00:09:28  <dominictarr>Raynos, I'm warming to your idea of streams inside a single process.
00:09:56  <dominictarr>streams have a much nicer api than events for sending things to a particular place...
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02:52:37  <niftylettuce>substack: controlling* on kerningham quote btw
02:53:31  <niftylettuce>substack: artwork is great dude
03:13:21  <jesusabdullah>isaacs: any advice for writing a "through fstream" ? Think like dominic's event-stream but for fstream directory objects instead of for streams
03:13:44  <jesusabdullah>isaacs: like, a good place to figure out what a readable fstream and a writable fstream need/expect
03:14:07  <jesusabdullah>isaacs: is just listening/emitting the 'entry' event enough?
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04:02:45  <substack>jesusabdullah: do you have charlie robbins' cell?
04:02:53  <substack>he's lost in shanghai it would seem
04:23:26  <jesusabdullah>I don't
04:23:28  <jesusabdullah>well actually
04:24:02  <jesusabdullah>substack: try (631)806-0396 (no guarantees)
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09:10:35  <jesusabdullah>holy shit iptables look heinous
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09:37:37  <dominictarr>Raynos, ping!
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09:47:22  <Raynos>dominictarr: pong
09:48:16  <dominictarr>holy fuck! http://www.genomicon.com/2012/09/process-is-king/ CARDBOARD BICYCLE!
09:48:46  <Raynos>and yes in process streams are useful
09:49:01  <Raynos>im cooling down of my delta-stream / splice-stream idea though
09:49:36  <dominictarr>thats funny, because I was writing some pseudocode yesterday
09:49:46  <dominictarr>and I was like, hmm, need a delta-stream here.
09:49:59  <substack>just used scuttlebutt for a hackathon in china
09:51:10  <substack>took a thing that wasn't collaborative at all and made it so very easily
09:53:07  <Raynos>:D
09:53:19  <mbalho>enterprisestack should make npm install synergize
09:53:22  <Raynos>substack: Try discovery-network too!
09:53:39  <Raynos>https://github.com/Raynos/dn-leaderboard/blob/master/network.js#L12
09:53:51  <Raynos>take a thing that wasn't peer to peer at all and make it so very easily
09:53:53  <substack>neat
09:54:18  <Raynos>its basically a stupid thin proxy relay server in the cloud for streams
09:56:10  <dominictarr>substack, woot!
09:57:26  <dominictarr>substack, do you have the thing you made in a repo?
10:00:44  <substack>more features for an existing project https://github.com/substack/vexport
10:00:51  <substack>the original wasn't very well developed
10:10:28  <substack>ordering fruit from a shop was fun
10:20:41  <substack>dominictarr: https://plus.google.com/116910304844117268718/posts/axHbfwF6Aim
10:21:46  <substack>/!\ could be awesome /!\
10:23:48  <substack>http://2012.jsconf.eu/2012/09/13/volunteers-wanted-free-ticket-included.html
10:24:18  <dominictarr>wow, that is kinda extreme actually.
10:24:53  <dominictarr>and I won't be back in berlin until the 3rd
10:25:31  <dominictarr>then next two days are reject.js and nodecopter.
10:25:43  <dominictarr>but hey, I guess I can always apply anyway...
10:27:00  <dominictarr>maybe they will need another person for something else anyway.
10:27:50  <mbalho>hopefully im goin to nodecopter
10:28:49  <dominictarr>last batch is on sale today
10:33:39  <dominictarr>substack, how do you add an object to vexport?
10:36:16  <dominictarr>oh, I had to do npm run build
10:39:49  <Raynos>https://github.com/Raynos/insert#example
10:40:02  <Raynos>Never again shall I use those verbose annoying DOM insertion methods
10:40:16  <Raynos>s/verbose annoying DOM insertion methods/insertBefore
10:47:50  <dominictarr>Raynos, are those just shorter aliases?
10:48:31  <Raynos>dominictarr: http://www.w3.org/TR/dom/#mutation-methods
10:48:37  <Raynos>They are implementations of the DOM4 mutation methods
10:48:42  <Raynos>whilst we wait for them to land
10:49:08  <Raynos>I realized TJ's component thing has a bunch of useful things
10:51:32  <Raynos>FFS.
