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01:06:53  <Raynos>SubStack: What is considered the "wtf, dont show up at my house this late" time?
01:07:56  <dools>depends on if they have kids
01:08:04  <dools>if they have kids: 5pm
01:08:27  <dools>if not, more like 9pm
01:09:05  <Raynos>why would they have kids o.o
01:09:33  <dools>oh i just thought you meant, in general
01:09:49  <Raynos>No I meant specifically what time would substack be annoyed if I showed up at his house
01:09:57  <Raynos>but ill show up in the immediate future any way
01:10:19  <Raynos>jesusabdullah: is he or you home around 7-8ish ?
01:13:11  <jesusabdullah>I'll be around
01:15:10  <isaacs>jesusabdullah: I think part of the issue is that node is maturing faster than people
01:15:14  <isaacs>thought it would.
01:15:16  <isaacs>jesusabdullah: ^ this.
01:15:16  <isaacs>yes.
01:15:18  <isaacs>totally.
01:17:26  <jesusabdullah>isaacs: Yeah, that's definitely the feel I got.
01:17:42  <jesusabdullah>isaacs: Nobody expected to show up at 0.8 with a bunch of high profile companies using it in prod
01:17:49  <jesusabdullah>why? Who knows. But we didn't.
01:17:53  <isaacs>well, actually, show up in 0.6
01:17:54  <jesusabdullah>mesofacts, maybe.
01:18:01  <jesusabdullah>oh yeah, well even 0.6
01:18:09  <isaacs>and then have them bitch about 0.8 being not 100% API-compatible
01:18:24  <jesusabdullah>yeah, I just read this thing earlier today about facts that change slowly enough that people still say the old fact even though it's no longer true
01:18:31  <isaacs>child_process i can justify. cluster was experimental. but "sys"? no one can justify that.
01:18:36  <isaacs>i feel like an ass even trying to explain it
01:18:46  <jesusabdullah>like saying, "portland's the place to be" even though it's had a shitty economy, etc., for years now
01:18:58  <Raynos>whos bitching about 0.8?
01:19:06  <Raynos>I've upgraded from 0.4 to 0.8 this week on a large app
01:19:09  <Raynos>the upgrade was trivial
01:19:17  <isaacs>Raynos: well, by and large, it's been pretty mild.
01:19:21  <isaacs>but the sys/util thing is just dumb.
01:19:24  <isaacs>(and already fixed)
01:19:25  <Raynos>actually deploying the damned thing on a blank smartos was the pain in the ass
01:22:00  * tilgovijoined
01:22:03  <Raynos>isaacs: ._.
01:22:04  <Raynos>wut
01:22:14  <Raynos>0.8.1 not going to throw on sys :\
01:22:30  <isaacs>Raynos: yeah
01:22:32  <jesusabdullah>Does it still show a deprecation warning isaacs
01:22:38  <isaacs>i know, that was probably like 99% of your upgrade process, huh?
01:22:39  <isaacs>sorry.
01:22:41  <jesusabdullah>or is it like, "whatever, sys, util"
01:22:50  <isaacs>jesusabdullah: module.exports = require('util');
01:22:52  <isaacs>whatever.
01:23:01  <jesusabdullah>WELL THAT WAS EASY
01:23:03  <jesusabdullah>haha
01:23:10  <jesusabdullah>NO JOKE LOUDBIZZLE
01:25:12  <Raynos>isaacs: http://ejohn.org/blog/jquery-16-and-attr/
01:25:44  <Raynos>this reminds me of "jquery improves API. people bitch and whine. jQuery has no balls and reverts the backwards incomptabile improvements"
01:25:51  <jesusabdullah>hooray, node-static won't throw anymore!
01:25:58  <Raynos>isaacs: I have run into zero issues with sys
01:26:01  <jesusabdullah>lulz
01:26:19  <Raynos>isaacs: I have run into zero issues with sys. Most of my issues were with the upgrading package.json and engines field
01:26:22  <jesusabdullah>Raynos: on the flipside, is that reason to rain on othe peoples' parades?
