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04:04:12  <jjjjohnnny>fadventure
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05:11:53  <jjjjohnnny>neo-muturism
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05:35:09  <simcop2387>substack, love the drone virus
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05:43:39  <jjjjohnnny>http://brainwashed.com/common/images/covers/eskaton10-persistence2.jpg
05:43:40  <picbot>http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/8770/trello.png
05:43:59  <Raynos>\o\
05:44:03  <Raynos> /o/
05:46:28  <jjjjohnnny>YAYEA
06:56:10  <Raynos>https://github.com/Raynos/engine.io-stream
06:56:14  <Raynos>More choice!
06:56:24  <Raynos>No longer do you have to follow the SockJS & shoe tyrants!
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07:24:39  <Raynos>dominictarr: replication!
07:24:40  <Raynos>Is it ready
07:25:01  <dominictarr>it's ready for scuttlebutts
07:25:07  <dominictarr>not regular documents
07:25:09  <dominictarr>though
07:25:17  <Raynos>what would it take for regular documents
07:25:19  <dominictarr>see level-scuttlebutt
07:25:23  <Raynos>I want to build a p2p module
07:26:09  <dominictarr>first, need a plugin that intercepts a put, and delays that put until it has retrived the current value
07:26:20  <dominictarr>so as to compare it with the new value
07:26:55  <dominictarr>also, it will need to lock writes to that key
07:27:41  <Raynos>https://gist.github.com/4231480
07:27:56  <Raynos>cant you just map
07:28:00  <Raynos>map a key slot
07:28:02  <Raynos>to a range
07:28:05  <Raynos>of its entire history
07:28:09  <Raynos>then replicate that over scuttlebutt
07:30:43  <Raynos>when you say ready for scuttlebutts
07:30:55  <Raynos>that means you've just solved the "how do you persist scuttlebutt in leveldb" problem?
07:31:27  <dominictarr>not just that
07:31:45  <dominictarr>I mean, you can put 1k scuttlebutts into a leveldb
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07:31:57  <dominictarr>and replicate them all in one go
07:32:04  <dominictarr>if only one tiny thing has changed
07:32:12  <dominictarr>only that update will need to be sent.
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07:33:49  <Raynos>I see
07:34:01  <Raynos>so basically a key range is a scuttlebutt
07:34:05  <Raynos>or each key is a scuttlebutt
07:34:44  <Raynos>dominictarr: https://gist.github.com/4231520 api recommendations?
07:35:30  <dominictarr>yeah, so a certain key range is a scuttlebutt... but you don't want to access that directly
07:35:41  <rvagg>Raynos: my recommendation would be to switch to 2-space indenting
07:35:51  <dominictarr>db.scuttlebutt(key, function (err, sb){...})
07:35:52  <Raynos>rvagg: can't do it.
07:36:20  <dominictarr>2 space, or comma trailing
07:36:37  <rvagg>mmm, 4-space comma-first is... disappointing to look at
07:36:48  <dominictarr>or at least multiple var statements
07:37:16  <Raynos>bikesheds
07:37:18  <Raynos>everywhere.
07:37:23  <rvagg>or use `const` for your top var
07:37:38  <Raynos>xd
07:38:01  <rvagg>#define bikeshed var
07:38:09  <rvagg>bikeshed SignalChannel = ....
07:39:56  <dominictarr>my biggest bike shed is your insistence on named functions
07:40:02  <dominictarr>ANYWAY
07:40:22  <Raynos>does my bad style really make examples worse
07:40:36  <Raynos>is it as bad as examples written in coffeescript
07:40:38  <dominictarr>createNetwork should be createServer ... since it has the same API
07:40:56  <dominictarr>no, not that bad
07:41:15  <dominictarr>but it does mean I can't just read it top to bottom
07:41:44  <Raynos>Interesting
07:41:47  <Raynos>The idea of a "server"
07:41:55  <Raynos>I can inline the callback
07:42:07  <dominictarr>it's the same api as net.createServer
07:42:23  <Raynos>well I think of it more as the same api as dnode
07:42:39  <dominictarr>oh, hangon!
07:42:41  <Raynos>which has a connect and listen shortcut that is net.connect(...) and net.createServer(...).listen(...)
