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03:34:46  <substack>jjjohnnny: http://vimeo.com/52521427
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03:34:57  <substack>dominictarr: also ^^
03:35:23  <substack>covers lots of wearable computing tech
03:35:37  <dominictarr>cool
03:35:53  <substack>are you in the .us yet?
03:36:02  <dominictarr>yup! in seattle
03:36:06  <substack>sweet
03:36:07  <fotoverite>Seattle!
03:36:25  <substack>feel free to crash in my room while I'm in japan
03:37:18  <dominictarr>thanks!
03:37:32  <dominictarr>so, I had some grief getting through the border
03:37:45  <fotoverite>I saw the twitter. WTF man
03:37:53  <dominictarr>it's kinda hard to explain "globe trotting open source developer"
03:37:54  <fotoverite>I hate what the TSA is doing
03:38:17  <dominictarr>fotoverite, you are in seattle tomorrow?
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03:39:16  <dominictarr>basically, it was just like getting hauled into the principles office.
03:39:52  <dominictarr>they would like try to scare me into "confessing" that I was here to work illegally.
03:41:12  <substack>don't they understand that working is silly
03:41:32  <substack>wait they have the worst possible kind of job so clearly not
03:41:43  <dominictarr>yeah, so I was like "I'm going to a conference, and then I'm just gonna you know, hang out"
03:41:57  <dominictarr>but they where all "WTF, who does that?"
03:42:07  <jjjohnnny>if yr not here to work or spend money then GTFO
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03:42:16  <fotoverite>Really!
03:42:22  <substack>but only spending your money in highly curated ways
03:42:24  <fotoverite>I don't get that at all, backpacker
03:42:39  <fotoverite>dominictarr: yuo
03:42:42  <fotoverite>up
03:42:46  <substack>I caught some shit from tsa folks for not having enough luggage
03:42:47  <jjjohnnny>SHOW ME YOUR GIFT CERTIFICATES
03:42:48  <LOUDBOT>HOW DO YOU EXPECT TO EXPRESS BOTH EXCITEMENT AND SURPRISE AT THE SAME TIME WITHOUT UNICODE‽
03:42:50  <fotoverite>damn what's wrong with my typing finger
03:42:54  <fotoverite>LoL
03:42:58  <substack>didn't get pulled aside though, they were just pissy
03:43:04  <dominictarr>yeah, they thought I didn't have enough stuff
03:43:22  <dominictarr>Also, that I should spend more time in NZ.
03:43:49  <substack>"you're not my dad"
03:43:59  <substack>"and even if you were..."
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03:44:42  <dominictarr>yeah, and so then they just let me though anyway.
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03:44:57  <st_luke>USA
03:45:06  <st_luke>AMERICA
03:45:07  <LOUDBOT>PLEASE EXPLAIN YOURSELF AND STOP BEING MEAN!
03:45:13  <dominictarr>Thank god that I didn't have a ar-drone for check in
03:45:15  <jjjohnnny>this is why you wear suits
03:45:16  <st_luke>LOUDBOT: twitlast
03:45:16  <LOUDBOT>st_luke: http://twitter.com/loudbot/status/265661099666444289 (Juffo-Wup/#mefi)
03:45:35  <dominictarr>that would have been difficult to explain...
03:46:03  <jjjohnnny>when you wear a suit you are wearing the american uniform
03:46:18  <jjjohnnny>shows america what team ur on
03:46:18  <substack>I saw ar drones for sale on the concourse at SFO
03:46:25  <fotoverite>WE NEED EVERYONE TO BE RICH WHITE YUPPIES TO NOT BE AFRAID!
03:46:25  <LOUDBOT>YOU WANNA WASH WANG? OR YOU WANNA WATCH WANG WASH WANG?
03:46:35  <fotoverite>loudbot twitlast
03:46:37  <st_luke>I wouldn't mind being a rich yuppie
03:47:20  <dominictarr>yeah, I got pulled a side before I had even said anything. clearly, I should get a haircut before I enter the US.
03:47:22  <jjjohnnny>srsly just beig white is no longer good enough
03:48:10  <dominictarr>this cafe is closing. be back in a bit...
03:48:17  <substack>the TSA systematically punishes interesting people
03:48:32  <st_luke>I just made a wager with my boss that I can rewrite a project in node in 8 days and if I miss the deadline, he has to fire me.
03:48:34  <st_luke>8 days is so much time
03:48:57  <dominictarr>st_luke, +++
03:49:18  <dominictarr>just do nothing, then get a new node job.
03:49:20  <st_luke>I think introducing gambling is what I needed to make me interested again in having a job
03:49:33  <substack>just keep doing that
03:49:35  <fotoverite>st_luke +++
03:49:37  <substack>gamblers ruin will set in
03:49:41  <fotoverite>do you get a raise if you win?