01:26:57  <jesusabdullah>Most of ours were probably due to fs.exists, actually
01:27:22  <Raynos>You have a point
01:27:47  <isaacs>jesusabdullah: fs.exists can die in a fucking fire.
01:27:56  <isaacs>i'm gonna move it to sys.exists in 0.9, watch me
01:28:04  <jesusabdullah>ololo
01:28:10  <jesusabdullah>Why the hate on exists?
01:28:10  <isaacs>and net.existsSync
01:28:17  <jesusabdullah>rofl
01:28:24  <isaacs>jesusabdullah: because it's retarded. it doesn't tell you whether something exists.
01:28:34  <jesusabdullah>Isn't exists just a thin wrapper around path.resolve and stat?
01:28:55  <isaacs>jesusabdullah: yes.
01:29:05  <isaacs>jesusabdullah: but! it doesn't test the error code!
01:29:14  <isaacs>you could get EACCES!e
01:29:22  <Raynos>exists is horrible
01:29:24  <isaacs>and then it'll be like, "Nope. Nothing there."
01:29:25  <Raynos>it swallows errors
01:29:41  <jesusabdullah>ohh
01:29:42  <isaacs>any error other than ENOENT should return false (or better yet, return the error!!)
01:29:42  <Raynos>anything that swallows errors can die in a ffire
01:29:49  <jesusabdullah>So why not just fix it?
01:29:57  <isaacs>jesusabdullah: because that would break programs.
01:29:58  <jesusabdullah>well
01:30:01  <jesusabdullah>yeah, I guess so!
01:30:14  <isaacs>jesusabdullah: i mean, honestly, like, the path.exists will probably never go away,either
01:30:42  <jesusabdullah>yeah
01:30:49  <jesusabdullah>I mean, if you're going to be consistent
01:30:54  <jesusabdullah>I'll keep that in mind with exists
01:30:54  <isaacs>oh, and 0.8 can be run with --no-deprecation
01:31:04  <jesusabdullah>interesting :)
01:31:12  <isaacs>jesusabdullah: posix 101: don't ask permission. just do it, and deal with failure.
01:31:17  <isaacs>permission is a race condition
01:31:22  <jesusabdullah>lulz
01:32:34  <Raynos></3
01:32:52  <Raynos>I liked the lean style of node
01:33:03  <Raynos>I was kind of hoping other shit thats useless goes away as well like res.writeHead
01:33:07  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: Encoders down:
01:34:01  <jesusabdullah>what do you do instead of writeHead?
01:34:03  <jesusabdullah>I don't remember
01:34:13  <jesusabdullah>fs.setHeader and setStatus?
01:35:06  <Raynos>yeah
01:35:07  <Raynos>setHeader
01:35:09  <Raynos>and res.statusCode
01:35:12  <Raynos>res.setHeader
01:35:19  <Raynos>res.setHeader(...) and res.statusCode = n
01:36:30  <Raynos>isaacs: Having actually read the mailing list thread and the issue, this is actually a reasonable choice to make.
01:37:00  <jesusabdullah>right statusCode
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01:43:17  <isaacs>Raynos: thanks
01:50:07  <jesusabdullah>lulz
01:50:14  <AvianFlu>dominictarrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
01:50:17  <jesusabdullah>isaacs: You're makin' a lotta fanbois upset
01:50:21  <jesusabdullah>XD
01:50:48  <jesusabdullah>what with your relaxed standards and all ;)
01:51:06  <jesusabdullah>I'm kinda hoping people see these changes in policy as meaning that node is going to get next to no new features in core
01:51:09  <jesusabdullah>:)
01:51:18  <jesusabdullah>or, that people should strive to support this
01:51:29  <jesusabdullah>since they can then set their own damned release schedules/policies
01:51:51  <chapel>idk, the people that care about sys not being deprecated are the people that really don't care about policy
01:52:12  <isaacs>chapel: well, it's about sending a message.
