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00:05:51  <isaacs>SubStack: yeah, the past is a highly renewable resource
00:06:02  <isaacs>now the future... that's always running out
00:06:09  <isaacs>and once you pick one, you can't chagne it
00:06:17  <isaacs>unlike the past, which you can remember however you please.
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01:31:04  <jesusabdullah>can your burn the past for energy
01:31:43  <SubStack>isn't that what the modern world already does?
01:31:55  <SubStack>petroleum is basically liquified past
01:32:01  <jesusabdullah>naw, naw, that's a *byproduct* of the past
01:32:05  <jesusabdullah>.....right?
01:32:29  <jesusabdullah>SubStack: finding something for you, one sec
01:32:30  <SubStack>maybe we could start burning ancient books and works of art in giant incinerators instead
01:32:41  <SubStack>that's closer
01:33:12  <SubStack>society could do that and be powerless to stop doing it
01:33:31  <SubStack>while being incapable of providing any justification whatsoever for the practice
01:33:56  <SubStack>it wouldn't even be out of the ordinary
01:34:23  <jesusabdullah>http://www.viruscomix.com/page505.html
01:34:25  <jesusabdullah>SubStack: ^^
01:34:28  <jesusabdullah>It's about oil
01:34:33  <jesusabdullah>and TIME
01:35:50  <jesusabdullah>it's wall-of-text but well-written wall-of-text so it kinda works
01:50:33  <maxogden>SubStack: so i wanna propose a crazy talk for node dublin
01:50:51  <maxogden>SubStack: somethign that requires weird research
01:51:34  <SubStack>I am fully of crazy ideas such as you request!
01:51:43  <maxogden>SubStack: splendid
01:51:55  <SubStack>isaacs: so I'm thinking that older module systems are very much akin to the ideas around structuralism
01:52:12  <SubStack>everything needs to fit in with this deeply interrelated ecosystem of classes and inheritence modeling
01:52:37  <SubStack>but node/npm are all "fuck this" and provide a very minimalist platform for reuse
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01:54:27  <maxogden>"nodejs hipster phenomenom explained" = talk title
01:54:31  <SubStack>and then npm modules tend towards nihilism and postmodernism
01:54:48  <SubStack>many of which I am personally guilty of writing
01:55:47  <SubStack>I like that npm is simultaneously a thing that people use for serious business and a theatre of the absurd
01:56:13  <maxogden>hehe
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02:02:40  <Raynos>SubStack: im debugging it and finding the root cause. It's mainly to do with invoking an IE host object without the correct this value
02:07:23  <SubStack>host object?
02:07:37  <SubStack>oh right those setTimeoutey things
02:07:40  <SubStack>builtinery
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02:16:34  <Raynos>SubStack: var clear = clearTimeout.bind(null, timer)
02:16:45  <Raynos>I found it
02:16:50  <Raynos>I will now ritually kill it
02:17:34  <SubStack>keeeeeel eeeeet
02:17:46  <SubStack>sacrifice it on an altar with incantations
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02:25:10  <SubStack>maxogden: oh I have a great idea you can have otherwise I'll use it
02:25:33  <SubStack>boltzmann brains, poincaré recurrences, and npm modules
02:25:42  <SubStack>isaacs: ^^^
02:26:16  <SubStack>basically riffing on the idea that all modules are just very large integers that can and will be generated by any random process given enough time
02:26:27  <SubStack>every npm module exists in the digits of pi for instance
02:26:32  <SubStack>at various offsets
02:26:43  <SubStack>number-script touches on this idea
02:27:03  <SubStack>interpreting npm as a curated sequence of very large integers
02:27:17  <SubStack>or usually as a set not a sequence
02:27:22  <SubStack>but the modules are well-ordered
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03:08:12  <AvianFlu>SubStack, that's quite a bit like the "several monkeys with several typewriters will eventually produce hamlet" principle
03:08:33  <AvianFlu>I was once in a play based on that principle� quite the principle, that.
03:09:46  <SubStack>the play was written by monkeys at typewriters? aren't they all?