07:42:50  <dominictarr>I see you are calling onConnect two different ways
07:43:00  <Raynos>Yes because it's symmetrical
07:43:09  <dominictarr>I would still call it createServer
07:43:26  <dominictarr>but I redact my statement about that it should be inlined
07:43:39  <Raynos>but its not a server because it has a connect method
07:43:41  <Raynos>its like udp
07:44:07  <Raynos>you can bind (listen) and send (connect)
07:44:22  <dominictarr>but well createNetwork is totally confusing
07:44:31  <Raynos>Maybe I should call it bind and send
07:44:35  <Raynos>and rename it to createSocket
07:44:39  <dominictarr>no
07:44:43  <Raynos>thats stupid :D
07:44:59  <Raynos>https://github.com/Raynos/peer-connection-network
07:45:03  <Raynos>I already renamed it to network
07:45:16  <dominictarr>the reason to call it createServer is that that function has exactly the same signature as net.createServer
07:45:48  <dominictarr>what does it matter if it has connect?
07:46:17  <dominictarr>or, call it createNode(onConnection)
07:46:28  <dominictarr>that is probably most accurate
07:47:13  <Raynos>I'll probably call it createnode
07:47:19  <Raynos>var network = createNode(); :D
07:47:27  <Raynos>although node might not be bad
07:55:43  <dominictarr>it doesn't make sense to call it createNetwork... since that is something that exists over many computers
07:55:54  <dominictarr>and you are only creating something on one.
07:56:32  <Raynos>https://github.com/Raynos/signal-channel#channel-example
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08:12:36  <dominictarr>peer-signals would be a more informative name than signal-channel
08:13:53  <Raynos>its main purpose is to be a signal channel for webrtc
08:14:43  <Raynos>Oh
08:14:49  <Raynos>I think i got confused
08:14:53  <Raynos>"signal channel" isn't a thing
08:15:14  <Raynos>http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/webrtc/basics/#toc-signalling
08:15:28  <Raynos>it just happens to be that a webrtc demo mentions "signalling" with a "google app engine channel"
08:23:19  <dominictarr>yeah "channel" is an empty word. it just means stream, or connection
08:23:21  <Raynos>https://github.com/Raynos/topology#fully-connected-1
08:23:42  <dominictarr>there is a word for that in graph theory
08:23:51  <dominictarr>a "clique"
08:24:12  <Raynos>I know
08:24:19  <Raynos>I choose to use fully connected because its more descriptive
08:24:41  <Raynos>The nice thing about that code is that it works server or browser
08:25:55  <dominictarr>very good
08:26:11  <dominictarr>does it use webRTC or the fallback?
08:27:28  <Raynos>fallback
08:27:40  <dominictarr>ah
08:27:44  <Raynos>ill change it to use webrtc when it works
08:27:45  <dominictarr>the api looks good still
08:27:55  <dominictarr>Raynos, substack https://github.com/dominictarr/r-array
08:28:14  <Raynos>cool!
08:28:27  <dominictarr>with .splice
08:28:38  <Raynos>https://github.com/Raynos/signal-channel/blob/master/index.js#L64 this is the part where I use the shim. Swap it out for the real deal when it works and everything should be fine.
08:29:22  <Raynos>https://github.com/Raynos/signal-channel/blob/master/index.js#L27 its already overwritable
08:32:55  <Raynos>substack: https://github.com/Raynos/topology#fully-connected-1 my p2p thing is ready. I need to work on making peer-nodes suck less but the api surface shouldn't change.
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10:40:07  <juliangruber>pkrumins: idea for screenling: visual diffs for 2 revisions
11:04:20  <juliangruber>Raynos: that is sweet!
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13:03:21  <yorick>substack: awesome thingy you did with the drones :-)
13:03:39  <ik>LOUDBOT: be substack
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18:16:41  <mikeal>substack: wanna get chai thai noodle for lunch?
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18:36:38  <substack>mikeal: sure
18:37:00  <mikeal>actually, i'm trying to talk Max in to doing Chai Thai Noodle House
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18:37:14  <mikeal>dammit
18:37:16  <mikeal>no
18:37:19  <mikeal>i'm talking him in to fusebox
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18:56:39  <dominictarr>jjjjohnnny, http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/12/06/prediction-market-bets-of-bitcoin-available-to-u-s-customers/
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19:10:59  <isaacs>oh man
19:11:08  <fotoverite>what?!
19:11:18  <isaacs>so this guy came into #node.js asking if anyone wants to be the CTO of his project that he has a great idea for and no funding.
19:11:22  <isaacs>http://logs.nodejs.org/node.js/latest#17:55:49.709
19:11:26  <fotoverite>BAHAHHAH!
19:11:53  <fotoverite>Hey guys anyone wants to be part of my group, we don't have money but we live on love and kindness
19:11:54  <substack>all you need to do is all of the work!
