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00:00:59  <substack>s/mbalho/chrisdickinson/
00:01:07  <CryptoQuick>hard to tell but… http://i.imgur.com/yTW2aPL.jpg
00:01:54  <CryptoQuick>anyway, it's 5pm, it's about time I check out
00:01:55  <CryptoQuick>I'll probably be on later tonight :)
00:01:57  <chrisdickinson>substack: don't get me wrong, i'd love to have a knob to turn that let me turn off cache permanently on certain websites
00:02:02  <chrisdickinson>or domains, rather
00:02:25  <chrisdickinson>or, hell, turn it off for all requests where the referrer would match a given domain
00:02:41  * CryptoQuickquit (Quit: CryptoQuick)
00:02:48  <chrisdickinson>that'd be nice, because then it'd nicely sidestep the issue of one domain not being cached but making requests to a cached domain
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00:05:45  <tilgovi>substack: I did a crazy.
00:05:47  <tilgovi>I'm building a little demo for CouchHack Berlin tomorrow to show it off.
00:05:51  <tilgovi>Working name is "chromify"
00:05:54  <tilgovi>browserify plugin that adds net and http modules straight from node source
00:06:00  <tilgovi>tcp_wrap and cares_wrap implemented on top of node packaged app APIs, direct socket access
00:06:10  <tilgovi>http_parser is actually joyent/http_parser with a little wrapper glue compiled through emscripten
00:06:26  <tilgovi>I have an http.createServer() hello world working in a chrome app
00:07:38  <substack>awesome
00:10:01  <tilgovi>Yeah. I'm amazed at how little I had to do.
00:10:16  <tilgovi>With so much of node core written in JS, the bindings are small and easily emulated
00:10:33  <tilgovi>I'll clean it up and get it online somewhere tomorrow after my talk.
00:11:36  <guybrush>just hold shift while refreshing/clicking
00:11:44  <guybrush>and your cache will be ignored in chrome
00:11:53  <guybrush>no need for another plugin/app whatever ^^
00:14:17  <substack>guybrush: that only works sometimes :(
00:15:02  <guybrush>oh weird
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00:19:15  <isaacs>tilgovi: that's awesome
00:20:03  <tilgovi>thanks
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00:46:22  <defunctzombie>tilgovi: I did that for a while, but in the end found it was easier to have duplicates since node core sources don't work well in the browser all the time. They have to be tweaked. Generally just like to avoid using node core browser side anyhow :)
00:46:43  <defunctzombie>tilgovi: https://github.com/shtylman/chrome-socket
00:46:48  <defunctzombie>that might be of interest to you
00:46:52  <tilgovi>cool. taking a look.
00:47:06  <tilgovi>I'm packaging some of the modules from 0.6.x inside chromify
00:47:12  <tilgovi>not trying to pull the user's local node install
00:47:25  <defunctzombie>tilgovi: as well as this https://github.com/shtylman/node-abe
00:48:09  <defunctzombie>abe will handle the typed array stuff that chrome socket outputs iirc
00:48:20  <defunctzombie>been a while since I looked at it but hopefully you find some of it useful
00:48:21  <tilgovi>ahhh, abe might help
00:48:33  <tilgovi>But I'm actually having little trouble with the arraybuffers
00:48:45  <tilgovi>since I use http-parser via emscripten I actually pass the arraybuffers in directly
00:48:55  <tilgovi>(well, modulo a "memcpy" of the buffer into the emscripten heap)
00:49:24  <defunctzombie>nice
00:49:25  <Raynos>defunctzombie: https://github.com/Raynos/insert#working-with-widgets
00:49:28  <tilgovi>did you ever try to get http working over chrome-socket?
00:50:01  <defunctzombie>tilgovi: nope, but I think it should be doable
00:50:09  <defunctzombie>someone else had a project where they ran http server in chrome
00:50:12  <defunctzombie>using chrome sockets
00:50:13  <tilgovi>well, I can tell you that :)
00:50:17  <defunctzombie>let me see if I can find that
00:50:18  <tilgovi><-- this guy
00:51:02  <defunctzombie>tilgovi: https://github.com/PaulKinlan/net-browserify
00:51:18  <defunctzombie>net-browserify was the thing that did some network stuff iirc
00:51:31  <defunctzombie>I never played with it since I had my own stuff at the time and stopped working on the chrome app stuff for a while
00:51:44  <tilgovi>looks like he never got to http
00:51:56  <tilgovi>also just socket
00:52:05  <defunctzombie>probably
00:52:18  <defunctzombie>Raynos: why make widget something special?
00:52:21  <tilgovi>I'm using net.js and http.js from node 0.6. I patch browserify's process.binding() to return JS implementations of the C++ V8 bindings
00:52:34  <tilgovi>and let the node core code do the heavy lifting (chunked encoding, etc)
00:52:41  <defunctzombie>you are coupling the library to the idea of a widget versus just a basic insertion lib
00:52:46  <Raynos>defunctzombie: it's nothing special, it's just a shortcut
00:52:55  <Raynos>it still does insertion
00:53:06  <tilgovi>the only change I've had to make so far was in freelist.js.... checking if the object has a "destructor" property and calling it so I can free the http_parser on the emscripten heap
00:53:08  <defunctzombie>tilgovi: yea, I got that from your description.. sounds pretty cool if doable
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00:53:32  <defunctzombie>Raynos: why not be explicit and grab .view directly?
00:53:49  <defunctzombie>Raynos: how do you know if something is a widget?
00:54:27  <Raynos>defunctzombie: https://gist.github.com/cb7b143016420468bf41
00:54:44  <Raynos>defunctzombie: https://github.com/Raynos/insert/blob/master/mutation.js#L18
00:55:40  <CoverSlide>how about working with NodeLists?