01:52:16  <chapel>sure
01:52:34  <chapel>but send a message that impact is more important than principle
01:52:47  <dominictarr>AvianFlu, hey whats up
01:52:57  <chapel>not deprecating sys has little to no impact
01:53:13  <chapel>but doing so, well seemed to be an issue
01:53:24  <chapel>sadly the people that complain the most and loudest get heard the best
01:53:43  <AvianFlu>cold summer in SF like usual
01:54:02  <dominictarr>what it shows is that there is great acceptance of breaking changes in the community
01:54:09  <dominictarr>which is really good.
01:54:38  <dominictarr>but isaacs makes a very good point to break well, where it is important.
01:54:52  <isaacs>chapel: exactly
01:54:54  <dominictarr>AvianFlu, haha, it's really hot here in cambodia
01:54:55  <chapel>I think sys should be deprecated, but I don't think its that big of a deal, I think we should pick a side and stick with it, thats all
01:55:33  <chapel>I know if something is broken, or a security issue, and it has to go and breaks shit, isaacs and node will deal with it
01:55:45  <dominictarr>this is a classic bikeshed.
01:55:59  <dominictarr>sys isn't that important.
01:56:10  <chapel>thats my thought
01:56:21  <chapel>I want it gone, but not worth arguing over
01:56:46  <dominictarr>but can't you just ignore it?
01:56:51  <isaacs>chapel: well, i wish it had been just deleted when it was easy to do so
01:57:12  <chapel>isaacs: too early trying to be 'legit' or like the old guys
01:57:34  <chapel>dominictarr: yes its completely ignorable at this point
01:57:50  <chapel>what should have happened
01:58:06  <chapel>sys should have been removed or switched to something else when it was deprecated
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02:01:06  <chapel>isaacs: I think you made the right choice
02:01:42  <isaacs>chapel: thanks
02:01:43  <chapel>those against un-deprecating it have nothing to lose or gain, just principle
02:02:04  <isaacs>it's like the farengi say: principles and an empty sack are worth a sack.
02:02:05  <chapel>those that wanted it, had a lot of pain and issues for their own doing
02:02:27  <isaacs>the underlying issue is a fear that this means decisiveness is fading.
02:02:28  <chapel>but it was because it was left for too long, and if you don't remove it, people will use it
02:02:56  <isaacs>like, child_process exit/close event names. that was absolutely a change that had to be made.
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02:20:37  <ryanseddon>SUBSTACK: sweet just saw the visit stuff, created an issue will try and ship this weekend https://github.com/ryanseddon/bunyip/issues/6
02:30:53  <dominictarr>isaacs, now what you should have done, is when sys was required, hash the name of the parent module, and throw only on a proportion of requires.
02:31:26  <dominictarr>then, increase that proportion with successive patch releases until sys always throws
02:31:45  <isaacs>dominictarr: because that is way less maintenance overhead than "do nothing"?
02:31:51  <isaacs>lol
02:32:05  <dominictarr>this will mean that people will only have to fix a few instances at a time
02:32:15  <dominictarr>and won't be as bothered to complain
02:32:29  <isaacs>or maybe just have it do while (!(Date.now() % 10000)); module.exports = require('util')
02:32:40  <isaacs>er, remove the !
02:32:51  <isaacs>so it waits between 0 and 10 seconds every time you do it
02:32:56  <isaacs>then graduallyincrease the number
02:33:03  <isaacs>fail fast? why the hurry?
02:33:32  <chapel>why didn't it give line numbers and file names before when it warned?
02:33:36  <chapel>that was always annoying
02:33:44  <dominictarr>the problem with that approach is that it's not deterministic, and people will just run the program again
02:33:46  <chapel>I mean, Id at least like to know where it was
02:33:52  <dominictarr>and it will work that time.
02:34:02  <dominictarr>with hashes it's reproducable
02:34:26  <isaacs>chapel: that's another thing
02:34:37  <isaacs>chapel: in 0.8, you can do --trace-deprecation
02:34:45  <isaacs>chapel: and then any deprecated APIs will give you a stack trace
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02:37:43  <chapel>but that would have probably helped people get rid of it earlier
02:37:59  <chapel>believe me, we have the warning on 0.6
02:38:04  <chapel>for something we don't control
02:38:07  <isaacs>right
02:38:10  <chapel>and its annoying as shit
02:38:18  <chapel>but its also not easy to grep, Ive tried
02:38:20  <isaacs>so youjust pipe that shit through a |grep -v or something
02:38:27  <isaacs>chapel: it's easier to grep it OUT of your logs
02:38:27  <chapel>since the module didn't require straight up
02:39:06  <chapel>anyways
02:39:10  <chapel>not a huge deal
02:39:18  <chapel>but just a thought for future deprecating
02:41:31  <isaacs>yep
02:41:37  <isaacs>that's why we added those flags.
