new values
02:06:48  <dominictarr>without adding new state, because it's just interms of other state.
02:07:21  <Raynos>dominictarr: you should write it gozala style. `var transform = require("observable/transform"); var a = observable(); var b = transform(a, function () { ... })`
02:07:40  <Raynos>dominictarr: but it's new state though
02:07:47  <Raynos>unless you redo the entire transformation stack on each read
02:08:40  <dominictarr>Raynos: it's not a new state, because it's allways consistent with the source state
02:09:07  <dominictarr>Raynos: do you mean gozala style == in a separate file?
02:09:12  <Raynos>yes
02:09:23  <dominictarr>too many files
02:09:25  <dominictarr>pain
02:09:41  <dominictarr>if the files are small, one file is fine
02:10:07  <dominictarr>Raynos: state is when the states change independently
02:10:26  <dominictarr>if they always change in step, that isn't a new state
02:10:57  <Raynos>dominictarr: your right
02:11:00  <Raynos>transform has no new state
02:11:00  <substack>why are so many people so wrong about modules
02:11:04  <substack>infurating
02:11:16  <substack>they care about unimportant things and don't care about the important things
02:11:19  <dominictarr>substack: what is it this time?
02:11:27  <Raynos>substack: what's the correct way to do it? A single index.js < 200 lines and a single export?
02:11:38  <substack>wycats/jcoglan having silly ideas about modules on twitter
02:11:47  <substack>Raynos: pretty much
02:12:04  <substack>although I was characterize it more as "good enough" instead of "correct"
02:12:23  <Raynos>what if you want multiple exports for a module?
02:12:52  <substack>then you can do that because exports can be whatever kind of object you want it to be
02:15:43  <dominictarr>concepts like "correct" don't apply in this context.
02:15:45  <defunctzombie>the main issue is that he thinks filesystem = module organization and that doesn't have to be the case
02:15:47  <dominictarr>it's just about judgement
02:16:01  <defunctzombie>he is just used to one way versus how we do it
02:16:07  <defunctzombie>it isn't right or wrong, just different
02:16:09  <dominictarr>he's used to ruby
02:16:14  <defunctzombie>he should just accept it and move on
02:16:30  <Raynos>lol ruby
02:17:18  <mbalho>dominictarr: i got my kindle today, and got the terminal emulator running on it + logged into my raspberry pi with it
02:17:32  <mbalho>dominictarr: im hacking the terminal emulator to support landscape mode now
02:17:38  <mbalho>dominictarr: but i think its gonna work out
02:17:47  <dominictarr>SWEEEEEEEEEEEEET
02:18:21  <dominictarr>how wide is the terminal? does it fit 80 lines in portrait?
02:18:30  <mbalho>dominictarr: roughly yea
02:18:33  <mbalho>romon wait
02:18:34  <dominictarr>80 chars?
02:18:39  <mbalho>dominictarr: in portrait no
02:18:41  <mbalho>dominictarr: landscape yes
02:18:44  <mbalho>dominictarr: though font size is configurage
02:18:47  <mbalho>configurable*
02:18:49  <dominictarr>how many chars?
02:18:58  <mbalho>duno
02:19:00  <mbalho>ill test
02:19:08  <dominictarr>s/chars/cols/
02:19:27  <mbalho>dominictarr: its pretty big, doesnt have a count, but font size can get pretty small
02:19:48  <mbalho>and its still readable at small size, though my eyes kinda suck so i like bigger
02:19:58  <dominictarr>open vim and move cursor to the right
02:20:23  <mbalho>dominictarr: it has vi, not vim (though you can install vim)
02:20:40  <defunctzombie>substack: anyone bitching about cross testing in node and browsers is stupid
02:20:47  <defunctzombie>we know how easy it is
02:20:49  <dominictarr>raspberry pi has vi?