19:12:01  <isaacs>i tried hard to get him to learn to code.
19:12:12  <fotoverite>never happens
19:12:17  <fotoverite>those people are loosers
19:12:19  <fotoverite>losers
19:12:32  <fotoverite>You need money because people time is valuable.
19:12:41  <fotoverite>They deserve to be paid even if they are learning.
19:13:00  * shykeschanged nick to zz_shykes
19:13:07  <fotoverite>Why I'll never hire a free intern or get PA's if I ever shot a film.
19:13:52  <isaacs>well, he wasn't asking anyone to work unpaid
19:14:01  <isaacs>just to be the partner on the business proposal while he tried to get funding
19:14:20  <fotoverite>That's slightly better.
19:14:22  <isaacs>but still... it's a risk, and trust, and if you can't suck it up and learn a little js, why should i believe that you can do anything?
19:14:42  <isaacs>anyway, pointed him at jsforcats.com
19:16:12  <fotoverite>i don't know how to do a @ person on this doodad
19:16:23  <fotoverite>Yay jscforcats I'm telling all my friends about it.
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19:18:17  <dominictarr>also, pretty much anyone can have great ideas.
19:18:21  <st_luke>the idea of being someone or doing something is more exciting for some than doing the actual work to get there.
19:18:29  <dominictarr>you don't need some fancy "ideas man"
19:19:24  <isaacs>dominictarr: my eventual offer to him was that in exchange for 100% ownership of his idea, i'd allow him to buy me lunch.
19:19:50  <dominictarr>sounds reasonable
19:20:01  <isaacs>but i'd need a noncompete before we started.
19:20:06  <isaacs>otherwise, how can i trust him not to steal it back?
19:20:10  <isaacs>;)
19:20:12  <dominictarr>I'm sure he'll have 10 more ideas by the time you've finished
19:20:30  <dominictarr>(assuming that he gets to sit across from you while you eat it)
19:20:34  <isaacs>right
19:20:35  <st_luke>make sure you get a noncompete on the lunch as well, because how do you know he's not going to go and buy someone else lunch?
19:20:40  <isaacs>but i'll only get to eat that lunch once.
19:20:44  <isaacs>so it's totally a steal
19:20:55  <isaacs>st_luke: lol
19:20:58  <dominictarr>you need a non-compete on the lunch so you have time to talk
19:21:11  <dominictarr>FOOD IS NOT A RACE!
19:21:25  <isaacs>he seemed like a nice guy, just had some magical ideas about what it takes to write software.
19:21:43  <isaacs>dominictarr: yes, i don't want to be competitive about my eating.
19:21:47  <isaacs>dominictarr: that's not healthy
19:22:02  * isaacsaway
19:22:15  <st_luke>I want to make a signature that looks valid but actually says 'Didn't read' if someone happens to look at it closely
19:22:24  <st_luke>and I will use it for any noncompete I sign from this point forward
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19:42:31  <Raynos>dominictarr: Want to finish / polish the leveldb replication this weekend?
19:43:10  <dominictarr>I'm going to hard-hack
19:43:44  <dominictarr>I'll be back on to it next week, though
19:44:06  <dominictarr>I'm just taking a break at the moment to do a collaborative editing scuttlebutt
19:44:48  <dominictarr>I've also been considering a different approach that will make api way nicer, without all the monkey patching of the leveldb object.
19:50:25  <Raynos>dominictarr: like replicate(db, { range }).pipe(network) :D
19:50:58  <Raynos>dominictarr: can you at write an example for level-scuttlebutt
19:50:59  <dominictarr>no, it will need to be a duplex stream
19:51:14  <Raynos>depends whether you want two way replication
19:51:33  <dominictarr>still needs to be duplex, because of handshaking
19:51:46  <dominictarr>leveldb already has one way replication
19:51:57  <dominictarr>well, master-slave replication
19:52:09  <dominictarr>where all writes take place on the master
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20:36:22  <juliangruber>substack pkrumins: https://github.com/juliangruber/tapedeck run tap tests in your browser with console mirroring and watch mode
20:36:38  * tilgovijoined
20:36:47  <substack>oh nice
20:37:32  <substack>dominictarr: http://substack.net/images/pending_badge.png
20:37:32  <picbot>http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2701/4458823460_4f496aa9d3_b.jpg
20:38:23  <pkrumins>why is picbot in here
20:38:55  * substackbooted picbot (picbot)
20:39:02  <substack>silly robot
20:39:18  <pkrumins>good
20:39:50  <substack>juliangruber: this is pretty sweet
20:40:10  <substack>when I rip apart the code in the testling module I should just have it use tapedeck
20:40:48  <juliangruber>substack: I needed that for running testling ci tests before pushing
20:41:11  <juliangruber>it doesn't to a proper ast rewrite yet for redirecting console.logs, just regexp
20:41:27  <substack>redirect?
