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00:13:43  <yorick>pkrumins: I'm in university since this year! but I don't like it :( all they're teaching is java crap :( also mathematics, but I can do those myself, but better/harder/faster/stronger. I want to drop out, but non-computer-savvy folk say that it's a bad idea and I won't get anywhere without a degree. What do you think?
00:14:42  <yorick>oh, I'm reading your blog, and it seems you were smarted than me and just studied physics instead
00:14:51  <yorick>smarter*
00:20:54  <substack>yorick: you don't need a degree to do crazy experiments
00:21:18  <yorick>substack: very much true. but will crazy experiment get me any living?
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00:48:09  <fotoverite>substack: you just need tart on speedial.
00:48:12  <fotoverite>tarr
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01:17:38  <fotoverite>substack: what do you use to invoice if anything?
01:39:37  <substack>a latex file
01:39:51  <substack>was planning on publishing that to npm along with a command-line wizard
01:40:10  <fotoverite>thinking of making an online service all the ones out there are overpriced and kinda suck with their complexitiy
02:49:22  <substack>http://substack.net/images/browserify.png
02:49:28  <substack>http://substack.net/images/browserify.svg
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05:27:22  <Raynos>Oh hi stackvmers
05:28:08  <substack>hi ho
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05:43:12  <Raynos>im going to try to hustle hustlers
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05:45:04  * substackworking on the browserify.org website
05:45:13  <substack>http://browserling.com:9009/
05:45:17  <substack>needs more wizard hats
05:45:20  <substack>and fireballs
05:45:33  <substack>defunctzombie_zz: ^^^
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05:54:36  <Raynos>Nice!
05:54:39  <Raynos>Wizard logo
05:54:42  <Raynos>wizards everywhere.
05:54:52  <Raynos>require("wizards").zap(jQuery)
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06:13:14  <defunctzombie>substack: I think the logo should be more concise
06:13:56  <defunctzombie>also, visually the text on the hat is hard to read (but you are probably still working on general styling)
06:16:10  <defunctzombie>I would go for something clean and simple.. something that says more like "this is the future, the way it should be" versus "this is magic"
06:18:12  <fotoverite>I'm confused the browserify logo is easy to read
06:18:14  <fotoverite>what hat?
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06:21:34  <substack>defunctzombie: I'm more trying to convey that browserify is fun
06:21:48  <defunctzombie>hm
06:22:01  <substack>and that mastering modules is deep powerful magic
06:22:06  <defunctzombie>I don't know how I feel about the whole wizard/quest motif
06:22:11  <substack>once you've been trained up enough of course
06:22:21  <defunctzombie>of course
06:22:30  <defunctzombie>you have to first learn the secret incantation
06:22:31  <fotoverite>i like it. We have enough futuristic motifs.
06:22:37  <fotoverite>It's different but still has meaning
06:24:05  <substack>refresh http://browserling.com:9009/
06:24:13  <substack>hat is more readable
06:24:44  <fotoverite>ah, the text doesn't mess well with the hat yet
06:25:08  <defunctzombie>typically not great ui to put text on background elements like that
06:25:12  <fotoverite>I like where it's going though
06:25:16  <defunctzombie>but yes, it is easier to read
06:26:41  <Raynos>whathat?
06:26:57  <Raynos>oh a hat!
06:27:04  <defunctzombie>maybe I am more of a helvetica person hahaha
06:27:05  <Raynos>HATS
06:27:08  <Raynos>COLLECT ALL THE HATS
06:27:28  <defunctzombie>prefer modern design elements
06:27:56  <defunctzombie>modern being the style, not referring to "current"
06:41:01  <defunctzombie>substack: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9lasie4zfrlfiy1/IMG_20121226_013552.jpg
06:41:25  <defunctzombie>random thoughts
06:41:38  <defunctzombie>some on the wizard motif, some not
06:41:50  <defunctzombie>the box is full of file looking things with the letts "js"
06:42:23  <substack>the js wand idea is neat
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07:01:43  <defunctzombie>I would get away from the game quest like feel/look and go for a more.. here is the shit you need to know, here are the awesome things you can do, and here is how simple it is
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09:29:23  <substack>http://browserling.com:9009/
09:36:08  <substack>now integrating the articles logic
10:07:21  <jesusabdullah>looks nice
10:08:57  <substack>thanks
10:09:28  <substack>what's really sweet is once I get the articles rendering then I can just git push markdown files at it to publish!