10:51:47  <Raynos>TJ has some nice modules but he doesn't publish them to npm because he's a component troll
10:52:03  <dominictarr>groan
10:53:05  <dominictarr>Raynos, you should add a link to a description of the DOM4 methods.
10:53:16  <Raynos>dominictarr: good idea
10:53:24  <Raynos>https://github.com/component/component/issues/40
10:53:48  <dominictarr>hyperlinks are like require but for documentation
10:59:03  <dominictarr>substack, okay, I have applied to volunteer for jsconf.
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11:18:33  <substack>\o/
11:19:58  <substack>Raynos: you could always start publishing those components things to npm anyways
11:20:10  <substack>write a script that polls his github for new ones
11:20:29  <Raynos>substack: I want to require(event-component) https://github.com/component/event
11:20:39  <Raynos>I dont want to use his stupid component installer
11:20:43  <Raynos>I want to use npm to install them
11:20:55  <Raynos>Either I rewrite his components as npm modules or I publish them to npm
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11:21:49  <Raynos>Oh yeah I know
11:22:03  <Raynos>substack: misread. I'm going to write a script to publish them to npm automatically
11:23:18  <substack>so flying out tomorrow at noon
11:23:47  <substack>I'll be in taipei for 10 hours wheee
11:24:15  <substack>sure as fuck not staying at that creepy airport
11:24:33  <Raynos>:D
11:25:31  <substack>layovers are pretty awesome if they're long enough
11:25:44  <substack>this one is from 13:50 to 23:40
11:47:49  * substackwanders around
11:48:14  <Raynos>dominictarr: how do I represent a tree in crdt
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14:33:32  <_DOMINIC_>Raynos, we need a reliable stream, that gives each message a sequence number, and can reconnect
14:33:45  <_DOMINIC_>and fill out what has happened since.
14:33:50  <substack>found some uygur sweet bread in an out of the way alley
14:34:01  <_DOMINIC_>substack, SCORE!
14:34:04  <substack>somehow I picked up that hashi is 8
14:34:10  <substack>I don't remember learning that
14:34:34  <substack>oh right from japanese I think
14:34:58  <_DOMINIC_>ichi ni san chi go loku nana hashi quu juu
14:35:27  <_DOMINIC_>& anatawa ushi des ka?
14:35:37  <_DOMINIC_>(are you a cow?)
14:35:45  <_DOMINIC_>is all I remember from japanese class
14:36:25  <substack>the odd thing about chinese is if you don't get the tones exactly correct people will have no idea what you're talking about
14:36:27  <_DOMINIC_>Raynos, it would be useful for logging client stuff while the user is disconnected, for one.
14:36:49  <substack>and I wandered through some really excellent alleyways packed with people and vendors
14:36:54  <substack>very narrow
14:37:04  <_DOMINIC_>yeah. and we laugh at them because they confuse "L" with "R"
14:38:06  <substack>also there are proper-looking tiny chain shops in these very narrow alleys
14:38:11  <substack>unexpectedly
14:38:14  <_DOMINIC_>ha
14:38:34  <_DOMINIC_>the good thing about those places is they have air conditioning
14:38:39  <substack>with logos and branding and brightly-painted interiors
14:38:59  <substack>it's been pretty pleasant today, 21 right now
14:39:02  <_DOMINIC_>you can alway go in and hang out a bit looking at skin whitening cream etc.
14:39:15  <_DOMINIC_>oh, you are a lot further north than I was.
14:40:17  <substack>31.2N
14:40:34  <substack>actually 31.0
14:41:40  <substack>oakland is 37.8
14:43:53  <_DOMINIC_>hmm, phnom penh in 11.6 N
14:44:12  <_DOMINIC_>Berlin is at 52
14:44:55  <_DOMINIC_>and the water forms a way tighter vortex going down the drain than I am used to.
14:45:15  <_DOMINIC_>but that would be nothing new to someone from alaska
14:45:49  <substack>it splashes you in the face in alaska
14:46:47  <_DOMINIC_>haha. if you have a large pendulum you can see it rotate as the earth does.