02:21:06  <defunctzombie>I have many things that I seamlessly ported to use testling ci
02:21:21  <mbalho>dominictarr: ahh shoul dhave clarified, kindle runs linux + vi
02:21:26  <defunctzombie>substack: you should make a zuul adapter for tap output :)
02:21:43  <defunctzombie>substack: zuul is a very useful tool for local debug before handing off to testling-ci
02:21:55  <substack>defunctzombie: yes everything is actually easy, this is why I find everybody running around using how hard things are supposed to be as justification for language changes so infuriating
02:22:00  <substack>everything is actually really easy
02:22:09  <dominictarr>mbalho: right, but you can ssh to the rpi and run vim there
02:22:11  <defunctzombie>substack: I just think many people don't realize there is a handful of ery useful modules with almost no learning curve
02:22:21  <defunctzombie>substack: agreed
02:22:25  <defunctzombie>so stupid
02:22:31  <defunctzombie>substack: engineers gonna overengineer
02:22:40  <dominictarr>I thought that was the whole point?
02:22:52  <mbalho>dominictarr: yes i know
02:23:04  <mbalho>dominictarr: my rpi is in my bag right now
02:23:12  <substack>defunctzombie: I should start giving talks about how modularity is actually really easy
02:23:27  <substack>you just need to throw away some unhelpful ideas first
02:23:38  <defunctzombie>you should deff do it
02:23:47  <defunctzombie>maybe some screenrecordings or such
02:23:52  <substack>that's a good idea
02:24:03  * mikolalysenkoquit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
02:24:03  <substack>I can cross-post them to the browserify.org blog
02:24:13  <defunctzombie>there is a small foundation of tools I have built on for common things like testing and rapid dev
02:24:22  <defunctzombie>substack: yea
02:24:27  <substack>yes the tools are all really simple
02:25:08  <substack>I think people object to the node way of doing things because it's harder to write overly complicated grandiose apis
02:25:19  <substack>which is something of a feature but we need to communicate this better
02:25:46  * fotoveritejoined
02:28:12  <defunctzombie>substack: agreed again
02:30:34  <defunctzombie>substack: also, while I was riding the train back from a meetup today I had the idea
02:30:40  <defunctzombie>that we should have "office" hours on IRC
02:30:45  <defunctzombie>where people can ask a question
02:30:54  <defunctzombie>and we answer it and discuss it a bit
02:31:03  <defunctzombie>like what past experience got us there
02:31:09  <defunctzombie>or what other things have been tried
02:31:13  <defunctzombie>and then answer another question
02:31:17  <dominictarr>substack: organize a modularity survivalist camp
02:31:46  <dominictarr>everyone learns to write rewirte society from scratch
02:32:33  <substack>defunctzombie: wow that's a really good idea
02:32:41  <substack>register a channel #node-office
02:33:05  <substack>oh and then after each office hours we can do a write-up and post it online in blog-form!
02:33:16  <defunctzombie>yes!
02:33:21  <substack>we could also do a live public access call in show later
02:33:32  <defunctzombie>I would do js office even maybe or something
02:33:48  <defunctzombie>the awesome thing is all these node things I have learned have made me a much better front end dev
02:34:02  <defunctzombie>much much better organized and focused on how things can be better
02:34:09  <substack>maybe a google hangout + irc show?
02:34:12  <dominictarr>mbalho: what kindle did you get?
02:34:24  <substack>but a show where people ask questions and we answer them
02:35:09  <defunctzombie>substack: I would totally do that
02:35:47  <substack>if we put the shows up on youtube I think we could serve the topics better
02:35:51  <substack>since with video you can show code
02:36:07  <substack>just talking about code is good but not quite enough
02:40:13  <defunctzombie>so here is the thing with resisting using the current require syntax we have
02:40:14  <mbalho>dominictarr: paperwhite
02:40:26  <defunctzombie>our tooling for it has gotten so good that if there does come a day where we need another syntax
02:40:32  <defunctzombie>we can just make a transform tool
02:40:38  <defunctzombie>and re-save all the code
02:40:47  <defunctzombie>it is trivial when you realize code is just data
02:40:53  <defunctzombie>so make that data easier to process
02:41:23  <dominictarr>mbalho: was it very hard to set up?