20:41:35  <substack>just console.log = function () {}
20:41:40  <substack>there's no magic necessary
20:41:40  <juliangruber>console.log -> websocket.write
20:41:51  <juliangruber>so to see tap output in the console
20:42:28  <substack>the harness running on ci.testling.com just does console.log = function () {}
20:42:33  <substack>at the very top
20:42:36  <substack>much simpler
20:42:44  <substack>and less fragile
20:42:47  <juliangruber>how do you get the tap output then?
20:42:58  <substack>you get it in the console.log arguments
20:43:00  <juliangruber>I know, rewriting this way sucks
20:43:06  <juliangruber>ah
20:43:07  <juliangruber>oh
20:43:18  <juliangruber>i thought this was forbidden in browsers
20:43:19  <juliangruber>:D
20:43:20  <substack>console.log = function (data) { send data over a stream to someplace }
20:43:25  <juliangruber>sweet
20:43:26  <substack>everything is permitted
20:43:45  <substack>just make sure to save the console.log ref so that you can call the original log function
20:43:49  <substack>BUT
20:43:55  <substack>make sure not to .call or .apply the console.log function
20:44:01  <substack>doesn't work in IE8/9
20:44:08  <substack>just originalLog(msg)
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20:49:20  <juliangruber>what is the purpose of having the old console.log staying around?
20:49:38  <juliangruber>new release: no more magic!
20:49:51  <substack>juliangruber: so that you can still see the output in your terminal
20:50:38  <chrisdickinson>does a CLI module already exist for transforming require.js-using `define(function(require) { return export })` javascript into node/browserify style?
20:50:49  <chrisdickinson>(i just wrote most of one using falafel + cssauron)
20:52:45  <substack>I don't know of any
20:52:47  <substack>sounds rad
20:55:37  <juliangruber>substack: you have that output in your terminal and if you use the html reporter straight in your document.body
20:56:38  <juliangruber>substack: the idea is to not use the browser for viewing test results and if you want to have them in your browser, show them directly in the body. nothing that wouldn't work in ie
20:56:54  <substack>also use xhr-write-stream
20:57:03  <substack>it works all the way back to ie6
20:57:14  <substack>it's what testling-ci presently uses
20:57:28  <substack>I should actually just spin the console.log patcher out into its own module
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20:59:44  <Raynos>leveldb: has replication?
21:01:30  <juliangruber>substack: need duplex for the watch mode
21:01:50  <dominictarr>Raynos, you can just do levelup.readStream().pipe(leveldb.writeStream())
21:02:00  <substack>juliangruber: polling
21:02:03  <Raynos>Oh true
21:03:04  <mikeal>substack: max bailed on fusebox, you still wanna go to chai thai noodle house?
21:03:11  <substack>sure
21:03:20  <mikeal>you wanna meet there or should i pick you up?
21:03:24  <mikeal>i don't know how close you are to it
21:05:16  <substack>my bike has a flat right now
21:05:25  <substack>so better stop by
21:06:56  <substack>3276 logan st
21:09:53  <ik>http://jqueery.com/
21:10:23  <juliangruber>ik: :D
21:13:09  <juliangruber>MEH
21:13:23  <juliangruber>:O LOUDBOT YOU NO LIKE SHORT WORDS?
21:14:58  <juliangruber>dominictarr: i'm implementing a kv-like interface for scuttlebutt...any naming suggestions?
21:15:09  <juliangruber>for super easy reactive programming, e.g. with juliangruber/editable
21:15:16  <dominictarr>you mean with streams?
21:15:21  <juliangruber>yup
21:15:38  <juliangruber>model.get('name').pipe(editable)
21:15:58  <dominictarr>why not just use exactly the same as KV?
21:16:07  <juliangruber>I meant, editable.pipe(model.rw('name')).pipe(editable)
21:16:20  <juliangruber>I want read-write streams
21:16:43  <dominictarr>so, it persists the stream, but passes the update through also/
21:16:45  <dominictarr>?