03:49:54  <dominictarr>bbiab
03:50:02  <substack>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_ruin
03:50:32  <st_luke>fotoverite: I don't know, I can ask for a raise after I'm done but I'm more concerned with being excited about work right now
03:51:12  <substack>I just spin everything out into lots of tiny modules
03:51:17  <substack>tiny modules are fun
03:51:38  <substack>fun because they are easy
03:51:39  <st_luke>substack: I've gotten close to gambler's ruin in other senses but I'm usually not satisfied until I risk hitting rock bottom
03:51:47  <fotoverite>And there's my quote!
03:51:49  <substack>but difficult in interesting ways
03:52:09  <jjjohnnny>i hit rock bottom for the bounce
03:52:18  <substack>rock bottom is overrated
03:52:22  <substack>having been there
03:52:42  <fotoverite>Was it rock bottom in NJ, that's true rock bottom.
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03:55:09  <st_luke>substack: hitting rock bottom is one of the few ways you can have your perspective changed permanently
03:56:24  <substack>I guess rock bottom wasn't very far from my baseline preceeding rock bottom
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03:57:32  <substack>never having had a real job
03:58:11  <st_luke>hindsight often results in a relative scale at the time being skewed logarithmically as far as memory is concerned.
03:59:04  <st_luke>anyway, fuck everything.
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04:02:00  <substack>write modules, eat tacos
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04:03:32  <fotoverite>Aww, everything isn't that bad. just most things
04:03:41  <fotoverite>Plus you have a standing desk now!
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04:23:40  <jjjohnnny>substack doesnt know his ABCs!
04:24:59  <substack>fact
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04:59:08  <jjjohnnny>question: do you wish you could do pull requests thru NPM?
04:59:22  <fotoverite>No
04:59:42  <fotoverite>That seems to really not serve what NPM is at it's core
05:00:32  <jjjohnnny>well there goes the election
05:00:40  <jjjohnnny>poll git skewed
05:02:35  <jjjohnnny>http://chessfoo.com/board/stackvm
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05:21:19  <substack>dominictarr: https://twitter.com/ralphholzmann/status/265678336687239168
05:21:49  <substack>more stream cult followers
05:22:04  <substack>all is going according to plan
05:23:12  <dominictarr>very good.
05:24:18  <dominictarr>I'm gonna do a talk on the various stream apis, old streams, new stream, and gozala's reducables and how they are all the same thing ultimately.
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07:18:06  <st_luke>put my makeshift standing desk right next to the window so I get to hear the drunks yelling down bedford ave
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07:19:40  <substack>NEW YORK NEW YORK
07:19:40  <LOUDBOT>I DO NOT TAKE COFFEE BECAUSE I DO NOT WANT TO GO TO HELL
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09:44:22  <substack>https://github.com/substack/scoper
09:44:28  <substack>lets you modify scope at runtime
09:45:17  <substack>this plus ast diffs gets up to what jresig was demoing at empire for khan academy
09:45:25  <substack>except as tiny reusable pieces
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15:03:36  <tanepiper>substack: has bouncy changed a lot recently?
15:04:02  <tanepiper>getting https://gist.github.com/cf2b14efb2b4177243d5 as an exception recently
15:05:39  <tanepiper>(hmm from what I can see, no)
15:10:31  <tanepiper>oh hmm, seems to be when I push ab past a certain limit
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17:17:06  <st_luke>weird
17:17:28  <st_luke>guy opens an issue and essentially says "use my module instead, it doesn't use regular expressions"
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17:39:20  <substack>tanepiper: strange, I've never gotten that error
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18:21:49  <fotoverite>Russell you get my email?
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18:31:22  <st_luke>why do people have an issue with regular expressions?
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18:47:38  <isaacs>st_luke: i don't know.
18:47:49  <isaacs>st_luke: regular expressions are really good for some use cases.
18:48:00  <isaacs>st_luke: minimatch and glob work by translating glob expressions into regular expressions.
18:48:29  <st_luke>isaacs: I'd rather use 2 lines of regular expressions than 30 lines of if/else statements
18:48:37  <isaacs>st_luke: totally
18:48:53  <isaacs>st_luke: and they're pretty fast, in mos cases.
18:50:55  <st_luke>yeah
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20:01:38  <substack>regexes are crazy fast usually
20:01:44  <substack>those engines are highly optimized
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20:10:27  <CoverSlide>'twould be nice if regexes worked on Buffers,
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20:11:01  <CoverSlide>without converting to 'binary'
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21:41:51  <dominictarr>substack, regexps are especially fast if they start with ^
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22:22:25  <Raynos>substack: where we going to be friday 4pm?