00:56:04  <defunctzombie>Raynos: I would not have the view stuff in the mutation
00:56:09  <defunctzombie>what if I don't have .view for my widgets
00:56:15  <defunctzombie>that stuff seems more higher level framework
00:56:23  <Raynos>defunctzombie: The idea here is that if we decide that a "widget" is an object with a view property then I can build functions that assume that
00:56:37  <Raynos>defunctzombie: maybe, but it's bloody convenient for my usecase :D
00:56:46  <Raynos>`return append(container, Widget(...))`
00:56:48  <defunctzombie>Raynos: I wouldn't make a generic decision about what a "widget" is other than some javascript
00:57:02  <defunctzombie>Raynos: and yes, I can understand it is convenient.. now you know why people use "frameworks" :p
00:57:05  <Raynos>fn Widget(input) -> output
00:57:20  <substack>I agree with defunctzombie on this
00:57:24  <Raynos>The only thing type Widget asks is that .view is a DOMElement
00:57:27  <substack>skeptical of all this widget magic
00:57:38  <substack>Raynos: why .view?
00:57:45  <Raynos>I don't care what it's called
00:57:50  <substack>if it's an element, why not .element?
00:57:53  <Raynos>I use .view because that's what my code uses
00:57:54  <defunctzombie>Raynos: for me, I would rather have my widget be able to take an element
00:58:00  <substack>all my widgets already use .element
00:58:01  <defunctzombie>rather than expose itself as one maybe
00:58:09  <substack>that too
00:58:10  <Raynos>defunctzombie: I don't like building things like that.
00:58:12  <defunctzombie>or in some cases maybe my "widget" doesn't even do any of that
00:58:18  <substack>I usually just have a tiny .appendTo function
00:58:24  <defunctzombie>and just searches and does stuff when invoked
00:58:30  <Raynos>.appendTo is too restricting
00:58:35  <substack>yep, lots of things that frontend libs can do
00:58:45  <Raynos>defunctzombie: a widget must have a DOMElement or else its bullshit magic
00:58:45  <defunctzombie>Raynos: I think the .view stuff gets into more glue/framework layer
00:58:47  <substack>Raynos: modularity is oftentimes about removing choices that don't matter
00:58:52  <defunctzombie>versus just code layer
00:59:03  <Raynos>substack: then support .insertBeforeTo
00:59:07  <defunctzombie>Raynos: depends on the "widget"
00:59:23  <Raynos>defunctzombie: obvouisly if it's a non DOM widget like webgl / canvas then fine
00:59:33  <Raynos>then it can be Widget(input, canvasContext) -> output
00:59:35  <defunctzombie>in the traditional sense, yea, it could have a dom element
00:59:42  <defunctzombie>but maybe it is more generic than that?
00:59:49  <substack>I just like nice self-contained apis
01:00:03  <substack>you don't need a standard spec to write those
01:00:06  <defunctzombie>when I think of widget i just think of some JS api and potential stylesheet I can use if I want
01:00:08  <substack>just do what makes sense
01:00:40  <defunctzombie>anything more than that fine, it is just convenience and framework definition
01:00:51  <defunctzombie>which is not a bad thing if simple and easy to use
01:00:59  <defunctzombie>for your project and such
01:01:05  <substack>simpleness is the most important part
01:01:18  <defunctzombie>if you want to make lots of classic style widgets with a .view exposed that is cool
01:01:22  <substack>be able to glance at an example and hack it in right away
01:01:25  <defunctzombie>but that should just be documented at the widget level
01:01:42  <defunctzombie>so that I know how to use your widget as a JS thing and not some framework component I guess
01:04:41  <Raynos>substack: but then they are not composable :/
01:07:28  <defunctzombie>Raynos: I think that gets back to single library/framework vs just some js that does something
01:07:39  <substack>Raynos: I
01:07:40  <defunctzombie>I think it is fine to suggest that if you have a "widget"
01:07:53  <substack>Raynos: I don't see how that is not composable
01:07:54  <defunctzombie>that you call the element .el or .view or whatever
01:08:13  <defunctzombie>.view is wrong in my opinion since that is more like an MVC topic, but whatever
01:08:21  <defunctzombie>that is just preference
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01:08:40  <substack>do the simplest thing that could possibly work and not leak out into the environment
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01:23:55  <Raynos>defunctzombie: it's not about single library/framework.
01:24:29  <Raynos>defunctzombie: .view is just .element, would it be better if I called it .element
01:25:53  <defunctzombie>Raynos: I just don't think it fits with the "insert" library if that is meant to just be DOM elements
01:26:07  <Raynos>its sugar
01:26:16  <defunctzombie>otherwise it is just like using jquery compatibility
01:26:16  <Raynos>I'm not going to write a seperate library
01:26:30  <Raynos>to add widget-insert support
01:26:33  <defunctzombie>If it works for you, then use it :)
01:26:44  <Raynos>defunctzombie: but insert works completely with DOM only. the .view hack is a bonus
01:26:44  <defunctzombie>I just won't define a "widget"
01:26:46  <defunctzombie>at least not yet
01:27:02  <Raynos>like addEventListener("event", callback) vs addEventListener("event", { handleEvent: callback })
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01:35:03  <dominictarr>substack: Ctrl-Shift-R hard reload with no cache
01:35:39  <dominictarr>also, if you use my reloader module, that reloads the page without the cache being used,
01:35:58  <dominictarr>except the cache still happens when you open a new tab
01:36:39  <defunctzombie>dominictarr: reloader module?