10:09:40  <jesusabdullah>word
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12:42:25  <substack>http://browserling.com:9009/robots_are_pretty_great
12:42:43  <substack>http://browserling.com:9009/articles
12:43:03  <substack>next step is implementing pushstate to skip the page reload
12:46:06  <substack>15 lines of server code, 172 lines of browser code
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12:55:24  <yorick>you guys should offer mobile browser emulation!
12:55:47  <yorick>I've also heard testing is a big problem for mobile apps developers, so maybe you guys should offer real android phones, too :P
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15:25:29  <niftylettuce>isaacs: what's NPM policy for outdated packages that the owner won't give name up for?
15:25:47  <niftylettuce>isaacs: e.g. a year old repo and package that doesn't work by default
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16:37:20  <isaacs>niftylettuce: The same as the policy for name ownership changes for any other random reason.
16:37:31  <isaacs>niftylettuce: ie, email the owner, cc i@izs.me
16:37:47  <isaacs>niftylettuce: https://npmjs.org/doc/disputes.html
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16:50:45  <defunctzombie>isaacs: did you see my question in the main nodejs room yesterday?
16:52:37  <isaacs>defunctzombie: no, i haven't scrolled back. i just saw that i was mentioned
16:52:49  <isaacs>defunctzombie: oh, that
16:53:01  <isaacs>defunctzombie: no, the # on a github repo specifies the commit-ish
16:53:08  <isaacs>just landed a patch to make it work, from nathan7
16:53:30  <isaacs>defunctzombie: it's not clear how i'd be able to fetch based on a version from git
16:53:43  <isaacs>defunctzombie: you can fetch based on a tag/commit-hash/branch/etc, though
16:53:54  <defunctzombie>could you get a list of the tags?
16:54:00  <defunctzombie>it would still need to be tagged
16:54:26  <defunctzombie>anyhow... it wasn't something critical, just an idea
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16:54:47  <defunctzombie>since if a person does want to allow patch level variance and use the git style repo location that currently can't be done
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17:02:02  <isaacs>Raynos: require() will never ever be a synonym for fs.readFileSync
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17:02:37  <defunctzombie>substack: how's the design coming along?
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17:07:25  <isaacs>defunctzombie: it works in git repos. #commit-ish
17:07:43  <isaacs>defunctzombie: you need to know how the author branches and tags, of course
17:11:57  <defunctzombie>isaacs: yea
17:12:06  <defunctzombie>ive been using #commit-ish for a long time
17:12:08  <defunctzombie>:)
17:12:13  <defunctzombie>I try to tell people about it
17:15:44  <defunctzombie>there should be a simple primer on the package.json basics
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17:39:52  <isaacs>defunctzombie: you should write one
17:39:59  <isaacs>defunctzombie: there's `npm help json`
17:40:06  <isaacs>which is a pretty good primer
17:40:07  <defunctzombie>working on a basic post about it :)
17:40:26  <defunctzombie>mostly focusing on the dependencies field with git stuff (as I find not many people know about it)
17:40:51  <defunctzombie>after that, I might write up a more complete doc
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18:01:02  <defunctzombie>isaacs: do you remember what npm/node version introduced the ownder/repo shorthand for github?
18:01:55  <isaacs>defunctzombie: hm... not sure offhand
18:02:13  <defunctzombie>ill just ballpart 8.14, it was around there :)
18:02:22  <defunctzombie>maybe earlier
18:02:29  <isaacs>defunctzombie: 1.1.64
18:02:43  <isaacs>defunctzombie: it was added with commit bfcd368
18:02:50  <isaacs>* bfcd368 isaacs Support username/project as a shorthand for github urls (3 months ago)
18:03:17  <defunctzombie>so yea
18:03:22  <defunctzombie>it landed in 8.13/8.14 node
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18:10:17  <st_luke>is there any reason the all docs page has certain types in braces, but then the same type isn't a few lines down?