02:41:54  <mbalho>dominictarr: no harder than yours, just lotsa little hacks
02:42:54  <dominictarr>right, except that we never got mine actually working
02:44:51  <mbalho>dominictarr: well yea its just that the terminal emulator didnt run on yoru OS
02:45:18  <dominictarr>right
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03:05:42  <substack>defunctzombie: ok module-deps is now using browser-resolve directly
03:06:02  <substack>now I'm hacking the transform functionality into it
03:06:06  <substack>already wrote failing tests for it
03:06:15  <substack>oh but actually, heading out to dinner
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03:29:36  <defunctzombie>substack: so is browserify not using it? is module-deps going to do browser module dep stuff now? maybe I don't follow
03:45:07  <dominictarr>rvagg: okay I got something kinda simple that looks like it's gonna work
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04:05:43  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) browserling@... successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
04:05:43  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
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04:19:36  <dominictarr>rvagg: Raynos this seems to be working https://github.com/dominictarr/subdb
04:19:50  <dominictarr>just a basic proof of concept though
04:20:24  <dominictarr>It's not a proper level plugin yet
04:21:49  <Raynos>"proper level plugin" :D
04:22:55  <dominictarr>well, you know, a usable one
04:22:55  <Raynos>oh interesting
04:23:05  <Raynos>your index.js is a minimal leveldb thing
04:23:17  <Raynos>you can use level cache for in memory thing ( https://github.com/Raynos/level-cache )
04:23:46  <dominictarr>I think I started this when I was offline, which is why I didn't have that.
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05:20:44  <Raynos>dominictarr: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/29330499
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05:35:24  <ralphtheninja>hey, does anyone have any pointers on how to use Stream.Duplex from the streams2 api?
05:35:37  <ralphtheninja>trying to wrap my head on how _read() and _write() are supposed to work
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06:12:17  <hij1nx>added level-delete-range to lev -- https://github.com/hij1nx/lev
06:13:19  <rvagg>very nice
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06:31:21  <hij1nx>rvagg: very practical, starting to have some very large levels ;)
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06:43:23  <defunctzombie>substack: I Bcc'd you on an email I sent about some module stuff
06:44:21  <defunctzombie>substack: jcoglan asked for feedback about it after I pinged him on IRC so I responded with some initial thoughts
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07:05:32  <substack>ok!
07:05:42  <substack>just got my 2nd replacement battery in the mail yay
07:06:18  <substack>I've got about 13 hours of battery capacity now
07:06:50  <substack>defunctzombie_zz: module-deps is going to do the pre-transformations
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07:53:33  <Raynos>Sometimes I forgot how silly some other OS people are
07:53:48  <Raynos>Gozala & dominictarr get semver right and publish v2 and v3 of modules all the time
07:54:11  <Raynos>lots of other devs are in the "we are moving towards 1.0 and its going to be stable and ready soon"
07:54:40  <Raynos>ralphtheninja: you use _read for reading and _write for writing :D
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08:55:44  <dominictarr>it's SEMANTIC VERSIONING no SENTIMENTAL VERSIONING!
08:56:41  <dominictarr>Raynos: I know rite, I think my highest is scuttlebutt is up to 5 breaking changes
08:57:34  <dominictarr>Raynos: after this discussion I think I'm gonna start everything at 1.0.0 instead of 0.0.0
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10:05:06  <ehd>0.x.x should be known as the closet version range
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12:29:38  <substack>transform test in module-deps now passes!
12:29:55  <substack>but it's only doing PATH spawned commands
12:30:10  <substack>tomorrow I'll get the module-level transforms working
12:33:04  <substack>unit tests: pretty much the best thing
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14:32:15  <juliangruber>Raynos: nodejs is pre 1.0.0 and did breaking changes
14:48:20  <ins0mnia>Raynos: added support for textContent, attributes setter/getter, going to do the same for style, ClassList (add/remove/toggle) and push
14:48:52  <ins0mnia>actually will will push this first
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15:29:09  <pkrumins>on march 1st it's 3 years since we're doing browserling
15:33:53  <jesusabdullah>niiice
15:37:49  <defunctzombie>wow
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15:42:32  <pkrumins>defunctzombie: i'm sorry it will take some time to get the ssl cert
15:42:40  <defunctzombie>:(
15:42:41  <pkrumins>defunctzombie: the ssl cert company decided to verify our company records
15:42:45  <defunctzombie>sadpanda
15:42:48  <defunctzombie>pkrumins: ?