01:37:05  <dominictarr>https://github.com/dominictarr/client-reloader
01:37:26  <Raynos>defunctzombie: I use this to make it easy to writing higher level things using widgets ( https://gist.github.com/ab0e232d25d9e21515ad#file-gistfile1-js-L27 )
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01:37:44  <dominictarr>makes the client reload when it connects to a stream, with an old version of the code.
01:38:45  <dominictarr>Raynos: what does merge do?
01:39:03  <Raynos>dominictarr: it's like flatten
01:39:09  <Raynos>but in time
01:39:19  <Raynos>it mixes all the streams together in a single stream
01:39:23  <substack>heading out to give a talk at http://www.meetup.com/Node-js-Serverside-Javascripters-Club-SF/events/100353622/
01:39:38  <dominictarr>so, it's just piping many sources into one through stream
01:39:50  <Raynos>dominictarr: effectively yes
01:39:58  <dominictarr>you should call it flatten
01:40:18  <dominictarr>merge makes me think you are copying properties onto one object
01:40:24  <defunctzombie>Raynos: I don't follow that code, what is that supposed to show?
01:40:29  <Raynos>dominictarr: flatten is ambigious
01:40:33  <dominictarr>^
01:40:47  <dominictarr>so is "merge"
01:41:17  <Raynos>dominictarr: reducers has concat and merge, merge combines streams in arbitary order, concat combines streams one at a time. i.e. read from the next stream once the first one finished
01:41:46  <dominictarr>oh, right - so it's idiomatic in reducers
01:42:09  <dominictarr>it's just that reducers are weird
01:42:23  <dominictarr>Oh that reminds me: how do you disconnect reducers?
01:42:41  <dominictarr>or does that never happen? it sounds stateful...
01:42:46  <Raynos>defunctzombie: I can just call append, remove and after on widgets. This allows me to write higher order things now that i've decide what a widget does
01:43:07  <Raynos>dominictarr: you return `reduced(value)` as a signal to say "I am done reducing"
01:43:16  <Raynos>which effectively means go close yourself
01:43:27  <Raynos>Generally you just use takeWhile(source, terminationCondition)
01:43:50  <dominictarr>what is reduced() ? is it a special function?
01:43:59  <Raynos>dominictarr: notice that the reference reducers example is completely lazy. It's just a function that takes input and returns a lazy transformation as output. zero side-effects
01:44:06  <defunctzombie>Raynos: sure, that is basically a framework
01:44:10  <Raynos>dominictarr: https://github.com/Gozala/reducible/blob/master/reduced.js
01:44:12  <defunctzombie>which isn't a problem
01:44:22  <defunctzombie>it is just hard to get everyone to agree on a property
01:44:37  <dominictarr>Raynos: I want an explaination not a link to code to read
01:44:43  <Raynos>defunctzombie: it's not quite a framework.
01:44:49  <defunctzombie>right
01:44:57  <Raynos>dominictarr: it's a special function that boxes the value
01:45:01  <dominictarr>that is not a good way to promote your ideas -- too much hard work
01:45:06  <defunctzombie>but the basic idea is that if you have everything with a consistent api/pattern then you can write common things
01:45:11  <defunctzombie>I mean.. this is true
01:45:12  <dominictarr>yes, that is what you needed to say
01:45:18  <defunctzombie>but then why not just have jquery support
01:45:22  <defunctzombie>or something like that
01:45:23  <gozala>dominictarr: was explanation on readme not helpful ?
01:45:28  <Raynos>defunctzombie: jquery is different
01:45:28  <dominictarr>JQUERY RULZ
01:45:29  <LOUDBOT>I THING I HAVE A DEMO OF LFD1 OR SOMETHIGN AND I WASN'T TOO HAPPY PLAYING IT BUT I ONLY DID SO FOR LIKE 2 MINUTES
01:46:09  <gozala>dominictarr: oh sorry I missed a context
01:46:36  <gozala>dominictarr: reduced is just a way to box a value
01:46:39  <dominictarr>gozala: I didn't follow link. Raynos has a bad habit to not explain things, and i hassel him about it.
01:47:15  <gozala>and boxing is used to notify input that you're done
01:47:22  <gozala>and don't care about the rest of it
01:47:30  <dominictarr>gozala: got it
01:47:35  <gozala>way to interrupt / close input
01:47:50  <gozala>dominictarr: also you should not actually need it
01:47:57  <dominictarr>it's like destroy()
01:47:57  <gozala>it's internal implementation detail
01:48:04  <dominictarr>some times you do need that
01:48:11  <gozala>takeWhile or take should be used instead
01:48:13  <dominictarr>if you are using reducers like streams
01:48:30  <defunctzombie>Raynos: my point with the idea of npm-css/browserify/widgets is that there is no specific way you have to code it
01:48:32  <Raynos>isaacs; o/
01:48:38  <defunctzombie>beyond using commonjs style require
01:48:46  <defunctzombie>and providing a style file
01:48:49  <Raynos>defunctzombie: npm-css makes trade-offs as well
01:48:51  <defunctzombie>that I can or can not use
01:49:02  <gozala>dominictarr: if you have a case where takeWhile is not enough I'd like to know it
01:49:04  <defunctzombie>yes, it does
01:49:08  <isaacs>Raynos: pong
01:49:13  <gozala>so I can address with high level API
01:49:17  <Raynos>isaacs: 0.9.8 woot
01:49:18  * isaacscalls on Raynos
01:49:22  <isaacs>Raynos: INORITE!?