21:17:31  <juliangruber>no, streams for getting updates/updating a model's value under a certain key
21:18:10  <juliangruber>substack: will do
21:19:16  <juliangruber>dominictarr: scuttleKV(model)('name') would be a stream that emits updates to the model's name field and updates the model when written to
21:20:16  <Raynos>juliangruber: I went down that route with delta-stream
21:20:27  <Raynos>its a bad idea
21:20:49  <juliangruber>Raynos: why?
21:20:57  <Raynos>because its a mess
21:21:09  <dominictarr>it's more that streams have some overhead that IO requires, but reactive updates dont.
21:21:20  <dominictarr>pause, etc
21:21:29  <Raynos>well not even that
21:21:34  <Raynos>its the idea of streamign a subset of teh database
21:21:39  <Raynos>directly into a UI component
21:21:41  <Raynos>thats just a mess
21:21:55  <Raynos>you need a seperate in memory representation of the data
21:21:58  <juliangruber>with editable that can be handy for quick prototyping
21:21:58  <Raynos>preferably a stream of changes
21:22:02  <Raynos>and then just pipe that around
21:22:26  <dominictarr>well, a stream of name changes might be too fine grained.
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21:23:55  <juliangruber>it's mainly for writing 2 loc and having a dom element that mirrors a scuttlebutt/model value and also can update it
21:24:53  <Raynos>juliangruber: https://github.com/Colingo/populate#stream-example
21:24:58  <Raynos>your better off doing it manually
21:24:58  <juliangruber>st_luke: wow you got great offers in reply to your job tweet!
21:25:06  <Raynos>then hooking it up
21:25:34  <juliangruber>Raynos: i'll just do it, whatevs
21:25:40  <Raynos>o/
21:25:45  <juliangruber>yeah!
21:25:46  <Raynos>good luck.
21:25:50  <juliangruber>:D
21:26:24  <dominictarr>jjjjohnnny, substack
21:29:18  <substack>really great
21:29:28  <mbalho>:(
21:30:11  <substack>dominictarr: http://ci.testling.com/substack/notathingthatexists.png
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22:11:09  <st_luke>juliangruber: I know! I can thank all the retweets from the amazing people in the node community for that, ++isaacs
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23:02:09  <isaacs>st_luke: np
23:03:15  <isaacs>st_luke: two things that i'll pretty much always retweet are if a new person says "I just published my first npm module blah" and if a noder i know says "I need a job to keep working on node"
23:03:37  <isaacs>the visibility of such statements serve my long-term interests
23:05:01  <fotoverite>+1 to that
23:05:16  <fotoverite>Anything really interesting that peaked you interest?
23:05:26  <fotoverite>lab49 would be pretty flexible.
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23:08:51  <dominictarr>st_luke, you should turn them all down, and just hack on stuff for a while
23:10:14  <defunctzombie>substack: ping
23:12:57  <isaacs>st_luke: or, you should *accept* them all, and hack on stuff until they notice and stop paying you
23:16:13  <defunctzombie>st_luke: I like isaacs last suggestion the best
23:18:12  <ik>LOUDBOT: i don't like any of these suggestions. Would you weigh in?
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23:26:18  <defunctzombie>huh.. that is surprisingly on topic
23:34:20  <st_luke>isaacs defunctzombie: that's a great idea. My last job was around 50% hacking on random things then using the remaining time to get the team's actual projects done.
23:35:05  <defunctzombie>that's the best way to do it
23:35:16  <defunctzombie>I call it "superemployment"
23:35:17  <st_luke>but once I started using 75% or more of my work day to hack on random stuff that I thought was more fun I figured it was time to leave
23:35:20  <ik>my last job was stitching soccer balls
23:35:41  <ik>i worked 26 hours a day and died of throat cancer
23:38:05  <defunctzombie>st_luke: cafe hacking shit this weekend?
23:38:09  <st_luke>the 'acqui-hire' is an interesting experience and I learned a lot of what to expect if it happens again at another place in the future
23:38:18  <st_luke>defunctzombie: yeah I'm down
23:38:27  <fotoverite>May I join?
23:38:35  <st_luke>have a friend coming by from upstate for a few hours tomorrow sometime but otherwise I'm open
23:39:00  <fotoverite>Weekend is fully open. And I want to do some improvements to my es intergration
23:39:18  <substack>defunctzombie: pong
23:39:47  <st_luke>fotoverite: all are welcome as usual
23:40:13  <defunctzombie>substack: I have random goodies and questions to discuss, but grabbing a quick bite currently :)
23:40:48  <fotoverite>loving open path, so much fun having data to finally work with
23:40:59  <substack>st_luke: RT'd
23:41:17  <st_luke>substack: hooray! thanks dude.
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