22:23:24  <substack>Raynos: I'll be in oakland or sf
22:23:59  <substack>dominictarr: so one thing that really bothers me about crypto implementations
22:24:04  <substack>is how asymmetric the key types are
22:24:19  <substack>for servers you've got to get a cert and a private key
22:24:25  <dominictarr>yeah, it's a bitch
22:24:32  <substack>and then for clients you *maybe* get a private/public key but perhaps not
22:24:40  <dominictarr>I made a script to generate the right sort of keys though
22:24:43  <substack>so that's dumb and sucks for peer to peer systems
22:24:47  <substack>yes I made one of those too
22:24:53  <substack>except not "the right sort"
22:25:01  <substack>just private/public PEM blobs in json
22:25:08  <Raynos>substack: It would be cool for us to be in the same place
22:25:12  <dominictarr>I just shelled out to ssh-key gen
22:25:17  <substack>same
22:25:29  <substack>now I'm hacking up a secure-peer module that takes the same kind of keypairs on both ends
22:25:44  <dominictarr>right, we'll just need a fallback style system I guess.
22:25:47  <substack>that way it won't matter which side initiates the connection
22:26:01  <dominictarr>cos, there is proper browser crypto coming too.
22:26:17  <substack>they'll probably fuck it up
22:26:25  <dominictarr>yes, probably.
22:26:32  <substack>hopefully there is enough to salvage it
22:26:39  <dominictarr>fingers crossed.
22:26:46  <substack>thinking of networked applications in terms of clients and servers is a disease
22:26:57  <dominictarr>substack, ++
22:27:03  <substack>it should matter little which side initiates the connection
22:27:21  <substack>which makes everything so much simpler
22:27:35  <dominictarr>think of browsers not application sandboxes.
22:27:42  <substack>peers are great because you only write logic once
22:27:49  <dominictarr>think of browsers as "generic application sandboxes".
22:27:51  <substack>not twice differently for client and server
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22:28:34  <dominictarr>browsers are weird, because they evolved from a remote document viewer, into a secure application platform.
22:28:47  <substack>https://github.com/substack/rsa-json <-- my keypair generator
22:29:22  <substack>it's shitty that node's core crypto module can only accept PEM strings, not DH blobs
22:29:34  <dominictarr>but should just start over with something that just runs applications inside a hardware VM (like smartos zones) with customizable permissions
22:29:47  <dominictarr>substack, what is a DH blob?
22:30:08  <substack>serialization of a diffie-hellman keypair object
22:30:28  <dominictarr>oh, right.
22:30:28  <substack>in openssl you pass dh objects directly to many of the crypto functions
22:30:38  <dominictarr>those blocks all fit together a special way
22:30:53  <substack>it's far more difficult than it needs to be
22:30:59  <substack>because c sucks so much at data structures mostly
22:31:14  <dominictarr>so, like signing doesn't use DH.
22:31:19  <dominictarr>right?
22:31:26  <dominictarr>that is why it wants PEM
22:31:27  <substack>everything uses DH objects
22:31:38  <substack>the PEM just gets converted to DH behind the scenes
22:31:59  <dominictarr>oh, so asym pairs are based on DH?
22:32:46  <substack>yes
22:33:06  <substack>and when you read a public key from the other side you still have a DH object with a null private key
22:33:49  <dominictarr>oh right,
22:34:05  <dominictarr>but I thought DH was for exchanging a shared sym key?
22:34:34  <substack>yes but the datastructure is kept around
22:34:52  <substack>and that's what the struct is called
22:34:55  <substack>anyways it's all stupid
22:35:06  <dominictarr>right, well, I mean we can fix it.
22:35:07  <dominictarr>in node
22:35:13  <substack>yes doing that right now
22:35:32  <substack>using certs is such a crap way of doing crypto
22:35:48  <substack>servers should have the same kinds of keys as clients
22:35:48  <dominictarr>I'm sure not many people use crypto directly, apart from node's internal implementation.
22:35:56  <dominictarr>agree.
22:37:01  <dominictarr>substack, have you heard of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypherpunks
22:39:22  <substack>some of it
22:43:33  <dominictarr>oh, yeah
22:43:36  <dominictarr>in other news
22:43:45  <dominictarr>I'm working with nearForm now
22:44:16  <substack>oh cool
22:44:16  <dominictarr>basically, they are gonna feed me so I can work on scuttlebutt & distributed ecosystem
22:44:21  <substack>haha awesome
22:45:25  <dominictarr>yeah, so they already had an interest in this stuff, and have contacts who want to pay for distributed apps.
22:45:34  <substack>wow that is super excellent!
22:45:35  <dominictarr>that can sync phone to phone, etc.