01:49:29  <isaacs>Raynos: sadly, it's about 5% slower than streams1
01:49:31  <Raynos>defunctzombie: to simplify the problem, consider this. A widget is a function that takes input, renders input to DOM, reads things out of DOM and returns that as output
01:49:36  <Raynos>isaass: :(
01:49:41  <isaacs>Raynos: but streams1 is about 12% slower than v0.8
01:49:44  <isaacs>so something is going on
01:49:49  <defunctzombie>Raynos: but the tradeoffs are about namespacing and protection versus a naming style
01:49:51  <dominictarr>gozala: what if there is a tcp connection, that you want to close when you decide, say, the connection was not authed, or used the wrong protocol
01:49:56  <Raynos>defunctzombie: so you have a function(input) -> output. Except there is that DOM thing, you either pass a node in or the function returns two nodes
01:50:14  <Raynos>returns two values*, the output and the node
01:50:33  <gozala>don't matter takeWhile should be able to handle that
01:51:00  <gozala>the point is takeWhile is transformation and stateless
01:51:06  <defunctzombie>Raynos: what if my widget operates on existing elements?
01:51:20  <Raynos>defunctzombie: then that's a silly widget :p
01:51:29  <gozala>if you start to depend on things that aren't passed in you'll end up with stateful code
01:51:30  <Raynos>It's not.
01:51:42  <Raynos>It should just rip those existing elements out of the DOM and return a reference to BLARGH
01:51:49  <Raynos>defunctzombie: your right it breaks :/
01:51:53  <Raynos>why is this so fucking hard
01:51:58  <gozala>so basically reducers encourage state machine like approach
01:52:03  <CoverSlide>that's what she said
01:52:33  <dominictarr>gozala: "takeWhile just handles that" is not a satisfactory answer
01:52:38  <defunctzombie>hahaha
01:53:11  <gozala>dominictarr: if you'll write up specific example I can reply with specific answer
01:53:16  <defunctzombie>Raynos: it is hard because there is this interaction with the "dom" that is already a set of "widgets"
01:53:33  <defunctzombie>that is why I don't make rules about what a widget is on the JS side
01:53:42  <defunctzombie>other than just some sharable code
01:53:45  <dominictarr>gozala: can I do that with streams, and then you show me how that would look with reducers?
01:53:56  <gozala>sure
01:54:00  <defunctzombie>Raynos: gotta bounce for a bit but will be back later
01:54:25  <dominictarr>okay, I'll put it in my mental checklist and do that next time I find my self in that situation
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01:55:46  <gozala>dominictarr: ok just open issues in reducers lib if you have any question
01:55:55  <dominictarr>gozala: cool
01:55:56  <gozala>I'll try to help out
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01:58:38  <Raynos>dominictarr: takeWhile is literally passthrough whilst iterator is true and close source once iterator is false ( https://gist.github.com/25bbda49a2bf6fbdbf5e )
01:59:04  <dominictarr>i get it
01:59:35  <Raynos>oh I see.
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02:39:29  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) colinwrenca@... successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
02:39:32  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
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06:38:53  <jesusabdullah>welcome to FRIDAY
06:38:57  <jesusabdullah>WELCOME TO FRIDAY
06:38:57  <LOUDBOT>SRRY GUANTANAMO WHILE WE SORT THIS OUT K
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06:41:50  <substack>jesusabdullah: what is it like living in the FUTURE
06:42:12  <substack>I will be visiting the future in 3 weeks
06:42:18  <substack>across the pacific time anomaly
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07:01:52  <jesusabdullah>substack: We have flying cars here
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08:03:31  <niftylettuce>elon musk was going to talk about flying cars in a recent tlak
08:03:37  <niftylettuce>talk* but interviewer kept cutting him off
08:03:41  <niftylettuce>:(....
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09:00:11  <gozala>Raynos: I have implemented some of the APIs you wanted
09:00:12  <gozala>https://github.com/Gozala/transducer
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09:48:09  <jesusabdullah>I just took nodejitsu's prompt module and, like, halved its dependency tree
09:48:15  <jesusabdullah>no more winston, pkginfo or utile
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17:05:20  <defunctzombie>gozala: trying to play around with node-interactive
17:05:32  <defunctzombie>how would I bring in additional requires or such?
17:06:40  <defunctzombie>or even for just the plain interactive
17:06:46  <gozala>defunctzombie: what do you mean, can you be more specific ?
17:07:02  <gozala>for interactivate I don't have answer yet
17:07:12  <defunctzombie>so I want to provide an environment where someone can play around with some widget code
17:07:17  <gozala>waiting substack to do browserify@2 and than it will be easy
17:07:31  <defunctzombie>gozala: any reason it needs browserify 2?
17:07:53  <defunctzombie>with node-interactive, can I see the startup file?
17:08:02  <gozala>as of node-interactivate it executes in node context
17:08:04  <defunctzombie>by default it is empty js
17:08:18  * ins0mniaquit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
17:08:35  <gozala>it's basically acts same as repl does when running node from that folder you've run interactivate
17:08:56  <gozala>so working with require and modules will be identical
17:09:01  <defunctzombie>hm
17:09:12  <gozala>so you can use relative require to that dir
17:09:26  <gozala>or absolute for modules in node_modules folder
17:09:31  <defunctzombie>ah ok
17:09:41  <gozala>if you want to install dependencies just npm install foo
17:09:42  <defunctzombie>I guess it fails because `document` is not defined
17:09:46  <gozala>and then require("foo")
17:09:47  <defunctzombie>I have some gui things
17:09:55  <gozala>?
17:10:00  <gozala>did you modify anything ?
17:10:11  <defunctzombie>nope
17:10:20  <defunctzombie>just tried document.body
17:10:25  <defunctzombie>and it sayd document is not defined
17:10:27  <gozala>it seemed to work for everyone who tried so far
17:10:43  <gozala>oh you mean you tried executing document.body ?