18:10:18  <st_luke>http://nodejs.org/docs/latest/api/all.html
18:10:32  <st_luke>process & console are listed as {Object}
18:10:42  <st_luke>but then require.cache is just Object, no braces
18:11:06  <defunctzombie>isaacs: ^
18:11:57  <st_luke>if it's unintentional than even better
18:12:01  <isaacs>st_luke: it's unintentional
18:12:04  <isaacs>st_luke: send a patch, please :)
18:12:12  <isaacs>st_luke: all.html is generated from all the markdowns
18:12:22  <st_luke>isaacs: cool, I have a PR I'll submit for something right now then
18:12:29  <st_luke>not really that specifically, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't messing with it
18:12:45  <defunctzombie>isaacs: st_luke's pull request will be awesome :)
18:12:54  <st_luke>I ended up taking over https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/3898
18:13:06  <st_luke>adding the class at generation time
18:14:07  <isaacs>st_luke: probably also need to update marked
18:14:53  <st_luke>isaacs: that's the first approach I took but then I realized the highlighting option the later version of marked offers wasn't necessary
18:15:05  <st_luke>but can update it, when I tested it, it didn't break anything
18:15:22  <st_luke>defunctzombie: http://hsbb.localtunnel.me/documentation.html
18:15:55  <defunctzombie>st_luke: can the description text go in the boxes?
18:16:57  <defunctzombie>Stability: 0 - deprecated - this feature is known ... etc
18:17:06  <defunctzombie>or something along those lines
18:17:41  <defunctzombie>can it go below the main text? in the box? dunno if you have that kind of control
18:17:52  <defunctzombie>but if it could and was like subtext that could look nice
18:29:53  <st_luke>defunctzombie: would need something to separate the code blocks since they're all done with the indented style
18:29:57  <st_luke>for example https://gist.github.com/4382049
18:30:27  <defunctzombie>does adding another newline between them work?
18:30:30  <st_luke>defunctzombie: no
18:30:40  <st_luke>defunctzombie: you can add a character on the new line
18:30:44  <defunctzombie>that is retarded
18:37:57  <st_luke>defunctzombie: yeah, that's just how markdown handles it though, makes sense for multi line indented blocks. http://sxbb.localtunnel.me/documentation.html
18:38:09  <st_luke>best way to do it for something like that would probably be with the ``` code syntax
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18:40:09  <defunctzombie>st_luke: what do you think?
18:40:14  <defunctzombie>which do you find better?
18:40:28  <st_luke>as far as the markdown or the output?
18:40:47  <defunctzombie>the output
18:40:49  <st_luke>ah
18:40:58  <st_luke>this one I think
18:41:10  <defunctzombie>(also, why is your subdomain changing) is it not picking up restarts properly?
18:41:36  <st_luke>not sure, I was just killing it and starting it again instead of running it in the background
18:41:56  <defunctzombie>gotcha
18:43:30  <st_luke>my interest in trying something new out goes way down when I can't install it via npm
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20:12:32  <substack>defunctzombie: http://browserling.com:9009/
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20:13:02  <ik>man
20:13:15  <fotoverite>I think the background should be darker substack
20:13:19  <ik>if only we had known all hip internet web pages would have six foot margins
20:13:24  <ik>nobody would've had to upgrade to wide screen
20:13:25  <fotoverite>everything is a little bit too much in the same hue
20:13:37  <defunctzombie>substack: isn't it commonjs style requires?
20:13:40  <ik>fotoverite substack hates semi-blind people
20:13:42  <ik>he told me once
20:13:47  <fotoverite>LoL
20:13:49  <ik>he says to me he said
20:13:53  <ik>"man i do not like those people"
20:13:53  <fotoverite>I hate semi blind people also.
20:13:56  <fotoverite>Damn posers
20:14:04  <fotoverite>You should either have 20 20 or blind
20:14:10  <fotoverite>NO INBETWEENS
20:14:11  <substack>defunctzombie: commonj-esque
20:14:15  <ik>that is what i am saying fotoverite
20:14:23  <ik>lasik that shit and if you can't lasix it, just turn up the laser
20:14:27  <ik>go one way or the other
20:14:35  <fotoverite>and especially those people who are color blind… the worst.