15:42:53  <defunctzombie>what type of cert did you get
15:43:01  <pkrumins>comodo instantssl
15:43:14  <defunctzombie>fascinating, ive never had delays with that stuff
15:43:22  <defunctzombie>used namecheap to do it many times
15:43:26  <pkrumins>defunctzombie: so it will take one to two weeks to get the mail letter from them and send back the requested documents
15:43:35  <defunctzombie>wtf...
15:43:36  <pkrumins>defunctzombie: yes, i got browserling cert in 1 day
15:43:45  <defunctzombie>this sounds weird
15:43:57  <defunctzombie>they don't need that level of verification for those low level certs
15:44:16  <pkrumins>idk
15:50:53  <pkrumins>testling-ci up to 153 repos, 53 users!
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16:17:25  <defunctzombie>\o/
16:19:44  <juliangruber>rvagg: will leveljs have the leveldown api?
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16:36:09  <hij1nx>leveljs FTW!! :D
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17:05:07  <Raynos>defunctzombie, substack: I want something like browser: "./browser.js" except for a folder
17:05:32  <Raynos>I have a browser folder with a bunch of files in it and a bunch of files in the root folder
17:06:01  <Raynos>so I want require("a/b") to return ./b for node and ./browser/b for browsers
17:08:28  <Raynos>defunctzombie: https://gist.github.com/shtylman/4339901 this sohuld be a github repo so we can use issues
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17:44:02  <defunctzombie>Raynos: you can do that already iirc
17:44:16  <defunctzombie>the "key" part of the field is a relative path from root
17:44:20  <defunctzombie>so in your case you would have:
17:44:41  <defunctzombie>"./a/b.js": "./browser.js"
17:44:45  <defunctzombie>if that makes sense
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17:46:45  <defunctzombie>Raynos: or it might be "./a/b/index.js" : "./browser.js" depending on what you are going for
17:46:59  <defunctzombie>Raynos: the way it works is the require is resolved, and the keys in package.json are resolved
17:47:09  <defunctzombie>and if the two paths resolve ot the same, a replacement can be made
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17:52:54  <defunctzombie>isaacs: http://blog.izs.me/post/44149270867/why-no-directories-lib-in-node-the-less-snarky (the portability part is not good advice)
17:54:05  <defunctzombie>you should not do this in the source code
17:54:16  <defunctzombie>it is entirely up to the runtime/bundler/meta information
17:54:37  <defunctzombie>doing it in the source will lead to more problems and is inconsistent and no one knows the right way to do it
17:55:15  <defunctzombie>Raynos: unless I misunderstood your request, it should already work as you expect
17:55:47  <defunctzombie>substack: browser-resolve is going to change api slightly I think
17:56:35  <defunctzombie>substack: instead of shipping with the corelib shims, it will take an opt argument of { "lib": "path" } so the user of browser resolve is able to specify their own shim location map
17:56:55  <defunctzombie>substack: I think this is more versatile and keeps browser-resolve doing just package.json browser field handling and locating
17:57:07  <defunctzombie>versus also being responsible for corelib shims
17:57:21  <defunctzombie>I should have done that from the start :)
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18:09:36  <Raynos>defunctzombie: not like that
18:09:43  <Raynos>I mean I publish module FOO
18:10:04  <Raynos>when someone ELSE require("foo/a") I want them to load ./a or ./browser/a based on env
18:10:19  <defunctzombie>Raynos: I know, and I think that should be currently happening
18:10:25  <defunctzombie>if not, I will fix browser-resolve
18:10:29  <Raynos>oh so that should work?