17:10:47  <defunctzombie>yea
17:10:53  <defunctzombie>or writing to document body or something
17:10:57  <gozala>oh sure because it runs code in node
17:10:59  <defunctzombie>yea
17:10:59  <gozala>not in browser
17:11:02  <defunctzombie>I follow you there
17:11:19  <defunctzombie>my question is if I can sorta merge the two or something
17:11:44  <gozala>so with browserify-2 I'll be able to bundle up required modules such
17:12:02  <gozala>that it I'll be able to hook into already existing require
17:12:21  <gozala>that way inter activate will be able to bundle modules on the fly
17:12:26  <gozala>and then use them
17:12:31  <defunctzombie>gozala: you can alreayd bundle on the fly
17:13:04  <gozala>yeah but it will create diff require that will conflict with one already used
17:13:12  <defunctzombie>gozala: I would like to poke around at doing that... do you think it is very complex or can you point me to where in the code it kinda happens?
17:13:34  <gozala>defunctzombie: sure
17:13:42  <gozala>I think it should be simple enough
17:14:01  <gozala>interactivate side at least
17:14:14  <defunctzombie>k
17:14:19  <gozala>so if you look at https://github.com/Gozala/node-interactivate/blob/master/host.js
17:14:45  <gozala>that's where everything happens
17:15:06  <gozala>when there is new code to eval
17:15:14  <gozala>you'll get a server event
17:15:28  <gozala>that's supposed to eval code where it needs to
17:15:51  <gozala>and then dispatch client event with a results
17:16:13  <gozala>does it makes sense so far ?
17:16:27  <defunctzombie>sorta
17:16:28  <gozala>defunctzombie: ?
17:16:37  <defunctzombie>is this run on the server?
17:16:52  <defunctzombie>or am I looking at the client side stuff
17:16:53  <gozala>yeah in case of node-interactivate it's here
17:16:53  <gozala>https://github.com/Gozala/node-interactivate/blob/master/server.js
17:17:47  <defunctzombie>packet.source is the entire source code?
17:19:04  <gozala>defunctzombie: no it's source for the section that changed and needs evaluation
17:19:29  <gozala>when you change code only changed sections are evaded not the whole file
17:19:38  <gozala>so you can keep a state
17:19:52  <defunctzombie>what defines a changed section?
17:19:57  <defunctzombie>anything with no output?
17:20:02  <gozala>defunctzombie: in case of browser interactivate
17:20:09  <gozala>server is actually in the browser itself
17:20:09  <gozala>https://github.com/Gozala/interactivate/blob/gh-pages/server.js
17:20:15  <gozala>so just eval is used
17:20:30  <defunctzombie>I see, I am playing with just browser interactive right now
17:20:33  <gozala>sections are code blocks between outputs
17:20:38  <defunctzombie>gotcha
17:21:00  <gozala>basically code before // =>
17:21:10  <gozala>or between two // =>
17:21:33  <defunctzombie>so how come in the default browser interactive
17:21:40  <defunctzombie>I don't see output for fib(10)
17:21:43  <defunctzombie>but I do for fib(8)
17:21:46  <gozala>if you place a cursor into output after short delay it will actually display source
17:21:50  <gozala>with is // =>
17:22:02  <gozala>read the comment :)
17:22:06  <defunctzombie>oh I got it :)
17:22:10  <defunctzombie>cursor over didn't seem to work
17:22:15  <defunctzombie>but I just played around with it
17:22:15  <gozala>before it
17:22:16  <defunctzombie>and I see now
17:22:41  <defunctzombie>can I remove output?
17:22:54  <defunctzombie>oh ok I can
17:22:54  <defunctzombie>haha
17:22:57  <gozala>defunctzombie: or you can see a video in the end it explains and shows all the details
17:23:02  <defunctzombie>just had to do cursor after it
17:23:06  <gozala>yes it's just a text
17:23:14  <defunctzombie>pretty cool
17:23:16  <gozala>no you don't need that
17:23:29  <defunctzombie>I mean I had to click after it and backspace
17:23:31  <gozala>you can just press backspaces and it will delete output section
17:23:54  <gozala>I just navigate with keyboard and delete sections
17:23:57  <defunctzombie>so what I want to do (going on the whole web widget thing) is make a widget viewing service
17:24:00  <gozala>without touching a mouse
17:24:04  <defunctzombie>where you can enter a github url
17:24:11  <defunctzombie>into an input
17:24:14  <defunctzombie>it will clone the repo
17:24:19  <defunctzombie>and open this to play with the widget
17:24:24  <defunctzombie>and the dev can seed the initial js
17:24:33  <gozala>defunctzombie: yeah I wanted this for similar stuff
17:24:41  <gozala>which is for embedding docs
17:24:46  <gozala>that people can interact with
17:24:50  <defunctzombie>yea
17:25:15  <gozala>so doing for per project bases it's not hard
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17:25:37  <gozala>you can include inter activate and index.js for package in the browserify bundle
17:25:44  <gozala>than all the requires will be available
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17:25:54  <gozala>for example if you try require("method")
17:25:58  <gozala>here http://jeditoolkit.com/interactivate/#
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17:26:22  <gozala>defunctzombie: actually this http://jeditoolkit.com/interactivate/#require%28%22method%22%29%0A%0A%2F%2F%20%3D%3E
17:26:35  <gozala>it works because it's bundled up
17:27:02  <gozala>but ideally you won't have to bundle all this upfront
17:27:04  <defunctzombie>interesting
17:27:14  <gozala>I was thinking about sort of browserify service
17:27:19  <defunctzombie>right, that is the part where auto bundling comes in
17:27:44  <gozala>so you could send it a set of modules and get back script injecting which
17:27:52  <gozala>will make those modules available
17:28:02  <defunctzombie>gozala: totally works and is awesome :)
17:28:07  <defunctzombie>yea
17:28:14  <defunctzombie>right now I just am playing with interactive main.js
17:28:21  <defunctzombie>and added the module I want to test manually
17:28:32  <gozala>but yeah currently browserify will bundle built-ins and will use own require etc...