02:41:45  <isaacs>becuase either you don't care enough to fix it, or you do
02:42:01  <chapel>yeah
02:42:03  <chapel>:)
02:42:04  <isaacs>but either way, you need something different than what you were getting
02:42:13  <chapel>two courses of action
02:42:18  <chapel>ryah should have cut it out early
02:42:24  <chapel>or do what you are doing now
02:42:28  <chapel>imo
02:43:07  <chapel>if we are dynamic and proactive, we can prevent stagnation, as well as scorched earth changes
02:43:22  <chapel>e.g. not be js :P or python
02:43:53  <chapel>but what do I know, haha, nothing really
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03:15:00  <st_luke>sys: http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF020-Skub.gif
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03:25:51  <dominictarr>substack, turns out there are plenty of people who fall for the card-scam
03:25:52  <dominictarr>http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/2012042555765/National-news/blackjack-scam-a-bust-for-tourists.html
03:26:22  <dominictarr>I made a good decision to not carry my credit card with me, unless I am specifically going to get cash out.
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03:28:11  <dools>hahaha "After being asked to stump up money for the game, the tourist inevitably loses the hand and is taken to a nearby Western Union, where they are made to withdraw funds under threat of violence. "
03:28:19  <dools>why the elaborate scam?
03:28:27  <dools>just take someone to a western union and threaten them with violence
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04:02:06  <dominictarr>dools, good question.
04:02:20  <dominictarr>that is just the story in the paper.
04:02:25  <dominictarr>it's not really like that.
04:03:38  <dominictarr>necessarily
04:09:24  <dominictarr>catch you dudes later!
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06:09:58  <dominictarr>hey
06:11:07  * ryan_stevensjoined
06:12:03  <dominictarr>in a job interview, and just discovered a core part of their stack is php
06:12:13  <dools>yesss
06:12:15  <dominictarr>LOUDBOT BE WITTY
06:12:22  <dominictarr>MORE WITTY
06:12:31  <dominictarr>NOT IMPRESSED, LOUDBOT
06:12:36  <dools>you're in a job interview in cambodia?
06:12:48  <dominictarr>nah, canada
06:12:50  <dools>is it the guy with the razors or the phillipino criminal extorsionits?
06:12:56  <dools>ah right
06:12:58  <dominictarr>though the wonders of the internet
06:16:08  <dominictarr>needless to say, it was not the first sign I shouldn't be interested. it was more like the period at the end of the sentence.
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07:06:15  <isaacs>dominictarr: you know what's hilarious and frustrating about stuff like that sys/util thing?
07:07:15  <isaacs>people see that, and they see like 5 people complaining about how un-node that is, and they see me and bcantrill going, "Yeah, but, ya know, reality and stuff"
07:07:50  <isaacs>but they don't see all the people that actually were affected by it, and complained about it privately.
07:08:29  <isaacs>so it seems like "the community" is for some reason strongly against 'require("sys")' not throwing
07:08:43  <chapel>isaacs: thats why people should complain in the open :P
07:08:50  <isaacs>chapel: yeah, some have.
07:09:08  <isaacs>chapel: sannis wrote a module that put sys back.
07:09:17  <chapel>heh
07:09:20  <isaacs>chapel: the jitsu guys wrote a bot to send pull reqs.
07:09:29  <chapel>yeah
07:09:30  <chapel>I saw
07:09:34  <isaacs>chapel: which, actually, i'd *really* like to get on the whole wscript/node-gyp thing
07:09:39  <chapel>old geeklist repo got a pr from it
07:09:45  <chapel>get on it how?