18:10:31  <defunctzombie>it *should* work like this
18:10:32  <defunctzombie>yes
18:10:44  <Raynos>so I just do { "./a": "./browser/a" } and it works?
18:10:47  <defunctzombie>yes
18:10:47  <Raynos>ok cool
18:10:50  <defunctzombie>;)
18:10:54  <defunctzombie>don't forget the .js
18:11:02  <defunctzombie>those are file mappings
18:11:10  <defunctzombie>"./a.js" : "./browser/a.js"
18:12:16  <Raynos>ok cool
18:12:28  <Raynos>now what about other environments then just node / browser
18:12:31  <defunctzombie>if it doesn't, make test case and submit issue and I will fix
18:12:33  <Raynos>out of scope?
18:12:40  <defunctzombie>Raynos: out of scope for browser-resolve
18:12:48  <defunctzombie>but they can just add field to package.json in the same way
18:12:52  <defunctzombie>and leave the decision to runtime
18:13:22  <defunctzombie>if node core was smaller it would be even more awesome cause you would have to shim out even less, but that doesn't matter
18:13:27  <defunctzombie>browser field is versatile
18:13:34  <defunctzombie>and other envs could do the same shit
18:13:42  <defunctzombie>but the reality is this: there are no other envs
18:13:52  <defunctzombie>no one gives a shit about anything other than node or browser ;)
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18:37:50  <ins0mnia>arhttps://npmjs.org/package/html-element
18:37:54  <ins0mnia>https://npmjs.org/package/html-element
18:38:11  <ins0mnia>sweet, small and delcious
18:42:57  <defunctzombie>thats crazy
18:44:17  <ins0mnia>defunctzombie: html-element?
18:44:21  <defunctzombie>yea
18:44:25  <ins0mnia>it's awesome :)
18:44:37  <ins0mnia>lol
18:44:47  <defunctzombie>crazy awesome
18:45:48  <ins0mnia>hehe yeah, this will make hyperscript render on the server too :)
18:45:57  <ins0mnia>hyperscript is hyperawesome
18:46:31  <isaacs>defunctzombie: well, it should definitely not be in node-core.
18:46:40  <isaacs>defunctzombie: but sure, you should use a bundler that does all this for you
18:46:57  <defunctzombie>it most certainly should not be in node code :)
18:47:32  <ins0mnia>:)
18:47:47  <defunctzombie>isaacs: we have to educate people about good clean ways to do this that are hedging for the future!
18:47:56  <defunctzombie>if I can build smart tools to analyze my module deps today
18:48:06  <defunctzombie>this means I can do very interesting improvements tomorrow
18:49:47  <isaacs>defunctzombie: sure.
18:49:51  <isaacs>defunctzombie: i don't have to convince oyu
18:50:05  <isaacs>defunctzombie: there are like 4 jcoglans in the world building programs like this.
18:50:19  <defunctzombie>haha
18:50:21  <isaacs>harsh as it may sound, i'm kinda ok throwing them under the bus in favor of making node simpler for the masses.
18:50:48  <defunctzombie>isaacs: I sent him a long email describing the merrits of the simple require approach
18:50:57  <defunctzombie>and all the cools things it can do
18:51:06  <defunctzombie>but yea
18:51:24  <defunctzombie>really the issue is the mindset set on old complex ways that are hard to understand
18:51:31  <defunctzombie>versus simpler things
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19:33:41  <Raynos>defunctzombie, substack: I need something to hack / hook into to rewrite mock ( https://github.com/Colingo/mock ) for browserify 2.0
19:34:25  <Raynos>isaacs: if I mention the LICENCE in the README and the package.json do I need a LICENCE file in the root? What are the legal preferences for LICENCE files in a project root folder?