22:45:56  <substack>yeah scuttlebutt + crdt make all that so simple
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22:46:37  <dominictarr>yup, but they are only really the basics.
22:46:55  <substack>still needs a good journaling solution
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22:47:13  <dominictarr>yeah, and more stuff for managing lots of documents
22:47:16  <substack>yes
22:47:23  <substack>especially docs that don't fit completely in memory
22:47:41  <substack>distributed out to multiple systems and on-disk storage
22:47:44  <dominictarr>that sounds too complicated
22:48:07  <dominictarr>but deff being able to manage many docs, and build apps that don't have all docs in memory.
22:48:44  <substack>especially if memory were a parameter you give the library
22:49:03  <substack>really important for memory budgeting in low-memory environment
22:49:11  <substack>phones and such especially
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22:49:38  <dominictarr>yeah. stuff that is you are using has to be in memory obv.
22:49:53  <dominictarr>the rest can be in or out, potentially.
22:50:28  <substack>crdt.Seq needs splice() to
22:50:33  * substackmight send a pull req for that
22:50:51  <substack>parity with the Array.prototype would rock
22:50:54  * anoemiquit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:50:54  * anoemi_changed nick to anoemi
22:51:25  <dominictarr>yeah, thing is though that it is more like a linked list.
22:51:35  <dominictarr>you can't duplicate elements, for example
22:52:12  <substack>I think splice would be fitting
22:52:18  <substack>since you specify the start and end index
22:52:36  <substack>which could easily get translated into relative inserts
22:53:14  <dominictarr>hmm, splice takes (start, deletes, inserts, ...)
22:54:34  <dominictarr>I feel like you are skirting dangerous territory here, because it's not an array. unless you are just using the indexes during a sync calculation and then throwing them away.
22:54:48  <substack>yes there would be a warning in the docs about that
22:54:54  <dominictarr>but I'd take a pull request to add it if you want to make one.
22:54:54  <substack>to only use indices on the same tick
22:55:14  <substack>but actually
22:55:18  <dominictarr>actually, it's tighter than that.
22:55:31  <substack>that is not so different from how modifying refs works anyhow
22:56:01  * wiwilliaquit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
22:56:22  <dominictarr>good point.
22:56:45  <substack>in a single process with different pieces firing asynchronously
22:56:53  <dominictarr>except normally refs are only changed by the program running locally...
22:56:57  <substack>or even on the same tick indicies go stale when you modify the array
22:57:09  <substack>but the modifications would still only happen on the next tick
22:57:22  <substack>since node can't pre-empt the current context
22:58:10  * yorickquit (Remote host closed the connection)
22:58:36  <dominictarr>if you have stuff triggered by event listeners you can get all kinds of weird bugs
22:58:47  <dominictarr>thing.emit('something')
22:58:55  <dominictarr>can cause arbitary code to run.
22:59:43  <dominictarr>I've fixed loads of weird bugs where state relevant to the current function was changing inside a sync event.
22:59:47  <dominictarr>listener...
23:00:19  <dominictarr>so, I'd say, take care emitting events while changing references.
23:00:35  * anoemiquit (Quit: anoemi)
23:03:09  <substack>maybe schedule events to fire on the next tick?
23:03:22  <substack>to eliminate that category of bugs for a slight performance hit
23:03:43  <substack>I would hope that such a hit shouldn't matter since the messages are going over the network anyways
23:09:21  <dominictarr>I think the solution is to design your program right
23:09:26  <dominictarr>nextTick is ordered
23:09:35  <dominictarr>so you are just defering the bug
23:09:45  <dominictarr>basically, you need to
23:09:54  <dominictarr>mutate state, THEN emit events
23:10:18  <dominictarr>don't interlieve that.
23:10:37  <substack>sounds a bit like a transaction
23:12:01  <dominictarr>it is, but only a very small localized one.
23:12:28  <dominictarr>I covered this issue with some examples in the talk I gave on streams at LNUG
23:12:29  <dominictarr>http://vimeo.com/50310116
23:17:30  * st_lukeis noting this for later
23:17:42  * mikealquit (Quit: Leaving.)
23:19:31  * wiwilliajoined
23:24:43  <substack>reg'd for nko at joyent
23:27:56  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: [developer: 3, free: 15]
23:29:17  * mikealjoined
23:30:03  <dominictarr>maybe microsoft can have something up here...
23:47:01  <substack>https://gist.github.com/4028525
23:47:04  <substack>secure-peer readme
23:47:13  <substack>no code yet that's just how I want it to be provisionally
23:50:51  * wiwilliaquit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
23:52:26  <st_luke>substack: nice readme
23:52:29  * st_lukequit (Remote host closed the connection)
23:54:45  * maksjoined
23:56:42  <dominictarr>Documentation Driven Development