03:20:17  <AvianFlu>the play was about three monkeys named milton, swift, and kafka
03:20:27  <AvianFlu>who were given typewriters and told to write hamlet
03:20:31  <AvianFlu>but didn't know what hamlet was
03:20:46  <AvianFlu>I wish I could remember the name of the author, it was pretty hilarious
03:36:52  <Raynos>SubStack: with dnode could I do something like `remote.getTab("foo", function (stream) { otherStream.pipe(stream) })`
03:40:40  <SubStack>no streams and piping depend on stuff happening on the same tick
03:40:57  <SubStack>you'd need to bake an abstraction to make it work given the async latency
03:45:52  <guybrush>lol Raynos i thought about exactly the same thing about an hour ago :D
03:46:37  <SubStack>you could write a dpipe() function to handle the buffering
03:46:51  <guybrush>it would be like using dnode to split/merge/control streams
03:47:07  <SubStack>but yeah I would just use mux-demux for that probs
03:47:11  <guybrush>right
03:47:31  <SubStack>a dnode layer that integrates with mux-demux would be useful
03:47:39  <guybrush>so you serve multiple streams where each one has maybe a dnode on it
03:48:09  <SubStack>well there's at least one dnode but then the dnode can open stream channels on the underlying transport
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04:22:29  <Raynos>its mainly about using dnode
04:22:35  <Raynos>to ask a remote server to give me a custom stream object
04:22:40  <Raynos> which I can then pipe my stream into
04:22:52  <Raynos>the custom stream object would be generated using event-stream and contain specific logic
04:26:52  <guybrush>how about just "subscribing" to events and writing it in to a stream manually?
04:27:48  <guybrush>like remote.subscribeToSomeStream(myStream.write)
04:28:44  <guybrush>subscribeToSomeStream = function(emit){myStream.on('data',emit)}
04:30:13  <guybrush>with some buffer-layer above
04:50:31  <Raynos>SubStack: https://github.com/Raynos/routil/commit/f6b2b285f709b0b30e021e5572b7f6cae7f216f0
04:50:38  <Raynos>Another kitchen sink dies \o/
04:50:46  <Raynos>another set of sweet individual modules are birthed
04:51:08  <Raynos>> Showing 380 changed files with 10 additions and 87,436 deletions.
04:57:07  <Raynos>guybrush: I was thinking of this ui component on the server which has n tabs. I wanted to say "give me tab X and let me pipe this stream of data into it" It works both ways
04:57:23  <Raynos>imagine the server saying "client give me ui component Y and let me stream data into it"
04:57:35  <guybrush>very nice idea
04:57:47  <Raynos>oh course alternatively
04:58:04  <guybrush>and basically you can stream everything
04:58:08  <Raynos>it could be "client here is the stream for compent Y you deal with hooking it up"
04:58:10  <guybrush>like assets?
04:58:17  <Raynos>yeah pretty much
04:58:29  <guybrush>this makes me think of (fab)
04:58:37  <Raynos>"client give me your css stream and let me stream your css into it" or "client here is a css stream, you handle it"
04:58:50  <Raynos>i basically just want to send stream objects as dnode parameters and have shit work
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05:00:57  <guybrush>well maybe it is better to have multiple dnode-streams and mux/demux em http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Telephony_multiplexer_system.gif
05:01:47  <guybrush>what you want to do is use dnode for mux/demus
05:01:56  <guybrush>right?
05:03:13  <guybrush>i thought about implementing nsstream, which just like nssocket serializes namespaced events and the payload into an array
05:03:56  <guybrush>but somehow this can be done with dnode anyway
05:04:11  <guybrush>so im not sure if its worth the effort :D
05:04:37  <guybrush>remote.on('*::foo::**',emit) is just simple
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06:46:11  <Raynos>guybrush: I guess I want to use it for mux/demus because I forgot it doesnt make sense to pass multiple streams to the browser
06:46:25  <Raynos>the fact that mux/demus is used internally to allow me to pass streams over dnode to browsers is an implementation detail
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08:18:02  <SubStack>woot!