19:35:25  <isaacs>Raynos: ianal
19:35:28  <isaacs>Raynos: dunno
19:35:56  <defunctzombie>Raynos: provide a license file
19:36:05  <defunctzombie>mentioning is not actually adequate
19:36:09  <defunctzombie>the words need to be there
19:36:15  <Raynos>blargh
19:36:19  <defunctzombie>that is the best thing to do legally :)
19:36:31  <Raynos>but the licence file is noise ;_;
19:36:33  <defunctzombie>welcome to america
19:36:40  <Raynos>i want it out of my repos
19:36:48  <Raynos>package.json, README, code, test folder, examples folder
19:36:51  <Raynos>that's it.
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19:38:06  <defunctzombie>we can't have nice things
19:38:45  * spionwants yield
19:40:36  <defunctzombie>no you don't
19:40:37  <defunctzombie>hahaha
19:41:26  <spion>why not? :P
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19:54:40  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) pdoherty926@... successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
19:55:30  <CoverSlide>yield is just hacky. use callbacks like a big boy
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20:40:35  <Raynos>substack, defunctzombie: how do I use https://github.com/Colingo/mock with browserify 2.0?
20:45:38  <defunctzombie>so you are trying to dependency inject into b?
20:46:55  <defunctzombie>you are also messing with the require cache which is gonna lead to issues
20:47:07  <defunctzombie>right now I don't see a way because modules are self contained in their lookups
20:47:35  <defunctzombie>but I am thinking
20:52:01  <defunctzombie>Raynos: my initial thoughts are that we would need to expose .resolve and .cache
20:52:23  <defunctzombie>if there was any hope of supporting this
20:52:31  <defunctzombie>Raynos: substack might have a more clever idea
20:52:34  <Raynos>probably something like that
20:52:46  <Raynos>My use-case is to dependency inject timers, http, fs, xhr etc into my modules
20:52:49  <Raynos>so I can write unit tests
20:52:54  <defunctzombie>sure
20:53:01  <Raynos>this only for the reason of writing unit tests, nothing else
20:53:02  <defunctzombie>with http I just use nock
20:53:12  <defunctzombie>I think that is what it is called
20:53:20  <Raynos>i prefer the mock style of creating a fresh module instead of hacking global things
20:53:27  <Raynos>the way it messes with the cache is dangerous
20:53:34  <defunctzombie>I can understand that
20:54:17  <defunctzombie>I think exposing .cache and .resolve could solve the issue
20:54:23  <Raynos>cool
20:54:23  <defunctzombie>we shall see
20:54:41  <Raynos>this will probably increase the size of the require implementation
20:54:42  <defunctzombie>Raynos: you could give it a try by editing the browser-pack prelude.js file
20:54:44  <Raynos>so it should be opt-in
20:55:04  <defunctzombie>and see if that actually makes it work how you intend
20:55:15  <defunctzombie>before adding anything I would like to explore the options :)
20:56:04  <Raynos>:)
21:08:03  <jjjjohnnny>anybody got something for converting node buffers into arraybuffers?
21:09:25  <jjjjohnnny>i'll try this seemingly obvious answer
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22:50:59  <mbalho>jjjjohnnny: new arraybuffer(buffer) i think
22:51:36  <dominictarr>Raynos: https://github.com/1N50MN14/html-element/pull/6#issuecomment-14205516
22:53:42  <rvagg>mbalho: did you get node to compile?
22:53:54  <rvagg>mbalho: and can you still run the normal kindle software on that thing?
22:54:04  <rvagg>mbalho: in other words, I WANT TO DO THIS TO MY KINDLE!
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23:25:45  <mbalho>rvagg: kindle is basically android
23:25:59  <mbalho>rvagg: which version of the kindle do you have?
23:26:11  <rvagg>mbalho: paperwhite
23:26:23  <mbalho>rvagg: i jailbroke mine (which just means overwriting the dev certs to run unsigned code)
23:26:30  <mbalho>rvagg: ahh cool i have the paperwhite as well
23:26:43  <rvagg>mbalho: so you can still run everything as normal but you can install anything else you like?
23:26:46  <mbalho>rvagg: yep
23:26:49  <mbalho>rvagg: im running https://github.com/bfabiszewski/kterm on there now
23:26:56  <rvagg>I want
23:27:11  <mbalho>rvagg: it is an annoying process to get it all configured correctly
23:27:20  <rvagg>mbalho: did you get node to compile there yet?