17:28:36  <defunctzombie>does it cache my cahnges or something?
17:28:42  <gozala>I believe with v2 it will be a lot easier
17:28:47  <gozala>so I decided to wait
17:29:08  <gozala>defunctzombie: well it actually encodes into url
17:29:12  <defunctzombie>ah ok
17:29:14  <gozala>so you can share it too :)
17:29:17  <defunctzombie>wow
17:29:28  <defunctzombie>I bow before your awesomeness
17:29:36  <gozala>but yeah node inter activate caches in local storage
17:29:40  <gozala>on url bases
17:29:55  <gozala>so that if you come back you'll continue where you left off
17:30:06  <defunctzombie>yea, I saw that
17:30:11  <gozala>that's btw why node-interactivate suggests urls with project names in it
17:30:17  <defunctzombie>right now interactive is more suited for what I am looking for
17:30:24  <defunctzombie>cause it allows for document changes
17:30:45  <defunctzombie>just need to seed it with my own js file
17:30:46  <gozala>defunctzombie: so basically if you want to try to hack require for it
17:30:57  <defunctzombie>I may not have to hack that much actually
17:31:02  <gozala>you'll probably end up writing another server https://github.com/Gozala/interactivate/blob/gh-pages/server.js
17:31:06  <defunctzombie>so interactive just makes a static main.js
17:31:07  <defunctzombie>yea
17:31:17  <defunctzombie>so I just need something that will server index.js
17:31:20  <gozala>which will somehow get the requirements and then execute it
17:31:28  <defunctzombie>er index.html
17:31:36  <defunctzombie>and any js you want added through a bundler
17:31:57  <defunctzombie>the question is how to allow the widget author to specify some js they want bootstrapped in
17:32:11  <defunctzombie>or some html even
17:32:23  <gozala>yeah I don't know yet
17:32:33  <gozala>I have not figured embedding part to be honest
17:32:46  <gozala>I was mainly thinking in terms of rest service
17:32:47  <defunctzombie>you have figured out quite a bit tho :)
17:33:06  <gozala>that static inter activate can use to get require bundles
17:33:08  <gozala>on the fly
17:33:25  <gozala>defunctzombie: thanks for compliments :)
17:33:35  <defunctzombie>it looks for template/javascript I take it?
17:33:57  <defunctzombie>does that work if template/javascript is loaded from the server?
17:34:01  <defunctzombie>I guess one way to find out
17:34:03  <gozala>defunctzombie: there are other things that also need some ideas
17:34:22  <gozala>like console.log in node does prints in a terminal
17:34:34  <gozala>ideally that will be somewhere in the view
17:35:09  <gozala>defunctzombie: not sure I follow in regards to template/javascript
17:35:20  <defunctzombie>in index.html for "interactive"
17:35:25  <defunctzombie>the type is template/javascript
17:35:36  <defunctzombie>if I do <script src="foo.js" type="template/javascript">
17:35:40  <defunctzombie>wonder if it still works
17:35:44  <gozala>oh
17:35:52  <gozala>yeah
17:36:13  <gozala>I think I just do stupid thing
17:36:13  <gozala>https://github.com/Gozala/interactivate/blob/gh-pages/main.js#L9
17:36:35  <defunctzombie>that migth work, I will try it haha
17:36:39  <gozala>so that module actually shows how to embed it
17:37:23  <defunctzombie>yea, that is awesome
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17:39:33  <gozala>defunctzombie: so if you wanna basically use it on your page
17:39:47  <gozala>easiest thing now is to have main js that is similar to this
17:39:48  <gozala>https://github.com/Gozala/interactivate/blob/gh-pages/main.js#L9
17:40:12  <gozala>and if you also require your modules there
17:40:20  <defunctzombie>k
17:40:27  <gozala>browserify will bundle them so they'll be available too
17:40:34  <defunctzombie>right, that is what I did at first
17:40:38  <defunctzombie>now trying some variations
17:40:50  <gozala>codemirror is little painful though
17:40:51  <defunctzombie>also, does it local storage cache the js on the page or something?
17:40:56  <gozala>because it's not really a module
17:41:16  <gozala>defunctzombie: this enables that https://github.com/Gozala/interactivate/blob/gh-pages/main.js#L29
17:41:21  <defunctzombie>I removed all the fib stuff an collapsed to just use src="" but it still seems to have the old code hang around
17:41:30  <gozala>this enables url encoding
17:41:30  <gozala>https://github.com/Gozala/interactivate/blob/gh-pages/main.js#L31
17:41:33  <defunctzombie>noted
17:41:42  <gozala>oh ...
17:41:52  <gozala>https://github.com/Gozala/interactivate/blob/gh-pages/index.html#L2
17:42:07  <gozala>defunctzombie: it uses offline storage with manifest
17:42:15  <defunctzombie>ah.. fascinating
17:42:22  <gozala>so if you make changes and don't update manifest it won't pick them up
17:42:51  <defunctzombie>gonna just remove that for now :)
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17:44:51  <defunctzombie>hm, removed and still it fights me
17:44:52  <defunctzombie>haha
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17:58:34  <defunctzombie>gozala: do set timeouts not work?
17:58:44  <defunctzombie>I guess they wouldn't cause it is eval'ed?
17:59:14  <defunctzombie>that seems unfortunate
18:07:08  <niftylettuce>crockPot.make('chicken-tortilla-soup') // boom
18:07:25  <niftylettuce>im not advertising http://startupsupper.com or anything
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19:14:41  <isaacs>st_luke: for realsies?