07:09:51  <isaacs>even if it just made a list of which node programs still have wscripts in them, and let people send PRs
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07:11:08  <chapel>ah
07:11:10  <isaacs>oh! and we could have deprecation notices, instead of posting a random "Blerg is depreblerged and will blerg soon", it could post the url of a github issue about it.
07:11:11  <chapel>hmm
07:11:18  <chapel>yeah
07:11:21  <chapel>that would be nice
07:11:31  <chapel>you could have npm warn about stuff like that
07:11:37  <chapel>when publishing
07:11:50  <isaacs>yeah, actually, npm should warn about wscript publishing now
07:11:57  <isaacs>that wouldn't be too hard to do
07:12:20  <isaacs>it shouldn't warn unless it's right in the root of the package you're publishing, though. not for bundled deps or other things
07:16:20  <chapel>yeah
07:16:23  <chapel>only for the publisher
07:16:32  <chapel>or yeah, just if you run npm
07:16:35  <chapel>a general warning
07:16:40  <chapel>since people run npm often
07:27:05  <isaacs>people tend not to report things publicly, though
07:27:24  <isaacs>when i had my email in the npm error message, that was kind of awesome.
07:27:37  <isaacs>you get really good quality feedback when you do that
07:27:42  <isaacs>just WAY too much feedback, is all
07:27:59  <chapel>yeah
07:28:20  <chapel>people that complain tend to be overly vocal
07:28:33  <chapel>at least publicly
07:28:37  <chapel>not always constructive
07:28:49  <isaacs>yeah
07:28:51  <chapel>I like it when people give ideas and constructive feedback
07:28:53  <isaacs>and then it turns into democracy
07:28:59  <chapel>twitter is really bad about it
07:29:01  <isaacs>N voices vs M voices
07:29:08  <chapel>and github comments can be particularly nasty
07:29:17  <isaacs>they usually start out kinda ok
07:29:20  <chapel>yeah
07:29:24  <isaacs>but yeah, it's easy to go off the deep end
07:29:32  <chapel>its not specific to gh/twitter
07:29:38  <chapel>just happens to be where you see most of it
07:29:40  <isaacs>it's specific to humans, mostly
07:29:42  <isaacs>:)
07:31:20  <chapel>heh yeah
07:31:29  <chapel>we geeks/nerds are particularly bad at times
07:32:25  <chapel>its funny, we consider ourselves smarter than most (well it seems most devs do to some degree) but some times the religious like wars that rage over mundane stupid things border on tea party fanaticism
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07:40:54  <Guest84380>I'm using browserling.com and I've uploaded the wrong SSH public key. I can't find a place to change it? Is this something you can reset for me?
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08:08:10  <chapel>great comment isaacs
08:08:27  <chapel>put it in perspective that makes sense that most people aren't seeing
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09:57:36  <tanepiper>dominictarr: does sockjs support socket.binaryType = 'blob' stuff?
09:58:30  <jesusabdullah>isaacs: Why finally instead of a catch in https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/lib/fs.js#L184-191 ?
09:58:47  <rowbit>Hourly usage stats: []
10:01:30  <jesusabdullah>isaacs: Also line 205--why is that being declared inside the while when it's already been defined further up?
10:03:19  <jesusabdullah>ohhhhh
10:03:23  <jesusabdullah>they don't catch the error
10:03:45  <jesusabdullah>they react to it without actually catching the error
10:09:54  <jesusabdullah>https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/lib/fs.js#L280-284 Interesting detail
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10:17:54  <dominictarr>tanepiper, I don't know.
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10:39:31  <tanepiper>ahh bahh, he left
10:41:56  <tanepiper>oh where has sockjs gone?
10:42:15  <tanepiper>oh it has it's own user on githib now
10:45:34  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: Encoders down:
10:45:37  <tanepiper>(or has it always?)
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11:22:55  <tanepiper>paul_irish: https://github.com/organizations/WebComponents <-- Encouraging reuseable Web Components!
11:30:04  <tanepiper>http://webcomponents.github.com/ (in about 10 minutes)
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13:18:55  <tanepiper>substack: I may have created ANARCHY!