23:27:21  <mbalho>rvagg: mostly because all the tutorials are in forum posts
23:27:25  <mbalho>rvagg: nope
23:27:31  <rvagg>mbalho: I may be able to help with the compiling bit
23:27:33  <mbalho>rvagg: i dont have a cross compile setup on this laptop
23:27:52  <mbalho>rvagg: paperwhite has busybox on there by default
23:28:01  <rvagg>oh, that'
23:28:02  <mbalho>rvagg: and the kindle hacker community wrote a USB networking layer
23:28:04  <rvagg>that's nice
23:28:20  * mikealjoined
23:28:28  <mbalho>rvagg: so you can ssh in with root:mario to any paperwhite after it gets the usb networking stuff installed
23:28:44  <mbalho>rvagg: then you can enable ssh over wifi, and a buncha other neat stuff
23:29:35  <rvagg>mbalho: can you point me to your source of jailbreak info?
23:29:49  <rvagg>google's throwing up lots of cruft
23:29:58  <mbalho>yea
23:30:31  <mbalho>rvagg: if you are running 5.3.3 you have to downgrade to 5.3.1 first, but its easy
23:30:52  <mbalho>rvagg: heres what i used http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198446
23:31:07  <rvagg>mm, I'm on 5.3.3
23:31:25  <mbalho>rvagg: you just put the 5.3.1 installer on the usb drive and then 'update my kindle'
23:31:45  <mbalho>rvagg: theres also a hack i found that disables the OTA automatic firmware update which i snice
23:32:13  <mbalho>rvagg: this is the other main source of info http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203326
23:33:50  <mbalho>rvagg: what you should do is downgrade, jailbreak, upgrade back to 5.3.3 and then "[2i] Kindlet Jailbreak & [2ii] Shared Developer Keys:"
23:34:05  <mbalho>rvagg: i think "The Kindlet developer certificates. (standalone installer package here - re-installation required after firmware update!)" and "[2i] Kindlet Jailbreak & [2ii] Shared Developer Keys:" are actually the same thing
23:34:34  <mbalho>rvagg: but once you have the unified application launcher installed then you can just drag/drop apps into the usb drive to install them
23:35:46  <rvagg>cool, trying to downgrade now
23:35:47  <mbalho>rvagg: the workflow that i'm shooting for is to have the raspberry pi, kindle and a bluetooth keyboard
23:36:12  * dominictarrquit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
23:36:26  <mbalho>rvagg: the cool part about that is the kindle can connect to the raspi over wifi so the screen and keyboard will be wireless
23:36:36  <mbalho>rvagg: and the raspi can hook up to a monitor as well
23:36:42  <mbalho>so i can use it at meetups :D
23:36:58  <rvagg>hah, that's cool
23:37:16  <rvagg>I have an underused raspi
23:37:46  * st_lukejoined
23:39:14  <rvagg>you might have trouble with webgl on a kindle.. that's the only drawback I suppose
23:39:38  <rvagg>tho perhaps.... at 0.2fps
23:40:41  <mbalho>rvagg: im trying to compile notes here https://gist.github.com/maxogden/5052838
23:40:46  <mbalho>rvagg: lol
23:40:52  <mbalho>rvagg: i got elinks to run on it :D
23:41:31  <mbalho>rvagg: have you seen this talk? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLeZXSKePhQ
23:42:19  <CoverSlide>dude looks like conan o'brien
23:42:29  <substack>defunctzombie_zz: ok the new module transforms stuff is working :D !!!
23:42:36  <rvagg>mbalho: haven't, watching now
23:42:47  <substack>amazingly the test suite passed on my first attempt
23:42:51  <mbalho>rvagg: also you might wanna download https://github.com/bfabiszewski/kterm/issues/2#issuecomment-14204814, its a build of kterm that allows for landscape mode (which breaks the on screen keyboard but i'm not gonna use that anyway)
23:43:06  <substack>now just documenting this!