19:14:47  <isaacs>st_luke: i was gonna take a look at that today!
19:14:59  <st_luke>isaacs: for reals, haha
19:15:16  <isaacs>st_luke: i think there's a couchLogin client (or maybe even an npm-registry-client?) for the currently logged in user.
19:15:17  <st_luke>I was thinking about it earlier and then I was like that should exist, but I'm not going to say "that should exist" im just gonna do it
19:15:24  <isaacs>st_luke: yeah! rock on!
19:15:54  <st_luke>yeah, I had some questions about where to get the stars but I figured I'd poke around first and try to find it all myself
19:16:32  <fotoverite>it's on the package itself I believe
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19:20:12  <st_luke>isaacs: I was also thinking it would be cool to have a 'recently starred' list so you can see what people are interested in at the moment
19:23:07  <isaacs>st_luke: yes.
19:27:09  <defunctzombie>gozala: ping
19:29:57  <mbalho>substack: my friend said he gave you some pull reqs to bouncy
19:31:56  <defunctzombie>gozala: Raynos: http://view.localtunnel.me/ and https://github.com/shtylman/spin.js/tree/master/example
19:32:17  <defunctzombie>basically, you write your js in example/index.js however you want to show off your widget
19:32:24  <defunctzombie>and follow the // => convention to have output
19:32:43  <defunctzombie>the viewer takes care of all the rest with bootstrapping your code into a usable environment
19:32:50  <defunctzombie>and it happens automatically
19:33:08  <defunctzombie>also supports npm-css if your example has style to include
19:35:51  <gozala>defunctzombie: sorry little busy now
19:36:01  <gozala>timeouts do work but there are some bugs
19:36:13  <gozala>on node version
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20:13:58  <fotoverite>isaacs: bring on the no!
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20:51:47  <defunctzombie>substack: is there a way to educate browserify about module paths?
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21:12:48  <Raynos>defunctzombie: I've seen tunnel before
21:12:56  <Raynos>oh wait
21:13:07  <defunctzombie>Raynos: one sec, this isn't tunnel :p
21:13:12  <Raynos>defunctzombie: Your running a demo through a tunnel
21:13:13  <Raynos>cool
21:13:14  <defunctzombie>I will show you
21:13:15  <defunctzombie>yea
21:14:18  <Raynos>What do you use for the viewing server?
21:14:28  <defunctzombie>something I am writing
21:14:38  <defunctzombie>that uses interactive browserify npm-css etc
21:15:05  <defunctzombie>Raynos: http://view.localtunnel.me/
21:15:07  <defunctzombie>try that
21:15:24  <defunctzombie>https://github.com/shtylman/typeahead/tree/master/example
21:15:29  <defunctzombie>that is this example code running
21:16:20  <Raynos>defunctzombie: what black magic did you do for partial browserify updates?
21:17:35  <defunctzombie>there are no partial updates
21:17:43  <defunctzombie>or I don't understand your question
21:17:55  <Raynos>defunctzombie: Uncaught ReferenceError: con is not defined
21:18:02  <defunctzombie>con?
21:18:04  <Raynos>defunctzombie: how did you make require work
21:18:09  <defunctzombie>;)
21:18:18  <defunctzombie>ah yes
21:18:21  <defunctzombie>that is the magic
21:18:31  <Raynos>https://gist.github.com/9a3b0e8fc6443b5f4a29
21:18:32  <defunctzombie>it was easy once I found the trick
21:19:34  <defunctzombie>what I do is make a bundle with main.js from the interactive source tree
21:19:52  <defunctzombie>then I append the bundle for your example's index.js to that
21:20:05  <defunctzombie>and this whole bundle is included in the page
21:20:10  <defunctzombie>as main.js
21:20:21  <defunctzombie>then main.js does an ajax request to get the index.js
21:20:31  <defunctzombie>and puts that in the editor
21:20:36  <defunctzombie>this index.js is not bundled
21:20:53  <defunctzombie>it is just the js as it is in that file
21:21:01  <defunctzombie>but because it will be evaled in the scope of the main.js file
21:21:12  <defunctzombie>(which has all the requires we would have used in index.js) it all works
21:21:17  <defunctzombie>during evaluation time
21:21:34  <defunctzombie>once you see the code it will be clearer, it is quite simple
21:23:18  <defunctzombie>I have this demo stuff working for typeahead, spin.js, and for ios-overlay widgets
21:23:32  <defunctzombie>it is actually quite awesome cause I can easily see how the widgets work and break
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21:28:30  <Raynos>Ok this is cool
21:29:01  <Raynos>this is how you should reproduce something :p
21:29:09  <Raynos>bug reports should be links like that
21:29:29  <defunctzombie>oh man.. that would be pretty cool
21:29:30  <CoverSlide>https://jepso-ci.com/
21:30:12  <defunctzombie>who runs that?