13:26:25  <substack>oh?
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13:32:46  <tanepiper>http://webcomponents.github.com/
13:32:59  <tanepiper>ANARCHY!
13:35:26  <tanepiper>it'll be an interesting social experiement :)
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14:55:18  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) browserling@... successfully signed up for developer browserling plan ($20). Cash money! /!\
14:55:18  <rowbit>/!\ ATTENTION: (default-local) paid account successfully upgraded /!\
14:55:52  <Raynos>substack: boop
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14:59:38  <substack>woot!
14:59:41  <substack>Raynos: ahoy thar
15:00:13  <substack>damnit I was watching sliders eps on youtube all morning
15:00:28  <substack>instead of doing important things that need to be done
15:00:35  <substack>like drawing pictures of mutants and mushroom clouds
15:05:20  <tanepiper>lol
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15:08:41  <niftylettuce>isaacs: hey any idea why `screen -DRR screen supervisor ~/Public/project/server.js` is trying to monitor tons of files (e.g. pipes out errors like `Error reading path: ~/somepath` 50000x times)
15:10:03  <niftylettuce>im thinking its because supervisor is looking at the directory where it was executed at, not root folder of the server.js
15:10:10  <yhuang>hey , just wanna let you know. Our company is consider using testling for our corporate tests
15:10:17  <yhuang>we're a big company
15:10:23  <yhuang>and thanks alot for the help here yesterday
15:10:23  <niftylettuce>yhuang: what company?
15:10:30  <yhuang>Fastcompany.com
15:10:54  <yhuang>I herd from one of the developers that you guys are doing a big update?
15:10:57  <yhuang>heard*
15:11:34  <niftylettuce>fastcompany gr8 magazine :) read many, many issues
15:18:30  <Raynos>substack: I cannot operate your bathroom window.
15:28:00  <substack>yhuang: sweet!
15:28:16  <substack>yhuang: yep we are in the middle of improving a lot of stuff for testling right now
15:28:48  <substack>including a local build that lets you run your tests on your own local system or on our browsers
15:32:07  <yhuang>Awesome
15:32:14  <yhuang>I have a question about t.plan(n)
15:32:26  <yhuang>can you explain to me what it means?
15:33:00  <yhuang>if I want to test multiple things on the page, say 5 things, I can use t.plan(5) to run the test to test all 5 of these things
15:33:08  <yhuang>and if any of them failed, the test results in failure?
15:33:20  <yhuang>is this correct?
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15:49:31  <substack>t.plan() lets you specify how many tests are supposed to happen
15:49:48  <substack>this is useful for asynchronous tests where sometimes callbacks don't fire or they fire too many times
15:50:52  <substack>the test api will hit feature-parity with node-tap soon too
15:51:16  <substack>https://github.com/isaacs/node-tap
15:51:37  <substack>the new local testling program actually uses the node-tap library directly
15:51:46  <substack>and just extends it with t.log() and t.createWindow()
15:51:56  <substack>isaacs has mentioned being open for tap to get t.log() itself
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16:31:40  <Dspriggs>I just signed up for browserling. Does anyone have a sugestion for a good windows 7 ssh software and how to create a public key?
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16:35:44  <substack>Dspriggs: you can use plink on windows
16:36:32  <substack>it takes mostly the same arguments as `ssh` so you should be able to make a direct substitution for the ssh command that browserling shows for tunnels
16:36:44  <substack>and then you can use putty-gen to make the ssh keypair
16:36:58  <substack>http://theillustratednetwork.mvps.org/Ssh/Private-publicKey.html
16:38:02  <Dspriggs>substack: thanks! I will give it a try!
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16:40:11  <wiwillia2>Dspriggs Putty also makes it easy
16:57:33  <substack>damn it's only 10am
16:57:49  <substack>so this is what normal people who wake up early must feel like
16:58:15  <substack>going downtown to draw some apocalypse art
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18:16:52  <yhuang>will we be able to get a updated documentation page after release? and how long do you think the update is gonna take?