23:43:47  <substack>mbalho: with browserify transforms it will be really easy to package static assets by looking for fs.readFileSync calls
23:44:01  <mbalho>rvagg: oh yea other benefit is i can a) compute outdoors (terminal only) and b) battery will last for at least 20 hours
23:44:17  <mbalho>substack: sweet
23:44:21  <substack>mbalho: speaking of that, my 2nd battery came in the post yesterday
23:44:32  <substack>so I have 2 batteries that are good for 5+ hours and 1 that is good for 3
23:44:42  <rvagg>mbalho: what are you powering your raspi from tho?
23:44:43  <mbalho>substack: woot! we should do a camp.js in the national forest in the east bay hills
23:44:47  <substack>13 hours, enough for an SF -> au flight
23:44:52  <mbalho>rvagg: usb battery pack
23:45:04  <rvagg>mbalho: url?
23:45:34  <mbalho>rvagg: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008YRG5JQ/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1
23:45:50  <rvagg>cheers
23:45:54  <mbalho>rvagg: that powers the rpi for ~1 week
23:46:19  <CoverSlide>sweet
23:46:27  <mbalho>rvagg: i also have http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0018O9JIG/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005CLMJLU/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 which both work on raspbian
23:47:15  <st_luke>rvagg Raynos ralphtheninja juliangruber hij1nx, anyone want to talk about leveldb on nodeup?
23:48:41  <mbalho>st_luke: heres a youtube for the show notes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDDpEBRGdew
23:50:03  <rvagg>"Please wait a moment while your Kindle is being freed." love it!
23:50:26  <st_luke>mbalho: maybe once the pure leveljs is more complete
23:50:28  <rvagg>st_luke: get dominictarr to do it
23:50:28  <ralphtheninja>st_luke: would be awesome if rvagg could talk about it, I'm not that comfortable talking about it yet, I know too little atm
23:50:37  <st_luke>mbalho: but the c++ one is where it's at now
23:51:03  <mbalho>st_luke: the talk is about leveldb
23:52:07  <rvagg>I'm starting to become an expert on how the internals of leveldb work, but I'm not sure how much help that is to anyone who's not implementing leveljs
23:52:23  <rvagg>tho there are some cool perf tips that come out of that knowledge
23:53:10  <mbalho>rvagg: a talk on leveldb internals would be interesting to me at least
23:53:15  <ralphtheninja>mbalho: did you buy some kind of usb hub as well?
23:53:33  <mbalho>ralphtheninja: nope i am only using the 2 usb devices
23:54:07  <ralphtheninja>would be cool to have a good keyboard to it .. like small and fast and easy to type on .. and hdmi glasses :)
23:55:08  <mbalho>ralphtheninja: i have one of the apple wireless keyboards, which is nice for me cause its the same form factor as the macbook keyboards
23:55:18  <mbalho>ralphtheninja: i dunno about hdmi glasses though hahah
23:55:38  <st_luke>mbalho: does the kindle have 3g on it?
23:55:41  <st_luke>the one you're messing with
23:56:04  * yorickquit (Remote host closed the connection)
23:56:12  <mbalho>st_luke: yea
23:57:32  <ralphtheninja>mbalho: any link to the keyboard?
23:57:33  <CoverSlide>http://www.apple.com/keyboard/ ?
23:57:52  <mbalho>yep
23:57:58  <ralphtheninja>thanks
23:58:22  * dominictarrjoined
23:58:26  <ralphtheninja>mbalho: aah that's what you use the bluetooth for
23:59:11  <rvagg>ralphtheninja: I have one of these for my mythtv box: http://www.logitech.com/en-au/product/Wireless-touch-keyboard-k400r?crid=26 they're quite nice, perhaps slightly larger than would be good for a kindle+rasp
23:59:28  <Raynos>St_luke I could talk if needed
23:59:49  <mbalho>rvagg: oh yea that would be perfect if it didnt have the touchpad
23:59:52  <mbalho>oops