21:30:45  <CoverSlide>dunno
21:30:50  <CoverSlide>just saw it
21:30:57  <CoverSlide>i like that they have mobile browsers though
21:30:59  <defunctzombie>there is absolutely no info beyond how to run tests
21:31:02  <defunctzombie>yea
21:31:10  <defunctzombie>some friends were asking me about mobile browsers
21:32:31  <CoverSlide>the output image is terrible though
21:33:15  <defunctzombie>haha
21:34:04  <defunctzombie>Raynos: right now the only action I have to do when starting the viewer is making a node_modules with a symlink back to the root folder
21:34:08  <defunctzombie>in the example folder
21:34:13  <defunctzombie>but that will go away
21:34:20  <defunctzombie>once I can educate browserify about lookup paths
21:34:24  <defunctzombie>and same with npm-css
21:34:56  <defunctzombie>I like this approach cause it makes the examples more copy/pastable
21:35:00  <ricardobeat>CoverSlide: that's interesting. this is the guy https://github.com/ForbesLindesay
21:35:03  <defunctzombie>versus require('../')
21:35:09  <ricardobeat>stalker level: 31
21:38:55  <defunctzombie>Raynos: the goal is to also have a simple web service where you can just go to something like weidgetview.com/shtylman/typeahead/example
21:38:58  <defunctzombie>and it will git clone the repo
21:39:04  <defunctzombie>and show you the example to play with
21:39:07  <defunctzombie>I think that is all doable
21:39:09  <Raynos>defunctzombie: yes!
21:40:01  <defunctzombie>cause everyone keeps writing these example pages and other stuff when really code examples are way cooler
21:40:04  <defunctzombie>and more useful
21:40:15  <defunctzombie>certainly for simple widgets
21:52:39  <Raynos>defunctzombie: I want to use it locally
21:52:47  <defunctzombie>:)
21:52:50  <defunctzombie>working on it
21:52:58  <defunctzombie>got another demo coming up soon
21:53:05  <defunctzombie>to show you multiproject stuff
21:53:22  <Raynos>But I want it now
21:53:23  <Raynos>right now
21:55:47  <defunctzombie>you have to control yourself
21:59:45  <defunctzombie>Raynos: http://view.localtunnel.me/typeahead/example/ http://view.localtunnel.me/spin.js/example/ http://view.localtunnel.me/iOS-Overlay/example/
21:59:52  <defunctzombie>shows one server with multi project
22:00:13  <defunctzombie>ok.. let me clean this up and push to github so you can try it locally
22:03:20  * alunnyquit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
22:09:36  <substack>ls
22:09:38  <substack>wups
22:10:24  <defunctzombie>no such file or directory
22:17:19  <defunctzombie>Raynos: https://github.com/shtylman/interactivate
22:17:28  <defunctzombie>ignore the instructions on the readme, just npm install
22:17:38  <defunctzombie>then run "node view /path/to/example/folder"
22:17:41  <defunctzombie>and open localhost:8080
22:18:03  <Raynos>view?
22:18:08  <defunctzombie>view.js
22:18:11  <Raynos>oh node view.js cool
22:21:25  <defunctzombie>Raynos: you should be able to point it at an example, but will need to create that node_modules symlink first
22:21:44  <defunctzombie>if you want to require your project by name in your example
22:21:55  <defunctzombie>which I recommend, but it should work with relative require as well
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22:27:33  <Raynos>defunctzombie: you can npm link for that :p
22:29:08  <defunctzombie>yea, just have to figure out a way to do it automatically
22:29:21  <defunctzombie>it can be done pretty easily, just have to pass the project path to resolve module
22:29:32  <defunctzombie>but that is nested within browserify and npm-css
22:29:46  <defunctzombie>might be easier to just make the symlink automatically for the user
22:29:54  <defunctzombie>but I would like to not do that if possible
22:34:07  <defunctzombie>Raynos: the only major downside I have found is that you can't have html files cause the dynamic code is all js
22:34:10  <ricardobeat>defunctzombie: Raynos: I like bl.ocks.org
22:34:13  <defunctzombie>so you have to build widgets automatically and such
22:34:22  <Raynos>defunctzombie: why not
22:34:55  <Raynos>oh I see
22:34:58  <Raynos>yeah of course no html files
22:35:04  <Raynos>just embed your fucking templates in js
22:35:08  <defunctzombie>haha
22:35:24  <defunctzombie>for the widgets yea
22:35:28  <defunctzombie>just thinking about examples
22:35:33  <ricardobeat>make bl.ocks.org and jsapp.us have babies
22:35:35  <defunctzombie>if you have a table you want to demo or something
22:37:05  <defunctzombie>ricardobeat: those are pretty cool
22:37:12  <defunctzombie>I would want something "require" enabled tho
22:37:22  <defunctzombie>basically, I don't do <script> ... </script> javascript anymore :)
22:37:34  <defunctzombie>If I can't require it.. I am not happy
22:38:18  <defunctzombie>jsapp.us is pretty nifty too..but isn't interactive which is important for widgets
22:38:24  <defunctzombie>this tool is meant to be fully interactive
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22:55:45  <defunctzombie>Raynos: idea - parse /** */ comments as github markdown so you can make nice guides too
22:56:22  <Raynos>oh hi
22:56:35  <Raynos>defunctzombie: https://github.com/Raynos/examplifier
22:56:50  <Raynos>I agree
22:56:52  <Raynos>that's a good idea
22:57:36  <Raynos>defunctzombie: the hard part is ripping the comments out of the rendered source code
22:57:46  <defunctzombie>not that hard actually
22:57:53  <defunctzombie>if you assume it has to start with /**
22:57:55  <defunctzombie>and end with */
22:58:17  <defunctzombie>it is just a simple state machine, might even be a regex.replace actually
22:59:16  <defunctzombie>does examplifier do the live code stuff?
23:00:07  <defunctzombie>Raynos: just need to figure out the injection of stuff with codemirror
23:00:29  <defunctzombie>I think that would make it super fucking awesome
23:00:37  <Raynos>examplifier allows you to double click and edit
23:00:53  <Raynos>it also matches comments to values and prints the value as red or green
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23:22:27  <defunctzombie>Raynos: I got it partially working to render markup, but it will need some work to make it behave with the editor correctly
23:22:36  <defunctzombie>I think it will be a nice touch
23:22:42  <defunctzombie>otherwise I am pretty happywith the result
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