18:21:09  <pkrumins>yeah, we'll have the docs updated
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18:23:17  <pkrumins>it looks like it's one bug in t.createWindow
18:23:43  <pkrumins>so it shouldnt take too long. should be done around july 5
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18:46:23  <yhuang>Can i use JQuery within testling JS file?
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19:03:14  <pkrumins>yhuang: we have jquery already in testling, but you can also use other versions. you'd have to browserify it though like this https://github.com/jmars/jquery-browserify
19:04:25  <yhuang>ooo that's great. thanks!
19:06:53  <pkrumins>the 2nd argument to t.createWindow function is jquery $
19:07:28  <pkrumins>to callback i mean
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20:02:12  <substack>yhuang: the t.createWindow() stuff just uses this library: http://github.com/substack/schoolbus
20:02:29  <substack>it just returns the bus object
20:02:42  <substack>our proxy is just screwed up for some reason is the only thing
20:03:00  <substack>but I've got to finish some other things this week first
20:03:29  <yhuang>yeah, i just wanted to see if I can perform some test scripts. looks like i'll just wait now
20:08:44  <substack>one sec and I'll have the testling module up on npm for you to play around with!
20:08:53  <substack>if you have node and npm handy that is
20:09:08  <yhuang>oh we don't atm
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21:16:05  <tanepiper>substack: fancy drawing a logo for the Web Component Organisation? :D http://webcomponents.github.com/ if not cool, but if you do I owe you one :)
21:16:10  <tanepiper>I don't want something boring :)
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21:55:42  <chapel>nice tanepiper
21:58:28  <tanepiper>i;ve already spoken to someone at mozilla, they are writing the xtag polyfill
21:58:35  <tanepiper>we're going to try get this moving fast
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21:59:04  <tanepiper>tags shouldn't be in standards hell, everyone should just fucking build it, then itterate
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22:09:58  <chapel>yeah
22:10:10  <chapel>tanepiper: you should make a community as well
22:10:16  <chapel>for sharing info about it
22:14:55  <tanepiper>yea, that;s coming :)
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23:22:33  <Raynos>How do you guys do dev / production / test configuration?
23:29:20  <substack>separate config files
23:29:28  <substack>and there isn't too much config usually
23:29:34  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: Developers waiting in the queue for ie7 (Queue length: 1 on 1 servers. Total servers: 3)
23:29:41  <substack>!
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23:29:45  <substack>pesky routing bug
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23:30:18  <tanepiper>i;m writing my first tests for tweetifies :) Just using asset just now, and mocha
23:30:23  <tanepiper>but i will use testling :)
23:30:56  <substack>\o/
23:31:10  <substack>speaking of, the local version is nearly ready
23:31:22  <tanepiper>travisci seems down :(
23:34:37  <rowbit>SubStack, pkrumins: Developers waiting in the queue for ie7 (Queue length: 1 on 1 servers. Total servers: 3)
23:35:28  <substack>>_<
23:44:49  <Raynos>substack: seperate config files is `var config = require("config." + process.env.NODE_ENV + ".json")` ?
23:45:41  <substack>that would work although I don't usually do that
23:45:54  <Raynos>substack: remind me to rewrite my composite tests from mocha -> testling using your local version
23:46:03  <substack>I just check a config.json.default into git and don't check config.json in
23:46:34  <Raynos>substack: so config.json is just this file that lives on the server which you manually edit
23:46:48  <substack>I'm not even sure what the best way to do configs is
23:46:56  <substack>except that having too much stuff in config files is really annoying
23:47:43  <substack>Raynos: well another thing I do is with figc we have a config.json and then you can override the options on argv
23:47:52  <substack>http://github.com/substack/node-figc
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23:49:08  <Raynos>substack: agreed that too miuch stuff is annoying, having seaport figure all the hosts & ports out saves so much config
23:49:27  <substack>yep!
23:50:03  <substack>you can also store config data in seaport's meta thing
23:50:32  <substack>we're using that to store which windows desktop encoder servers have which browsers
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23:54:39  <Raynos>i want npm search --whitelist [substack, isaacs, visionmedia, mikeal, ...]
23:54:51  <Raynos>isaacs: feature request \o/
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