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21:01:45  <st_luke>site looks good
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21:46:06  <defunctzombie>isaacs: http://shtylman.com/post/npm-git-with-the-program/
21:46:09  <defunctzombie>feedback appreciated
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21:47:34  <ik>do we really need more internet blog articles
21:47:42  <ik>i feel like all of the things have been written about
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21:48:22  <defunctzombie>ik: lets rewrite ALL the things!
21:48:35  <ik>cut it out
21:48:36  <ik>jeez
21:49:17  <guybrush>defunctzombie: the one thing which i have to give tj with his component over npm-with-git, you just cant make a module with the name you like
21:49:28  <guybrush>which is the last point in your "use cases ans wrap-up"
21:49:41  <defunctzombie>?
21:49:55  <defunctzombie>you can if you want
21:49:59  <defunctzombie>I don't see why not
21:50:03  <guybrush>if you use your module from git and its name is already on npm you will have trouble
21:50:11  <defunctzombie>why?
21:50:17  <defunctzombie>why will you have trouble?
21:50:18  <guybrush>that is if you use that module anywhere
21:50:47  <defunctzombie>I've done it a few times, no touble
21:50:47  <guybrush>say you have a git-module named "a" and anywhere else in your dependencies you use "a" from npm
21:51:05  <defunctzombie>that works ;)
21:51:13  <defunctzombie>modules are local
21:51:17  <guybrush>well
21:51:34  <guybrush>npm compress or what is it called
21:51:43  <guybrush>flatten
21:51:49  <guybrush>or something i cant remember right now
21:51:59  <guybrush>you will get in trouble there i think, at least its just not clean
21:52:34  <defunctzombie>nope, cause the versions will sitll be different
21:52:35  <defunctzombie>in either case
21:52:41  <defunctzombie>npm flatten or compress is useless
21:53:03  <defunctzombie>a few more kb of disk space
21:53:07  <defunctzombie>per module at most
21:53:10  <defunctzombie>who cares ;)
21:53:37  <defunctzombie>guybrush: I still think people should have unique names
21:53:46  <defunctzombie>but I figured I would point it out that you don't have to
21:53:59  <guybrush>defunctzombie: i see your point
21:54:11  <guybrush>also i use git-modules really everywhere
21:54:25  <guybrush>but somehow it feels dirty in my head
21:54:34  <defunctzombie>meaning submodules? or this dependency git method?
21:54:42  <defunctzombie>no.. it isn't dirty ;)
21:54:45  <guybrush>dependency git method
21:54:56  <defunctzombie>it is great
21:54:57  <guybrush>git-modules are not so cool
21:55:07  <guybrush>i mean submodules
21:55:24  <defunctzombie>yea
21:55:30  <defunctzombie>not advocating for that ;)
21:55:33  <guybrush>i actually didnt run into the problem I described haha
21:55:43  <guybrush>just thought about it sometime
21:56:24  <guybrush>and i really like the distributed nature of git, combined with npm is huge win
21:56:47  <guybrush>the only real downside is that semver doesnt work
21:57:03  <defunctzombie>you won't run into that problem because of how awesome npm is hahaha
21:58:10  <defunctzombie>I think the one catch *may be* is that the versions should be different, but even same versions I don't think will cause a problem but I would test that
21:59:04  <guybrush>also i am not a huge fan of unique module-names
21:59:25  <guybrush>i just want to do what ever, without any restrictions :p
21:59:33  <defunctzombie>heh
21:59:42  <defunctzombie>when you work with others it becomes more important
22:00:02  <guybrush>yes
22:00:02  <defunctzombie>since communication breaks down if we don't think we are talking about the same thing
22:00:10  <defunctzombie>but otherwise.. no one cares
22:01:07  <guybrush>anyways great article, keep it up :)
22:02:25  <defunctzombie>thx :)
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22:23:30  <isaacs>defunctzombie_zz: the #commit-ish doesn't work with user/project github shorthand urls until the next version of npm.
22:23:37  <isaacs>defunctzombie_zz: ie, currently busted, but fixed in master.
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22:40:51  <fotoverite>I <3 sublime
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