14:47:10  <substack>yep
14:47:18  <_DOMINIC_>faucoult's pendulum (great book, btw)
14:47:21  <substack>there was one in missouri in this cave I was in
14:47:43  <_DOMINIC_>it would have a more pronounced effect with latitude.
14:47:55  <substack>so I've learned that programmers basically feel the same about the internet and automation everywhere
14:48:06  <substack>talking with folks in china
14:49:55  <_DOMINIC_>ha, so it looks like fairbanks is about as far south as the northern most parts of antartica are north.
14:50:13  <_DOMINIC_>substack, that is good to hear.
14:50:35  <_DOMINIC_>I've been reading cypherpunk stuff just recently.
14:51:04  <_DOMINIC_>one of their things is that it's just a natural capacity of physics and maths.
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15:29:43  <_DOMINIC_>why do bash statements have different meaning inside a if [ ... ] ????
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15:43:10  <_DOMINIC_>oh man, why are IF statements so difficult in bash?
15:43:44  <_DOMINIC_>eventually, I figure out a way to do what I need, but I can't understand them.
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16:01:04  <Raynos>_DOMINIC_: why name change?
16:01:18  <_DOMINIC_>irc said my name was in use.
16:01:37  <_DOMINIC_>some session problem.
16:01:44  <Raynos>oh
16:01:44  <Raynos>sucks
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16:02:05  <Raynos>and why isn't scuttlebutt a sequence stream?
16:02:15  <Raynos>just implement it using keys
16:02:45  <Raynos>first message is 0.5 second is 0.75 third is 0.875 etc
16:03:03  <Raynos>you could do it more efficient key wise if you wanted to
16:03:12  <Raynos>maybe 1 <-> n
16:03:36  <_DOMINIC_>hmm, yeah, you could consider it a special case of a scuttlebutt.
16:03:54  <_DOMINIC_>or you could reimplement it and remove a lot of baggage.
16:05:51  <Raynos>True
16:05:56  <Raynos>probably better to reimplement
16:06:08  <_DOMINIC_>then you could use it for stuff like resumable uploads/downloads.
16:07:05  <_DOMINIC_>in certain cases, like when the waiting buffer gets too large, you could write it to disk/local storage
16:07:25  <_DOMINIC_>and then resume it when you get another connection.
16:08:01  <_DOMINIC_>but you couldn't add that to scuttlebutt without breaking other features.
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17:11:32  <_DOMINIC_>Raynos, I think we can do an insert stream type thing that is as simple as having properties like __delete:true, __sort: string...
17:11:57  <_DOMINIC_>... which is simple enough to use directly from all sorts of things.
17:13:37  <_DOMINIC_>hmm, or prehaps a good way would be to pass in customizations on how to check if the event means delete, or it's moved.
17:13:59  <_DOMINIC_>that way it could easily be adapted to crdt or whatever.
17:14:44  <_DOMINIC_>also, sometimes you might want to change the sorting order without changing the objects...
17:15:05  <_DOMINIC_>(just changing the order in th UI+
17:15:06  <_DOMINIC_>)
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17:32:11  <_DOMINIC_>Raynos, what do you think of this https://npmjs.org/package/h
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18:22:04  <_DOMINIC_>Raynos, I think crdt.Set can be simplified if Set.on('changes', row) when row is being removed by that change.
18:22:27  <_DOMINIC_>and you do set.contains(row) === false to check if the row has been removed.
18:23:00  <_DOMINIC_>then there is only one event if you are trying to display the objects.
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23:35:29  <Raynos>_DOMINIC_: I find github repos more readable
23:36:35  <Raynos>_DOMINIC_: I actually don't use Set.on('changes', row). I use the add events then bind change listeners to every single row
23:41:17  <substack>going to go sit by a temple and write some more stream handbook sections
23:43:38  <Raynos>:)
23:48:48  <substack>then I'll take the maglev train at 400 km/h to the airport
23:54:54  <jesusabdullah>substack: playing with bart api
23:55:27  <jesusabdullah>substack: I just need to choose a sane way to handle xml. Any preferences on your part? (I was inspired by the PittsburgBayPt twitter account)
23:58:21  <jesusabdullah>ooh, I know, I'll use sax and this xpath thinger for it
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23:58:25  <jesusabdullah>sounds good to me!