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09:22:57  <chapel>guybrush: there is mux-demux by dominictar
09:25:55  <SubStack>woot I have the new connection logic using shoe for the new browserling
09:26:15  <SubStack>and a queue system that isn't completely silly and bug-ridden
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16:52:43  <isaacs>SubStack: on the subject of structuralism, did you see this? https://github.com/isaacs/npm/issues/798#issuecomment-7073116
16:52:56  <isaacs>(spoiler alert: no, we will not have enforced namespacing in npm, ever)
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17:14:31  <guybrush>using multiple registries could be used then you have namespaces anyway :D
17:15:03  <guybrush>also url-dependencies ftw
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18:53:07  <Raynos>SubStack: does schoolbus require any server-side changes or can I just drop it in?
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19:20:19  <Raynos>isaacs: modules break due to npm magic.
19:20:37  <Raynos>For example https://github.com/Raynos/testling/blob/master/package.json#L25
19:20:46  <Raynos>that breaks when I install schoolbus & testling
19:20:55  <Raynos>and then node_modules/schoolbus doesnt exist in testling
19:21:23  <Raynos>isaacs: I think it would make sense to at least do a symlink in node_modules/testling/node_modules/schoolbus and point it at node_modules/schoolbus
19:21:44  <isaacs>Raynos: you should not ever reference "node_modules" directly, unless you bundle deps and know that it'll be there.
19:21:55  <Raynos>isaacs: then what should I do instead ?
19:22:10  <Raynos>i guess check them into git
19:22:17  <Raynos>yeah I can do that
19:23:09  <isaacs>Raynos: or write a script that require()s it, or run the exposed script from the command line (it'll be guaranteed to be in the PATH)
19:23:40  <Raynos>isaacs: I need to browserify the raw file so requiring it isn't useful.
19:38:19  <Raynos>isaacs: I checked in the file and it still complains :(
19:38:54  <Raynos>it there a special flag I need to set so that npm gets the node_modules folder
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19:54:31  <isaacs>Raynos: "bundleDependencies":["schoolbus"]
19:54:36  <isaacs>Raynos: in package.json
19:56:59  <Raynos>isaacs: thanks
19:58:15  <Raynos>when I point npm at a git:// url sometimes it does and sometimes it doesnt update accordingly
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20:02:58  <Raynos>isaacs: It just ignoreds bundledDependencies :/
20:03:57  <isaacs>Raynos: sorry, i'm kind of out of it. can you post an issue with steps to reproduce?
20:04:06  * isaacsis sick
20:04:16  <Raynos>isaacs: :( I hope your health gets better
20:04:35  <isaacs>i'm sure i'll be fine soon
20:04:38  <Raynos>isaacs: I'm currently ignoring the issue because its a bug in substacks code not mine. But thanks
20:04:41  <isaacs>just a little cold cough thing
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20:22:02  <Raynos>substack: > Array of package names that will be bundled when publishing the package.
20:22:10  <Raynos>I dont publish the package since im fetching it over git
20:22:21  <Raynos>isaacs: I mean isaacs. does the lack of publishing cause issues?
20:22:44  <isaacs>Raynos: not sure
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21:31:48  <Raynos>SubSatck: does schoolbus work cross domain?
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21:34:58  <Raynos>whats the easiest way to reinstall npm and nuke all of its caching
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21:37:55  <isaacs>Raynos: rm -rf $(npm get cache); npm rm npm -g
21:38:05  <isaacs>Raynos: or just `make uninstall` in the npm folder
21:38:30  <isaacs>Raynos: npm help removing-npm
21:38:31  <isaacs>http://npmjs.org/doc/removing-npm.html
21:39:40  <Raynos>oh dear
21:41:30  <Raynos>i tried reproducing my bug in /tmp/ and its not there
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22:14:48  <Raynos>isaacs: https://github.com/isaacs/npm/issues/2639
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23:46:55  <SubStack>:D
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